Mazda Protege Maintenance and Repair

chikoo

http://secant.ni.com/ramgen/archive/engine/enginetest_surestream16&32&44kbs.rm

writeup available at

http://www.ni.com/svix/engine_knock.htm

chikoo

Q: What causes engine knock, and how can I prevent it?

A: Several factors can contribute to, or result in, engine knock. These factors include outdoor temperature extremes, altitude, humidity, operating under heavy engine loads, time elapsed between routine tune-ups, vehicle age, and manufacturing and engineering tolerances. The most common cause of engine knock is improper tuning of the engine, where the engine timing has deviated from the manufacturer's design specifications. This problem is easily resolved through proper routine maintenance and tune-ups.

As a vehicle's engine ages, the octane required to prevent knock may increase. This condition is referred to as Octane Requirement Increase, or ORI, and is the result of normal engine wear. In instances where you experience occasional or moderate knocking, your first line of defense is to try a higher octane gasoline to accommodate this Octane Requirement Increase of your engine. Severe knocking, which cannot be remedied by using a higher octane grade of gasoline, demands your authorized mechanic's attention.

http://www.citgo.com/Products/QuestionsAnswers.jsp

chikoo

How do I know which grade of gasoline to buy?

The octane level recommended by your vehicle's manufacturer is a good starting point. But, price, driving habits and personal preference also are important. And so are individual vehicle characteristics.

>>For example, research shows that cars the same age with identical engines have different octane requirements, probably due to manufacturing tolerances. <<<<

The best advice is: try different gasolines, observe how they perform in your car, and pick the one that meets your needs.

http://www.api.org/consumer/

theparallax

I filled my car up w/ Chevron 93 octane gas last night. Wow, what a big difference. No pinging at all. The engine actually sounds great again when I open it up all the way.

I wonder if the car needs to be tuned up... (Only has 36K on it though)

nsbio1

Hi,
I have a 96 Protege with a 1.5L thing... been a good one so far (115K miles and still going strong). However, it does ping during hard acceleration unless I use 93 octane gas. The pinging is temperature-dependent: I can switch back to regular when it is below 50-60. Replaced plugs - same thing, it just keeps pinging.
Oddly enough, I suggested a friend of mine to purchase a used 1998 LX, and that thing was pinging during the test drive just like mine. I believe this is an issue with many proteges. And I suspect this is precisely the reason why Mazda techs do not acknowledge the pinging sometimes - they are aware of the issue but do not have a solution... Otherwise Protege is a great car... that requires the premium gas.

theparallax

I've only heard of complains from the owners of the 1.6 and 1.5 liter engines though. I have a 1999 LX. Apparently it's a common 'problem' (if you call it that) w/ these engines.

kaiserhead

There's a general recall on the mass airflow sensor for 1999-2000 1.6L Proteges.

SSP056 FEB 02 Campaign - Mass Airflow Sensor Warranty Extension

Does anyone have a copy of this recall or know how we can get more information from Mazda? I'm wondering if it will lead to some info our mysterious engine knock.

puranik

In reply to your query to consolidate the problem, here are my inputs:

1. The problem is very clear. When I step on Gas from Idle or low accelaration with 87 Octane Gas, the engine pings.
2. The problem disappears with 93 Octane fuel.

I believe the more you try to explain the problem to the service technicians, the more confused they get (or pretend to).

Regarding your mail about the Mass Airflow Sensor Warranty Extension Program, I did receive a snail mail from them. I am printing whatever is printing in the document. They did not mention about the ping as a symptom:

Quote Mazda
" Vehicles with Mass Airflow Sensor malfunction may exhibit any of the following symptoms: illumination of Check Engine Light, lack of power, hesitation, unstable idle. Should a symptom occur, please make an appointment with your Mazda dealer to have your vehicle diagnosed. If the malfunction is due to the failure of the Mass Airlow Sensor during the terms of this Warranty extension, it will be reparied free of charge. Failure of the Mass Airflow Sensor will not cause the failure of any other components. However, other components can cause these symptoms and are not covered under this extended warranty. This extension ONLY covers the Mass Airflow Sensor"

kaiserhead

Thanks for the text, did they send out a mass mailing to all owners with that engine and year or did they only send it to people who may have reported problems with the car?

neesie

Okay, after many trips to the dealer about my 99 Mazda Protege noise (ping, grinding what ever the noise is called) with no resolution, is it safe to drive the vehicle 2000 miles over a period of 4 days of should I get a rental? I am concerned!

orlandoguy1

OK--wrote soemthing about this earlier--just can't find my post-I have 99 dx-with the pinging problems. Took to dealer to have them chk it out. After paying 125.00 to have injectors and plugs changed--was told that would solve the proble. Was told to run a tank of hi test through it and then after that regular gas. Did that--now back to normal. The car never seems to idle smooth--only 37550 miles on it...always seems to have rought idle u feel through the steering wheel and seats--not alot--but enough to notice.What nest?? They tell me if u run hi test through it all the time--it can mess up the computer and catalitic converter. Oh and for Fairbanks Mazda--if u go--take a condom--cause your gonna get screwed!!!!!!

theparallax

I've had that pinging noise ever since I could remember. It won't damage anything as far as I know, it's just annoying!

jneipert

The problem is that the piece of metal that covers the hole where you would insert your key is bent into the hole, not allowing the key to go in. It has now happened to all of my locks. I have a family member who also bought a Protege, and we bought our cars from different dealerships in different states, and she is now also having the same problem.

mazdafun

I know the original plastic ones on my '99 were a problem. The one in the driver door broke and jammed the lock cylinder. They replaced it and the one on the passenger side (without waiting for it to fail first) with the ones with the metal flap. No problems since.

To avoid this, you might want to lubricate the lock mechanism every now and then. A silicone spray does well.

If you bring it to the service dept's attention, I think it's covered under warranty. Mine were.

mbs7

I've read that prolonged pinging can damage your engine. A pinging engine is one that is not running as designed, which can't be good for engine life.

As for replacing the MAF sensor. I've had this done and yet my engine pings. It *seemed* like the pinging was less right after the replacement, but now (6 months later) it is as bad as ever.

I think I'm going to put 92 octane in my car today and see if the pinging completely disappears.

tbay

.....happened to our '99 Protege as well

chikoo

next week, 'cause whenever the temp. goes above 70F, and I turn the wheel to the right, it makes a swishing/squishing/hissing sound all the way to the end.

mdaffron

New power steering pump? New rack? What?

Meade

chikoo

it's a new rack (& maybe the pinion too)

mdaffron

I had to replace the rack on a 1980 Saab in 1986 -- but that's the only time I've experienced a problem like that, and the car had 80,000 miles on it. (I bought it used at 60,000 miles and learned later that it had been abused by a doctor's son. Do you do a lot of hard driving?)

Funny -- are we the only two people on the Protege discussions today? Sure feels like it.

Meade

protege_fan

Read back to my Omega man posts from Monday for a similar incident of nobody on the board.

Also, I can't remember where it was, but somebody from Virgina had a question about Daytime Running Lights (DRL's). I think he said that his car didn't seem to have them, but he wasn't sure if this was a defect or not.

Meade, does your Pro have DRL's or not?

mdaffron

DRLs are not a requirement in Virginia. Are they a requirement anywhere in the U.S.? I see a 2- or 3-year-old car that has them every now and then, but I haven't seen any newer models with them. I guess DRLs were somebody's bright idea (pun intended) a few years ago, but it never caught on -- at least here in Virginia. Score one against GE and Philips, who probably instigated that stupid idea!

Meade the Unopinionated

dsm6

Many GMs, including my wife's, have 'em. I like them. I'll take any safety edge I can get, no matter how small. Bulbs are easy to replace, especially compared to the potential alternative.

chikoo

Meade, I was shocked when the dealer informed me of this.... I was "WHAT???"
Hey But do I care? It's all under warranty.

DRL: It's a must for cars in Canada, not USA.
Yeah. GE must have donated a lot of dough to somebody who drafted and passed this law.

mdaffron

I don't like them because our drivers don't know how to use them. Maybe up there in the Great White North your drivers are more used to them, but the big problem I have is right around sunset, when many DRL users around my neck of the woods leave on their DRLs (by not turning on their regular headlights). DRLs here, in most cases, are just lower-intensity versions of the car's high-beams -- but around dusk that doesn't matter, they're still high beams, and the glare they produce when they're coming at you -- especially on a two-lane road -- is, I feel, more dangerous than not having them at all. Lower intensity or not, when it starts to get dark, those beams are shining right into my face from oncoming traffic. Users should be taught to turn on their normal low-beams before it gets so dark that their DRLs blind people. When I see someone doing this, I don't "flash" my high-beams -- I keep them on until they do something about it. I also do this with those nuts who like to run driving lights, usually which are mis-aimed, in the face of oncoming traffic. On come my high beams until they pass by -- unless they turn off the driving lights, which never happens. Fair is fair -- you shine four headlights in my face, you get 'em back!

Meade
"Do unto others like they done unto you"

dsm6

On my wife's pontiac, it is all automatic. The lights are set in the on position, and when the light sensor says it is dark enough to switch, it switches. They're either all on, or just parking lights, no option in-between.

They aren't very bright anyway. I know from driving in front of her, and seeing other GMs on the road. The new high-intensity lights that are becoming so popular are really bright even on low beam. Those are the ones that create the real hazard. Supposedly they are aimed so as to minimize their impact, but on twisty, hilly roads, that doesn't work so well.

chikoo

is not a MAZDA problem. so will all of be kind enough to go to the posse forum? please?

kaiserhead

Canada has required DRLs on all new cars since 1988, since moving to the U.S. two years ago I've determined that the pros vastly out weigh the cons in this debate. Yeah, there's the people that drive at night with just DRLs, they're not 'real' lights, etc. But I think they these are moot points when you weigh them against the ability to see oncoming cars a lot clearer on the roads. (Plus it's a great safety mechanism for people like me who find themselves driving in the pouring rain with stupid people who don't turn their lights on!!!)

gladichecked

Sorry this is so long:

I don't know if any of you old timers remember me, but I have an Emerald Mica 2000 Protege ES (automatic). I have had the car for almost 2 years now and it has been flawless...nothing but oil changes until now. I took a trip to Nashville, TN (from Raleigh, NC) and on the way back it was raining hard for about 2 hours straight. The rain let up and shortly after I had the cruise control, AC, rear defogger, radio, and headlights on. Occasionally my headlights got brighter for a second and then back to normal. At the same time there was a slight surge (or hesitation?) in engine power. As I was almost back to Raleigh my battery light starting coming on, then going back off (and I felt the hesitation). I noticed this as I exited off of the highway onto the exit ramp. It was 3AM when I got in so I didn't do anything about it at the time. The next day I checked the belts and battery connections and everything looked fine. During the next week I made several short trips (non highway) and the problem did not re-occur.

Since I am moving to Nashville next week I took the car in to get this checked out before I make the 8+ hour drive. When I explained the symptoms over the phone to the service department they suspected the alternator. I brought the car in to the dealership today (wed) and the battery light came on as I was exiting the highway to go to the dealership (again with hesitation). This is the first time I had the car up to highway speed since my trip last week. They checked the car and said the alternator was fine. He also said he didn't have authorization to replace parts unless he could diagnois what the problem was (still under warranty). He said to pick up the car and if it happened again to bring it back in immediately. I told him this was not acceptable since I am moving and making the long drive to TN next week, and I want the problem solved. He agreed to have a mechanic take it on the road tomorrow to try and replicate the problem.

Does anyone have a clue as to what could be causing this? Any help would be greatly appreciated. BTW, the car starts fine, so I don't think the battery is losing its charge.

gladichecked

When the problem occured today it was dry as a bone, and has been for several days.

mdaffron

Yeah dude, I remember you! How ya been? You may remember that we have the exact same car (even color), but mine is a five-speed.

I have a feeling you may have an alternator problem after all -- but one that's not quite too-far-gone; it's getting weak and is about to fail. Note how you had just about every power-taxing appliance going when it happened the first time. I'd be curious if you can remember what was running when it happened on the way to the dealership. I'll bet you at least had the a/c on.

I've noticed, since I bought my 2000 Protege, that at night with the a/c on, the headlights blink when the compressor cycles on. Something I've just gotten used to. But I'll bet that's a sign that the alternator's working hard under those conditions, and when it starts to go, it probably doesn't take much to overload it. (Can't remember off-hand how many amps our alternators are rated at, but I think they're pretty good.)

My recommendation? Take the car back to your service department and take your service writer and/or a mechanic out for a drive -- and turn on everything again. I'll bet it recurs. When they test-drove it alone, they probably didn't turn on everything -- that's why you got the dreaded "failed to duplicate problem" line.

Good luck. BTW, my 2000 ES has 37,000 miles on it and is running fine, and since we last talked, my wife bought a 2002 Protege5. Keep in touch, Bryan!

Meade

chikoo

you are dead on target.
The 1.8L config is weak in this respect viz. the alternator.
I see that happening to me too, but never got the batter light on.
probably the regulator is gone (or almost gone)

gladichecked

I remember you and Larry, Chikoo, and several of the other regulars. I have about 24,000 on mine and this is the first problem of any kind I have had. I notice that the A/C does that as well, or if you are at a stoplight it does a little number that makes you feel like you moved.

I don't think I had anything running when I drove it to the dealership. It was 7AM, so I don't recall having the A/C on, and didn't even have the radio on. I can't seem to reproduce it at lower speeds, but when slowing down after highway speeds it seems to do it. Makes me wonder if it is overcharging at high speeds.

I am about to call the dealership, and I will come back this evening with an update. Thanks for the advice.

gladichecked

They drove my car for 40+ miles at different speeds (including highway) with A/C on, radio on, opened and closed windows, etc, and couldn't reproduce the problem. He said that if it is the alternator or regulator the problem will get worse over time and to bring it back in, but until they can reproduce the problem or "see" the problem with their tests they can't replace anything (under warranaty).

Since I will be moving in a week I have to make the 500+ mile trip to Nashville. I feel like I am getting set up for disaster. You know how moves are, they rely on timing to meet the movers at my new place, sign the lease, etc. I will also be orienting and training at my new job and won't have time to be dealing with finding a Mazda dealership and having repairs made. If my alternator goes out during this trip I will be screwed.

Any ideas on how I might elevate this situation to a higher level with Mazda?

protegextwo

Hi Bryan! I hope everything works out with your car.

-Larry

mazdafun

Also, keep your own records of this thread. If you can show that you noticed this issue beginning during the warranty period, and you've attempted to bring it to your service provider's attention, you usually can get it covered under warranty if it eventually fails after the warranty ends.

Naturally, this doesn't apply to normal wear and tear, or if you noticed the deterioration or didn't do anything about it until after the warranty expires.

mazdafun

mazdafun

I've noticed some white powdery deposits inside my tail pipe that've just started appearing (well, I just noticed them about a week ago). I've got my suspicion about what it is. but I welcome any suggestions about what this could be, so I don't miss anything.

the_big_h

well, not working some of the time. I'm having problem with the door lock on the rear driver-side door. When I try to unlock all 4 doors using the automatic door lock, sometimes the lock doesn't pop up, and sometimes when I want to lock it, the lock doesn't go down. Anybody know what could be wrong?

This seems to be an intermittent problem that just popped up (pardon the pun) today. Gonna need to visit my neighborhood dealer for a warranty repair soon

chikoo

that is filled in the Protege ES Automatic?
is it Dexron IID or Dexron IIE or DexronIII or MerconV?

Is it synthetic?

I guess this is a question for Maltb / Jerry

maltb

My buddy said there are no known issues, but that it doesn't right. All you can do is keep an eye on it and wiat for it to get noticeable by the tech.

chikoo

the dealer tech does notice it but says it is NORMAL, after driving other 99-00 ES in similiar stop&go driving conditions.

mazdafun

I guess it was the humidity in the air; it was warm and humid for a while. No detectable loss of coolant from the system, no sign of coolant in the oil, no sweet scent in the exhaust.

jherrmt

I've got a 99 Protoge ES with about 56,000 miles on it. No significant problems so far, but lately, I've been experiencing a squeal when I take slow right hand turns after driving about 30 minutes. I just began to notice it when I have the windows open. My son has been delivering pizzas for the past month and he's now complaining regularly.

I brought it to my local mechanic (a good one) and he thought the sound was coming from the right rear. Checked the brakes and nothing was loose. He cleaned and lubed the mechanism, but this didn't help much. I think the sound seems like it's coming from the drive train (steering mechanism), but the mechanic was in the car with me when it made this squeal and he said it was definitely not from that location.

Any ideas?

tomciviletti

could be a wheel bearing
could be a dry steering booster pump
could be a transaxle problem

gladichecked

After getting my 2000 ProEs back without the dealer finding the problem (see earlier post) the problem didn't reoccur for about a week. Now it's back. Took the car by Saturday afternoon and happened to catch the service manager. He was aware of the mystery problem from the 1st visit. I mentioned the "S" word (safety) and I will be taking the car back in Tuesday. I also have noticed that the car seems to be idling lower than normal (about 500rpm vs 800rpm). I was able to sit in my driveway tonight with the car running, give it a little gas, and the lights would get brighter and the battery light came on. I drove it around the block a couple of times and pulled back into the driveway. Now the car was idling closer to 800rpm and I couldn't reproduce the problem. At this point I'm thinking the car may be posessed!

mazdafun

It could also be an under-tensioned belt that drives the power-steering pump. Expansion due to heat (you mentioned it occurs after running about 30 minutes) could cause the belt to lengthen and loosen enough to cause it to slip on the P/S pulley when demanding more power from the power steering mechanism (as in slow, tight turns).

The belt could be worn smooth too. If it's the belt, it's a cheap fix (although it looks awful tight to get to it).

chikoo

I got my steering rack replaced for a similiar problem....squeal when turning to the right....when it is HOT, incidentally also a 99 ES.
I was shocked when Mazda NA Quality came back with this recommendation...that too within 4 hours...I was expecting a loose belt OR a valve gone bad.
But the steering feels great now!

orlandoguy1

Hey guys--Like the rest of u--the mystery pinging continues,even after a trip to the dealer. They advise not to put 93 octane in the car...messes up computer..and catalitic converter eventually. I tried 89 octane--helped a bit--but still run sort of rough..is this normal?? When I say rough..I mena u can feel vibration in the seat while it idles. Its not alot--but with 38000 miles on it..it seems to me it should run smoother..Dealer CLAIMS the idle is set properly..what nest--any suggestions??? Thks for the imput guys.

gladichecked

it suggests regular unleaded, which is 87 octane where I live.