2009 Toyota Camry

wwest

The "Oops" was intended as my way of saying I'm sorry for reading your post entirely "backwards" ("D" vs "4th"). So ignore my thoughts/suggestions.

exler

Thanks,notmybmw----I did your prescribed test and at 50 mph my vehicle shows about 1500 rpm. Do you have any thoughts if doing that TSB 0069-08 regarding the flash reprogramming will help this situation?--I know this TSB targets the 30-45 mph range where I also will get vibration at low acceleration( vehicle lugs). If I accelerate at a good pace through the shift points in "D" there is no problem or if I drive in "4". Did adding the 5th gear in this transmission cause this problem? My gas mileage is around 20-21 in the city and about 31 highway. I guess that is average. Thanks for your input. It is appreciated.

notmybmw

What I do is just "take matters into my own hands"....or "hand" as it were....and just give the shift leaver a little 'slap' to the left, which puts it into 4th gear (you'll SEE the engine speed increase slightly on the tach, AND no longer hear the 'grumbling' from the engine)......and when I hit the open road, just tap it back over to the right, back into 5th, to get that all important overdrive MPG advantage.

I've noticed my BMW does this all by itself (downshifts to 4th or even 3rd when it detects a drop in roadspeed, even though you are neither accelerating nor deccelerating.....is that a word?.......slowing down!) but I've learned to accept that the Camry just won't do a few things that the twice-as-expensive 325i will. (Like automatically aim the passenger side outside mirror down toward the curb when reversing...in order to prevent tire scuffing!!....then return to normal when put into Drive or Neutral.)

Trust those Krauts! The Japanese could do it, I'm sure.....probably DO on some upscale models....but you gotta limit the frills somewhere on a $20K family sedan. So, in a nutshell.....accept the technical limitations of the Toyota transmission engineering team.......and have fun doing some shifting for them!!!

Cheers.
Scotty

atb2

but you gotta limit the frills somewhere on a $20K family sedan. So, in a nutshell.....accept the technical limitations of the Toyota transmission engineering team.......and have fun doing some shifting for them!!!

Right on the mark IMHO. My '09 I4 auto has some of the same trans symptoms/behavior as mentioned throughout this forum. Although the shifting is not perfect, I remind myself to look at the whole picture (car, in this instance) and in that light, the car is superior to most others in the $$ range. I thought about getting the TSB loaded; here's my thought: since I've worked with/on computers for many years, I would hesitate modifying the factory software load. These issues were supposedly corrected in previous MY's and, once the TSB is applied, there's no going back. "NOTE: Software version 3.00.021 or later is required." and "Recalibrate ECM (PCM) Engine & Transmission" as stated in the TSB instructions. Careful what you wish for, it might not live up to what you're expecting. My car now has 4k miles. While pondering whether to have the TSB done, I decided to replace the factory air filter with a $19.99 Purolator from Pep Boys. That was about a thousand miles ago and I am convinced it acts more normal now and runs/shifts better. Could I be dreaming? Maybe, but don't think so and I feel better knowing the ECM (PCM) hasn't been plugged into by a tech that may or may not be experienced in this area.

wwest

"..my BMW...."

Is either RWD or R/AWD....

It would be patently unsafe for a FWD or F/AWD to automatically downshift at at, to, a level that might incur a significant level of engine compression braking, even insignificant should the roadbed be slippery..

kiawah

Take it back to the dealership with your symptoms, and tell them you found a copy of that TSB on the internet which sounds like it addresses the problem. They'll search their computer and hook your car up, and I'm sure they'll put the TSB on to resolve it. Your vehicle will run better and that lugging problem will be long forgotten. Takes about 1/2 hour, covered under warranty.

mcdawgg

Kiawah is right, and if you are nervous about changing the computer programming of the ECM, remember this: All the new Camrys coming off the line today have this new programming. Also, I have not read about anyone here or other websites that was not happy about having the TSB done. Please let us know how much better it drives after you have it done .

exler

Thanks, I will try that air filter remedy--also a Service Manager echoed your comment that doing that TSB could change the shift points to something one may not like. I would think your 09 would have all the new ECM's already done at the factory as I see they were available in 5-08 for previous models. I have an 08 built in 9-07. Any transmission , engine changes or style changes coming in the 2010's, anyone?

exler

I am going to re-question this Service Manager to get more exact detail --he says customers have returned after the TSB is done and they do not like the new shift points and he cannot change it back. I agree with your logic that the new Camrys have all had this done so it makes common sense that it is a good idea. I have spoken to the Managers at other dealers in the area and they have little idea of what I am talking about. I will keep you posted. Thanks for the input.

mcdawgg

Rumor is the 2010 may have a new 2.5 L I4 engine and 6 speed tranny.

cubssoxs

Yeah, I heard the 2010 camry will have that 2.5 L I4 engine that is in the 2009 RAV4.

waltchan

The engine has been confirmed by one of Toyota reps at Toyota headquarter, but not yet on the 6 speed transmission. See the 2010 Toyota Camry thread.

reechz

My local dealer is offering "employee pricing" this weekend for past customers.
Anyone have a clue as to what that means?
Is it a percentage off the invoice? nd if so, how much?

thanks

dmathews3

It means they suck you into buying their cars. NOne of those deals can mean much if you have a trade in as they just move the numbers around. They way the enconomy is now they should sell it to you for invoice and show you the invoice and they still make money on their roll backs.

jagger

Bought '09 Camry CE Thursday. My 5th Toyota, love the brand. Pulls to the left on all type road surfaces, in every lane at every speed. Does not pull to left consistently or with any pattern. Dealership says it's due to front wheel drive. Only one tire has power and mine must be the left tire. They performed 4 wheel realignment, no change. Red flag for me is the new car was housed in a dirt lot with a flat front left tire that was replaced before I bought it. I paid cash and am nervous the dealership will continue with the "its normal" dodge. It is scary to drive down the highway no knowing when it will decide to head off into the left lane. Suggestions are most welcome and appreciated.

Jagger

jagger

Just joined this forum to report my '09 Camry CE purchased this week also pulls to the left. I got it realigned and it still pulls to the left. Did you ever get your situation resolved?

Jagger

dmathews3

If this is your 5th Toyota aren't/weren't all Toyota's except their trucks front wheel drive. That there should be the factor that tells you that since you have had a few FWD's that the dealer is giving you BS and to fix it right and maybe you should also tell him that you didn't care for his BS and you will consider other places to do business next car. With his sales down about 35% and dropping ask him if he can afford you lose you next time around. With the economy in shambles you are in the drivers seat instead of your friendly Toyota dealer who isn't used to this drop in business. Also talk first with the sales manager/owner if availible first and have him go with you into the service department. With 50 million or more FWD's on the road do you think we would be happy with our cars doing what you say yours is doing. I may have had problems with some American cars I have bought but have found that the dealers do a better job of taking care of them then I ever got on the foreign cars I bought. The Foreign dealers have the attitude that they are doing you a favor by just working on your car.

jagger

thank you for your reply. I meet them tomorrow morning. I've left word with the manager and also plan to call Toyota Hq. altho this forum says they are not much help either. Wondered what all the pulling left problem might be, other than alignment issue. Glad I found this site.

Jagger

dmathews3

If it is pulling to the left with out using the brakes than it has to be an alignment issue of some kind. Had my Colorado Truck in for an alignment a couple years ago before I traded it and when I got it back it would wander toward the left. Took it back and according to the machine with me watching it was according to specs but the guy said that he would adjust it some and had it did away with most on a test drive. He adjusted a tiny bit more and all was well. Problem I felt was wife took it in because there was a slight brake squeal when stopping, but not all the time. They resurfaced the front brakes and told her she needed an alignment. PO'd me as the truck went down the highway for about a 1/2 mile without hands on steering and it stayed straight plus the tire wear was even. I still believe it was the old feed the woman a bunch of BO and told the service manager and my salesman that too. They credited my CC for the alignment.

notmybmw

I agree with dmathews....your dealer is screwing you over. "Only one tire has power"? What kind of [non-permissible content removed] is that? The dirt and the flat tire probably means your car was dropped or rammed or pranged or slammed or something while in transit cross country to the dealership. Just keep taking it back until the damn thing will track straight down any highway.

Toyota dealers are getting away with murder these days; give 'em hell in return.

kiawah

Most of the time this is an alignment issue, but it also could be a defective tire. Have them swap the tires from the front left to the front right (or you do it), to see if the symptoms change. You may start pulling to the right....in which case you now have proved one of the tires is bad.

motorcity6

Having owned 44 cars in my 75yrs, all Big3 except 2 Porsches, I occasionally do get interested in a Toy SE, due to it's firmer suspension..I do have a 02XLE-4 in the garage with 75k miles, along with a 09 Bullitt and 06 Pontiac GPGT, and am considering trading the 02 in on an 09..

The Toy belongs to another individual, however I cover all gas and maintenance costs. My disappointment is it's gas mileage which is only 2-3 additional mpgs than the 260 hp SC Pontiac..Idle vibration and drony accleration noise is not really a plus, but it is a 4-banger..Shift problems, alignment and vibration ailments plus shoddy overall construction are not the quality pluses along with the dealer lack of concern in trying to explain away problems without trying to address the situation.

Live in Venice,Fla and have only been to the local dealer twice for oil changes and observe the overall activity while waiting and they are quite busy, lots of paper moving..Let's face it, Toy has had a rapid growth and the dealerships are busy.\, however I believe the real quality products are the past models and the recent body redesign of the Camry was needed but has not enhanced some of its past quality achievements..

Back to the 02 XLE in my household, the fit and finsh along with overall workability of all systems is okay', however it's road manners are pitiful..sloppy and unacceptable..The car's condition is pristine, but the suspension is goosey, steering is vague, and the brakes are not worth much..

So before I talk my party into an SE, I would like to be somewhat assured that the current Toy product is worth pursuing. I don't need a mailbox full of TSBs to appease a poor product..I have been thru the repurchase cycle with one of the Big3 and they wrote out a check after 26k miles for the purchase price less $800 for mileage..No lawyers involved and they never drove the car, wasn't a bad car and I turned around and brought the same car only the current model and piled 80k quick miles on it, traded it for another one, same brand, and piles 120k miles on it.

The [non-permissible content removed] are somewhat protective in the repurchase of cars, and if the occasion arose it would be somewhat more involved.

Would appreciate any opinions and complaints on high mileage 2006,2007, and 2008 SEs..Are they still tight and reliable after 50k requiring only tires and brakes.??? Wheel alignments, if properly done at the factory are good for 100k unless the suspension has turned to slop due to cheap components..Struts on a std Camry are pure loosey/goosey, the old Buick ride, lots of travel and zero handling. The SE has sport suspension, and should be tight for 125k miles..

Let's hear...Thanks in advance..

notmybmw

Two words, buddy:

Go Nissan

dmathews3

One thing that always surprises me is the gas mileage GM pulls out of its big cars on the highway. They darn near match a Camry and are much bigger and heavier. My 94 Deville with Northstar 325HP got 29 on the highway with the cruise at 70.

jagger

Follow up on my '09 CE Camry pulling to the left... Went to the dealer this morning armed with all of your observations/suggestions and guess what!! Unbelievably they let me switch Camry's to another '09 CE of my choosing and gave me several freebies, such as APP interior/exterior protection, window tinting, mud flaps, bumper guard, MP3 connection, keychain (whoop) and gave me a loaner car while the detailing, tinting, etc. is being done. I pick it up tomorrow. You guys ROCK!

Jagger

dmathews3

Now that is something the just don't happen............unless they knew something happened to the other car. Makes you wonder don't it.

cubssoxs

Well I have 09 SE I4 with about 6k miles on it and it seems like a solid car with a firmer suspension than of course the the other trims. Also, its a pretty quiet four cylinder. I didnt go for the V6 because it was more money of course and it has gotten mixed reviews.

motorcity6

Too much torque steer!!!! on FWD models...Not excited about the French connection..Better looking overall than the Toys, however the value isn't there. IMHO................

motorcity6

Good work, they got the LEMON smell, and wanted that car off the road....

motorcity6

Keep the Vin# off of the rejected car and run a CarFax in six months to see who the lucky owner is.

mcdawgg

Since you saw it with a flat, I'm sure it was damaged in transit, or while unloading off the truck at the dealer.

Then, they gave you a different one without too much hassel, so they know what really happened. I'd be VERY careful of this dealer!!!

notmybmw

When you say "too much torque steer".....I think you're thinking of the 'bad old days'.
See the entry/mid level sedan full review on page http://www.nicoclub.com/reviews/sedan-review.shtml which ends with:
The Outcome

The Nissan was easily the number one choice for me. It combines awesome power and style with a touch of class. While it is a fair amount more than the other two, you truly do get what you pay for. It has a nice balance of weight, so it handles well, and all in all is a blast to drive. The cornering capabilities and acceleration put this far above my expectations. The extra options are really a great feature as well. I liked the back-up camera, and appreciate HID lighting.

wwest

Yes, with the adoption of a VSC, stability/yaw control system, a stearing wheel rotational position sensor is required. So now DBW can be used, selectively used, to reduce engine torque, "invisibly" reduce engine torque, in lower gear ranges (high roadbed torque conditions) or in a tight accelerating turn when torque stear would have the most adverse effect.

motorcity6

Nice looking products......period....We assume you are interested in a Toy???

jz888

I have an issue with my 2009 Camry LE. When the outside temperature is low (<45F), the re-circulation button will turn off by itself to let outside air in every a couple of miles, regardless if I have the heater and/or fan on. I have to keep pushing the button to keep the cabin warm. This does not happen when the outside temperature is higher than 45F. It becomes very annoying. Is is normal ? None of the cars I have ever driven before did that.

atb2

It must be in the software - my '09 LE does the same thing. I just adjust the temp control up a few notches to compensate for the colder air mix. Maybe one of the Gurus out there knows why it defaults to non-recirc..?

dapperdon

Hi everyone.
This board has so much useful advice!.
I have a dealer that would like to sell me a 2009 LE V6
He sent me the build sheet and on it says 2/20/08 for the ship date.
Does that mean the car has been on the lot since March 08?
Should I be concerned?
What about TSBs everywhere I look only has 2008 vehicles?
I just want to make sure people havent avoided this car for a major reason.
Thanks All
Tony

atb2

Sounds to me they want to move the oldest inventory, and maybe at a greater discount. Mine was built in 4/09 and purchased in the same month. I practically got it right off the transporter. Chances are it's had more than one jumpstart and has had some movement arount the dealer network. It's all what you are comfortable with. I would scout around for a "newer" one.

kiawah

It'll be fine. My last two vehicles, and my fourth to last vehicles I've bought ranged from 6 months to a year on the lot. Not a problem with any of them.

jz888

I called Toyota today and they told me that it was designed this way to help defrosting. I am kind of skeptical. Would other LE owner verify this please ?

mcdawgg

Yes, this is by design. The reason is that they designed it to avoid someone leaving it on recirculate too long and fogging up the windows so much that they cannot see and get into an accident. It will happen at temps above 45, but not as quickly as when the temp is lower.

You can defeat this design, however. If you push the recirculate button AND hold it in for 5 seconds, it will stay on recirculate until you push it again or you switch the airflow knob into or out of one of the two defrost positions.

I occasionally do this on my '07 CE (same as the LE except no power seat and no keyless entry).

waltchan

I believe the owner's manual states that A/C automatically shuts off when outside temperature reaches below 45 degrees.

mcdawgg

That may be on the newer cars. On my older Corolla, the AC still works below 45, but the compressor is only on for 10 seconds or less. I haven't noticed the Camry, I'll try to pay attention to this.

jz888

Thanks for the tip. I am going to try it next week when the temperature is expected to be below 45F.

jagger

I'm back. The key fobs for the new exchanged Camry I got to replace the one that pulled to the left do not beep and flash lights when I hit lock and unlock. Service said I had to go thru customer rep before bringing it in. Waiting for that fabled return phone call. Both the spare and main key fobs don't produce beeps/flashes. Any ideas why? Service tech said something must've been done to create this, altho he had no idea what. It's not a big deal, but given the hassles I've had with that dealer I want to get all things corrected before I complete the survey on them. Feel it's my only leverage.

Jagger

obyone

It's not a big deal, but given the hassles I've had with that dealer I want to get all things corrected before I complete the survey on them. Feel it's my only leverage.

Let me understand this. You're using the customer survey mailed out by Toyota to blackmail the dealership? Now that's interesting.

Of all the vehicles I've owned, there is always a setting or a way to set whether the car beeps or flashes it's lights when the alarm engages and disengages. This info is usually found in the owner's manual. Have you tried checking there?

exler

Do you like the CVT on the Nissan better than the 4-5 or 6 speed transmissions? I did drive a CVT for a road test and it was smooth. Supposed to get better miles per gallon from what I read also?? If so, I wonder why other manufacturers do not go to the CVT?? Any thoughts?

motorcity6

You are making progress with Japanese folks..The CE is the entry-level Camry lacking any "bells and whistles", so it should be in the simplest form of transportation..nothing to go wrong??? Maybe the assembly plant has been unionized??

All in jest, for it must be distrubing to find the 2nd car lacking the hollowed quality of Toyota fame..Hang in there for if it gets worse or excuses mount, and nothing gets fixed, share the this website with the dealer so they can explain their miscues to the Toy believers..

The 02 XLE in my garage has a warranty good thru 9/30/09 or 100k mi..My next trip to get the oil changed I shall get into new struts under the warranty for it will need new tires and no sense buying tires if the suspension is kaput..Next thing will be the timing belt, tuneup, and whatever, so trading time is at hand for additional expense of repairs does nothing to enhance value..

I am not excited about the 09 models, however, the 2010 models will have a new 4-banger engine and maybe they will have figured out some missteps of current run,and my friend will get a SE w/sunroof of the 4 cyl variety, no other bells or whistles..

Having never owned an Asian named car, I am perplexed by the amount of nitpicky problems on some of these cars..

Keep the dealer on the defense..it will get fixed or maybe they will cough up another car....

210delray

I believe some of the others are correct -- this is a programmable feature, and the "how to's" can be found in the owner's manual.

wwest

Human metabolism, breathing, perspiration, etc, contributes a LOT of humidity to the cabin environment and there is no escape, no EASY ESCAPE, for that humidified atmosphere if you have the system in recirculate mode. So absent FORCING cabin airflow out of the cabin via the relatively tiny exhauster port the Rh in the cabin just keeps rising...and rising. Soon the dewpoint will be below the windshield (or windows) interior surface temperature and condensation, FOG, begins to form.

For the same reasons of safety even in summer the system will not remain in recirculate mode for more than a few minutes unless the A/C is operating.

All automotive A/C compressors MUST be disabled below about 35F otherwise the condensate on the evaporator vanes might/would freeze and block all incoming airflow. I would not be at all surprised if some marques disabled the A/C in the 45-50F range as the ability for the A/C to provide any reasonable level of dehumidification below those temperatures is unlikely except in unusual climatic conditions, COLD and HUMID.