Good Styling

fezo

"I always liked the 90-93 models, for their homogeneous styling, bordering on blandness, but in a pleasant way. "

Boy, that's a quote that works for nearly 30 years of Accords.... Some definitely better than others.

I liked the flip headlight generation a lot and loved the wagon. You still see enough of the wagons to make you wonder why they felt they weren't worth the bother. I'd have bought one in 99 if they still made them. The sedan has served us awfully well.

andys120

1999-2003 Acura TL, (IMO of course).

andre1969

You still see enough of the wagons to make you wonder why they felt they weren't worth the bother.

My guess is that the Odyssey was more profitable for Honda, so they would rather you blow a few more bucks on one of them, than on an Accord wagon. I still see Accord wagons occasionally. Even though it's pretty obvious that the styling was done on the cheap, using as much of the 4-door as possible, I think it came off as an attractive package. Much better than what Toyota did with the '92-96 Camry wagon.

fezo

Oh, I'm sure that the wagon was a victim of "there's more money in vans." Too bad.

Back in 99 if a Legacy wagon was a little longer in the leg we would have bought one. Doesn't matter with my legs but my wife is another story.

Andy - I'm with you. That's one nice looking car - and at the same time you know it's from Honda.

nippononly

That was a nice-looking model, but I do feel that the '04 and up was a better-looking car. The new '09 can take its place at the end of the line as the worst-looking of the TLs...

andre1969

I like the '04+ model better, myself. It just seems bolder, probably because of the more angular features. I also like the smaller-sized headlights. That being said, I think that '99-03 era model is still attractive.

I also like those old "pillared hardtop" styles they had for awhile. It started off as the Vigor, but wasn't the first TL also a pillared hardtop?

fezo

You won't get much argument on that last point!

fintail

What, don't you think this is good looking?

:P

fezo

I don't mind that myself. I liked the Accord better but that one's fine. I like the two wipers on the back. Nice touch. One more part to replace... I still see a few of those around here as well.

fintail

I'll admit for some reason I liked the two wipers too...but the angle of the C-pillar isn't exactly handsome to me, and it seems too rounded and bulging. The 90s, I guess that sums it up.

I see them all the time out here too. I've also noticed a lot of Toyota Previas are still on the road here.

nippononly

But has ANY wagon EVER truly stood out in terms of styling? They have to be functional first don't they? That's why the back end of the Camry wagon had to "bulge", to maximize cargo space. That was a very spacious wagon.

fezo

Yeah, I still see a few Previas around. Knew someone that had one for ages. If he could have kept it running forever he'd still have it. I don't think it really had a problem with it at the end but even with a reliable car I guess at one point the repair paranoia kicks in. I think it got replaced by that Accord wagon which they still have.

lemko

For some reason, those Camry wagons make me think of these:

andre1969

about the '92-96 Camry wagon is the back door and the C-pillar. It looks like it was carried over from the 1987-91 style, and just seems out of place on the '92-96. And then the whole rump...D-pillar, the way the beltline swoops up, the oversized taillights, and just the overall shape of the rump just doesn't work, style-wise.

However, as Nippon pointed out, that awkward looking rump probably helps out a lot with cargo space. Might actually hurt it though, when it comes to loading and unloading. I'm presuming that thing has a hatch that lifts up, and not a regular tailgate. That's going to make it a little harder to duck under for tall people. If it had more slope to it, then the hatch would lift more out of the way of the opening. Oh well, ya can't have everything.

andys120

But has ANY wagon EVER truly stood out in terms of styling?







I could go on but need I say more? (FWIW, I owned an Audi A4/B5 Avant Quattro like the above.)

andre1969

And let's not forget...

:shades:

fintail

These aren't too shabby either

andys120

Andre sneaks a MoPar in, Fintail gets a Fintail in. ;

Of course you can't forget the classics>

bumpy

Yeah, it's mainly the rear of the '98-02 coupe that catches my eye. Very futuristic, almost sci-fi looking.

Yep, mostly because it was cribbed from the NSX.

bumpy

wasn't the first TL also a pillared hardtop?

Yep, frameless windows. I kinda like the 01-03 CL, but some people think it's too ungainly for a coupe.

andre1969

I like that generation of CL, but really didn't care so much for the earlier style, the one that had a bit of bustleback to it. I thought it had a really nice interior, but outside it just couldn't hide the fact that it was a Versailles-ed up Accord. And it really seemed to pale compared to the two Legend coupes that came before it.

Speaking of Legends, I really liked the first-gen coupe. I think most people prefer the second, though. Did those early Legend coupes have any particular trouble spots?

fintail

I think that spoiler on the Accord really hinders the look.

As they say, spoilers spoil good design.

fintail

There's slated to be a woody exhibit at the local concours this weekend. I hope to get some good pics.

nippononly

Come come now! You guys bring me 5 models all older than 40 years (a different era for automotive styling, to say the least) and an Audi Avant wagon/hatch thingy with about 20% of the space behind the back seat that the Camry wagon had?

Surely you can do better! :-P

andys120

This one isn't 40 years old, it's a contemporary of the Camry wagon>

1997 Holden Commodore VT


...or you could carry the Camry in the back of one of these>

1996 Buick Roadmaster

andre1969

I always thought the Saab 9-5 wagon was decent looking:


I may be in the minority here, but I always liked the Saturn L-series wagon, too:


The 1987-91 Camry wagon didn't have an exciting mark on it, but I still think the overall shape is smooth, clean, and pleasing:


I also think the 1986-1995 Taurus wagon has aged rather gracefully:


And going back again to the time of the Red scare, segregation, and tv housewives putting on their finest necklaces to vacuum the house, one interesting idea in cars was blending the hardtop with the wagon, like this 1957 Buick Caballero...



Neat looking car, but I've seen them up close and they really don't look like they were very practical. That radical C-pillar sure must have made loading anything through the back door difficult. Heck, I imagine even getting in and out of the back seat required a contortionist! They really didn't have a very big load area, either, and the low roof and slope at the rear definitely down on room.

To be fair though, most wagons were getting sort of like that in the 50's. Cars were getting longer and a bit wider, but also lower. And that lower aspect is what cut into loading space. In 1957, I imagine the most useful wagon was probably the most outdated...that tall, upright Chevy/Pontiac wagons The rest of GM, Ford, and Chrysler all restyled that year, going for that longer/lower/wider idiom that was all the rage.

andys120

Good selection Andre, I agree re: the Saab 9-5, except for the current version with it's excess chrome in the nose.

The Saturn L-Series looked better as a wagon than as a sedan but wasn't that great either way, probably couldn't carry any more than my '98 A4 either.

I saw one of those '87-'91 Camry Wagons the other day, they're not bad.

The 1960s saw some nice wagons too>

'67 Buick>


'66 Ford>


'66 Plymouth>

andys120

...and it'll really haul (300HP-AWD!)

andre1969

Is that a stock color on that Volvo wagon? I think it's pretty sharp looking. It would've looked at home on a 50's or 60's car, but carries over well to modern times.

Nice to see that Volvo addressed my issue with clearance under the open hatch, as well, by making it curve up and about a foot into the roof, so that it opens up and out of the way.

andys120

....clearance under the open hatch, as well, by making it curve up and about a foot into the roof, so that it opens up and out of the way.

I'm not sure if it cuts into the roof, it's the spoiler that comes with the V70R package and I have no idea if it's a stock color.

fintail

I wouldn't kick this out of my garage



Nor this



The 210 E55 wagon never came to this continent, but I wouldn't mind one of those either

andys120

E-class Benzes are my favorite Mercs, especially the wagons. Make mine an E320TD.

fintail

I've thought the 211 and 210 wagons are decent looking too. That C wagon has kind of a weird beltline that doesn't help I guess.

bumpy

Did those early Legend coupes have any particular trouble spots?

Not really; just the usual Honda bugaboos- the leather wore out, they burn some oil as the miles rack up toward 200k, the captive rotors, the finicky '80s emissions devices, and they ride like the Japanese luxury cars they are without most of the sportiness one might expect from a Honda (although that can be remedied).

extech2

Here is my theory why all Japanese cars look the same. Well, to start, they are all designed in the same building. There is a little office in Tokyo with a microwave oven, six guys and a computer, and their job is to come up with next year's 4-door family sedan. Right next to them is another room with six younger men, they are working on next year's 2-door coupe. In another room across the hall three women, (two of them called Michiko) are planning the next hot minivan. They used to have four ladies on the minivan team, but one got pregnant and her husband won't allow her on the subway. When every team completed the assignment, the plans are distributed by courier among the chief designers of Honda, Toyota, Nissan and Mazda. They can make all the changes as long as they are limited to the grill, headlights, and the taillights. Once Honda and Toyota are done, all new plans are faxed over to Korea, so those guys can hack it too until they come out with a revolutionary new grille, and then the blueprints go out to the factories. Come September, we get to admire eight or nine brand new 4-door sedans from five companies, which all look exactly the same except the taillights. Kia and Hyundai are the same company, don't let anyone tell you otherwise. Poor little Subaru is not in the group, that's why their cars look completely different. Subaru made a commitment to ugly with their very first design, and no amount of plodding from Car and Driver magazine could change their determination.
Once in a while a maverick team gets hold of a case of vodka, (it's called Sake in Japan) and they design something which upsets the rules, like the FX35 or the Murano. Nissan needs to be told that it's not allowed to drink on the job because the results might violate the fundamental principles of UJCD, (Uniform Japanese Car Design, also called Feng-shui by their college educated elite.)
All sarcasm aside, the Italians used to build some great looking cars, (how about the Miura??) but lately we haven't seen too many masterpieces from that part of the world either. It must be that new Global Warming thingy, it just destroys the creative brain cells, regardless where you live. If you don't believe me, ask Al Gore, he has all the technical details. What a great movie, that Al, one day he might end up as our vice president, you never know. If he does, we must request Toyota to rename the Prius after him, and I suggest we call it the Algore Express. Here in California, which is the only bilingual state in the Republic of Mexico, the car would be called the Algore Pronto.

writer

I am sorry but I do not find thinly disguised racist bigotry funny. I hope the moderators get around to deleting the above posting.

extech2

It is becoming the norm in our country to call the messenger racist if we don't like the message. Freedom of speech is censored to protect the easily offended. By the way, I thought the forum is about cars, not race relations.

iluvmysephia1

hey, where do you put my car's maker, Mitsubishi, in all of this? Are they in the same group as Nissan, breaking from the norm, and creating unique designs, in your opinion? Or just more of the same Japanese middle-of-the-road blah machines?

I think they work independently of Hon-Toy-Sub-Nis-Maz, etc., but watch the Corolla and Civic and Sentra from a distance to observe design trends. And race their Lancer's and Outlander's and change their designs based on racing success. The racing design integration is a part of their business strategy and that cannot be denied. Eh?

andys120

I don't know if your post was intended to be satirical or what but there are plenty of apparently gratuitous racial/national stereotypes in it it and dragging Global Warming and Al Gore into it is just plain pointless.

guss

I thought it was a bold move by Dodge to come out with these.



I am with andy though. I think Audi does the best wagons.

writer

I was thinking that I do not even know where the word "stationwagon" came from. I might look it up later. Anyway, if you think about it, there has been a lot of action in this segment over the last few years. The PT Cruiser was one of the highlights for me. I like the Mazda 3 "5-door" hatchback (which might not be in the US, but is sold up here in Canada). I also like the Mazda 5 and the Kia Rondo. The Matrix and the Vibe are in this segment too. The Saturn Astra 5 door is good, but I hear there will be something better coming from GM next year.

I hear that the Chevy HHR is selling well in the US. I did not really like that one, but for those who do, I am sure they are glad GM made them. I still wish they had come out with something more like a PT Cruiser. Oh well.

andre1969

I think the station wagon might have its roots in something that was called a Depot Hack. It was a vehicle built for resorts, hotels, and the like, to transport guests and their luggage back and forth from the railroad station. Here's a pick of an old Model T Depot Hack:

imidazol97

"The first station wagons were a product of the age of train travel. They were originally called 'depot hacks' because they worked around train depots as hacks (short for hackney carriage, an old name for taxis). They also came to be known as 'carryalls' and 'suburbans'. The name 'station wagon' is a derivative of 'depot hack'; it was a wagon that carried people and luggage from the train station to various local destinations."

I thought it meant a utility vehicle (estate car) for suburbanites to commute to the train station to get to work. Andre had the right idea in his post. My knowledge is colored by my midwest roots. We didn't have train stations for commuting to work; you just walked out the back door toward the barn and the farm implements! :P The concept of commuting to work was a large city and east coast quality.

lemko

guss

:confuse:

Anyway, this is one of the better ones I have seen in the past few years.

andre1969

How, exactly, DOES one draw the line between a station wagon and a hatchback?

It used to be easy back in the day when many cars actually offered both styles. For instance, the 80's Escort had both a 4-door hatchback and a wagon. But once you start eliminating rear overhang and making the back end of the car more vertical, the distinction really starts to blur.

andys120

You make a very good point, cars like the PT Cruiser, Chevy HHR and Mazda3 5dr.
are often thought of as hatchbacks but are really small SWs and they are selling well.

I still wish they had come out with something more like a PT Cruiser.

I'm not sure how the HHR could be more like the PT Cruiser unless Chryco made it. I like the Magnum too, Guss, the practicality is not as great as those old Caprice and Crown Vic wagons but it sure looks cool and I imagine it'd tow w the best of 'em. Too bad they dropped it it was the last full-size RWD Yank Tank wagon.

Also inexplicably axed, the hatchback and wagon versions of the Mazda6 , which looked pretty cool IMO.

andys120

.....and one very cool Italian that may be coming to us>

Alfa Romeo 159 Sport Wagon

We can't very well talk styling without looking at what the Italians are doing. :shades:

lemko

I've always thought these were awesome:

andre1969

I always liked those big brutes, too. Kind of a shame though, that Chrysler didn't use the Imperial/New Yorker style front-end, with the waterfall grille and hidden headlights. That would've been a sweet looking ride!