Edmunds dealer partner, Bayway Leasing, is now offering transparent lease deals via these forums. Click here to see May lease deals!
Options
Popular New Cars
Popular Used Sedans
Popular Used SUVs
Popular Used Pickup Trucks
Popular Used Hatchbacks
Popular Used Minivans
Popular Used Coupes
Popular Used Wagons
Comments
It's perfectly normal and the rust is gone as quickly as backing out of your driveway. Check the rotors on your current car after it's been sitting for a day or two. You'll find the same thing. The difference is that with some wheel designs you see the Rotors and thus the surface rust more easily. With Saabs you can see the Rotors very clearly. It's normal and NOT a problem.
I can't really speak to Body rust issues with Saab. Our '94 did have some cropping up inside a rear door that I thought was odd. We purchased it used and have no idea if there was any body work done. Our '98 never showed a rust problem and of course our '02 isn't even a year old yet.
Good luck
Drew
http://www.planetsaab.com/faq_test.html
Go to the bottom and read the last question. According to the site, I need to pull up the carpet to check the rust out. Don't know if the dealer will allow me to do that.
Also, another website said "The only Saab model I would advise against is the 2.5L/V6 GM engine (1994-1998)." Hope that's not the old version of the current 3.0L in the 9-5. Besides turbo failure, what other problems do you guys have with your cars?
Most of the problems with the 9-5 seem to be electrical. But that's the problem with most expensive cars so the 9-5 is no worse than anything else on the road.
I aasked the dealer about the 9-5s and their battery and headlight problems. He didn't know what I meant. I said I'd read about batteries going after two years and headlight burning out, for a car that touts it's safety, having lights go out is not particularly comforting. He said "well, they don't go out completely, it's a high intensity halogen bulb and they just get a lot dimmer. We replace it free the first time." I said "Why should I have to pay for a Saab design flaw. If this happens a lot, then get a decent headlight in there...they do make them you know. If these guys build fighter jets, but can't get a decent light bulb in their cars, then I pity Olaf over Stockholm when his Viggen instruments conk and he has a flameout."
However, if light bulbs are the worst thing that happens...compared to turbos going, etc. that's not too bad. Might as well buy the xenons when they go, or they should give you a deal on them. Or is it teh xenons that are the ones burning out?
cdndriver
(ps, thanks for all the suggestions on pricing, etc. There's a company here where you pay 50 bucks and they will give you all the invoice and incentive info.[we can't get it for free up here] and if you want they have contacts and call dealer fleet people and sales mgrs and get very good deals for you from three dealers, often close or below invoice. And you get your fifty bucks back when you go in to pick up the car. they go through the fleet or it guys, and bypass the salesmen.)
Consider, for example, the SAAB lights burn out at 1 yr or 12K miles. Compare that to a Honda Accord without DRL. Those lights last about 4 yrs/48K...when the car is driven at night about 25% of hte time.
To prevent this from occuring, remove fuse 35 from the interior fuse panel. Doing so makes your headlight switch work the same as other cars. Removing fuse 35 was the very first thing I did to my car when I brought it home from the dealer.
When I mentioned electrical problems I was referring to things like lights, batteries, SID failures, things like that which a few owners have complained about. It's not a major problem or epidemic with the cars and I'm sure that other cars have their own little electrical problems. Dealers seem to do a good job in satisfying customers so you should have some support there.
Bretfraz
If I remembered correctly, after you removed fuse 35, you are still using the original light bulbs? If that's the case, I will consider doing that too.
In Canada, we must have DRL on. It's the law. Now if Acura, Lexus, Benz, Audi,BMW and others can build a car with the same high intensity lights,but theirs don't burn out frequently, and thier batteries don't go bad within a couple of years, then why can't the fighter jet building trolls in Sweden do it. I would think it's a nobrainer. Find a bulb that works for places that need lights on all the time, and replace them with those, instead of telling the customer that it's a wear and tear item, so it's on their ticket, and try to earn customer care points by giving people a free one. Why should people plunking down all this cash for this "luxury"high-tech car have to pay for Saabs design flaw? I don't buy the "because they're on all the time they burn out faster" theory. the headlight makers aren't seeing this as a chance to "cash in on Canadians." It's one of those little irritating things that, if I were an owner, would start to bug me. If they can't handle something as rudimentary as this, then what bigger, more important things are they messing around with. Especially when they are using safety as a big selling point: driving in the dark isn't a confidence inspiring activity.
I'll stop ranting now....
cdndriver
If you like the V6 go for it, it has to be better than that first V6 Saab used. But I just got a 95 Aero this weekend and I love the car and the 4 cylinder. It reminds me of a refined version of my old 900 SE. (Minus the adjustable Koni's.)
BTW, I forget how bad the Pilot's are on dry roads. I know it's winter now here in the Northern US, but for summer I *really* need to get a set of Bridgestone Potenza S03 Pole Positions for this new car...
I would like to get a Saab. I like it's interior and styling. I just want to make sure I know every possible "failure or problems" the car will have. BTW, is your Aero 2003? Is the ride comfortable? My choice will be a used one, probably 1999. So I won't have to debate between a V6 or an Aero. Oh, Edmunds have both the 1999 4cyl and 6cyl at 7.5 seconds. Do you know the 1/4mile time for this car? I also want to use it for smoking those import cars, especially the japanese one.
While looking for a used 9-5, in my search for a car, I found a 2001 9-5 aero wagon with only 21,000kms on it. "Hmmm," I thought,"this could be intersting." I called the man and he said it was in excellent condition and a real good deal. I asked if it had ever been in an accident and he said no, but...it had been vandalized. They broke in the windows, stole the airbag and the wheels, and scratched the paint. The Insurance wrote off the car. He has a garage that specializes in Saabs and fixed it up with OEM parts. He repainted it and says you can't really tell anything was ever wrong with it. I don't know if it's even worth going out to look at it. If it was just those cosmetic things, perhaps it could be a good find, or it could be even more scary than I want to think. So, what would you folks do?
cdndriver
Since you mentioned airbag, I have a question that's unrelated to the topic. Once an airbag is deployed, how are they going to be replaced? Will it work perfectly for the second time?
my 2000 aero was purchased in november 1999.
currently 47,000 miles.
car has great stability at high speeds (in usa this means 80 to 100 mph sustained )have had it to 125 for a few minutes and still good.
problem areas---------
4 ecm's replaced
head light bulbs --took fuse out for daytime .
center console lock mech locked out gear selector.
small oil leaks.
radiator fan (one out of two)went out.
power steering now leaking.
new disc brakes front at 28,000 .
is not a honda for sure.but it is more fun to drive in the north east .not worth it in flat areas such as fla.
car likes winter .so so in summer weather though a/c is good.
Saab's turbochargers are oil and water cooled (IIRC), but SAAB has used both Mistubishi and Garret turbochargers in the past, I don't know who makes the one in my 95. I got a great deal on my new Aero, it had 6K miles on it and had never been titled, since it was driven by a SAAB regional parts manager. Automatic, touring package, and only in service for 4 months. I paid just under $30K and may qualify for owner loyalty rebate of $500, since I own a '73 SAAB Sonett. (48K miles, 2nd owner)
If you are really concerned about maintenance issues/costs, you might consider a used Acura TL Type S. Nice car, I would have gotten one, but I just wanted to be back in a SAAB when I finished out the lease on a vehicle for my wife. (Wife wanted Honda Oddessey half way through her lease when I blew the transmission on my 900 SE, can't blame SAAB, 160K miles and 60 extra horsepower, with much bigger and better tires.)
1.In Canada.. you can't pull fuse 35 as he said, it's the law. DRL's cause short bulb life whether it's a Saab or a Honda.
2.Saab Automobile doesn't Make Airplanes. They've been seperate for Years now. In fact.. I don't even think Saab Aerospace even makes a Plane anymore. Big supplier to company's that still assemble though.
3.You don't fix an airbag.. you replace it. Someone already answered that. I just thought the question was funny. LOL
4. Headlight replacement.. in the U.S. the dealers replace the bulbs under warranty. It must be different in Canada. Of course after the warranty expires... we're on our own. The last 7 years of Saabs here.. we replace our bulbs much less than our neighbors do for thier Volvo and they blow all the bulbs a LOT not just headlights.
Drew
I don't know where you live. But I live in CA. Do I need to switch the oil in different seasons like you do? Acura TL-S......don't want japanese cars.....
Enginetrouble:
Please keep us posted. Doesn't seem like Saab is taking good care of its customers.......
garrett's on linear and arc's.
happy saabing!
I think you can make that statement about every single automaker. Based on my personal experience and what I've read from hundreds of fellow SAAB owners is that SAAB does a great job with their customers. Not every car is perfect, not every dealer is wonderful, not every car owner is honest.
The 9-5 is at least as reliable as any comparable European car, and more reliable than many. But there's always gonna be a few bad ones. If you put reliability as your #1 priority, stick with the Asian brands. The odds are slightly more in their favor. Not that Asian cars are perfect either.
"Manual requires oil changes every 10K, which I had. Saab says oil should have been changed more often."
seems like to me Saab is not going to repair the vehicle even the driver follows the manual's indicated maintenance requirement. It's good to hear you have good experience with Saab. I know all cars are not perfect and I definitely wouldn't go for another japanese car.
My son convinced me to test drive a 2003 Maxima SE 6-spd, which I did. Smooth, quiet, powerful and luxurious. It had none of Saab's quirkiness or intelligent engineering touches, and the warranty is less attractive (3yr/36,000 vs. 4yr/50,000 plus roadside). But this car really performs, and I was surprised at how much I liked it. The dealer's first offer was $26K (MSRP is $30,600), which I think can come down more if I get serious. I need a backseat and trunk space, otherwise I'd look at the Z or G35 for Saab money.
Is this a fair comparison? The $6-7K price difference is significant in this class, but 20% off the Aero is also compelling. I want to own and drive for 4-5 years. Or am I comparing Swedish apples and Japanese oranges? All thoughts are welcome.
Saab 9-5 Aero wagon,Volvo XC70,Subaru Outback H.6. I'm looking for a wagon as you can see and these are the choices that make the most sense to me. Obviously the Saab is the sports car of the bunch and I'll talk about that in a moment.
My newphew just purchased a 03 Maxima and I test drove it. Like you,I was mesmerized by the speed and sheer acceleration that it produces. Having said that,the rest of the experience left me wanting more. I can't put my finger on it but it just seemed to get boring after about 5 minutes of driving it. If you are looking for a reliable,fast car I think the Maxima will be superior to the Saab although besides some battery issues with my car, I can't complain too much. It's been very reliable. It will be a tough choice,I know.Also,you will be able to do much better on price with the max.
Back to my situation,I like idea of leasing something else this time but I know there is an 80% chance that I will end up with another Saab.
Why?? I think you know the reasons so I won't go into it. The fact that I will be a return customer should also be favorable so I may as well give in and go and put my order in for my
9-5 Aero wagon.. A red one sounds good..
Good luck and let me know your thoughts as well.
Some time ago I posted some comments about the 9-5 vs. Acura TL. You might want to scroll back and look for them.
Part of me thinks its terribly sad that people compare the 9-5 to mainstream Asian cars when SAAB should be compared against Audi, Volvo, etc. Maybe not MBz or BMW but at least something close. If nothing else it helps Nissan's marketing dept justify price increases. I mean, if the average person can't tell the diff between one and the other, why not raise the price $5000 and stick it to them?
I feel sorry for all the suckers kicking down $27,000+ for a Honda Accord. But ignorance is bliss, especially when it comes to buying a new car.
the maxima is a really good car with an outstanding engine, roomy inside, nice fit and finish, and 6 speed manual tranny (although, nissan's stick is not as slick as say a honda or bmw). also, it's due for a redesign and therefore, all the kinks and bugs should have been ironed out and there should be ample incentives when buying the car. and the maxima is historically very reliable. however, the ride is a bit stiff and not as pleasant or as comfortable as the saab. the doors don't close with a reassuring solid "thud" as saabs do. some safety ratings are not as good as the saabs (iihs, nhtsa, etc.)
the saab 9-5 aero is much more fun to drive.
it may not have an engine as smooth running as the vq series v-6 in the maxima, but the overall driving experience is sublime. it has that elusive european feel on the road - solid, satisfying ride. the doors close with tank-like firmness. the ride is firm, taut, compliant but not uncomfortable, stiff or jittery. and you don't see one in every corner.
the price they gave you on the aero is a steal.
got mine 3 months ago for much more than that.
buy what you really want.
let us know which one you end up choosing.
either way, good luck.
Take the Volvo for a good test drive and make sure it suits your driving style. Better yet see if you can get your hands on a rental with some hard miles on it.
Both cars have been very reliable with only minor problems.
Also, I was given a ball park of about $36k for a 2003 ($42MSRP)
Thanks for your time...
The Search box looks for the keyword in discussion titles throughout the Town Hall, so it is not useful for searching within a topic. It's purpose is to find discussions already underway rather than specific posts.
that's after i read ALL the posts here and most of the posts at the saab network (TSN).
like you, i was at first concerned about some reliability issues because saab does not seem to have the reputation that honda or toyota has.
a lot of research and several test drives later,
i'm happily behind the wheels of a 9-5 aero.
very satisfied and have never looked back.
i'd say go do all the research you need to do and do all the test drives you want.
the aero will not disappoint.
also with surveys done by Consumer Reports and JD Powers, Saab seems to be the most reliable of all european brands.
good luck and let us know what you end up with.
While I'd like to be as helpful to the board here as I can, the "other factors" I mentioned were probably situation- and dealer-specific. It was month-end/year-end, so that motivated both of us. After an initial phone call (and a $30K offer over the phone!) I came in as the prototypical "I'm ready to buy today" customer, and that usually creates a condition that shakes a few dollars off the tree. I confirmed that the $500 owner loyalty would also be deducted. After a test drive and some hesitation on my part (I really *was* torn about the color) an additional $500 was taken off to seal the deal. The sales mgr explained that they had already written off a good portion of the vehicle in 2002, and he said he was also taking the 2003 depreciation now, rather than wait till January like other dealers. It was clear to me that the laser red color was the reason they had failed to sell this for many months. Further, a friend had explained that they move a lot of cars at this dealership (it's Saab-only), and that their pricing was generally aggressive.
To get a great deal right now, I would suggest that prospective buyers check out the existence of any remaining '02s on area dealer lots (the web is great for this), ignore the price listed on the site (it's almost always MSRP anyway), and call to verify a few facts on the car. Some '02s I found were listed under pre-owned or used, even if they have very few miles. Most are under "new "cars, but you'll want to confirm mileage and options. Try to get a sense of where they'll be price-wise if you decide to come in, knowing that even a very low verbal number can be a starting point for further (if limited) reductions. At the very least, with ongoing dealer rebates from Saab, and pressure to make room for more '03s and eventual '04s, a $4-5K discount should be the absolute minimum. Where it goes from there is based on those "other factors."
Good luck and good shopping!
the model year 99 had a few bugs (ecu, fuel tank thump). most of which were covered by recalls and replaced under warranty.
check out TSN and post some questions there too.
my experience with saab is limited since i'm on my first one that's only 3 months old.
best regards.
If you need info on a Saab of any vintage or model, this is the place. Keep in mind that this is a 'problem posting' site, so don't let your impression of Saabs be skewed by the posts. I've been driving our 9-5 for a year now and have found it to be an exceptional car. Wish I could afford another one for ME.
Regarding engine seizures, oil problems, Saab engines generally don't have problems with these type of issues, although if you did a search on TSN you'd probably find someone with said problem.
The current body style is going on only its fourth year so I'd expect it to be around for awhile. You'll see variants of the new 9-3 before an all-new 9-5 hits showrooms.
It appears that there are some good deals on the 02 9-5 in your part of the state, could you tell me where you made your purchase?
Thanks
Jerry
i'm glad you're sold on the aero.
(i know i enjoy mine!)
hope you find the price that you like
so you could start getting behind the wheel
of such a fine automobile.
good luck!
Regarding long-term reliability, probably NO other car will beat the Lexus. On the other hand, Saab has become one of the most reliable of all the European cars. Most of the consumer groups (J.D. Power, Kiplinger, Consumer Union) give the recent years' 9-5 exceptional marks for overall reliability. Model year 1999 had quite a few electrical recalls but the marque has improved significantly since then.
We're approaching the one-year mark on our 2002 9-5 - have had no significant problems and have truly enjoyed driving this fine vehicle.
I can scan thru a 20-post block in about 10 seconds. That's 120 post per minute or about 11 minutes of searching. No need to read every single post to find what you're interested in.
This webstring needs to be split up into useful information.
I agree that the search capability of WebX could be better. But it is what it is. This ain't your local library where you can just ask someone if they have books on a certain subject. People need to do their own research and just posting a question and sitting back waiting for answers is not research.