Subaru Crew - Future Models II

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Comments

  • jeffmcjeffmc Member Posts: 1,742
    Having the Stars & Stripes next to your name is no big deal... after all, it's only a matter of time before you're the 51st state anyway. Unless Puerto Rico beats you to it, then you can be No. 52. :P
  • samiam_68samiam_68 Member Posts: 775
    The SOA website mentions that memory seats will be available on the GT and Spec B (and possibly the OB XT?). Does anyone know if the memory settings include the outside mirrors as well?
  • alaskanwillalaskanwill Member Posts: 28
    My point is that this car might not do as well in comparison tests as the last one, although I agree that I would rather have six speeds than five.
  • slazengerslazenger Member Posts: 99
    Someone who works for a subie dealer claims (on nasoic) there will be a major announcement this Sunday. Any guesses?
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    None whatsoever.

    Sunday? Could it becoming from Japan, as that will likely be Monday over there?

    Bob
  • once_for_allonce_for_all Member Posts: 1,640
    if it's a new Baja I will die a thousand times, as my taxes were horrendous just now.

    John
  • jeffmcjeffmc Member Posts: 1,742
    Well, apparently it's non-product related (after reading that thread), but he calls it a "major" announcement, so I'm guessing they're either going to jointly build a new production plant with Toyota or are upping their warranty to 10-year, 100k miles, bumper to bumper. My interest is piqued.

    Since the announcement may take place on Easter Sunday in the US, I was hoping it was news about the R1 & R2, since Subaru brags about those models' "egg-shaped" safety structure. I'd like to find one or two of those in my Easter basket. :) Mmm... creamy, more-miles-per-gallon goodness.
  • subearusubearu Member Posts: 3,613
    *drool* goodness, I apologize for that. :shades:

    -Brian
  • kenskens Member Posts: 5,869
    Nice find.

    I didn't realize that they used musical notation to indicate Sport Sharp (S#).

    So is Intelligent mode S-flat? :-p

    Ken
  • saedavesaedave Member Posts: 694
    I wonder whether this control would reduce the lag-followed-by-lurch start of the automatic trans GT. The description doesn't seem to address this issue.
  • lilbluewgn02lilbluewgn02 Member Posts: 1,089
    juice...can you hear the sustain???

    Les Paul guitars, whether Gibson or Epiphone (like mine) do have incredible sustain...you can play a note, go to Rome and back, have a leisurely dinner, take a train cross-country, and when you get back, the note will still be playing...it's partly because they have what is called a set neck...it is glued to the body as opposed to being bolted on like Fender Strats.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    OK, some scoopage from the show...

    * ALL Legacy sedans get a split fold rear seat, it works nicely
    * 6 speed and Torsen are for real
    * SI-drive is supposedly more than a gimmick (wanna try it!)
    * Memory is for seat only, not mirrors
    * dark gray metallic is gorgeous in person
    * love the new seats, Alcantara feels like expensive suede

    It was very sharp looking.

    They had the STI Limited and hinted that since they delete the expensive BBS rims and spoiler, it might come out at the same price as the regular STI or perhaps just $500-1000 more. That would be a big boom for the STI - it would sell like hotcakes I bet.

    Subaru usually prices leather/moonroof at $2500 or so extra with the Limited packages.

    07 'beca was also there, but we only got up close to the spec.B.

    The SI-Drive button goes where the heated seat controls used to be, and those controls just move back to the base of the center console. The center arm rest might block those controls, however, but no big deal.

    -juice
  • volkovvolkov Member Posts: 1,306
    An little more info on the remote start 5MT. In the older ones like mine, being in neutral activated contacts for a 10V feedback circuit which had to be on for the remote start to activate. They changed it last year so now it is a ground circuit. According to my local mechanic.
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    I spent a fair amount of time talking to one of the Subie reps manning the Subie booth at the NY show last Monday. Here's what I learned:

    • This guy has seen some photos of the '08 Legacy, and according to him the front end is more like an Acura TL. So it sounds like it may not get the Zap nose. Keep in mind that's his interpretation of the front. Your mileage may vary...

    • As to the '08 Impreza grille, he thought it would be similar to the grille on the B5-TPH concept.

    • He also said they SOA may be considering offering an Impreza STI wagon! That really surprised me. However, the more I think about it—now that they've released a STI Limited sedan—it seems far more plausible. I do think if we see one, it will be offered only in Limited trim though.

    • He also indicated that sales on the STI have slowed way down. This may be why SOA is offering the Limited version, to generate more interest in the STI.

    So folks, take this for what it's worth (maybe a lot, maybe nothing)...

    Bob
  • dstew1dstew1 Member Posts: 275
    If I had to choose I'd rather see the STI Forester, but I definitely wouldn't complain about an Impreza STI wagon.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I think they would sell out pretty quickly, especially if it were limited to 800 like the sedan will be.

    Why? The L-GT wagon no longer comes with a manual. There is pent-up demand for a hot wagon. I think this would even convince people that wanted the Legacy to bite.

    -juice
  • saedavesaedave Member Posts: 694
    Note the roof rack from the present Legacy wagon; a little less drag?
  • gotenks243gotenks243 Member Posts: 116
    The text superimposed on this image is what's interesting. Now, everyone take a deep breath first. Japanese car "magazines" are more along the lines of sketchy tabloids when it comes to new car predictions. But anyway the text says "The next gen won't have a boxer? The direction of Toyota & Subaru's next-gen Legacy."

    I'd give this rumor about a 5% probability of coming true, at best, but how would you feel if it did? Us Subaru owners tend to appreciate the quirk of having a boxer as opposed to an inline or v engine. Otherwise, Subaru collaborating with Toyota isn't a bad thing.

    Thoughts?

    Mike
  • kenskens Member Posts: 5,869
    Mike,

    You beat me to it. I was going to comment the same about the Japanese text.

    My guess is that whatever magazine the photo came from is just speculating on what could happen now that Subaru and Toyota are related.

    Ken
  • grahampetersgrahampeters Member Posts: 1,786
    G'day

    I would be very surprised if there was a move away from a boxer engine. Much of the virtue of the Subaru comes from the very low engine configuration. Repackaging with an in-line or V engine would raise the centre of mass of the engine and would likely need a reconfigured engine bay, lifting the bonnet line. There are inherent problems with using a boxer layout but the cots of majr body reconfiguration are likely to make the shift to a more conventional format just too hard.

    Cheers

    Graham
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    I agree. I can't see Subaru moving away from the boxer engine format. It's part of their DNA.

    Bob
  • rblnrrblnr Member Posts: 124
    Anybody?

    If and when will a Subaru be a Zapatinas design from start to finish, rather then him coming into the middle of the design process?
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    I've heard rumors that he may no longer be in charge. I've heard this from 2 SOA reps at 2 different car shows. Whether he is still with FHI or not, I don't know.

    Bob
  • dstew1dstew1 Member Posts: 275
    I think I read last week that Zap was no longer there... can't remember where I saw it though and haven't been able to find it again.

    Doug
  • saedavesaedave Member Posts: 694
    Did not Toyota have a near flat engine in an early Previa? That was several years ago, but they may still have the design available. If that engine is still in use in some Japanese market model, the substitution is not so far fetched.

    The relative production cost might be the deciding factor.

    Enthusiasts might not like it, but what percent of buyers do we represent?
  • once_for_allonce_for_all Member Posts: 1,640
    oh we are huge. Repeat Subaru buyers make up the bulk of SOA's business.

    I wouldn't see much advantage staying Subaru if there are signficant engine/drivetrain changes.

    John
  • kenskens Member Posts: 5,869
    Really? While I understand the boxer engine being something Subaru advertises to make it a signature of their vehicles, how many people actually chose Subarus because of it beyond our dedicated bunch here?

    While I like the idea of the boxer engine, my choice is more influenced by other factors such as AWD, safety, performance, value and uniqueness.

    While I don't wish for Subaru to lose it's boxer engine, I honestly would not be averse to buying a Subaru equiped with (don't gasp) a V6 or I6.

    Ken
  • once_for_allonce_for_all Member Posts: 1,640
    You are right, most people shopping Subaru aren't looking at the engine/drivetrain. Oh, they might find the idea of AWD a benefit, but really not care much about the application process.

    But I do think the boxer/drivetrain layout has made its mark on owners after the first purchase. Notice how the latest DRIVE magazine takes a whole page to explain why the boxer equipped vehicle doesn't lean as much on a turn vs an upright? Subaru is savvy that this fact resonates with a bunch of us, and is playing that card to separate itself.

    When you mention AWD, safety, performance, value, and uniqueness, I would argue that the boxer engine is a large part of all of that. You didn't mention reliability, which is another key aspect resulting from the drivetrain's layout, again made possible because of the boxer. All other AWD systems are highly complex, typically don't work as well, and are very expensive.

    And yes we own a V-6 minivan also. But it doesn't tickle the engineering passion that the boxer creates.

    John
  • kenskens Member Posts: 5,869
    Thanks for reminding me about reliability. I think I take that one for granted with my Subies and it doesn't even come up as something I need to mention!

    Yes, Subaru has been pitching the benefits of a lower CG enabled by a boxer engine, but it's not a requirement but an enabler. A vehicle with any other engine design could also have a low CG as well.

    Don't get me wrong. I'm very much enamoured with Subaru's vehicle designs but I'm just trying to step out of our enthusiast minds and look at it from a more pragmatic standpoint.

    The fact that Subaru highlights the boxer engine and symmetrical AWD is that it's one of the key features that it can easily differentiate itself from other vehicles. I know there are many other things like rally heritage, but the drivetrain is easy to explain. As a marketing person, I see Subaru mentioning this feature in DRIVE as a way to build customer loyalty by making us feel good (and for good reason) about our vehicles. It's much easier to retain customers than to find new ones.

    As much as I love the boxer engines in the Subaru's I've owned, they are not without it's tradeoffs either. Front overhang is relatively long on Subarus compared to an inline-6 in a BMW which also affects handling. Also the engine displacement is somewhat more limited. I would be hard to create an 8-cylinder boxer with reasonable exterior dimensions.

    So, if Subaru were to introduce a new vehicle with all the other traits that make Subaru a Subaru but without a boxer engine, I probably would still be an interested buyer.

    Ken (just trying to think outside of the box-er) ;-)
  • saedavesaedave Member Posts: 694
    I wouldn't see much advantage staying Subaru if there are signficant engine/drivetrain changes

    We differ. If there was a way to put the new 3.5 liter Toyota V6 in an Outback without ruining handling, fuel economy and performance gains would be significant. Many would be happy with the change.
  • once_for_allonce_for_all Member Posts: 1,640
    yea, well, there are all kinds of neat features in the car world that we could grab here and there to custom make a car of our own preference. Me, I would like the turbo-diesel that is in the Mazda 5 in Europe in my Forester. But, a boxer is a unique engine and it is what makes the Subaru work so well. Take it out, and you have what? A compromise. Something gets lost.

    John
  • rangnerrangner Member Posts: 336
    In the first place, I doubt that subaru would move away from the boxer engine given that it is one of its core values, so I don't think there's anything to worry about. That being said, I don't have a problem with other vehicles using other engine layouts and they are good cars in their own right, but it would be heresy if subaru switched engine design. It would be like trying to sell FWD subarus in the early 90's--they would lose their brand identity, which is essential to the success of any major car company. Eric
  • rblnrrblnr Member Posts: 124
    Does anyone else consider this to be fairly major news? Here's the guy who was to set Subaru's design direction for the future and no he's gone. And after being brought in w/some fanfare.

    Thoughts on what this means for Subaru? As a big fan of their cars, I wonder.
  • once_for_allonce_for_all Member Posts: 1,640
    my thoughts?

    It means the snoze is gone. Few liked it.

    John
  • samiam_68samiam_68 Member Posts: 775
    The Toyota 3.5 liter V6 is a real gem of an engine. If Subaru were to adopt this engine, it would certainly save the Tribeca from stagnant sales, and give the OB / Legacy a much needed fuel economy increase over the current H6 and H4-turbo.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    If I wanted a top-heavy transverse-mounted V6 engine, I'd buy one from Toyota.

    Subarus should have boxer engines.

    Though I will admit AWD is a more important part of their critical DNA, the boxer engine is #2 on that list.

    -juice
  • kenskens Member Posts: 5,869
    Ah, so there it is. If Subaru managed to put in a Nissan VQ and didn't change anything else about the vehicle including handling, then even some of us hardcores would buy it or at least consider it.

    Just wanted to stir up the pot a bit.

    Okay, back to loving my boxer engine! ;-p

    Ken
  • robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    Change that to GTI. The Golf nee Rabbit is going down market starting at under $14K.
  • locke2clocke2c Member Posts: 5,038
    I posted to the blog and I don't believe it.

    ~Colin
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    That chop looks like they put an STI wing on a B5-TPH. The reaction to that show car was lukewarm so my guess is we'll see something totally different.
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Reportedly the facelifted Legacy will debut in Japan on May 24. We get it as an '08 model.

    image

    Rumors:

    • No spread-wing grille
    • Headlights similar to current units bt may wrap up a bit higher on the fender
    • Smaller tail lights with the top third clear.
    • New bumpers
    • Revised interior

    Grrr... can't get the image to show... It's over at nabisco.

    Bob
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    The pic is blurry and pretty useless anyway.

    Personally, I love the way the Legacy looks now. I've heard some criticism that's it's a bit boring, but not to me. They really don't need to change much.

    It won't have a family resemblance, but still.

    I guess Zap really is out.

    -juice
  • kenskens Member Posts: 5,869
    Yeah, took a look over at nabisco and that photo could be just about any vehicle with a Photoshop blur applied to it.

    Interesting to note that Subaru isn't planning on staying the course with the new corporate look and grille. I wonder if they weren't getting much positive feedback.

    I still love the way the new Legacy looks too (OK, so I'm a little biased). The only thing I wish Subaru would do is implement a design that takes into account the US bumper specs from the get-go.

    Ken
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Ken, anything new in the Japanese text in that ad?

    Bob
  • kenskens Member Posts: 5,869
    Nothing. The ad just says "The New Legacy coming soon", "Featuring the new SI-Drive system", "A combination of value and sportiness".

    Ken
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    I suspect this is the real thing. My guess is that these are actual photos that have been altered via some Photoshop filters to appear as illustrations, and to avoid violating any image embargos.

    Bob
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Observations...

    Window tint won't make it here.

    Rear wiper probably won't either.

    Tail light looks shorter? It doesn't line up with the body line so I like it less, actually.

    Is that a wagon with the spec.B wheels? :)

    Wagon looks like it got a wider grille opening, and a new bumper. That's probably JDM, it's too clean for the USA. :D

    Very mild face-lift, IMO. I don't think it needed much change, so that's fine. Thumbs up.

    -juice
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