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The Tata Nano, India's $2,500 Car

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Comments

  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I'm with Gary on this one.

    Unless they sneak it in as a motorcycle or something, to bypass all the safety regs, we won't see cars anywhere near $2500.
  • 0patience0patience Member Posts: 1,712
    It's a real shame that as a nation, the U.S. can't even to seem to bring in a real economical vehicle. Not only in fuel economy, but cost.
    Especially with the cost of fuel heading to or reaching $5/gallon.

    The US has/is regulating everything out of existence. The Tato Nano is not the first vehicle that would have been a good, fuel saving vehicle that could have reached the US market, but because of all the regulations, never made it.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,130
    It might be fuel saving, but how "good" is it for our roads?

    I'd trust a Euro or Japanese minicar more.
  • 0patience0patience Member Posts: 1,712
    Why wouldn't it?
    If it is build well, what makes any other "micro" car better than it?

    I miss how it would be bad for our roads.
    As for trusting a euro car or asian car over it, that is why people have choices.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,130
    I haven't seen anything claiming that it is built well, and Indian automotive engineering doesn't exactly have a long and storied history.

    Crashworthiness, build quality, ability to deal with freeways and urban grinds both...not as simple as it looks.
  • 0patience0patience Member Posts: 1,712
    ability to deal with freeways and urban grinds both...not as simple as it looks.
    I'm pretty aware that it isn't as simple as it looks. I've spent the last 30 years in this industry.

    My point is, there isn't enough information on what would be presented to the american market to make any kind of judgement on it right now.

    It would have to meet the minimum crash specs to even be considered for the american market, so that takes care of that argument.
    Ability to deal with freeways, most micros can't even do that.

    The point is, regardless of what it is, it should be given an opportunity.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,130
    If you know the hurdles this thing must overcome, then you realize how doubtful that it will be suitable for American driving conditions.

    Minimum crash test requirements are a simple legality. There's a lot more to it from build quality to comfort.

    This thing would likely approach 10K when brought up to first world standards. I can get a good used fuel efficient car for that.

    If we were in 1986, I wouldn't be willing to give the Yugo an opportunity either - one could tell what was going to happen before it arrived. I'd predict not much different today. You can vote with your wallet, I'll vote with mine ;)
  • 0patience0patience Member Posts: 1,712
    edited May 2011
    In the early 70s, when Honda first introduced their Civic into the US market, there were similar opinions were across the industry. It had a marine engine in it. There was no way that anyone thought it would take off. Yet, here we are with Honda going strong.

    And there are many European cars that should have never made the US market. Some models of Fiat failed miserably and Citroen never did officially make it to the US market.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    Back in 1986, my wife was reckless and self-destructive enough to give the 1.0 litre 3-cylinder Chevrolet Sprint a chance. I think that car scared her away from micro cars forever. She was telling me about how people in trucks and vans and larger cars seemed to have it out for her. Her next car - a 1991 Mercury Tracer - must've seemed like a limousine compared to that Sprint.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    My Uncle Howard bought a new orange 1973 Honda Accord. Up until that time, I thought Honda only made motorcycles. That Civic looked funny with those tiny dimensions and diminutive wheels next to my uncle's other car - a 1971 Oldsmobile Delta 88.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    If you know the hurdles this thing must overcome, then you realize how doubtful that it will be suitable for American driving conditions.

    That's why I think a 3-wheeler design of some sort, classified as a motorcycle, would stand a better chance. It would not have those same hurdles.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,130
    edited May 2011
    The Civic wasn't really usable until the CVCC model came around and the brand didn't really become mainstream until the Accord. Those proved themselves in short time. Does Tata have a CVCC or Accord up its sleeve?

    FIAT and Citroen failed during the dark days when almost every firm was making crap. That coupled with parts supply and dealer network issues did them in here.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,130
    I'd rather have a normal car for bad weather days and a smaller bike for good days - probably cost the same and work out to the same mileage. I'd love to see how the average dumbed down American driver would handle the driving issues of a 3-wheeler, too.

    Personally, I don't care for normal cars or small bikes though, so it won't happen :shades:
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,130
    And that Sprint was like a Lexus compared to a Yugo, in quality and reliability.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    Enough people have killed themselves on three-wheel ATVs. That's why you don't see them much anymore.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Put 2 wheels up front.

    I'm just saying it's a design that could work if Tata wanted to get around the safety regs.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I wonder if that would be registered at a motorcycle, or car?
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,130
    edited May 2011
    For wheels in the back, something like this

    image

    If registered as a motorcycle, shouldn't one then have to have a motorcycle endorsement on their license? A lot tougher than a normal car...
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Beautiful!

    Wow, that's just rolling art...
  • 0patience0patience Member Posts: 1,712
    edited May 2011
    The point is, that Honda did release the civic and it did sell.
    I have no idea what the company that makes the Nano has in mind and neither do you.

    To say that any vehicle should not be released in the US is closed minded and counter productive. If they are released and fail, then that is there problem. Not really anyone else's.

    There are a lot of vehicles that I thought shouldn't have made it in US, but did. But I do have to give credit to the companies that built them for trying.

    In the late 70s and early 80s, I worked on a lot of European garbage that was released in the US, that I couldn't understand how they even got past the crash testing.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,130
    edited May 2011
    The Civic succeeded via some mechanical competency. I guess I haven't seen that from Tata yet. It could be worse though, it could be from China. I'd be much less likely to give it the time of day if so.

    I have never said it shouldn't be released - corporations can spend their money how they please. Maybe not a franchise I'd want to run, though. And there is a problem - the people who buy the things and get stuck. How did 1986 Yugo buyers feel in 1991?

    I own a European car that is heading for 50 years old and pioneered a key safety feature found own everything now. I'd say in the dark days of malaise, there were quite a few American vehicles that also weren't exactly stellar in a crash.
  • 0patience0patience Member Posts: 1,712
    edited May 2011
    Don't get me wrong, I'm not disagreeing with you on most accounts. Just that keeping an open mind about new things is often more productive.

    I agree that they Yugo was a total failure, but even at that, when it was released, there was a lot of speculation in the industry that, because it was from a communist country, it was destined to fail.

    Kia went through a lot of bumps and bruises before it was somewhat accepted as a vehicle.

    There are so many makes of vehicles that met with similar distrust. Volkswagen was one of them.

    Would I buy a Nano? Probably not, but when Kia and Hyundai were first introduced to the US, you couldn't have convinced me that I would ever own a Hyundai, yet I own a Santa Fe. I had never owned anything other than a GM product. So anything is possible.

    And right now, the Nano has quite a few "bugs" that need to be worked out, before it will consider it for the US market. Like the fact that it catches on fire.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I've heard some say it like this....

    The Japanese took 20 years.

    The Koreans took 10.

    The Chinese will do it in 5.

    ***

    Let's see if that's true or not, but it certainly looks like it'll take more than 5. Also, let's see if it's indeed China, or India instead.

    China only lets outsiders sells cars there via joint ventures, so you know they're stealing all sort of trade secrets. I would not be surprised to see a lot of "break ups" with these JVs, and then a year later a bunch of clones coming out using all that proprietary design.

    Do you really think the Chinese government would stop them? It's probably their idea in the first place. They'll cheat to get there.

    Tata owns Land Rover and Jaguar, right? That helps, though it's hard to see technology transfer from those segments all the way down to a cheap people mover.

    PS Saab is now part Chinese owned.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,130
    edited May 2011
    I think the people who say that are misinformed, both about the history of Japanese and Korean automakers, and the Chinese record for world class innovation and development.

    Double those year statements for the two former, and for the latter, it might never pan out.

    Copying will only get you so far. Indeed, the Chinese government encourages it, the nation is an intellectual property pirate. We'll see what it gets them. I don't see anyone rushing to head up technology R&D there, there's a foreign staffed branch office for that, at best. Labor costs make the place work (although some still say our taxes are the issue)

    India would probably get there first, and even then, I wouldn't bank on it actually happening.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,130
    I guess I like to see it to believe it. I haven't seen much in the way of decent locally developed vehicles from China or India.

    Maybe the fire thing can be something used to build mystique, like it does for the Italians :shades:
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Gross generalization, but from what I hear, Chinese engineers are way better than ones coming out of Indian engineering schools.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,130
    That sounds familiar, actually, re: Indian engineers. But India does seem to do well enough in the medical field, so they could be capable.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    True, my last doc was from India and she was great.

    I sort of know a guy (well, met him one time) who is a metallurgy consultant and travels widely and he's not impressed with Indian engine quality.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,130
    I'd be a little leery of Chinese metallurgy too. I saw a youtube video awhile ago of an expat going over their 2 year old copycar (Landwind) SUV, the way it was put together was frankly scary. The engine looked to be out of the 60s and the wiring was a rats nest. Maybe India will do better.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    We should all remember:

    If you are one in a million, there are 1,000 people just like you in India.

    1,200 in China.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    edited May 2011
    If I'm going microcar shopping, the Chevrolet Sonic is on the top of my list. It will be manufactured in Michigan!

    image
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    edited May 2011
    image

    or better still, this...

    image

    With the girl. :D
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    I'd be a little leery of Chinese metallurgy too.

    Most of the Wind Generators and electric motors are now built in China. So just about every EV or Hybrid will have major components from China. I thought the Volt had a Chinese gas engine. And Korean batteries.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,130
    At least those for this market, Europe will probably not be the same dumbing ground yet again. More good reason to vote with your wallet.

    I wonder how much of it our cowardly treacherous globalist executive class masters will be able to dodge by mandating away country of origin information - it's vanishing already, and you know the motives can only be sinister.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    The globalist elitist executive class masters want the world to be run by and for the few. The rest of us merely inhabit the planet. They want to keep us distracted and unthreatening, supplying us with dope and liquor, sex, and mindless entertainment. Their philosophy toward the rest of us is "Let them stay drunk or addicted to drugs. Let them engage in violence as long as it's against each other. Let them live in poverty and misery as long as they stay out of sight and out of mind."
  • plektoplekto Member Posts: 3,738
    They want to keep us distracted and un-threatening, supplying us with dope and liquor, sex, and mindless entertainment. Their philosophy toward the rest of us is "Let them stay drunk or addicted to drugs.

    This is certainly better than a couple of hundred of years ago, though, where we'd get little or no entertainment or cheap alcohol. Back then, you'd work and grind yourself into the dirt and have little to show for it.

    If this is a prison, it's certainly the nicest one the average working person has had in human history.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,130
    There's a reason we've been flooded with cheap distracting goods. Although maybe a topic for another forum.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    I could get used to being cramped in this one. And in the EU version it gets 85 MPG (71 MPG US) out on the road. Take turns driving girls. So when is Fiat putting these in the showrooms? Oh I forgot we are waiting on the Indian version for $2500... Good luck with that.

    image
  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Member Posts: 7,704
    image

    That sure is a nice...car, huh? ;)

    2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick

  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited May 2011
    Heels at the beach? Give me bare feet. Please. I don't even like them on floors. Really hate the WeatherTech ads too.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Mine was wearing flats. She's practical and hot. :D
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    This is a funny video of Putin testing a Russian Lada Granta. Race to the bottom for the auto industry. If we are worried about diminishing oil supplies, maybe seeing how expensive we can build cars would keep the masses from wasting fossil fuel in these little POC. :shades:

    http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2011/05/13/putin_test_drives_europes_chea- pest_car_takes_5_attempts_to_start.html
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,130
    You use less fuel when you can't start :shades:

    Very much like a homegrown Chinese car no doubt.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    In Russia, You don't drive car. Car drives you.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Russia's hybrid. Some times you use gas. Other times your passengers get out and push.

    Two modes of propulsion = hybrid. LOL
  • nandlalnandlal Member Posts: 2
    What is the need to place engine on back of nano car instead of front
  • hpmctorquehpmctorque Member Posts: 4,600
    edited November 2011
    Good question. I don't know the answer, but I'd guess cost. If ever there was a car that was designed to a price, it's the Nano.
  • nandlalnandlal Member Posts: 2
    Tata Nano Base Model
    Rs. 1,35,151

    Tata Nano CX
    Rs. 1,64,481

    Tata Nano LX
    Rs. 1,86,498


    Enjoy it Cheers :)
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Looks like the LX costs about $3663 USD.
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