Diesel TSX in '08

cdnpinhead

Just heard today that the European diesel Tsx is supposed to be released in North America sometime next summer as an '09 model.

Sounds very promising to me. Anyone else heard anything or have any details? I've been holding off replacing my present manual sports sedan until I can get something I really want, since it's hanging in there pretty well. No diesel 3-series BMWs anytime soon (if ever) & no diesel C-series Mercs either. Besides which, the 3-series offers only RFT's (with no spare) & eliminated the dipstick in favor of an oil level sensor that has been troublesome; recent Mercs have a miserable reliability reputation, especially regarding electrical/electronics.

While the gas Tsx has a few drawbacks (IMHO), relative to the RWD Europeans, the diesel will certainly put it way higher on my list. I drove a modern diesel A3 several years ago in Germany & fell in love with the engine (& the car too, for that matter). No diesel A3's or A4's in North America anytime soon, either. The Audi had a 1.9 litre & I think the Acura unit is a 2.2. That's about all I know, so far.

It's also interesting that Acura is looking at introducing a couple of diesels next year (Tsx & the SUV, I think), while Honda has to make do with hybrids. Looks like Honda Motor Co. thinks the diesel is more upscale.

I couldn't agree more.

blufz1

Disagree that diesel is more upscale. I think Honda must be concerned that they can't initially produce enough diesels for the Accord market and/or they want to maximize the profit by putting the diesels in the Acura line first. It is puzzling and disappointing to me.

cdnpinhead

I'll throw in with you regarding the production capacity to deal with diesels in the volumes Honda sells in the U.S. market (assuming those fickle Americans will really opt for an Asian diesel). Starting with an Acura almost no one buys (in the case of the TSX) is certainly a way to stick a toe in the water.

However, BMW, Benz & Audi appear to be putting their diesels in the bigger stuff first (if & when it actually happens). That sends me the message that they wish it to be perceived as a high-end item, as opposed to something that just goes on the (relatively) cheap stuff. If Acura actually comes through with the 2.2 in the TSX, it'll be the first one in a luxury (well Honda thinks so) brand's entry level vehicle sold in NA.

I'd really like to see the A3, small C or 1-series BMW diesels in the States, but I'm not holding my breath.

blufz1

Maybe this is not so strange. The TSX appears to be the apprxomate size of the european accord which is available with the diesel. I think the new accord may be to big for the 2.2 and may require a diesel v6 which is not quite ready for prime time.

satoauto

Just to clarify a few things. The new diesel will debut in North America in the TSX in calendar year 2009, it will probably be a 2010 model. I've got some information on the new engine on my site here; satoauto.com

cdnpinhead

Oh man! Bad news.

Based on your information, Acura is no closer than several of the others, but it does sound like it'll be worthy when it does arrive.

Thanks for the update/input.

nj2pa2nc

it would be nice if it were a turbo-diesel. as the owner of a 1976 mercedes 300d, 1980 mercedes 300sd, 1980 Volvo diesel, 1983 Mitsubishi Turbo-diesel Truck (a favorite)and a 1985 volvo turbo-diesel it would be nice to see more diesel vehicles in this country

satoauto

The new i-DTEC 4 cylinder is a turbo.

nj2pa2nc

sounding good so far but it would sound even better if they offer it with 6MT.

satoauto

I totally agree, but there are (in my opinion) a few problems. The diesel is expected to produce a lot of torque, more torque than any engine in our lineup. This means the TSX must use the V-6 transmission and most likely the SH-AWD system. This drivetrain has been out since 2003 in the RL and later in the RDX and MDX. To date, Acura has not developed a manual transmission to mate with this differential. Granted, the cars mentioned do not need a manual for their intended market, but it makes me wonder. Lastly, if the diesel is as torquy as expected, I seriously doubt you'll need to shift a lot and probably don't need 6 speeds!

nj2pa2nc

that was one of the problems with the 1987 Nissan maxima we owned-a 5spd MT-transmission replaced 3 times under warranty-too much power for the transmission. My last vehicle that was an automatic was a 1985 Volvo 740 Turbo diesel. Nomore automatic vehicles for me. I am a Manual transmission fan.

cdnpinhead

Since this is the European/Australian Accord, I'd assume that at least the European one would have had this diesel for some time, unless it's a brand new engine. I'd be stunned in a European diesel wasn't available with a manual transmission.

I guess I've got some more research to do.

timetobuy

A new post today from Edmunds about the new TSX:

http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/News/articleId=124472

Feb 6 sounds better than March and April for some light.

satoauto

thatsound good, but I still have my doubts we'll see the car then. The latest word I had was the car will premier at the Acura dealer show in April.

Having said that, most dealers (ourselves included) are very low on '08 TSX inventory. Since there are not too many 'sales to lose' on the old car, they might show a thinly veiled 'prototype' version at Chicago.

cameljocke

Satoauto-

Seems you are pretty much "in the know" w/ the Acura and TSX. I am looking at getting a 2008 model. Due to financial circumstances, I was hoping of getting a 2008 as late as possible to get the best possible price.

I am currently in So California. If the 2009 models arrive on the lot in late April, in your best estimate, when do you think dealers will have fully sold off their 2008 models?

I feel that the redesign of the 2009 will significantly bump up the cost ($500+ at least, IMO), and I know that it's intro will factor heavily into a price reduction of the 2008. Any help is greatly appreciated- thanks!

nj2pa2nc

I have to agree with you-the demand for manual transmission vehicles in the USA (especially suv's) is very low. I think they do have MT in the european diesel hondas.

upstatedoc

I am intrigued by the notion of putting a turbo-diesel in a sports sedan. Does anyone have any experience w/ this set-up? How are the driving dynamics? I owned a non-turbo sporty diesel in the late eighties, an '81 two door VW Rabbit! :P

cdnpinhead

I've driven an A3, an A4 and a Passat in Europe on business trips, all with the 1.9 litre TDi setup, and they were all great. The A3 was the first, back on '01, and if I could have, I'd have come home and bought one immediately.

Well, it's taken most of a decade, but it looks like North America is finally going to get with it. In fairness, the sulfur content of fuel had to be reduced before most of the European diesels could be sold here, but that was taken care of a couple of years ago. However, several states (California, most prominently) had tighter air pollution regs that came into effect a year or two ago, so what diesels that used to be sold here were discontinued (Rabbit, Passat, E-series Merc, etc.) until they could be modified to be acceptable in all 50 states.

The main feature of the TDi is the incredible torque, which translates into "right-now" acceleration, plus the ~40 mpg fuel economy.

Should be interesting.

nj2pa2nc

the turbo-diesel vehicles I owned-1980 mercedes 300sd, 1883 Mitsubishi truck (5spd MT) and a 1985 volvo 740. (should have bought the MT but it was sold so we settled for the automatic.) I do not knowif it has changed but it was a learning experience when I first drove a regular diesel. I never thought it would get up a mountain road we were on. I did finally get used to it even tho turbo was way better.

satoauto

The last order for 2008 TSXs went in two months ago, and the production line will close sometime this month (if not already). I don't know how dealer inventories are in So Cal, but our rep told me that most of his dealers in the Bay Area have less than a 60 day supply.

I'm in a unique position because we're pretty isolated here in Hawaii. We have nobody to dealer trade with so "what we have is what we have" We've got about 8 automatics, on hand and 4-5 more on the way.

Based on this information, I'm thinking that some of the incentives may start to taper off if Acura decides they don't need to 'lose money' on the financing to reduce dealer inventories.

I know this is not what you want to hear, but in my market, the best prices may have already passed. With only 8 cars to last 3 months, There isn't a pressing need to move out these cars.

Your market will be different, but I'm sure that color selection is already dwindling. Look at the individual dealers' webpages. Many post their inventory online so you might be able to get a feel for how many cars they have available. I can tell you that all of us are looking at only one more batch of cars. Good luck, the TSX is a wonderful car.

elemoncelli

The TSX is a logical choice for Acura's first diesel. The diesel 2.2 they are planning on selling over here with US emission controls is used in the European Accord which is the same size and I believe even style of the TSX here in the States. Same car = same engine.

repoman1

One post says the TSX will likely be unveiled at the Acura dealer show in April. Another post says diesel will not appear until 2010 model year. So the question is - will the 2009 TSX have a diesel or will it be delayed until 2010??

satoauto

I wouldn't call it delayed, rather a planned introduction. It would be very un-honda like to release a new model (diesel) in the middle of the model run (2009). The first 2009s are already ordered and while drivetrains were not mentioned, Acura has clearly stated the diesel will arrive in 2009.

Since this is 2008 I'm putting 1+1 together and forwarding the theory that the diesel will arrive in 2009 as stated, but it will be a 2010 model with the rest of the gas engined TSXs for that model year.

repoman1

I talked to a local Acura dealer. He confirmed what we already know. The 2009 TSX will debut in March at New York auto show with availability in spring. He said that the diesel is one of the engines listed but Honda has not told them when or if it will be available in the 2009 models. They have not been given list prices yet.

[Deleted User]

TSX Release

This was posted on another thread...

mr42hh

@cdnpinhead
I think they do have MT in the european diesel hondas.

They do. They don't have an automatic option in any diesel Honda.

repoman1

Talked to a dealer today. He said the 2009 TSX has just arrived - and ready to test drive. Also said that Honda has told them diesel and 6 cylinder will be available one year from now - on the 2010 TSX.

nj2pa2nc

test drove the 09 while my 06 was being serviced. It was a basque red pearl 6MT/w tech package. Wish it had a different front grill (I guess it is something you have to get used to). I was impressed on the way it handled.
Unless diesel prices come down- I do not think it is going to be a great seller. For the driving I do the 4-cylinder tsx works for me. I do mostly highway driving,get great gas mileage with enough power on my 6MT.

biker4

Unless there's a shift in typical MY changeover the 09 TSX will have an 18 mo run. Other than launch years, the TSX MY changeover takes place in Nov. so don't look for any changes till 11/09. The diesel addition might be the only change at that time.

coupedncal

Any good guess what the expected mileage of this TSX diesel will be here in the US? I am sure we can look at this CDI engine implementation in Europe and come up with a fair approximation. Any one here has done this research? Can we expect to get 40mgp or higher on the highway with the four cylinder diesel?

flats

Here is a nice short article about the diesel European-market 2007 Accord, aka Acura TSX. It returned 53 miles a gallon highway, 34 in the city (Manhattan) and 44 in combined driving.

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/motoring/2004433293_dieselhonda23.html?syn- - dication=rss

coupedncal

Thanks for sharing this link. It was a good read. Looks like the diesel offering will see light of day in early to mid 2009 as a 2010 model. Based on here and other site readings, I believe diesel will start off in Acura line and then tinkle down to Honda lineup 1-2 years later.