2009 Subaru Forester

batman47

How does the 2009 Subaru compare against the Mitsubishi Outlander ES SUV AWD (2.4 4cyl CVT)? Would you still order a Forester?

paisan

Since the car is brand new, a lot of the questions you are asking can't honestly be answered until they start shipping them.

As for the 2.5 SOHC v. 2.5DOHC Turbo, it's about 100hp difference!

-mike

nowakj66

Is it confirmed that the XT cannot be had with a manual tranny?

If so, what is the point of the turbo if you cannot keep it in the juicy part of the powerband?

paisan

Yes no XT + MT for 09 that's confirmed.

-mike

erics6

Raised roof rails not available on base 2.5 X???

dcm61

How does the 2009 Subaru compare against the Mitsubishi Outlander ES SUV AWD (2.4 4cyl CVT)?

Since the 2009 Forester is not yet available in the US, I don't think anyone can honestly answer that. Note that "better" is in the eye of the beholder; different strokes for different folks.

Would you still order a Forester?

Only you can answer that question, after you've done your own comparison.

johnv

So no MT5 with the XT; does the X with the PP have the MT5 option?

batman47

DOHC is not equal turbo. There many DOHC engines that are not turbo. Something else must be the main difference. For example all Toyota engines are DOHC.

batman47

Forum s are for exchanging/sharing ideas, procedures, ways of deciding something, sharing experiences. A decision to buy a vehicle always carried a deep thinking with the help of other people thinkings. Forum has made people more aware when buying a vehicle.

The previous Forester has signal mirrors. The new one does not have any (according to the photos). When I ask about accessories I wonder if this details can be ordered. The pdf file gives a lot of information of the new 2009 Forester at least to cross other crossoverson from a buying list.

I dealer has inform me that the car will be ready for customer next March.

paisan

DOHC is not equal turbo. There many DOHC engines that are not turbo. Something else must be the main difference. For example all Toyota engines are DOHC.

I know this, however in this particular application in the USDM market the 2.5L SOHC is the ~173hp non-turbo model and the 2.5L DOHC is the ~250hp Turbo model.

-mike

batman47

I think there must be some mechanicals, construction differentiation that allow these type of engines. I think originally "old engines" use to have SOHC perhaps for its simplicity while the DOHC is better (e.g. performance, etc).

batman47

This is a review from the Detroit auto show:

Two types of symmetrical all-wheel drive are available based on the transmission chosen. The 5-speed manual transmission has a viscous-coupling locking center differential while the automatic transmission is paired with an electronically controlled continuously variable transfer clutch that actively manages torque distribution based on acceleration, braking and available traction.. Does it mean a Forester with a CVT?

rsholland

No, not yet. I'm expecting a CVT to show up for 2010 or 2011.

I think a CVT will show up first on the all-new 2010 Legacy and Outback (Tribeca?), with the Impreza and Forester getting it in 2011.

Bob

p0926

Does it mean a Forester with a CVT?

Nope. Just means that the distribution of power going to the front and rear wheels is constantly being varied depending driving conditions.

-Frank

p0926

So no MT5 with the XT; does the X with the PP have the MT5 option?

Yes

p0926

Yes no XT + MT for 09 that's confirmed.

FYI, I just fired off a missive to SOA letting them know my stunned disbelief that they had decided to drop the MT from the XT

-Frank

ateixeira

Actually the turbo only makes 54hp more than the base engine, plus it only comes with the automatic now. So not nearly the same performance advantage as before.

Packaging looks almost exactly like the 08 model, X, X Premium, LL Bean, XT, and XT Limited. They dropped the Sports models.

That plus the brochures imply that Nav is a stand-alone option on the LL Bean and XT Limited.

For us it looks like an LL Bean with Nav would be just about perfect. :shades:

rsholland

It's because last year only 2% of turbos sold were with manual trannys; not a good business case for continuing with it.

Bob

paisan

I think there must be some mechanicals, construction differentiation that allow these type of engines. I think originally "old engines" use to have SOHC perhaps for its simplicity while the DOHC is better (e.g. performance, etc).

The engines are different, yes. But Subaru doesn't make a non-turbo DOHC engine anymore, IIRC, at least not an H4.

-mike

dstew1

I believe the 2.0L they use in the JDM NA Subies is DOHC.

paisan

Yeah I was talking about USDM vehicles.

-mike

rsholland

NA 2.0 H-4s sold in other markets are all DOHC.

Bob

p0926

It's because last year only 2% of turbos sold were with manual trannys

Okay but how many did they make? If your production only contains 2% MT then you're never going to sell more than that :P

If you go to a dealer's lot and they only have one turbo MT, there a excellent chance that it won't be the color or configuration you want, so you're either going to look elsewhere or settle for an AT

-Frank

rsholland

Don't know Frank, but that's what I was told.

Bob

colloquor

With a Single Overhead Cam (SOHC), the single cam operates both exhaust and intake valves, and typically this design implies an 8 valve 4-cylinder engine. However, with a Double Overhead Cam (DOHC), one cam operates the intake valves and the other the exhaust valves, and also typically implies a 16 valve 4-cylinder engine. This is not always the case, of course.

A DOHC engine generally has better breathing capability, and better performance. With Variable Valve Timing, the distinction between SOHC and DOHC has become a bit muddled, because with VVT a SOHC design can perform almost as well as a DOHC without VVT.

batman47

Does the 2.5X Forester have VVT?

jeffmc

"This is a review from the Detroit auto show:

Two types of symmetrical all-wheel drive are available based on the transmission chosen. The 5-speed manual transmission has a viscous-coupling locking center differential while the automatic transmission is paired with an electronically controlled continuously variable transfer clutch that actively manages torque distribution based on acceleration, braking and available traction.. Does it mean a Forester with a CVT?"

Batman47 - do you have a source for this? I'd love to post a link to it for a fella on another forum who has been wondering about the center diff. Thanks!

paisan

That's the same system they've been using for years, since 1988 actually.

-mike

batman47

No problem!

//autoshow.autos.msn.com/autoshow/Detroit2008/Article.aspx?cp-documentid=5895814-

batman47

The 2008 Forester has heated, electrical anti blind-spot door mirrors with integrated turn indicators. However the 2009 Forester seems not to have this detail. Would someone here comments in the possibility of replacing the 2009 mirrors with the 2008 mirrors and how can I do it?

batman47

Please note there is not minus (-) at the end of the string:

http://autoshow.autos.msn.com/autoshow/Detroit2008/Article.aspx?cp-documentid=58- 95814

paisan

The 2008 Forester has heated, electrical anti blind-spot door mirrors with integrated turn indicators. However the 2009 Forester seems not to have this detail. Would someone here comments in the possibility of replacing the 2009 mirrors with the 2008 mirrors and how can I do it?

Can't do it the mirrors are quite different from 08 to 09.

-mike

jacksan1

I've just talked to someone in Japan about the Forester's transmission. The rumor mill over there has it that it is indeed in FHI's plan to eventually replace the current 4AT with a newly designed CVT. The first MMC would be the likely timing for that to happen. It is still a rumor, though.

paisan

CVT is the plan for all the ATs in the Subaru line-up. We've known that for a bit of time now.

-mike

ateixeira

Does the 2.5X Forester have VVT?

No for the normally aspirated engine. No variable valve timing, but it does vary the lift.

From the PDF from Subaru:

SOHC, 4 valves per cylinder, i-Active Valve Lift System.

The turbo gets DOHC, 4 valves per cylinder, and AVCS (active valve control system).

So for the turbo the answer is Yes, it does have VVT, they just call it something else.

rsholland

2% of ALL combined Forester sales (NA and turbo) model year to date were turbo m/t models, not just Forester turbo models.

Bob

ateixeira

Gotcha. So they just dropped the lowest volume powertrain (turbo+5 speed).

paisan

Well bob, that's a good reason why they aren't offering the MT anymore in it. I wonder how much $ that will save in terms of a per-unit price? I would think it must be fairly significant savings to drop the MT. You figure now they only need to stock, 1 set of rear diffys, front axles, center consoles, dash panels, radiators, pedal boxes, and I'm sure 100s of other bits and pieces.

-mike

facops

This might be a little soon but does anyone know what the gallon capacity of the new Forester will be? The small tank is (in my opinion) one of the few drawbacks of the present model.

rsholland

My guess is that they increased it by a gallon, which is what they did on the new Impreza.

Bob

ateixeira

Should be 16.9 gallons, though they did not list that in the specs in the PDF I got. I checked.

That's a good size tank, the CR-V only gets 15.3 gallons and the RAV4 15.9. Forester ought to have the best range among the non-hybrids.

batman47

The proliferation of using signal mirrors or signal repeaters in cars is an ongoing situation in the US especially in top of the range cars, e.g. CX-9, Tribeca, Outlook just to mention a few. This tendency is a consequence of European regulations which Japan. Korea and the majority of European and Asian countries are signatories. The US has its own regulations and these types of indicators are not needed in the US. The Kia 2009 Borrego, Honda 2009 Pilot, Volkswagen, Mercedes, Audi, etc; almost all their vehicles have signal mirrors. The tourist traffic between the US and Europe, i.e. people using their own cars to travel is on the increase.

I have managed to access the 2009 Forester on-line catalogue (http://www.subaru.jp/accessory/forester/index.html) and it appears that the signal mirrors (p/n: J1017SC0200) are sold for the 2009 Forester in Japan at a price of 17,850 yens in spite that the Japanese 2009 Forester comes in Japan with side repeater indicators. Does somebody here have some experience in ordering parts (that are not sold in the US) directly from a Subaru dealer? What I don’t know is if this part comes with all the wiring to plug it to the indicator circuits in the mirror door. Someone in another part of this forum, e.g. forum Mazda CX-9 described that only the CX-9 Tourist Package comes with signal mirrors and Xenon lights. One member of that forum bought the signal mirrors that come with the Touring CX-9 from a Mazda dealer with the intention to install them into his lower specification CX-9 vehicle which didn’t have the signal mirrors. These mirrors are not even offered as an option for his car. Somebody in that forum instructed him to download a PDF file with instructions of how to install the mirrors himself in a Mazda CX-9 because the Mazda dealer wanted to charge him $250 for the installation of both mirrors.

jeffmc

You could try AVO, a Japanese company which specializes in performance equipment, body kits, etc. They just opened a US facility (in the Seattle area), which may make it easier to get something shipped to you. I doubt they'd have that part listed on their site, so you'd probably need to contact them directly. From what I've read, they've got a good reputation among the WRX & STI folks, and are definitely reputable.

You could also try japanparts.com... they export JDM Subaru items internationally. Not sure how much of their stuff is Forester-related, and not sure if they'd have that part listed anyway since it's so new, so you may have to contact them directly.

I've had a Subaru part shipped to the US from Cheam Motors in Surrey, England. If the mirrors are used on European Foresters, you'll probably be able to get them from these guys as well, if you contact them. Easy to work with.

Good luck to you. If you go this route, let us know pricing. I like the signal mirrors as well... they look nice, and I think they enhance safety.

paisan

You may also be able to bolt on the WRX mirrors which have the turn signals in them.

-mike

batman47

Thanks jeffmc and mike.
Are both mirrors compatible or interchangeable (i.e. WRX/Forester)?

paisan

I don't know if they are compatible and you likely won't know until the 09 Foresters actually start shipping. You also may need to run wire to them to actually illuminate them.

-mike

jacksan1

it appears that the signal mirrors (p/n: J1017SC0200) are sold for the 2009 Forester in Japan at a price of 17,850 yens

Actually, that part (J1017SC0200) is just a protector that snaps onto the existing mirror. It has no turn indicator built-in. The name of the part reads "Door Mirror Cover (chrome)."

batman47

I made a mistake. Sorry the p/n is J1017SC020. Yes, if you read Japanese then that part must be a "Door Mirror Cover (chrome)."

batman47

The Japanese version of the WRX does not have signal mirrors, just side repeater indicators. The signal mirrors for this vehicle are: J2717FG000 and J2717FG001 at a price of 51,450 yens. Perhaps they are also “Door Mirror Cover”.

The Japanese WRX STI comes with signal mirrors so obviously no signal mirrors are shown in the WRX STI on-line accessory catalogue.

Equally, this 2009 Forester on-line accessory catalogue gives p/n for all sort of accessories needed in a SUV, e.g. cross rails to fix onto the roof rails (p/n: E3617SC550) at a price of 32,550 yens. Another example is the puddle lights (p/n: H4717SC100) at a price of 44,100 yens. Skid plates (p/n (front): E5517SC000 & p/n (rear): E5517SC100) at a price of 33,600 yens and 33,600 yens respectively.

Oil filters for the Forester are Denso with a p/n: SAA3280000 at a price of 2,835 yens.

I don't read Japanese, just I assume that I am OK, perhaps jacksan1 could confirm this.

samiam_68

I've had a Subaru part shipped to the US from Cheam Motors in Surrey, England. If the mirrors are used on European Foresters, you'll probably be able to get them from these guys as well, if you contact them. Easy to work with.


If you order mirrors from England or Japan, they will not be good for the US because we drive on the right and they drive on the left. Convex will be on the wrong side.