Subaru Crew - Future Models II

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Comments

  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    That's how it always is for a year or 2. For instance if you tried to trade in last year's honda accord it would be worth less than if last year you tried to trade in the previous year because now there is a "new" accord out.

    -mike
    Motorsports and Modifications Host
  • kurtamaxxxguykurtamaxxxguy Member Posts: 1,798
    Thnx, Paisan. I was afraid of that. ;-(

    Wrt new '09 Forester, first look suggested Edmunds likes it, and it sounds good. But I am curious if the auto version has a LSD at the back, or relies on open diff using VDC to try to control wheel spin, ala the '08 Impreza.

    The more sophisicated AWD system in the Outback now seems the only reason to get that, instead of the new '09 Forester.
  • aaykayaaykay Member Posts: 539
    If I were to guess, I would say that the new Forester will have the setup identical to the 08 Impreza. I know that the Auto version (including the Turbo Forester which only comes as an Auto) shares the same 4-spd transmission as the Impreza and no reason why most of the other mechanicals, would not be the same too (including the lack of the rear LSD).
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    The VDC is way way safer than a simple rear LSD.

    The other reason for an outback may include the more upscale feel of the outback, the floor length of the rear cargo area on the outback is longer, and the outback XT can be had with an MT.

    Milage may also be an issue as the box will probably be worse than the outback.

    -mike
    Motorsports and Modifications Host
  • jeffmcjeffmc Member Posts: 1,742
    Glowing reports from Europe in the first round of reviews for new 2.0 turbodiesel Legacy. Best quote: "...Subaru deserves to sell as many of these as it can make."

    Let's hope they can make quite a few. :shades:

    http://www.autocar.co.uk/CarReviews/FirstDrives/Subaru-Legacy-2.0-TD/230393/

    http://www.channel4.com/4car/rt/subaru/legacy/16539/5
  • samiam_68samiam_68 Member Posts: 775
    Seems kinda strange - the UK car in the picture in the first article has a steering wheel on the left. Hmmm...
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    It's like I told Bob...

    I'm sure the day after we buy a Forester they will launch a diesel with a 7 speed that gets 50mpg and costs less than the one I bought. :sick:
  • zman3zman3 Member Posts: 857
    Well get out there tomorrow and buy one then.
  • jeffmcjeffmc Member Posts: 1,742
    Lots of details on the Legacy/Outback turbodiesels from a Subaru UK press release. (Just remember it's Imperial gallons, not US gallons in the MPG ratings shown in the press release. I think the US gallon numbers were 39 city/49 hwy/42 combined, IIRC.)

    http://www.newspress.co.uk/DAILY_LINKS/arc_jan_2008/54510sub.htm
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    http://blogs.edmunds.com/Straightline/4175
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    That's still amazing.

    I think the Bluetec E-class gets 27/37, so 39/49 makes me say WOW.
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Don't get too giddy yet. Remember those were imperial gallons that were quoted.

    Bob
  • jeffmcjeffmc Member Posts: 1,742
    Ah, found the US gallons conversion I was looking for.... my memory of the city MPG was too high, but the hwy & combined were right on:

    City: 7 liters/100 km = 33.6 MPG
    Highway: 4.8 liters/100 km = 49 MPG
    Combined: 5.6 liters/100 km = 42 MPG
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Still great numbers.

    Sadly I don't think I'll be in the market again (except maybe for a roadster) for the next 5-6 years.
  • rblnrrblnr Member Posts: 124
    any chance of this engine being released here? My Tribeca lease is up in Sept., and I want something more fuel efficient. Unfortunately, that might put Subie out of the picture.
  • erics6erics6 Member Posts: 684
    Mid 2010. I'm waiting.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    If a 5 seater will do, what about an 09 Forester?

    It would use a lot less fuel than a Tribeca. About 25% less.
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    http://www.carmagazine.co.uk/Drives/Search-Results/First-drives/Subaru-Legacy-Sp- orts-Tourer-20TD-RE/
  • rblnrrblnr Member Posts: 124
    I'll have to see if I can get away with the width. Should be a bit wider than the old Forester (which I owned) -- problem w/that was no room between the two kid seats in the back.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    The new one has that uber-cool folding arm rest plus fold-forward cup holder & bin. Perfect for our 2 kids.

    I was praying the US models would get it and it looks like all but the base X models do.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Very interesting. Smooth so you don't notice it's a diesel from the driver's seat, with power delivery so linear that some turbo diesel fans may even complain.

    Does this sound like they engineered it for the US market, or what?

    The comments are interesting, too.
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    http://www.autoobserver.com/2008/01/subaru-boxer-di.html
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    OK, Bob, stop it else I may not buy that 09 Forester. ;)
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Just wait to 2010, or thereabouts—and get a Forester diesel. :)

    Bob
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    My wife isn't that patient.

    Come to think of it, neither am I. :D
  • oregonboyoregonboy Member Posts: 1,650
    I am !! :)
  • kurtamaxxxguykurtamaxxxguy Member Posts: 1,798
    Very impressive. A lot more rear passenger room than the Outback with real foot room below the front seats (there was a little less space behind rear seats. Interior is very much like the Impreza but with an upscale woven headliner and a few more refinements. Topline power seats are very comfortable and a match for Outback front seats. Driveline for the XT series includes a limited slip diff and clutchpack planetery 4-speed sportshift trans. Underside of the car was clean. Ride heigth is very similar to outback. Pricing was estimated to be around $21 to 28K or so.

    Only advantages I can see for outback are somewhat higher interior trim quality and a larger cargo space behind the seats.

    I've no more plans to look at Subies until this one comes to the dealers. For me, It's that good.
  • jeffmcjeffmc Member Posts: 1,742
    Well, that sounds like a pretty good first impression. :)

    I'd forgotten about Impreza's vinyl headliner... glad Forester is better. Do you recall if Forester's visors are cloth or vinyl? Glad about the footroom... that's half the problem with the legroom anyway: not being able to utilize that toe space. Anyone know if the subwoofer's under the seat again? Isn't the Nav unit under the seat as well? Did the XT you sat in have Nav or subwoofer?
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    The Nav unit is all encompassing in the head unit IIRC. There are 2 slots 1 for the nav DVD one for the movie/music/mp3 CD/DVD.

    -mike
    Motorsports and Modifications Host
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    upscale woven headliner

    Whoa, that's strange.

    The one here in DC has peach fuzz, with a pattern stamped on it, but definitely not woven or upscale. And it was an LL Bean model, leather and all.

    I'm 100% sure it was different, I look for that specifically when evaluating interior material quality.

    So...I wonder which one makes production?

    Also, the visors were hard plastic. They looked a bit cheap, and out of place. I'm beginning to think the one here in DC was inferior to the one you saw.

    Again, I wonder which one makes production? :confuse:

    Those and some thin carpet were the things I did not like about it. My overall impression was very positive. I shared the details in the 2009 Forester thread.
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Drives/FirstDrives/articleId=124553?tid=edm- unds.il.home.photopanel..2.*

    There's even mention of a possible rally and/or STI version!

    Bob
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    six-speeder is under development

    Interesting, but if they're working on a 6 speed why do the WRX and Forester still get a 4 speed?

    Bummer that is doesn't yet meet CARB emissions standards.
  • kurtamaxxxguykurtamaxxxguy Member Posts: 1,798
    Perhaps Subaru can license some of the emission-lowering technology Honda has developed?

    In any event, it's nice to see an upcoming Subaru engine that will offer decent low end torque.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    They're more likely to partner with Toyota, except Toyota has focused primarily on hybrids up to now.
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Interesting, but if they're working on a 6 speed why do the WRX and Forester still get a 4 speed?

    Your comment doesn't make sense juice. The 6-speed is still under development. When it's ready, I suspect it will the WRX (and other Subies) will get it too.

    Bob
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    My point is if they are moving on from the 5 speed already, why are the Forester and Impreza so far behind?

    I'll answer my own question, though - they will get a CVT instead.
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    I think they were referring to a 6-speed Manual, not automatic.

    Bob
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Oh.

    Duh. Never mind, then.
  • erics6erics6 Member Posts: 684
    Hopefully we'll see the 6 speed manual and CVT or automatic by 2010.
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Look for those to be the 2 trans options in the 2010 Legacies mated to a 3.6 H6 and possibly 3.6H6t, I guess they could use the diesel as a base engine in that car too.

    -mike
    Motorsports and Modifications Host
  • jeffmcjeffmc Member Posts: 1,742
    "I guess they could use the diesel as a base engine in that car too."

    That'd be enough for us to trade our current Legacy right away... assuming the rest of the car stays decent, of course.
  • nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    meaning there might be no 4-cylinder gas offered in the 2010 Legacy??!!

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Doubtfully, unless there is a 4 cyclinder 2.5 Direct Injection with at least 175-200hp. The new Legacy will be significantly larger than the current one and an H4 will likely not be powerful enough to move it.

    -mike
    Motorsports and Modifications Host
  • dino001dino001 Member Posts: 6,191
    No way. Lager Legacy will be no larger than current Accord, Camry, Altima, or Malibu. All of them have 150-180 hp 4 cylinders, so why would Subaru willfully withdraw from the market? Makes no sense whatsoever. You need to get out more and see what people making less that milion buck are actually driving :P ;) For them adequate power is 10 second 0-60, not 5.6...

    2018 430i Gran Coupe

  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Hmm, well, all those cars you mention are FWD. It's bad enough we have Consumer Reports complaining that the OB/Legacy with the 2.5i is sluggish, now figure the new one will be larger, heavier and with AWD it will be even slower if you put in the 2.5L N/A motor. I really think the 3.6 in the tribeca will be the base motor or possibly the diesel 4 cylinder as a base.

    -mike
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I'm sure they'll keep a gas 4 banger. Right now it's still the high volume engine in terms of sales.

    And remember the CAFE standards will only push MPG requirements up.
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    No way will they drop the H4 from the next Legacy and Outback.

    Bob
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    But the 4 cylinder will be working a lot harder to push a 3600lb+ car around.

    My guess is they may do what the did in the SVX... which had an H6 3.3L DOHC 230hp engine in it. Making the gearing however such that it can get 17/30mpg. My SVX weighed 3600lbs, and even with me driving it I got 17/30mpg and at 75mph it turned about 2000rpms in 4th.

    So you figure a 3700-3800lb car with a 5EAT or 6EAT or CVT should be able to turn somewhere in the area of 17/30mpg w/o too much issue IF it has enough torque and HP to move it along, can't do that with the 4 cylinders cause they like to rev. Also with engine and transmission advances from 1992 to 2010 I would easily see this as possible.

    -mike
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    No way will they drop the H4 from the next Legacy and Outback.

    Bob

    I agree, but how can you have an H4 pushing such a porker around? That's why I think there will have to be some major changes in order to get an H4 to push around such a heavy car.

    -mike
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    The bigger Forester gained only 80 lbs.

    They can offset that with a few HP easily enough.

    I think a diesel would still be a niche vehicle. Until people get used to the idea, at least. Most of us like it, but we're not mainstream by any means. The average Joe will buy the economical gas engine.

    The other issue is the H6 costs a bunch more.
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