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Comments
Yes, the Guru's really liked Zaino. I too have the report and refer to it frequently. I'm glad you bought a copy; it's much much more than just a comparo of car waxes.
I spend a great deal of time testing, evaluating, and researching car care products. Over the past 2 months I have received or bought 27 different products from 9 mfr's with more on the way. These products are not just paint protectors like Zaino but paint polishes (some still in the prototype stage and not available to the public), glass cleaners and polishes, interior cleaners, tire dressings, etc, etc.
I do this all to expand my base of knowledge and increase my experiences so that, if asked, I can offer the most balanced and objective viewpoint I possibly can. But primarily I do this because its my favorite hobby and something of great personal interest. I'm happy to pass along whatever info I can to those who are interested.
Many thanks, Joe
I have been reading this board for a few weeks, and decided that Zaino was the way to go. I have a 1999 White Cavalier Z-24, and a 2003 Black Jeep Liberty Renegade. I recieved my order yesterday, and decided to tackle the Z-24 first. I dawned and dried (I had clayed 2 weeks prior, as I do every spring), and Z-5/ZFX 3 coats. There is no denying the deep wet shine, the car looks great, and is in great shape. My problem is that I really thought this product would do a better job on the swirl marks. They may be a little less noticible, but they are still there, and very visible. I followed Sal's instructions, and even bought new towels, but the swirls and spider webs are still pretty evident. Do I apply 3 more coats of Z-5 after I wait 24 hours, or will I just be wasting my time? I really want to make sure this is going to work as advertised before I do the Renegade since it is Black, and such a pain to wash and dry. Any words of advice?
By the way, I decided to go with Zaino based on the posts I read here concerning durability. I am in the Air Force, and heading for a one year remote to Korea. I know Zaino will not last that long, but my wife will never "wax" a car, so I need to at least get the longest lasting protection I can for while I am gone. Hopefully when I come home for my mid tour leave, the weather will be nice enough to get both of them done!
cusafr
I think the best way to think of swirls are as fine scratches which we see due to the irregularity of light reflections from the paint's surface. Z5 will not remove swirls but rather it makes them less noticeable (by filling the voids). A couple more coats of Z5 may help, but deep swirls may require an abrasive product to remove (e.g. Meguiar's Scratch X). Just remember that a bit of the surface (i.e. clearcoat) is removed when doing this. What you are really doing with an abrasive swirl remover is abrading off the fine surface irregularities. I try to avoid abrasives to keep as much of my original clearcoat as possible. Personally, I would Zaino the Renegade. Even if it does not look perfect to you, Zaino is about the best paint protection available.
BTW- Good luck in Korea, and thanks for your service to the U.S. of A. !!!!!!
Jon
--Robert
Last time I got towels, the cashier commented on how much I would like the towels I was buying. When I told her they were for the car, she thought I was nuts.
I've been using Zaino (not ZFX) on my silver-colored '01 Chrysler Sebring onvertible since I got it two years ago, and I'm very happy with it. I've been away from this forum since last summer and just skimmed through 20+ pages. Compared to you guys, I'm just a casual Zainoholic. My last treatment was in September.
Now that Spring has just about sprung in New Jersey, I want to do right by my car, and kick off the top-down season with a thorough Zaino treatment. I have some questions:
(1) Coming off a long, harsh NJ winter, shall I just assume a clay bar treatment is needed?
(2) There are parts of my car where I definitely got too rigorous trying to rub off discolorations, leaving light scratches. I just bought some 3M Rubbing Compound (Fine Cut) that "effectively removes 1500 grit sanding scratches." I plan to apply it by hand (don't have power tools). I want to be cautious here. Is this fine-cut compound going to be effective? Is there something I should apply after it, before applying Zaino?
(3a) I have never followed a 24-hour curing rule between coats of Z2 and Z5, although I don't think I've ever applied more than one coat of each in a single day. How bad is that?
(3b) With the advent of ZFX, which if I understand correctly is an additive only for Z2 and Z5 (not Z1) that facilitates quick curing, what is the curing time now, and how many coats of Z2 and Z5 can I apply in a day dedicated to detailing?
(4) Define "coat": is a "coat" an application of Z2 AND Z5, or is it an application of Z2 OR Z5?
I'll probably have more questions later...thanks in advance, and by the way, it's good to see some of the same names on this forum now as when I first discovered it a couple of years ago.
Steve
1. No. Clay does not remove dirt. You use it to remove imbeded material, usually metal, in the paint. You should not assume that clay is needed just because a winter has passed. You should determine if clay is needed by feeling the surface of the car after a good washing. If there is still rough sharp small particles, then you should clay the car. No need to assume anything when an objective test will give you a definitive answer.
2. I don't know much about this, except that you should start with the lightest abrasive available and work you way up. I'd start with SMR, but there are other boards here that have lots of good information about fixing up problem areas in the paint job.
3. You should not apply a second coat until the first is cured. Without ZFX, this takes a day. If you apply a second coat too fast, it's like repainting a wall before the first coat has dried, more or less. The two applications merge and mix with each other. I would think that the result would be wasting your time doing the second coat. No harm would be done to the car or the Zaino finish.
3b. As for ZFX, this is all on the Zaino site. ZFX replaces Z1. It is mixed with either z2 or z5, and cures instantly, allowing a second and third coat to be applied immediately. For chemical reasons, Zaino says do not apply more than 3 coats in a single 24 hour period.
4. A coat is an application of z2 or z5 (they are very similar). A coat does not include Z1, which is used rarely, and even less so now that we have ZFX.
That's about all I know.
As far as removing scratches, if Z5 doesn't do the trick, then use the lightest polish you can find. While I still have some 3M foam pad, which works well. I had heard that 3M quite making it, though. Usually, anything that says "fine-cut" would be the best thing to use.
Clay, indeed, will not remove scratches. After the initial claying, I only use clay on the rough feeling parts of my finish, usually found on the lower areas of my car. What you want to do is get the smoothest possible area to apply Zaino so all you get is shine and the depth of color for your finish.
Silver is a color that tends to hide swirls. If you can see the damage, its probably pretty serious. Fine Cut is pretty aggressive but will probably be a good start on those scratches. If you have a swirl mark remover or other light polish, that would be a good second step.
Best way to see if your car needs claying is to put your hand in a plastic baggie and lightly rub the surface. If you feel/hear roughness, you should clay. I see no harm in claying your car after winter of driving. It's easy to do and only takes a few minutes so I say go ahead and do the whole car, just to be sure.
Using a light polish all over the car would be a good idea too. It will remove light oxidation, dirt and grime clay cannot, and give the paint a good cleaning which it can use.
Would this work?
SEPC
Z2
S100
Never topped it with S100 or Souveran but I've got both so maybe I'll try it. Don't see any harm in it. Might give you a look you really like.
Z1/ZFX acts as a sort of "primer" that helps following Z layers stick to the paint. Without it, following Z layers may not work properly at all.
Other wax based products, either under or over Zaino will yellow over time, defeating the clarity of the Zaino polish. Also, if they are under the Zaino, they will take off the Zaino as they deteriorate. It's kinda like painting your house without scraping and priming the house first. As the old paint falls off, it takes your new paint with it. Any wax will degrade much faster than a polymer like Zaino, so you you will not benefit from the extremely long life of a Zaino finish.
So, In short - why bother if you're not going to use the product properly?
Although a complete Z treatment from scratch has several layers, it goes really fast - still less time than I used to spend doing a single Meguiar's wax job, and a lot easier too.
Out of curiousity, how many coats can I expect to get out of 1 bottle of each of the above? 8oz. doesn't seem like much!!
Thanks,
PBC
1)After a z7 wash and claying, do I need to remove the zaino that is on the car before I begin with the fine cut polishes
2)If so what do I use? dawn, alcohol...
Great board folks and thanks in advance, for your help
I think I did a Dawn wash, followed by the 3M polish, then another Dawn wash, then clayed, but I don't remember (last year). Email Sal, he'll tell you the correct order (what I did).
--Robert
On another issue, I was at a CarQuest parts store last week and inspected the DuraGloss product line. This product does appear to be a duplicate of the Z lineup product for product. We may never know which came first, the chicken or the egg (Duragloss or Z or Z and Duragloss) or where Z actually gets its product. No one seems to know if Z is manufactured in NJ or is NJ simply a shipping point and the product made elsewhere by someone else?????????
Has anyone used Meguiar's Scratch X? Positive or negative comments? Would I be better off hunting for one of the 3M products?
Thanks in advance for any help that anyone can offer.
Brad
1)i have white lint after i'm finished, its gotten better since ive washed them for a year, but im wondering about micro's. ive read the posts here and over "there" but dont really have any answers. at what stage should i employ the microfiber, and , how safe will it be for my finish. should i just tolerate the lint bec terries are better or what?
--Robert
http://www.microfibertech.com
http://www.neatitems.com
http://www.properautocare.com
If you put detergent in the washer, it never gets rinsed out and you have soapy towels when you dampen them while washing the car.
If you use microfiber towels, I recommend rinsing by hand in the sink to make sure the towels do not reabsorb the dirt and soap.
I continue to use terrycloth for everything except drying after a wash, because I am too lazy to rinse the MF in the sink. Also, I never use detergent in the washer when washing the MF towel.
As far as drying the car after a wash, I like California Water Blade followed by a waffle-style microfiber towel. I only need one towel for drying my Lexus ES300.
I still suspect the CWB of causing some scratching, however, but can't get anyone else on this board to confirm it. With CWB, be careful to only drag over VERY wet surfaces, and be very careful on curved surfaces. Also, be sure to rinse your CWB before each car wash, to avoid there being sand or dirt on the surface of the CWB.
I get about 4 coats per ounce for my 2002 Lexus ES300, which is a fairly large sedan with lots of paint area.
Most experienced users on this board report about 3-4 coats per ounce. The more experienced you become in using Zaino, the more coats you can get from one ounce.
When I first bought my car, I experimented with multiple coats of Z. I found that the diminishing return was at about 8 coats. After 8 coats, I could see no improvement.
Since then, I have settled on the following, lazy man's process:
Every October and April (twice per year), I put three coats of Z5 followed by 3 coats of Z2 on the car, with Z6 between coats. I don't usually do this all on the same weekend, and don't always need ZFX.
The rest of the year, I wash the car once per week with Z7. Sometimes I follow the Z7 wash with Z6, but not all the time. I live in the desert, where the weather is pretty nice all year long. The worst conditions here are brutal sun in the summer and blowing sand.
The advantage of the climate I live in is that I don't have to do the entire Z process at once. Throughout the year, I can put a coat of Z on the car, or even do a partial coat (ie. Z trunk, hood, and roof only) as I see fit.
I've been using the "Absorber" synthetic chamois for many years. I've been pleased with the way it dries my cars. It also is super absorbent while not harming the finish. It's easy to keep clean...just pop it into the washer and put it bakc in it's container while still damp.
While I'll probably stick with the Absorber for drying, I may want to look at microfiber for removal of Zaino. Up unitl this point, I've only used 100% cotton towels to remove the "Z". How do the microfiber towels compare to 100% cotton towels for Z removal?
The microfiber certainly looks like a less expensive alternative to the towels.
However if Zaino will keep it looking in mint condition I have no problem paying for it. Also how long does it last? My cars usually get washed once a week (more in the winter)
I doubt if I'll ever use anything but Zaino. My wife has a 1977 light ivory MB 300D, and I've applied Zaino -- Z-1, then Z-3 (for non-clearcoat paint) for three years. Its finish is stunning! People keep trying to buy the car when my wife drives it.
I might mention that both cars are garaged almost full time, and that undoubtedly helps the shine and finish. But the Z is more durable than any product I've ever used, and I've been retired for a few years now. Previously I used NuFinish, but it has some abrasives and isn't nearly as durable as Zaino.
Hope this helps.
I've been using Meguiars Gold Class Wash without any problems...I don't want to switch unless it's really necessary.
Since you don't really know what's in somebody's car wash, why not use the product designed to enhance the polish and not degrade it. There are some comments that Z7 wash actually helps the shine, but I doubt that. What I do know is that it is a great car wash, and in over 2 years, I have had no problems nor any desire or inclination to try something else.
I doubt that the Gold Class stuff you are using will harm the Zaino finish, but when that bottle is empty, you really should give the Z7 a try. And if you order a bottle when you order the other stuff, the incremental shipping charge will be insignificant.
I'd say there was something to the rumor.
http://www.autopia.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1549- 5&highlight=analysis
Car Wash Chemical Analysis
For my college ChemLab, I had to analyze a product of my choosing and I chose Zaino Bros.' Z7 Show Car Wash. There will be some more in depth stuff later, this is just the portion I have done so far:
Zaino Z7
For the Z7 test, I tested for pH, UltraViolet Protection, and surface tension interuption. Also I scanned for product remains after rinse.
pH = 7.0, dead even. This means that it is completely neutral, just as Zaino states in its advertising. This was true when prepared in solution with Distilled Water, as well as a water sample I took from the exact same hose I use to wash my cars with at home.
The UltraViolet protection in Zaino actually came out to an SPF factor of 45, not 40. However, this protection diminished quickly (I suspect that this is only due to the trace ammounts of polish in the wash, that the polish itself would have higher durability rating.)
As far as surface tension interruption, the zaino did quite the job of beading up pure H2O after being rinsed and dried on a glass surface. The beading was however easilly interrupted by the use of some very diluted (.01% acidic by molar volume) distilled vinegar. Again, this likely due to the mere trace ammounts of polish in the wash.
One surprising fact however: There WAS a trace ammount of soap left after rinsing and drying the piece. I happened to have with me a bottle of Z6, so I tried using this out of curiousity to see if these trace ammounts would be removed - they were. (Z6 btw is 6.5 pH acidic.) These trace ammounts explain precisely why the surface looks so much better after a wash AND QD, instead of just a wash.
Thanks!
Brad
And now that it is actually almost and just about SPRING, its time to order some more Z5 and Clay. Ah, spring!
Got one coat of Z5 on both cars. Next weekend, I'll follow up with Z2.
Anyone using the "microfiber" towels to remove Z2/Z5 after application? Any better/worse than using cotton towels?