Subaru Crew - Future Models II

rsholland

we're looking at a sketch. Sketches, by their very nature (and purpose!) exaggerate proportions for dramatic effect. So don't expect the actual car to be as exciting as the sketch.

The sketch does confirm design themes, and like I said: I like what I see. Now if we could get some actual pixs, and more important—specs and content/feature info!

Bob

subearu

these pics have been out there for a while now: http://thecarconnection.com/index.asp?article=7368

-Brian

alpha01

I posted this elsewhere, but Im so saddened and appalled I feel the need to repeat in hopes that SoA will reconsider:

The name of the SUV is B9X? Is this a joke? This is a very odd and unbecoming name. How did this get past product Marketing? Or anyone who speaks the English language? This vehicle had better be darn exciting, or else the journalists are going to have a field day with the The Subaru Benign-X.

By the time the vehicle debuts, I myself will be in the market. However, if its honestly called B9X, I will not be buying it. As a recent Subaru convert ('rents just purchased a wonderful 05 Legacy Sedan), Im a bit dismayed.

(SoA needs to hop to and get stability control at least optional on more of its vehicles as well, which will be a major consideration come purchase time).

~alpha

Kirstie_H

Bob, nothing's changed - you should still be able to add a discussion. There's an "add discussion" link near the top of the Future Vehicles board. Try using the "browse by message board" feature at the left, then look for the link. If you have trouble, let me know and I can start it - but I'd kinda like to see it started by a member!

rsholland

Done deal! Thanks Kristie. I must have been geezing...

Bob

c_hunter

Time for a nap grandpa?

ateixeira

I read Benign X also.

Harmless Crossover. )

That may just be the concept's name, though. I think SoA will measure reaction before deciding on a final name.

Remember ST-X became Baja.

I'll share thoughts in that thread.

-juice

p0926

I'm puzzled how someone could have THAT negative a reaction to a simple 3-character alpha-numeric name? The Merkur XR4TI was far more of a mouthful! In any case, the name of a vehicle would rate fairly low on my checklist of reasons to buy or not to buy.

-Frank

c_hunter

That's the real name:

http://content.subaru.com/sub/misc/pressreleasedups/20041105-miam- i.html

Craig

rsholland

That may just be the concept's name, though. I think SoA will measure reaction before deciding on a final name.

I doubt it. We're beyond concept. This is the real deal.

Bob

c_hunter

Unless they call it the dung-wagon or something, I could care less about the name.

Craig

locke2c

I dislike the similarity to Saab model names, but otherwise don't really care that much.

~c

ateixeira

Craig - that's their intention now, I'm sure it could change.

X5 is popular, noone calls it "Times Five". MDX and RX are also successful, and RX is a prescription!

Heck, maybe Benign was intentional! LOL

-juice

kens

B9X. Hmmm, yeah, it's kind of unusual, but is it really all THAT bad?

I guess it kind of stands out since other Subaru model in the US uses an actual word.

Well, you never know -- changes will be made until there is no more time to make changes.

Ken

rsholland

no time now to second-guess the name. That's a lock. I'll bet my children on that.

Bob

tsy

but '9' for 9 styling elements is pretty weak. How about a number for the displacement of the engine. That seems more reasonable (other companies do it, MB, BMW, Lexus) and upscale.

Oh well, so much for the name. It looks sleek though, and I agree, kinda reminded me of the Murano.

tom

alpha01

Is it that bad? I think so, in terms of Subaru's desire to move upstream and increase market penetration. Why risk a negative or apathetic reaction to a product, prior to consumers having even minimal exposure to the end result? I agree with those who state nothing is wrong with alphanumeric names. For me personally, I really like the nomenclature that Infiniti, MB, and Lexus use. Class of vehicle, engine. Simple.

BUT... when the name of an otherwise seemingly attractive vehicle conjures notions of mediocrity... thats when alphanumerics cross the line. Why not just call it the Subaru Uninspiring?
Or the Subaru Marginal?

I just think this company is in a position to do great things with great products, and botching a marketing campaign on such a gross scale is truly sad.

~alpha

sduford

And the XR4TI was a failure in North America.

ateixeira

That was the 80s.

Today, the biggest hit in the segment is the Lexus RX330, let's face it. Noone calls that a presciption.

Today, alphanumeric names just plain work. I don't like them personally, but they do sell.

-juice

robr2

The XR4TI was a failure not because of the name but because nobody really understood why their was a Euro Ford in the Lincoln/Mercury dealerships. The Sierra was Ford's best selling Euro product at one time. Tossing it into LM dealerships was supposed to combat attrition of Lincoln buyers to MB and BMW. Um there wasn't any attrition due to product - it was due to age.

alpha01

Good point, however, the question is... with so many vehicles moving to alphanumerics, will they CONTINUE to work? Especially when everyday cars are now using alphanumerics- like successors to the Mazda Protege, Pontiac Grand Am, and Montana, for example? And can alphanumerically named vehicles afford to have their alphanumerics import bland connotations (Benign X)?

In any case, it is a welcome expansion of an increasingly awesome product portfolio.

~alpha

PS- 3500 miles on our 05 Legacy and going strong! Still cant believe the excellent combination of ride and handling. Since is the future vehicles forum, whats on the horizon for the next Impreza? Id really love to trade my current Nissan on a basic 5 speed model, but the lack of side impact airbags is a huge detractor.

sduford

I've never thought of the RX330 as a prescription until some mentioned it here. But that name rolls well off the tongue and it tells you something about the engine size.

Also, the jump from RX to Rx (prescription) is a conceptual jump, not a "sounds like" issue. But B9 sounds like benign, big difference (at least it's not K9!)

Again, nothing against aplha-numeric names per se, I just don't like THAT aplha-numeric name!

beanboy

Didn't realize the Forester was being sold under the Chevy badge in other markets!

http://www.chevrolet.co.in/content_data/AP/IN/en/GBPIN/001/BRANDS- - ITE/index_forester.html

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/articleshow/906775.cms

I would really like to See Subaru and Holden work together. Talk about creating a REAL Outback model! Have 10 inches of ground clearance, snorkel kit and an LS2 stuffed under the hood, ehehe.

-B

volkov

People making the derisive B9/benign association back when we were all drooling over the B9 SC??

I still don't even feel a strong B9/benign connection when I say it. Maybe it's an American twang thang. So I guess y'all say 'beee-nine' where we say buh-nine.
But wasn't it the Southern gentleman who said, "You mean to say you want puh-caan pie. Peecan is what Grampa used to keep under the bed!"

sduford

Probably because no one cares what they name their concept cars.

ateixeira

LOL volkov.

And yes, I pronounce Benign "buh-nine", not bee nine.

-juice

mylegacy

Have any of you heard about the 06 mazda 6?
sounds pretty good.
it'll be pretty good against the legacy gt ltd.

ateixeira

Yes, I've been following it in some other threads.

It'll get a 6 speed and 18" rims, plus a bit more power and torque, with higher prices than the GT (maybe about $3-4 grand more).

It'll be interesting to see if it's tuned to compete with the EVO and STi, though.

-juice

kens

Sounds good too, but I wonder if it would be a readily available model (ie. one per dealer).

Ken

ateixeira

Good question because some earlier models were not.

It's not hard to find a MSMiata, but I think others were pretty scarce.

-juice

tsy

I bet it handles better than the LGT, but I'm sure the ride will be significantly worse. Even the 6S is a bumpy ride. And noisy.

But maybe it will give Subaru incentive to make a STi version? Can't lose the hp wars. ;-)

tom

volkov

18" rims??? That's when show means more than go. 16-17 does make a difference, but 18's rarely improve performance and in most cases definately do impede both acceleration and braking performance. But at least they'll help identify any loose fillings - by shaking them out of your mouth!!
Still, I'd love to take it for a test drive.

Nicholas

OOPS! forgot the chant-
Legacy STi...wagon
Legacy STi...Wagon
Legacy STi...Wagon pleeeeeeaaaaaase!!!

ateixeira

Indeed, I think the MazdaSpeed is their tuner version and will go fairly extreme in the suspension tuning.

But Subaru has struck a nice balance, IMO. CR rated the Legacy as the best riding car of the group recently tested, but also mentioned the ride was among the best.

It beat the TSX at both (ride and handling). Not bad.

-juice

eric102

Anyone heard of any major changes to the 06 Forester? A sales person at my local dealership was hinting that there was going to be more than a cosmetic update. He didn't say what changes of course (probably didn't know) but suggested I wait for an 06 when I told him I was going to buy in early 05. It seems kind of early for a major redo, didn't they just update in 03?

Eric

rsholland

'06 Forester is scheduled for a facelift. How large or small is anybody's guess. I suspect it will be fairly hefty, but that's just a gut feeling.

Bob

rsholland

$1500 worth of upgrades for just a $500 bump in MSRP.

http://www.prnewswire.com/cgi-bin/stories.pl?ACCT=109&STORY=/- - www/story/11-16-2004/0002459530&EDATE=

I'm surprised that this '05 model is just now being released. What took so long???

Bob

flapper

Actually, they have been out for about the last 2 months...picked mine up about a month ago. Terrific value, especially when you consider the $1000 rebate.

ateixeira

Good to see them give the OBS a boost.

2006 Forester might get the B9X look to the front end. It could also get the 168hp state of tune for the 2.5l engine, who knows?

At this point we know little about the B9X, Subaru is good at keeping secrets.

-juice

rangner

Juice,

If subaru releases any non-AVCS engine (ie the 168 hp N/A 2.5l) in any subaru in the 2006 MY, they must be on crack! That would be simply ridiculous.

Eric

ateixeira

Well, at least no new engines without it.

All the 2.5l turbos and the H6 have AVCS. But the N/A 2.5l and the WRX 2.0T do not.

-juice

rsholland

the 2.5 will be upgraded for '06. I can't imagine not going AVCS with all their engines.

Bob

rangner

Maybe so, but I'm just getting tired of all the higher end models getting all the goodies. Look at the 05 Legacy/Outbacks--you can't get AVCS unless you go turbo or to an H-6.

Simply put, any engine without some sort of variable valve timing is dated and should not be included in new models of a company of the caliber that Subaru is.

Maybe the've already built too many phase II 2.5L engines and they're having to unload them into new models. Their reasoning escapes me.

Eric

rangner

agreed

eric

ateixeira

CR went as far as calling the new Outback "underpowered" in the buyer's guide I just got.

They recommend every Subaru, by the way, the Baja moved up to "Better than Average" reliability. Others are too, except Forester is "Much Better than Average".

-juice

sduford

I agree with Eric.

The engine in my wife's 2005 Impreza RS consumes way too much gas for a compact car with no performance, and it sounds downright ancient, kind of like an old beetle engine.

It's the only part of the car that is underwhelming.

In this day and age, AVCS is an absolute necessity.

kens

How much extra power would be added by AVCS? IIRC, the JDM Subaru NA engines all use AVCS. They get a mild improvement in performance, but probably not enough to make the current base OB feel significantly faster.

Ken

ateixeira

The RS isn't slow, I've seen 0-60 around mid 7s range. Par for its price, I think.

Air cooled boxers sound waaaaaay different IMHO. They are tinny, more metallic sounding.

The boxer growls, some say it sounds like a tractor when they're in an insulting mood.

I don't know how AVCS would change the sounds, though.

-juice

ozman62

That, if your wife's RS is quite new, the motor will still 'loosen' up significantly, and feel more powerful as it does. And also, you're used to a much more powerful car...
Owen

sduford

Agreed. Actually didn't mean to emphasize the performance, which is certainly quite acceptable.

However, the engine noise and fuel consumption are not thrilling. But it is still a lot of car for the money, especially given that in Canada they all come with 16" alloy wheels and bigger brakes.

Sly

rangner

As far as maximum output, it probably would add about 15 or so hp to approximately 180 hp.

To me the higher maximum output wouldn't matter as much as better engine output at all engine speeds. In other words a better power/torque curve than we curretly have.

Eric