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Comments
Bob
I get it - you don't like their product (for understandable reasons, as they have their share of issues), so no credit can be given for anything.
2018 430i Gran Coupe
Give me an ugly car that works anyday of the week. Heck my mom's Kia Optima that cost 12k including tax, tags, title, delivery etc. has better reliability than ANY of the people I know who own VW/Audi products!
-mike
2018 430i Gran Coupe
-mike
2018 430i Gran Coupe
Worst part was the trans kept going out on it.
-mike
2018 430i Gran Coupe
-mike
How about the Tribeca - when will dealers have them?
Bob
FWIW, I love Audi's styling, and I think the A3 looks far better than the BMW 130i does, no contest.
Doesn't matter what I think. Styling is subjective. Sure, editors drool over Audi's styling, but so what? It hasn't made consumers run to the stores with their pocket books.
All that proves is that Editors like an underdog.
BMW is laughing all the way to the bank. Sales have skyrocketed. Their concave surfaces have inspired actual BUYERS with actual MONEY to give up that money for the cars we often find "ugly".
I've disliked the 7 series from day one. I've been very vocal about that, too, here and elsewhere. But look at some sales figures for the flagships, which is really what counts for prestige of the brands.
A8 sales figures aren't even in the basement, they're in the toilet. They are simply a non-event in the sales race. Why should Subaru invest heavily to copy an also-ran in sales in the prestige segment?
They made a simple decision - they will mimick the prestige sales champ, not the underdog.
ateixeira, "Subaru Tribeca 2008" #25, 4 Apr 2007 9:12 am
Check it out, along with the next post. While the Tribeca grille does have similarities, there is simply no way the Tribeca "looks like an Aspen".
If you say that again I will ask you to PUT DOWN THE CRACK PIPE and maybe get a new prescription for your glasses while you're at it.
Sure, the grilles are similar.
The Pontiac G5's grille looks like a BMW grille. Does anyone mistake one for the other? No.
The outgoing Impreza platform was outdated and smaller than its competitors. Makes perfect sense to move up to the larger and more modern/advanced Legacy platform. Sharing platforms makes a lot of sense from cost and productions standpoints. For one thing, it means they could more easily make Legacy and Impreza models on the same line. And I don't see a disadvantage to the Legacy platform in any way -- the LGT sedan has already proven its worthiness as a WRX competitor. If anything, this is a major improvement for the Impreza in terms of refinement.
Who? :confuse: Chrysler Sebring or Kia Spectra5?
Really - where are BMW (I assume that's what you're talking about) styling cues :confuse:
2018 430i Gran Coupe
and this...
Bob
Shoulder crease is a big BMW styling cue. The crease on both flattens out before the front fender to allow a smooth curve over the side of the hood. There's also a crease in the hoods of both that angles to meet at the A-pillar and continue the line over the roofline. And the door panels of both look to be concave under the crease.
Subaru does have a styling crisis. Their cars have no common theme, every time they start something, they abandon it half way. For me, best looking front Impreza is current 06/07, followed closely by 02/03. Tribeca was so terrible that they simply abandonded ship just when they got it right. Knowing that styling/design decisions are made years in advance, I kind of understand it.
That may also explain their 4-speed AT fiasco. Perhaps just a couple of years ago it did not look like a big deal, but with a sleugh of 5/6/7/8 speed autos it became really a big marketing problem that was simply not recognized. Same with some other equipment, like telescopic steering wheel on Legacies (3 years overdue), HID lights (still not done right), or VDC/6-speed manuals.
Subaru seems to be reactive to market trends when it comes to equipment. Instead of trying to anticipate demand, they react to it, which puts them behind the curve almost all the time.
On the other hand, they seem to be ahead in general concept: Outback pretty much started the crossover segment, WRX started fast compact segment, or use of AWD as a viable performance enhancement.
The problem is that they take the risks (vide initial sales failure of Tribeca), but rewards are reaped by others, as they take those new concept and work out the details that seem to be eluding Subaru's grasp. It's not enough they were there first - when others come they have to do the work to remain a player, ESPECIALLY if they are small company. If Ford puts its AWD on Fusion and advertises "first midsize", just becuase Legacy is technically a compact, we could laugh - but it's no joke. Lets imagine Honda follows up and puts its simplified SH-AWD on Accord or Nissan lets Maxima AWD from G35. What then would be Legacy's edge? Symmetrical AWD? Who cares except juice, Bob and I? It's not so far fetched and I would be scared to death, if I were SoA.
2018 430i Gran Coupe
-mike
Now, which one is the BMW? I can barely tell them apart below the window line.
It's funny how people zoom in on one tiny little feature, like a grille or a headlight or a taillight.
Open your eyes, and look at the entire body. That entire lower half screams BMW.
Kia, Toyota, Hyundai, Mazda, and all the other brands mentioned don't use concave panels like that.
Just imagine a buyer thinking he is buying a Jaguar, when he buys a Hyundai and considers it the deal of the century. :surprise: :shades:
The point is not to target BMW's prospective customers. The idea is to give it a bit of an upscale style more european than the typical stuff coming out these days.
-mike
They're just using a styling formula (concave panels) that has worked well for BMW.
Ford was actually first with the creases, what they called New Edge styling. But the panels were still convex, they just met at a crease.
Cadillac uses creases for its Art & Science look, but they basically frame boxy panels that are mostly flat.
The Tribeca hinted at the BMW X5 when it came out.
The WRX looks even more like a BMW, in this case the 1- and 3-series.
Totally off topic, but I'd take an Azera over an X-Type any day, even though the latter has AWD. :P
Look at how long they took to bring NaV, VDC into OBs. Still they don't have memory seats, bluetooth etc.
Look at Forester, they invented the segment and it is soooooooooooooooooo far behind.
What i am wondering is if we know this, why is it so hard for them to undertand.
either they get proactive or else they will perish soon or keep selling cars at discounts.
AWD is no longer their niche. They tried getting into performance segment but gas prices keep getting higher and keeping a lot of custmers away.
what is their niche - the loyal customer base !
-mike
Then, what vehicle is the countdown going to show?
cusafr
Funny thing - the "upscale-schmapscale" move was not a bad idea in its core. I think Takenaka did it in recognition of the threat and the move was a legitimate chance of avoiding the oblivion. The problem was that plan was not really thought out and even worse executed. They had two choices: either go German/Swedish (stripped base versions, lots of option, high personalization) or go Acura - full, and I mean full package and one-two big ticket option, like Nav and Automatic. Former was out of their current capabilities, so only the latter might have worked. What did they do? Neither. I looked like they thought it was enough to get better styling on one model, add 250 hp turbo with AWD and call it the day. Add, then course WRX/STi - fast, but hardly upscale, even with couple of updates. What were they thinking?
Now, they say - no more upscale talk. Allright - but what instead? Subaru Camry AWD? No, thanks :sick: . What will be next?
2018 430i Gran Coupe
Bob
I think it would have served Subaru better to have "released" snippets of the WRX through "leaks" over the past several months and then monitored reactions from the public through the public forums. Stylistic changes like getting rid of stinkers like the ricer taillights and replacing them with conventional ones, could have been effected, if so done.
Having said that, I believe they did an excellent job in their re-design of the Tribeca. Luckily no design stinkers there with a strictly middle-of-the-road approach.
Collectively they knew it was going to cause a huge outrage at first. But they had thought it through as a complete styling doctrine and were convinced it was the right course. They also believed that the brand's core audience would understand and embrace the move, which certainly seems to have been the case. Lastly, he predicted that more and more "words" from this updated "language" would begin to be adopted by others, precisely because there is almost nowhere new for design to go.
Looks like those 2 inches went into the new schnozz.
tribeca is a great 5 seater and is a bad 7 seater. take my word, they will give more incentives on 7-seater version. as they did in last 2 years
Also take into account how the interior room is configured, for instance the volume of a Forester may be equal to the volume of a legacy wagon, but the Forester is boxier which makes it more usable.
The CX-9 looks pretty curvy.
-mike
Having a crease along the side does not make the Impreza look like a Beemer. Impreza has proportions of a typical front wheel drive generic economy sub-compact.
Besides the Impreza is an Impreza, it's got kick-butt engine and AWD system and that isn't replicated by any of the competition.
-mike
Supposedly a Subaru is a "Green" car, but its mileage is worse than comparable Ford and GM products, even though its smaller, lighter and less torque than either. They were damn near broke until GM rescued them.
Bronco II- Reliability wasn't it's strong suit. Maybe you got lucky but I know of a ton of folks with problems on these trucks. 4mpg better? Highly doubt it unless there was something grossly wrong with your Subaru.
As for Milage worse than GM and Ford? Hmm how many of them have full time all wheel drive? None is the answer so you are comparing apples to spinach!
Damn near broke? Where did you get your information from? GM didn't rescue them at all my friend. I think you are mistaking your facts here. GM sucked the life out of Isuzu (stole the Duramax Diesel technology, burned out the rest of the company) Probably would have done the same to Subaru if they didn't sell their portion to Toyota.
-mike
integrated key & key fob
the site is well done for the 1st time