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Volkswagen Jetta Brakes and Rotors

I have a '99 new body jetta, vr6, standard, with about 116k miles. About 2 years ago the brake rotors and pads were replaced by my mechanic b/c there was grooving on the rotors and a noticeable pulsing in the steering wheel when the brakes were applied. About 5 months later, the same symptoms appeared.

Befuddled, my mechanic thought perhaps defective rotors were installed. Genuine VW parts were not used. Because he was very skeptical, and had never seen rotors fail that quickly, he looked for any other brake related problems. They changed a brake line, and one other thing I cannot remember, but had explained to me that every possible thing that could be changed/fixed was the 2nd time they changed the rotors and pads again. He questioned my braking style. However, my argument was why would I not need rotors for the first 7 years of my car's driving history with me, have them replaced and then have my braking style make the rotors fail about 6 months later. Driver error didn't seem to make sense.

So...Here I am now with an appt. to change the rotors again, this time using genuine VW rotors. I am feeling like this is a bandaid approach and have fears that even with the VW rotors, I will end up with the same pulsating when the brakes are applied. The pulsating always starts out small and barely noticeable, as it progressively gets worse and worse. Someone suggested going to a new mechanic but I have been loyal to this shop b/c they are good guys and I have never had trust issues with them. The first time I paid for a full repair. The second time they only charged me for the parts. I do not know what they plan to do for this 3rd rotor replacement as far as the bill but I would be nervous to start somewhere new and the dealer's hourly charges are outrageous.

Any thoughts on what is going on with my braking system? Thanks! Kim
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Comments

  • patpat Posts: 10,421
    Welcome to CarSpace. :)
  • jetta7jetta7 Posts: 17
    Check the ABS system, if you have ABS
    Al
  • I have a 2005 Jetta. At 40,000 miles I'm having to replace the rear brakes a second time. I've never had to do the fronts. My mechanic says this is how the german cars go. They brake harder on the rear brakes than the front. Having been a mechanic for years, I'm a bit skeptical. As far as I know no car in the world brakes that way.
    So, am I wrong when I think this is not proper brake wear? And if so, any ideas.
  • jetta7jetta7 Posts: 17
    There has to be a problem with the brakes. If you didn't buy the car new, perhaps the incorrect type pads were installed. I have a 2003 Jetta Station Wagon, TDI, and I just changed the pads for the first time, at 75,800, and still had plenty of pad left. I also changed the rotors, since it was cost effective.
    I hope this helps in some way.
    Al
  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Posts: 3,855
    I was told the same thing, that VWs tend to need rear brakes before fronts. Can't yet say if this has proven true for us as have not had to do brakes yet.
  • I'm the original owner of a 2002 GLX VR6. I just put rear brakes on at 95,000 miles. The fronts are still 70-80%. This car sees alot of highway miles and that saves the pads. Jetta rear brakes always go first, though.
  • homerkchomerkc Posts: 113
    I was told the same thing about "German cars" by the dealer where I bought my 2007 Jetta (brake dust from rear wheels was excessive.) Since that's NOT how front wheel cars work, with their high front weight bias, I took my car to another dealer. They spoke with VW and found that the rear calipers were bad - on some number of cars - and replaced mine with new and improved parts. It now works fine. Don't know if that was a problem in 2005 as well, but you may want to ask your dealer.
  • I took my 2006 Jetta TDI in for regular check at 11000 miles. I was informed that the rear disc brake pads were 70% worn already. I said "that is a bit premature isn't it"? They didn't really say it was or not and did tell me that it would cost $340 approximately for a brake job on the rear. I too though that most of the percentage of braking force was on the front and not the rear. My brakes have squeaked at least once a day. When I go to stop for the first or second time after just starting out on a drive, the brakes make a horrible noise sometimes. After driving through some switch-backs in the mountains, I can hear the rear brakes trying to slow me down on each curve with what sounds like a grinding noise. And there is way more brake dust on the rear then the front. So is this all normal? Before this car I had a 2004 New beetle TDI and it did have a dragging rear caliper that needed replaced early. what's the difference between the two brake systems besides the front wheel drive vs rear wheel drive and the Jetta out weighs the Beetle by 220 lbs? I drove both cars in the same manner. Is it possible that the brakes are under engineered as in the case for 1999 Chevy Suburbans where the brake was not capable of handling the weight of the vehicle and would wear prematurely?
  • jetta7jetta7 Posts: 17
    I Changed all four brake rotors and brake pads on my 2003 Jetta station wagon, TDI, Diesel, at 75,800 miles, and still had plenty of pad left. I decided to change the rotors, only because the old ones were badly rusted in the fin area, which helps to cool the rotors. I got the four rotors and pads from Advance Auto Parts at a cost of $197.24, with no core charge. Advance Auto Parts will sell you the special tool kit to install the pads, and when you have done the repairs, they will buy back the tool at full price, essentially, it is a tool loan.
    If you have used up the pads in as little as 11,000 miles, one of two things have occurred; 1. You did not need new pads, or 2. There is a malfunction of the brake system.
    I hope this helps you.
    Recommendation: Always have the mechanic show you the condition of the pads, or any other part, while it is still on the vehicle. You can also do a visual inspection by looking at the brake caliper through the rim, or from under the vehicle.
  • Thanks for your advice Jetta7. Today before getting your advice via this site, I had taken my Jetta to its 9am appointment and discussed the problem with the service manager and he said they have know about the rear brake problem for 2 months now and agreed to replace the pads and rotors for free under warrantee, NO PROBLEM. Boy was I happy. We will see if we have anymore problems in the future with the brakes. Thanks again for your advice. By the way my service manager also said that the brake % ratio is approx 60% (front) and 40% (rear) at this time.
  • For anyone that is having issues with their MKV JETTA/RABBIT/GTI, the braking systems in most german cars rely mostly on the rear brakes to stop the car. When VW released the fifth generation models of the Jetta, Rabbit, and GTI, some of the vehicles had either faulty rear brake assemblies or the emergency brake on the vehicle was not adjusted to the rear braking system correctly. The fifth generation vw models will go through rear brake pads in about 25k miles, where as the front pads will last 60k miles and further. The rear brake calipers are gripping the rotors in the rear too hard and are sometimes dragging. This partly has to do with the emergency brake, which is stupidly attached to the rear brake cylinder. If you pull up too hard on the emergency brake, the rear brake calipers will grip the rear rotors too firmly and possibly re-adjust the brake pads to be closer to the rotor, therefore leaving you with a shorter brake pad life and some annoying sqweaking noises from the rear. Your dealer can adjust this for you, but try to not use your emergency brake at all. If you own a manual transmission, put the car in first or second gear and then turn the car off, thus allowing the first gear to hold the car in place. If you must use your emergency brake, pull up on it slowly and allow it to click a few times, but it should never be as high up as a 45 degree angle. I hope this helps anyone. If you have any questions about this, post back. I am very knowledgeable about VW/Audi products, so feel free to ask questions.
  • Can I ask which dealer you went to? I'd like to know that so if my local dealer tells me to pi55 off, I can contact them. Thx.
  • Sweet! Thanks Roy, that was quick. I'm contacting that dealer today, everybody. I'll get the VW service bulletin number for this problem so the rest of you can take that number to the dealer and get your brakes fixed.

    I have a 2006 Jetta, and my front pads have 75% pad left, while the rear are cutting rotor.

    Mileage? 65,000.... but 50,000 of those are all highway miles without me stepping on the brakes. In reality, I have about 20,000 or less equivalent city miles on the car. Brakes should last at LEAST 50,000, as evidenced by my 'faster wearing' front pads at 75% pad left.

    And I noticed someone mention rear brakes wear faster on 4 wheel disc cars. They're not supposed to. Proof? Look at the front brakes on a Jetta. They have a brake wear sensor attached to the computer with a wire coming right off the pad. No such thing on the rear. VW expects the front pads to wear first.
  • Roy....Apparently, the EBrake is designed in such a way, that the more you crank on the brake, the farther the adjusters go.

    For those that don't know what I mean, rear brakes (that have the Emergency Brake) have a mechanical adjustment that pushes the brake piston out more and more as the rear brakes wear. On older drum brakes, each time you put the car in reverse and hit the brakes, a little lever comes down and pushes against a sprocket, which turns a bolt, which pushes the shoes out more. However, with the old drum brakes, if the pads hadn't yet worn down yet, the little lever wouldn't hit the little sprocket, so the pads wouldn't be pushed farther out until ready.

    Apparently on the VW (and maybe other) rear disc brakes, it adjusts each time you put the Ebrake on, and the more you crank on the handle, the more it adjusts the pads out. I'm not positive of that, but sure enough.

    I've taken to putting the Ebrake on just 2 clicks. That has held the car with the clutch pushed down, even on a hill.

    It looks like everyone will get a full 50,000 minimum out of the front pads. Mine have a ton of pad left, with 65K on the car. (Highway, mind oyu...) Both Autozone and Advance have lifetime rear pads for less than $30, and it takes 30 minutes to change the pads each side, so I'll just replace them every 50K for a one-time cost of $30.

    What VW really needs to do, is start putting wear sensors on the back, and wire them in series with the front pad sensors. If the rear brakes wear first, that's where the sensor should be. I smell a recall.... the brakes are a major safety component.
  • Also.... the bolts that hold on the rear caliper mount to the hub.....NOT the bolts that hold the caliper to the caliper hub..... take a #19 'triple square' driver. (#19 star driver) according to the dealer.

    The caliper mount needs removed to remove the rear rotors.

    I don't know where to buy one yet, but it is NOT a torx driver. Don't attempt to use a torx, or you will destroy the bolt.
  • Alright. Talked to the service manager at the dealer in Tenn. There is no service bulletin yet, but 'every VW dealer in the country' should be well aware of the problem, says he.

    The problem is three fold:

    1. VW feels the brake pad material doesn't have enough metal in it. I've seen the pad, and it looks like it has a lot MORE metal than other pads, but spectrum analyze the pad I didn't.
    2. The emergency brake is maladjusted from the factory.
    3. People are cranking on the EB too much. 2,3 clicks max, or the adjusters will push the pad too far out.

    They have been replacing the rear brakes for ALL CUSTOMERS with this problem.

    I'm calling my dealer.....
  • Hey John, I did forget to mention that they did not have a service bulletin yet but they were still taking care of the problem. I am wondering, the rear pads should be the same ones in the front and I wonder if the front will ever give me problems. I was never told about the EB being set to hard that I can remember, so I guess I will be careful with that as well. John thanks for your inputs on this matter. keep in touch....Roy
  • Has anyone found out where to pick up the "#19 star driver" to remove the brake carrier yet. I asked the dealer and of course that have no idea where to get one. I've asked Snap-on and Northern Tools and so are no response on it. Any one else have any luck?
  • jetta7jetta7 Posts: 17
    You can rent a brake tool kit from Advance Auto Parts. This is done by buying the kit, usually about $100, and when you finished, you can return the kit for a full refund. The kit includes the special piston presses, star drives, and various other tools. Other parts stores may do the same. It does not hurt to check with them.
  • Can anyone tell me if the rear brakes that are wearing down prematurely is a factory defect? And how long VW delarship has known about this problem? Also, if they knew of this defect should they have let vw certified pre-owned car sell without dicloseing this face?
  • I was told by to dealers in my area that the not a defect. The VWs were said to be set up with more rear braking instead of the front braking that everyone is use to in the states. This is why they are able to sell the certified cars without saying anything about it. I just wish that they would have used pads with more surface area fro the rears so they would last a bit longer.
  • I mentioned to my dealer about the information I found on the web about the jetta haveing a premature wear pattern and he fixed my brakes for free. Just found out last night. Well, I should say he was first going to charge me 260 bucks (his Cost) because I raised hell that I had to replace my brakes and I just bought the car 2 months ago. Then I told him about the info. on the web about jetta's and the premature brake wear and he called me later and said he was going to fix them for free. He was going to put it under a defective brake warranty of some kind. He also told me he got some kind of e-mail about the brake wear problem. I still pretty pissed off that they didn't say anything about this problem before I bought the car. I would have cut my offer by 1000 at least. Now I get to look forward to replaceing my rear brakes every 15000 miles...20000....10000miles...Anyway, I was told not to use my parking brake if I did not have to. The parking brake readjusts the bake brakes and they rub against the rotor even more (bad technical explaination)....I guess vw didn't want a recall.... :sick:
  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Posts: 3,855
    We have 24,000 miles on our 2005.5, just had tire rotation yesterday and no mention was made of needing brakes any time soon. We generally do not use the parking brake, though.

    Of course normal brake wear is not directly related to miles traveled, it has to do with the amount of stopping you do no how far you go.
  • Hi there
    I’m changing rear break pads on my 2003 Jetta
    I’m trying to press the break cylinder back with a c clamp
    To make space for the new pads, no luck!!
    Anyone knows how make this happen?
    HELP!!
    Pete
  • You can't use a C-clamp on the rear calipers. You need to get the brake tool with the pins to 'dial' the piston back. If you try to force it with a C-clamp you can really ruin the seal. AutoZone, PepBoys, Advance, etc. should have this tool but if it's the same as the 2006 you might have to look a little bit harder for it.
  • tmycakestmycakes Posts: 2
    John-
    At the time, I took my car to Volkswagen of Orange Park, a suburb of Jacksonville, FL. My service advisor there was Paul Bergeron. He dealt with that issue the entire time I had problems with my rear brake system. They had finally fixed them and they were not squeaking at all. Two months went by and they started squealing slightly again, but not nearly as bad as before. The dealership manager and service manager told me on my 12th visit to the dealer within a month that they will most likely have to give the car back to Volkswagen of America as a defect. Volkswagen of America bought the car back for exactly what I paid for it and gave me complimentary scheduled maintenance up until 25,000 miles because I had done all my factory scheduled maintenance with them up until 25,000 miles. Owner loyalty counts! This was my 7th VW product in 10 years. I purchased a new 2007 GTI to replace the rabbit. This GTI does not have break issues. I currently have 24,000 miles on this car and I still have at least 85% of my rear brake pads left. Some of the new MKV Jettas, Rabbits, and GTI's have the rear brake devil in them. Some don't. But make sure you don't get one, because it flat out sucks.
  • steven39steven39 Posts: 636
    hello folks,i have been thinking about purchasing a 08 vw jetta but learning about these brake issues with the jetta iam begining to have my doubts...i don't want to have to keep haveing rear brake jobs every 20,000 miles costing upwards of 300.00 a pop when i could have another model car that doesn't need the rear brakes replaced so often...although i do like the jetta's handling and saftey features....
  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Posts: 3,855
    3 years and 25,000 miles on ours (2005.5) and at last tire rotation no mention was made of brake wear. I think some who had premature brake wear indicated that it was from using the parking brake, which we rarely do.
  • rshaker90rshaker90 Posts: 6
    My wife has 35,000 miles on her 2005.5 Jetta and the rear brakes had to be replaced and she never used the parking brake. The front how every are still good. I think it basically comes down to every two years or so you need to change a set of brakes on any car no matter if it's the front set or rear set so I think it comes down to which car you rather have and than you can deal with it. If you do brakes yourself, you can just put pads on the rear without having to cut or replace the rear rotors only.... don't recommend doing this with the front because of the pulse you can get in the brake pedal. But only go thought two sets of pads with a set of rear rotors. All in all the Jetta is a really good car an the brake issue.... I think it's just set to use more rear braking so that is why the wear faster than another car's rears would.
  • handimanhandiman Posts: 6
    Hey Steven39, you might still want to consider the Jetta. The problem with my rear brakes had nothing to do with the E-brake either, since I don't use it much at all. read about my story in earlier messages and you will find that If you make a stink about it with the dealership who services your car, they should take care of the problem like my guys did. My wife's Jetta is a TDI '06 model sold as an 07, brand new and right now it gets 42mpg combined driving. It really is a good car. We got about 21000 miles on it at this time. Holler if you have any other questions.....Roy
  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 19,826
    Barring manufacturers/ oem defects, (should be still under warranty) she might want to change the way she brakes. She should firmly apply the brakes and not PRE brake, as the pre braking makes the boosters in the rear work harder transfering way more of the braking action to the rears- when it should be the fronts.
  • trepinetrepine Posts: 15
    Hi all,
    I'm new addition to this forum and here's my case--new 2008 jetta, 3-4months old, 4200 miles, both rear brakes completely GONE. Grinding metal on metal. Rotors damaged. Locking up and jumped the median b/c my brakes caused me to lose control.
    This is not a routine overuse problem nor maintenance problem unless I have used my brakes to slow me down as I reentered the atmosphere from space on my last trip to the space station.
    Mechanic at the dealership tried to strongly insinuate that this was my fault as the driver because I used the emergency brake for parking and that I didn't downshift as much as he thought I should have been.
    My car is in the shop right now being fixed so I'll have to update this thread after they tell me what they think.
    I have researched this extensively and most cars, including most VWs, don't change brake pads remotely often and NOBODY...NOBODY...has to do it at 4200 miles.
    If I end up having to fix the brakes in another 10000 miles as it seems others have had to do on this forum then it's a lemon--no two ways about it.
    Not happy about this and If you're reading this I would make a point of asking your dealer when you're shopping and immediately seeking service for squeeking/grinding/squealing brakes. (I thought mine was just a rock and it was only grinding for the last week)
    Good luck,
    will let you know
    Tom
    :confuse:
  • steven39steven39 Posts: 636
    thanks tim for your post, i myself was considering a 08 jetta for my next car purchase...however,i have been reading owners reviews on this website for the 05-08 model year jetta's trying to get a good idea of the jetta's reliabilty...it's obvious now that the only thing i have learned during my research is that i need to avoid the jetta like the plague...issues such as premature brake wear such as your brakes issues,electrical problems,ect.....the premature brake wear seems to be a common thing with all jettas and they are not cheap to replace...iv'e owned cars in the past where i didn't have to replace the brakes for 80,000.00 miles let alone have to replace the rear brakes at under 5000 miles as in tim's case....steve
  • handimanhandiman Posts: 6
    Tom, If you care to, read what I wrote starting way back at message # 9 of 35 and the responses from others after mine. There is a lot of helpful info here. I believe that the brakes that were shipped on the car new, were defective as with many other Jetta's. Since 11000 miles, I have not had any other problems with my rear brakes. It is an on going problem with the new brakes and of course should be taken care of by the dealership ASAP. For free mind you. I have not had any other problems other than a couple little things and now I'm on 20699. The car has been doing just fine. I personally give it high ratings and am still very happy with it. And it really matters whether or not how your dealer's service department treats you and the problem. Let me know if you got any questions......Roy
  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Posts: 3,855
    According to Forbes, Jetta is one of the "Best Small Cars For The Buck" and CR Reliability Rating is "Good".

    http://www.forbes.com/home/2008/05/02/best-small-cars-forbeslife-cx_jm_0502cars.- html
  • trepinetrepine Posts: 15
    I like the car don't get me wrong and I read every entry in this thread before I posted.
    This is a design flaw/defect though, no two ways about it, and that raises some big concerns for me as a car owner.
    The fact that there is a forum thread about my problem is proof of principle.
    The other fact that bothers me is my service people's response--no brakes burn out from wear...no matter what you are doing..at 4200miles.
    I explicitly asked them too if there was a known problem like this with jettas/VWs and they denied it, but took me about 2 secs to find this theme on the internet.
    VW is notorious for their great service and this should be addressed in that manner.
    Oh, and if it is related to your brakes VW may want to be a little more concerned since it's a safety issue and not just a cosmetic one.
    I want to see what they say after they take a look at it and get back to me--that will tell me whether or not I'll be keeping/buying a VW in the future.
    more to follow
    Tom
  • handimanhandiman Posts: 6
    Tom, I agree with you 100% and I don't want to seem like I make light of the situation either. It is a flaw just like in my '99 Suburban in which the brake system mainly the calibers were too small to do the job. I too am interested in the response of your service people. Thanks for the feedback and your input.....Roy
  • trepinetrepine Posts: 15
    An update
    So I talked to my dealer service representative today and here's what they (HOY-FOX in El Paso, TX) said:
    "It's driver habit" that caused your brakes to wear prematurely and we aren't paying for anything.
    You need to pay 270$ more to fix your brake pads and replace both rotors
    and everything else was working perfectly.
    It's your fault and we aren't responsible."

    Needless to say, I'm flabbergasted.
    I said before how I felt they were trying to find a way to blame me for this and that they insinuated that it was my fault right from the beginning...well, now they've made it official.
    And for the record, they stated this is what VOLKSWAGEN told them not them as the dealers.

    When I mentioned this forum, the other people who reported early brake failure on the web, the other people who drive the exact same route I do to work (which is over a 5000 ft altitude mountain pass called Transmountain Drive x about 15miles each way) who don't have brake problems, the other 3 manual transmission cars I've had that didn't burn out their brakes, and the fact that no mechanic that has seen this car nor any of the lifelong mechanic friends/family that I know have ever heard of a car completely burning out its brakes at 4200 miles, they reassured me that I was wrong and that is was my fault and that they wouldn't pay for it.

    Furthermore, they told me I was wrong to not bring it to them immediately upon hearing the brakes grinding--even though I only heard it for 1 week and by the time it was grinding it was ALREADY metal on metal and that I did call to make an appt and they told me it would be 1 week for me to see them even though I described having brake problems.

    Then they said that I screwed up by taking it to Meineke first. Meineke about 1mile from my house and I pass it on the way home every day. When I took it to them, I was still convinced it was just a rock, after all "it was still practically brand new and ONLY HAD 4200 miles". I figured i'd just get a quick look and hopefully fix a simple problem and when they took off my rear wheels they (the whole shop of mechanics) couldn't believe that I had metal on metal in both rear brakes. They stated they'd never seen this before even in cars with 10000 miles. I made the mistake of letting Meineke replace the brake pads right then for 150$ out of pocket already before I got my act together and called Hoy-Fox and told them that I was bringing my car to them THAT SAME DAY no matter when they would see it because it wasn't safe to drive. I brought the car to the VW dealer the same day I had a mechanic tell me that I had serious problems with my brakes...not a rock. I actually thought they might even reimburse me for already buying the brake pads, dumb ol' me--they felt that having Meineke inspect my car and change the brake pads should void the warranty, which they were already saying didn't cover my brakes anyway. That's service huh!

    So, I have lots of sympathy from people who aren't the ones working for Hoy Fox, Volkswagen, or the auto service industry in general, and I don't have a lot of appreciation for how I've been treated so far.

    I complained directly to VOLKSWAGEN on their hotline at 1-800-822-8987. They are looking into it directly and I expect to know more from them tomorrow.

    I've challenged them, and ask you all too, to come up with another example of a car with total metal on metal brake wear in 4200 miles that they think is from driver habit...excluding monster trucks and Indy 500 cars I guess. How far do you think you could drive without ruining the brakes with the parking brake on?

    Not sure what I can do now.

    I think they should pay for new brakes and I've told them that directly.
    If they do, then I'm still not sure what the future will hold--maybe I can ask them to plough Transmountain drive flat so that my driving habits don't endanger my car's health. If the brakes burn out every 4months, ...assuming that I don't die in a fiery wreck with no brakes,...then that should be about 250-500$ a pop.
    I am looking into my options for legal action and contract violations on the part of the lease, but this is almost always a losing battle it seems.
    If Volkswagen decides that they aren't going to fix this car, then I'm not sure even more.
    But that would be one step closer to recommending to the known universe every chance I get not to get involved with VW.
    This company is renowned for its service?
    :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:
    Tom
  • bobtravbobtrav Posts: 3
    Do they have break problems TOOOOOOOOOO :)
  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Posts: 3,855
    Some people have had premature brake wear on the Jetta many (most, I presume) have not. If you buy one and do have a problem, certainly do not go anywhere but the dealer. As the post above indicates, it'll be difficult to get any consideration if you have had someone else work on the brakes and then go to the dealer...which while unfortunate for the person who posted that, is understandable from the perspective of VW.
  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 19,826
    Indeed, I have a 2003 TDI Jetta with 108,000 miles and the pads & rotors look easily to go 200,000 on the rears and maybe 180,000 fronts. (more on both hopefully). We do not pre brake and have even had the brake and clutch system bled. :shades:
  • trepinetrepine Posts: 15
    "understandable from the perspective of VW'?
    did you read my post?
    1. taking it to Meineke instead of directly to the dealer was a mistake, I agree, but what was I supposed to do?
    2. does this negate the damage that had been done before I went to Meineke in any way?
    3. does this explain the damage to my brakes in any way?
    4. when I call to make an appt with my dealer and they say it's going to be 1 week, even when I tell them that my antilock brakes are locking up and I'm jumping the median into oncoming traffic, does that seem appropriate?
    5. does the fact that when I talk to the people at Meineke, professional car mechanics, and tell them that VW is telling me this is all my fault b/c I'm a bad driver makes them consider this as much [non-permissible content removed] as I do?
    6. I explained why I took it to Meineke in my previous post and I think it made perfect sense--what I shouldn't have done was have them do any replacements or work on the car at my own expense...but since VW considers their car to be in perfect working condition in all respects except the drive, all I did was give the dealer one more EXCUSE, yes just an excuse, to wimp out on their end of my contract. That's all Hoy-Fox has done for me is to work on every possible angle to say it's my fault--what about the other 15 year old car I had for 4 years driving back and forth over transmountain that never needed any work on it's breaks, what about ever other driver in El Paso who goes over this route and doesn't need break work?

    seriously, I'm a big boy...if I did something wrong...tell me but since every sane person I've talked to about this with any knowledge of car functioning thinks I couldn
    't have possibly caused this damage this much this fast no matter what I was doing...maybe VW ought to reconsider.
    thanks
    still waiting for the final word from VW headquarters
    Tom
  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 19,826
    Your item #1 was why almost every corporation pays HUGE lawyers fees. As soon as you let anybody other than VW correct the situation, you have legally let VW off the hook. So as a 1b. you could have had an alternative shop give a second opinion. It also didnt fall into the category of just submit what you paid a third party vendor and VW will reimburse you what you paid. This is not to mean that it will be any easier to get VW to do anything. If it were me I would have flat bedded it to the VW dealer and ask them what loaner they would give you free for a delay not of your own making. Funny how stuff like that gets them to focus.
  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Posts: 3,855
    Yes, I did read your post and I was essentially highlighting this part:

    I made the mistake of letting Meineke replace the brake pads right then for 150$ out of pocket already before I got my act together and called Hoy-Fox and told them that I was bringing my car to them THAT SAME DAY no matter when they would see it because it wasn't safe to drive.

    As you indicate this was mistake. My post basically said to another poster "don't make this mistake, if you have a problem with the brakes". Now you have VW and your dealer looking at a car that Meinke has already done brake work on. From their perspective, this has given them a reason (or excuse, if you prefer) to have some suspicion about this situation.

    Of course, assuming you do not ride the brakes or drive with the parking brake on, it certainly is a problem to have brakes last less than 5K mi. In addition, the dealer mechanic that blamed using the emergency brake for parking and not downshifting is an idiot. Many believe that using brakes for stopping is preferable to using the transmission, besides don't they have the same brakes on automatics. It also is rather ridiculous to say the parking brake (aka. emergency brake) is not to be used for parking.
  • steven39steven39 Posts: 636
    folks,my girlfriend who owns a 07 jetta recently needed the rear brakes replaced at 22,000 miles...she was suprised that the rear brakes needed replacing at only 22,000 since she has owned other vehicles that did not need new rear brakes till well over 50,000 miles....the service advisor at the vw dealership told her that the jetta is designed to have the rear brakes and rotors replaced every 20,000 miles...
    if i was in the market for a brand new VW and was told about the rear brake issues that would have killed the deal for me as far as i am concerned......
  • trepinetrepine Posts: 15
    The final verdict is in!!!!
    and it's crap.
    Volkswagen, and my dealer HOY-FOX in El Paso, TX have both stated that my 2008 Jetta car breaks have worn out completely to metal grinding metal in 4200 miles is my, and only my, fault.
    They officially told me that because I drive over a mountain pass that is 5000 ft elevation (with probably a 1000-1500 change in elevation up and over the path) and because I must suck as a driver and ride my brakes and quote/unquote "not downshift enough" that I caused this to happen.
    No warranty.
    No manufacturer defect.
    No problems with my brakes otherwise and everything was working "perfectly".

    No acknowledgement in any way shape or form by HOY-FOX or the National 1-800 complaint line of hearing of anyone else [this meaning everyone else on this forum at least] of having any problems with rear brakes on a Jetta wearing early. I specifically asked them if Volkswagen had received any problems like mine (early rear brake wear on Jettas) and they stated they had no database, other records, etc. about this. AND they were not able to explain why I could find other people with these concerns and they didn't know about them nor why other people might be having the same problem I was even though they 1) weren't me with my driving habits and 2) weren't taking the same road I was apparently. (to me, the fact that anyone else has reported this problem immediately defeats their argument that this was my fault...that's why I bet they didn't acknowledge it)

    I'm disgusted.
    I've never been treated so poorly or ridiculously by a company in my entire life.

    Every person I have talked to that doesn't work for HOY-FOX or Volkswagen has stated that this is "unheard of", "preposterous", "insane", and frankly "not possible no matter how you're driving" including most people who know a whole lot more about cars than I do. But apparently everyone at HOY-FOX and Volkswagen are undaunted in their assessment, as the only ones who feel this is remotely reasonable, that it was my fault.

    Mind you, there is absolutely no proof that this is/was my fault. That's why I feel so perfectly free to badmouth this company. Prove me wrong. It seems that the tie, if that's what this could even possibly be construed as, maybe should go to the runner in a new car with spent brakes. When you weigh the cost of making the customer happy long term vs. telling the customer it must be their fault seems like a very simple business decision too.

    My recommendations for anyone on this forum or who reads this forum are as follows:
    1. avoid HOY-FOX at all costs
    2. avoid Volkswagen
    3. if you go to a car dealer (not an independent mechanic) don't tell them anything...they are looking for something to use against you to prevent them from honoring their warranty and making anything their expense--I don't think there is anything that you need to tell them--the experts--about what you are doing with your car. Stonewall them or lie...how are they going to know. Even if you know you haven't done anything...don't tell them a word. No matter what question they ask you say "all I do is drive back and forth to my good driver's award ceremony and to church...nothing else"
    4. don't even go for a "courtesy ride" with a mechanic or sales "assistant"--same reason as #3. This is a farce. They want to figure out what's wrong...let their expert drive the car.
    5. if you trust your dealer, then go directly to them...this was clearly a mistake on my part (of course this didn't help me one little bit in the end but that's my problem)
    6. if you are having problems with something serious--like brakes/engine/SAFETY issues then I'd talk to a manager level service person and only if you are getting your windshield wipers changed or something on par with this complexity level would I let the first line service "assistants" help you
    7,. If you own a Jetta--do not use the parking brake either for parking or emergencies; downshift at the expense of your clutch to save your brakes (much less expensive I guess to replace the transmission than the brakes right?); don't go over hills bigger than speed bumps; don't brake ever actually...these are apparently considered "bad driving habits" and "extraordinary wear and tear" beyond the standard use of this car and not covered by a warranty.

    My Plan:
    1. I plan on sending a complaint about Hoy-Fox to the Better Business Bureau--this won't help me but the next person they give the shaft to can use my case to help them.
    2. I plan on sending a formal complaint to the National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB) about Volkswagen and their apparent lack of recognition that 1) this is a clear safety issue and 2) that more than one person has apparently had this problem and yet Volkswagen doesn't seem to know this...or care to track it. If Volkswagen isn't keeping a database about this problem then I hope the NTSB will consider doing so.
    3. I'm going to tell everyone I know not to buy a Volkswagen and see how much my 270$ bill for new brakes on my new car that they felt I should pay might cost them in negative publicity about how they treated me.
    4. I want everyone on this forum and anyone who reads it to know that if they are ever hurt or know someone who gets hurt in a VW Jetta because of premature break wear that I'd be happy to be a witness in their case and tell their lawyers in painstaking detail how "my car did the same thing and the company blamed me" and "VW denied knowledge of other people having this problem". If this happens to one other person after me and they could have done something to avoid this problem, then me being a loudmouth blab now might be worth it.
    thank you all
    Tom :lemon:
  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Posts: 3,855
    Not sure if NTSB deals with such things, you might want to try NHTSA:

    http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/
  • homerkchomerkc Posts: 113
    My '07 Jetta was depositing a LOT of brake dust on the rear wheels when new. The wheels also were very HOT after driving, clearly due to dragging brake pads. The dealer who sold me the car told me "German cars use the read brakes more than fronts". Since that is nonsense on a front wheel drive car, I took the car to another dealer in town, who actually took the problem seriously. They admitted the brake dust was excessive, due to wear. After trying and failing once, they contacted VW, who told them there were defective rear calipers used. VW sent new calipers and the dealer replaced everything. Excessive dust gone, and my brakes work fine. Defective parts can slip into new cars - - you just want the dealer to fix the problem. (By the way, I recommend Baron VW in Kansas City. Excellent service.)
  • ndmike88ndmike88 Posts: 155
    My wife is looking to buy a Jetta this weekend. Maybe we better research this rear brake issue a little more. :confuse:
  • steven39steven39 Posts: 636
    DESTROY THE VW HUMANOIDS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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