Ask Edmunds.com's Online Service Advisor

bonnie_rick

your opportunity to ask Edmunds.com's Online
Service Advisor, Neil Chirico, those questions
about his feature articles.

Please see Neil's articles at:

Dino Juice: What You Get When You Squeeze a
Million Years of Dinosaurs Together!

Maintenance Madness II: Dealer vs. Manufacturer
Maintenance Schedules


Maintenance Madness

Ford's 3.8-Liter V-6 Head Gasket Problem -
Straight Talk

Getting Some Lemon-Aid From Your Lemon Maker

Neil, why don't you introduce yourself to our
community?

Bonnie Rick
Conferences Manager, Edmunds.com Town Hall

neil_chirico

My name is Neil G. Chirico and I am the Edmunds.com Online Service Advisor. My 9+ years of experience has been at the dealership level as a Service Advisor. Yup, I was the guy you brought your vehicle into when you required service or maintenance work. My job was to work with both the customer and the service technician to ensure vehicles were properly serviced and maintained. I am here to answer your service advisor related questions, and hopefully provide you with some answers or at least point you in the right direction. I am not a technician and am not going to be able to help you diagnose your broken vehicle via the computer, but I can help with your service-related questions.

pat455

Welcome.

Your articles that Bonnie linked directly address several of our topics here, so I'm sure you will be well received and quite busy.

Nice to have you here!

Pat
Community Leader/Maintenance & Repair Conference

bnormann

Hi Neil,

You have a tough job.....I don't think many people would volunteer to be the one standing between the technician and the customer.

Welcome aboard.

Your host, Bruce

anonymous

Sometimes it was like being the tennis ball in a big tournament, I'd get hit back and forth all day. Challenging would be a good word.

wesl

Neil,
Here is a situation that I hope you can shed some light on. For the last year, my 95 Ford Contour has had A/C problems. Specifically, when travelling a lower speeds around town, the A/C shuts off. I runs fine on the highway. My mechanic checked out the problem, and found a leak and a bad relay. This helped somewhat, but a few weeks after this repair the A/C began to act up again. My mechanic could not figure out what the problem was, so he refunded me sixty dollars and told me to take the car to Ford. On his advice I took the car to the local Ford dealership. It took them four days to decide I needed an complete A/C system, with the exception of the evaporator and condensor. They said I had leaks at the front seal on the compressor, the manifold line, and the drier. They could complete the repairs for 1700. Well, I smelled a rat, so I picked up the car and paid my sixty three dollar diagnostic charge. My mechanic suggested that I take my car to another shop that specialized in A/C repairs. The same day I brought the car to the shop, they informed me that I had a bad clutch assembly and a leaking high pressure hose. They replaced all of those parts for 500, and the A/C has been fine ever since. Oddly enough, they said that no leaks were found where Ford said they were. I called the Ford dealer to ask for a refund, but they said no. Eventually they told me that they did not do "partial" repairs and they would only replace an entire system on a car with 102,000 miles. I say B/S. If Ford or any extended warranty company was footing the bill I feel certain that they would have made a partial repair. What say you? Thanks for you advice, Wes.

anonymous

Wes, I have several thoughts on this, so don't be offended by some of them, here goes. Technicians at the dealers work on an hourly labor rate basis, if they don't charge you they don't get paid. I know I do not work for free and neither would you, I am assuming. The reason I mention this is to explain why you were charged to inspect the vehicle. Inspecting an A/C system can be handled two ways, one is with a freon sniffing tool that beeps as it sniffs freon, the beeps sound at a faster rate the stronger the gas odor that is detected. The other method is simply a dye, injected into the system. The system must be run after this to work the dye through the whole system and eventually to leak out through any gaps. I am not sure which method they used for your inspection. The better method in my opinion is the dye, but that takes some time to use. I would recommend the owner drive the car for, say a week, and then come back for the inspection. With the sniffer tester mistakes can be made as A/C components are often close together under the hood. It is not surprising that A/C leaks are hard to find, since it is a gas, and unless the dye is used, invisible. Yes, the Ford dealer could have made a mistake. Yes, the technician could have recommended other components be replaced that were not leaking at the time, often that recommendation is based on experience. If you specialize in one make, like the dealer does you do see patterns of repairs on older vehicles and he may have been just trying to prevent you from having to come back. Lastly, yes, you could have gotten one of those technicians that was recommending more than he should have because he is just not very honest. Luckily I worked with some pretty honest techs over the years and would usually inject my best judgement in the situation. If he was recommended a component based on his experience of failures, I would, in turn, pass that information along to my customer and let them make the final decision on whether to replace it or not. But if they declined I would note it on the paperwork to cover myself and the technician. Just in case the vehicle came back with a similar failure in a short period of time, and it ending up being diagnosed a part we had originally recommended. The bottom line is Ford charged for an inspection that was performed even if it was diagnosed incorrectly. You have three options as I see it, one is the go up the ladder to Ford and complain, two is to contact your state's Bureau of Automotive Repair and see if they have any options for you, three is the let it go. Good Luck, I hope I gave you enough information to help in your decision.

0patience

What is that? I have never heard of it. I would like to hear more about it.I agree with you on the dye for the A/C,the sniffer tends to be at the interpretation of the user.

wesl

Anonymous,
My final decision is to let it go. After a few phone calls I felt that sixty three dollars is not worth my time and effort to reclaim. My biggest aggrevation with the diagnosis is not that the service advisor and tech recommended replacing most of the A/C system. I am annoyed that I was not given a choice. I told the service advisor that for some reason the clutch stopped coming on after ten to twenty minutes in traffic. The guy who finally fixed and properly diagnosed my car said that tapping on the clutch after it cut out brought it back on immediately. This led him to believe the clutch was bad, and he was correct. The Ford dealer did not give me a choice. They told me to repair the whole system, take it or leave it. The honest thing would have been : Mr. Customer, after inspecting your system, we feel that the clutch is bad and you have a leak in the high pressure line. However, based on our experience, we recommend that you replace the entire system. This is the only way that we can gauruntee your complete satisfaction. Had I been treated with a little respect and honesty, I would have gladly payed the sixty three bucks and never have asked for the money back. Because two other mechanics disagreed with Ford, I doubt the Ford tech was being honest. I used to work for this dealership two years ago, and the complaint levels are through the roof. I used this dealer because I knew all the SA's and most of the techs. Anyway, my A/C works fine for now and I am very happy with the service I received from AAA auto a/c in Harvey, LA. Later, Wes.

anonymous

In the long run you probably made the correct decision, since your time is worth more than the hassle of the time you would have spent to get the money back. It could be that the technician made the proper recommendations and they were not communicated properly to the service advisor or that he chose to ignore them, unfortunately we'll never know. My point, which you already stated, is that YOU should have been given the choice and were not.

neil_chirico

Ok, so I got a call this morning from Bonnie saying that my posts are being titled from anonymous. Well, I should clarify that post numbers 6 and 9, were posted by me, Neil, and I believe we have found the mistake to correct this for the future. Thank you for your patience.

neil_chirico

Here in California that is the title given to the bureau of the state government, that monitors the automotive repair facilities. Guidelines are set up by the state that act as rules and regulations. If you are dissatisfied with your service experience you may call the BAR and file a complaint, which is followed up on by that agency. The BAR is the law of the automotive service and repair world.

0patience

This is a state entity then? Do you happen to know which state entity it is under (CalTrans,justice dept or another)? It sounds like it is something that many states could benefit from. I know the state I live in doesn't have that and if something like that were implemented here, I could see a lot of benefit for the consumers. I'm going to have to research that some more.
Thanks.

neil_chirico

Hello all, I will be out of town until Tuesday the 22nd of August. I will away from the office on assignment, and will check back when I return.

Neil G. Chirico

evanosky

Hello Neil,
My sister has a 1996 mazda 626 that she purchased new in 96, after 4 years and 83,000 miles the transmission has just blown, the mechanic tells her that this is a common occurence in the mazda 626. Does she have any recourse? This sounds like a faulty part problem to me. I do not believe that transmissions should be dying after 4 years. I would expect this from a 10 to 20 year old car.

neil_chirico

First of all, I am assuming that you have an automatic transmission. Typically the only way you are offered after warranty assistance is if the vehicle has been serviced through the dealer for its entire life. It sounds like you are using an aftermarket service center for your servicing. The aftermarket facility can not make offers on the manufacturers behalf. If you have been servicing the vehicle through the Mazda dealer network then you may want to ask if any assistance is available on this repair. You may be asked to produce documentation that the vehicle was serviced properly, especially in the are of the transmission. I believe you are well past the mileage restrictions for any type of after warranty assistance programs, but it would not hurt to ask.

cookie22

can a power antenna be installed on a "1999 Mercury Villager Estate" Van ???
If so, what Brand and where can I get it??

stanevicius

Hello, my name is Tiffany and I just registered for the first time today and I live on Vancouver Island, British Columbia, Canada. My main reason for registering is that my 1992 Toyota Tercel (2 dr 5 speed)is burning a lot of oil (now at 150,000 km, oil started burning at approx. 120,000 km). I am trying to research this problem because I am having difficulty getting anywhere with my warranty. our Toyota dealer keeps telling me that my engine is just breaking in and some Tercels do that. I find that unacceptable. I am going through 3 litres of oil between oil changes (6,000 km). I don't know if my engine is going, I know that cylinder 3 was low and cylinder 4 is dry. Is there anyone out there that could guide me in the right direction to get some evidence to whether this is an engine problem or just normal wear and tare?? I am trying to cover this under my extended warranty, they tell me it is normal wear and tare. I appreciate your help.

neil_chirico

That could indeed be a normal noise for that engine. What I would recommend is to contact other Pontiac dealers or General Motors direct to verify what the original dealer stated. I would also recommend that you make sure that you have the engine noise concern documented on each of your service visits to your local dealer for either maintenance or repairs.

neil_chirico

I would first recommend a call to your local Mercury dealer to see if Ford makes one for your vehicle. You may also want to try your local Nissan dealer also since they are involved in the design of the vehicle. If you can not find a power antenna through either of those sources I would try some local stereo installation shops as they may have an after-market brand that will work for your application. On-line you can try http://www.crutchfield.com/ or just do a search for other automotive stereo retailers.

neil_chirico

Every manufacturer has an allowance for oil consumption, and they do differ. Check with your local dealer and get a copy of the paperwork that shows what the manufacturer allows for consumption. If you can not get an answer at that level then call Toyota direct and ask for the information. You should document every time you add oil the date, mileage, and how much you added. You dealer should have a procedure called an oil consumption test where they change the vehicles engine oil and filter and put in a measured amount of oil. You are then to drive the vehicle a measured distance (varies by manufacturer)and if you require oil, have the dealer make note of it and top it up. Once you have driven the recommended distance the dealer will remove the oil and measure it again to see how much, if any, oil is lost. That should help the dealer and you determine the seriousness of your concern.

kimc1

3 weeks ago, I purchased a 1997 Buick Regal after having it inspected by Pep Boys. I won't go into my experience with Pep Boys but they gave me a verbal report that the car was in excellent condition. From the title, it appears this was a leased car. The dealer did not have records of maintenance for the car and the maintenance book did not have any entries. Currently I drive over 200 miles a day, on country roads with a lot of fast acceleration. Going from 55 to 90 in seconds to pass before the next hill or curve. Have thought about changing all the fluids: oil, transmission, brake, coolant and having all the maintenance done that needs to be done during the first 50,000 miles. This way I would know that everything that should have been done, was done. Is this too extreme? What would you advise be done maintenance wise after purchasing a used car with no maintenance records?

dfclbc

I have a 2000 Volvo S80 T6, and the AM reception is absolutely horrendous. I was wondering if anyone knows if it is possible to add a small external antenna and bypass the Volvo antenna in the back window. Has anyone had or heard of this problem? If so, what resolved it? Thanks

tonybse

Hi, i've just bought a VW Jetta, 1992. I need to know a reliable mechanic located near to Addison, IL. Do you know somebody? Thanks in advance.

neil_chirico

As you mentioned no service records were available with the vehicle. So, unless you can find the facility that the vehicle was serviced at, you are out of luck with any previous maintenance records. I would say the best way to get peace of mind would be to follow through with what you had stated and do the maintenance up through the current mileage interval. Keep in mind that many of the recommended maintenance items do repeat, so make a list of the services you would like to have done starting with the first scheduled interval and continuing through the current interval. You may want to read through Maintenance Madness (http://www.edmunds.com/edweb/editorial/features/maintenancemadness/maint1.html) and Maintenance Madness II (http://www.edmunds.com/edweb/editorial/features/maintenancemadness/maint2.html) to further help in your decisions on what maintenance to have done.

neil_chirico

I would first contact your local Volvo dealer to see if any other owners have reported the same concern. If the dealer has not had any other reports of poor AM reception, then you may have an isolated case. I would recommend to have the dealer look at it first, as I am assuming the vehicle is still under warranty. If you do not get satisfaction through the Volvo dealer, they do have the option of contacting Volvo for repair assistance. Volvo does make available factory representatives that the dealer can schedule to inspect your vehicle for these types of special circumstances that require factory intervention.

neil_chirico

I'll pose that question to our other Edmund's Town Hall members who may live in the same area of the country as you. I would also recommend you review "How To Evaluate A Repair Facility" (http://www.edmunds.com/edweb/editorial/HowTo/repair.html) which will be helpful for what ever area of the country that you live in.

pat455

Tonybse has already posed this question in a number of topics here in this conference, so maybe he/she will get a suggestion somewhere. ;->

I have a similar problem as dfclbc with my 99 Acura TL radio. The lower end FM reception and AM reception are terrible in this supposedly upscale Bose system. This vehicle also has the rear window antenna.

The only car radio I compare this one to is my '89 Accord which had no special radio whatsoever, but had an external antenna. The reception in that radio was FAR better than what I have now.

I have talked to the dealer every time I've been there, and every time they tell me it is "within specs" - I too have wondered if an external antenna would correct this. Do you know if this is possible? Should I press the service manager to get a factory rep involved? I have not asked him if he has had other complaints, but I have seen some posts around here with complaints similar to mine.

If an external antenna is possible and would solve the problem, I'd sure be willing to go that route, even if I had to pay for it (I think!).

Pat
Community Leader/Maintenance & Repair Conference

neil_chirico

I would recommend working with Acura as far as your patience will last, see if they have a Acura representative who can inspect your vehicle. Although the reception may be "within specs" that should not require you to put up with poor reception. My experience with window mounted antennae has been similar to what you have experienced in that the quality of reception may not be as good as that of an externally mounted antenna. Once you have exhausted all of your options, and patience, through Acura you may want to seek out an audio specialist in your area to check on available options for better reception. Your options would most likely include either an externally mounted antenna, or a powered antenna (Harada or Hirschmann brands) because typically the stereo head unit is not responsible for the poor reception.

pat455

Thanks Neil.

I need to go back next month. This time I will talk to the service manager on the phone first about this and see if he will pursue this.

There are a number of car audio specialists around here, I'll keep your suggestions in mind. Yes, it sure seemed to me that the antenna is the most likely culprit.

Pat
Community Leader/Maintenance & Repair Conference

stanevicius

Thanks Neil for the input, I should have mentioned that the local dealer has been recording the amount of oil that my car is going through. Apparently, the amount of oil that it burns does not equal meet their ratio. But I can't see how 3 litres of oil in 6,000 km doesn't constitute a problem. Any other ideas?

neil_chirico

Make sure you get a copy of the manufacturer's allowable guideline for oil consumption, the dealer should have some paperwork with this information. If the dealer does not have this information, ask them to acquire a written copy of the manufacturer's guideline for you, otherwise how do they really know what is allowable? Once you have that information in hand, you can compare the amount of oil the manufacturer lists as normal consumption with what your records show and you will have your answer. Unfortunately, each manufacturer sets the allowable consumption guideline for their vehicles, and they can be higher than you would expect. Good luck.

md_tech

Being a service advisor has to be a pretty difficult job... My advisor is great, although with all she put's up with between the techs and the customer I don't know how she does it sometimes. I have a great respect for advisors especially the ones that every once in a while come back in the shop and ask questions,so they can familiarize themselves with what they need to explain to the customer!!!!

Kristina/co host Our Turn

cheewy75

I would like some input on the following. I noticed what I thought was a nudge forward in our 99 Passat when I stepped on the brake like at stop lights. Then I just thought oh the car is just stopping. Well, the other day I was parking. There was a stick in the parking spot. I put the car in park pulled the hand brake up went out moved the stick, got back into the car, put my foot on the brake, put the car in drive, let the hand brake off and the car shot over the concrete piece of the parking space (I had 2 ft left to pull into the space) and went into the tree, hard. I want to know if anyone has heard of this in passats or vw's and I want to know who can check the workings of this car besides a vw dealer who may or may not be honest with me about a very dangerous problem. Thanks, Cheewy

teo

Hi Neil:

I currently own a 2000 Chevy Impala LS, purchased new around 6 months ago. The car right up until now has been flawless. However, during the last routine maintenance inspection, the dealer tech detected abnormal vibration coming from the A/C Compressor unit whenever the vehicle's engine (3800 Series II V-6)returns to a 'Full' idle after a normal stop. The A/C system still churns out lots of 'cold' air normally into the cockpit, but the noise/sudden vibration persists.

In the end, the service guy decided to order a brand new replacement A/C Compressor unit from GM (Under warranty) to avoid taking any further chances with the system. The part is scheduled to arrive sometime next week and which point the installation will take place.

My questions are.....is this "vibration" a sign that the compressor is just about to self-destroy? Does this apparent 'Vibration' warrant the replacement of the Compressor? Are they overlooking other areas that could be causing the problem? Is this an isolated case of a bad defective part? Are new GM A/C units prone to breakdown this early?

My car has only 7,700 miles on the clock. I was expecting to replace the A/C Compressor in about 5 to 7 years time not within the first 6 months of ownership. Nevertheless I am pretty much satisfied with the car and the level of dealer service.

I would appreciate a second opinion...

Thanks!

neil_chirico

I have not heard of this type of concern with VW's, but a similar issue had come up many years ago on another brand of vehicle, labeled unintended acceleration. You could check the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA)to see if they have any similar concerns documented. The web site is at http://www.nhtsa.com/

neil_chirico

Typically you can experience an A/C compressor failure in one of several ways. First the compressor can just plain seize, which is usually easy to diagnose as you would be likely to have belt squeal noise from under the hood and eventually belt breakage. A/C compressors can leak freon just like any component in that system, usually noted when the system fails to cool you properly. Lastly the compressor can have an internal failure (yes, vibration could be a sign of a premature failure of the compressor), which would also equal little to no cool air coming out of the system. Since the concern was noticed by the technician and not yourself, I would guess that one of two things occurred. This is an known concern for your type of vehicle and the service staff is looking for possible defective units, or the technician noticed this concern on your vehicle only, either way it should be replaced under warranty. You should not have any concerns about it, as it is better to occur now than when you are paying for it. Keep in mind that any component can fail at any time, some vehicles just seem more prone to it. I have not heard any similar concerns, you may want to query other Town Hall members to see if this is a problem on your vehicle.

hulagirl

I'm purchasing a 2001 Ford F-150 Super Crew (it's being built right now) and I would like some advice on extended warranties. I typically drive 15,000 miles per year in stop and go traffic in Hawaii. Is an extended warranty a good idea and what should the cost be? The dealer quoted just over $1,000 for a 6/60000 bumper to bumper. That won't work for me, as I do more miles, but I also am aware the price will jump up when I add mileage to the warranty. HELP!!!

Hulagirl

paboy

could anybody help me please.... I have a 1996 ford winstar with 63,000 miles manufactured in April of 1996 with a blown head gasket.Ford is telling me that there is no assistance with this repair. being that my mechanic states ford still has not fixed the problem from the 1995 windstar can you provide me with options....ie list of phone numbers emails.... thanks jim

hustad

I have a 96 Lexus 400 with 30M miles. Last week I was side swiped with damage estimated by adjuster over 19M. When I asked the dealer about trading for a new Lexus, he told me that NO LEXUS dealer in the country is allowed to trade a Lexus with man frame damage. Does anyone know if this is true.
Thanks

edfaetz

Have you heard of any problem with corroded brake lines in 1992 crown vics? I have 97,000 miles on the vehicle and the rear brake lines are rusted through. I feel that this is a premature failure. Also, the dealer said that he cannot replace the brake lines alone. the repair requires the replacement of the fuel lines and the brake lines since they are all bundled together. The repair will cost over $800!!!!

neil_chirico

Look for a complete story on just that subject, extended warranties, in the next week. The information included will answer all of your questions.

neil_chirico

My background is in service, so unfortunately I can not answer your question as I have no body-shop experience. You could try to contact Lexus customer assistance direct to ask for the answer to your question. Lexus can be contacted at 1-800-USA-LEXUS.

neil_chirico

I have not heard of this type of concern and part of my background is as a Ford service advisor. It sounds like they corroded together and hence the reason for replacement of both the fuel and brake lines. Ask for a discount on the repair or some coupons to help cut your costs. The worst they can say is, no. You could always shop another dealer to compare prices.

kwatkins5

I have a 1996 I30 that I purchased in October 1999. Everything was going great until the hot summer weather of Atlanta hit. Since then, the car has been inexplicably stalling; at stop signs, in low speeds and and at idle. I have taken it back to the dealership where I learned that the previous owner has experienced the same ongoing problem. The service department (according to them) can't find anything wrong! Ordinarily, I would say this was a case of "gottcha!", but the dealership (by way of maintenance history) knew of this car's unsolvable problem and sold it anyway. My question is twofold; what if any recourse do I have on this dealership, and has anyone else experienced a similar problem with 1996 I30's?

neil_chirico

Was the vehicle a Lemon Law by-back vehicle? If so, and this fact was not disclosed to you then you would have some recourse. If not, then it would depend on your state's used car Lemon Laws. Check out the link below, to point you in the right direction for assessing the possibility that you have a Lemon: http://www.edmunds.com/edweb/editorial/features/lemon/lemon.html

wilcox

Neil,
I went and got me 4 quarts of ATF fluid for my Toyota Camry. Removed the plug at the bottom of the transaxel and let all the old fluid drain out. Put back in 3 quarts of new ATF fluid and checked dipstick. It said there was too much.
Started filling empty containers with old fluid. Could only fill up 2 containers and a small fraction of other. Had to drain off some fluid to get back to normal level.
Seeing how about 60 percent of the fluid was replaced, should I be overly concerned for another 15-20K miles? This is first change ever...55K miles now.

neil_chirico

Because of the recent advent of power flush machines I can see no reason why you would not, and should not, want to replace 99% instead of only 60% of the fluid. With any automatic transmission you have a semi-sealed torque-converter that with the transmission in the vehicle, can only have its fluid replaced with some type of fluid exchange machine. Basically what the exchange machine does is to pump fresh clean fluid in until you get 99% of the dirty fluid back out. Of course, the downside is that this process costs more money to have done, but the benefits should largely cover any additional costs incurred. You may want to check the feature on Maintenance Madness (http://www.edmunds.com/edweb/editorial/features/maintenancemadness/maint2.html) where we look at some of the extra maintenance items available to you and some of the benefits.

wilcox

Has the "older" fluid circulated from the semi-sealed torque-converter and mixed with the "newer" fluid?
My thoughts are that if the two have fully mixed(driven car 200 miles), then another draining and refill would assure a potential of, say 84% fluid refurbishment. That's not too bad for a sealed system I would think. If you were a person with little $ resources, then could you live with this condition? Wouldn't this enhance the tranny life by the same 84%?

wilcox

I think that I have found the answer to my post 51 questions... If anyone is interested, then go here :

http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/engaged/edmund.cgi?a=r&c=Maintenance&t=15

see post 297 and beyond...

rodsautoconsul

I had to replace my altenator for the second time yesterday with 40k. Altenator specialists say that if I have a 4 yr old battery regardless if it is fully charged and checked by my mechanic, I should replace the battery when I replaced the altenator. The specialist also said that GM makes the parts in Mexico ,outside U.S.using lightweight parts compared to heavy duty like in the sixties and seventies. Either one true? Rod