Honda Prelude 1997-2002

sphinx99 · May 2003

Weddings can cost more than some very nice cars.

I did the honking thing with a pearl white Type SH on the way to work today... it was a nice pleasant way to start the morning. Unfortunately the stock tires continued to let me down during the downpour on the way home from work tonight. I'll never understand why, when an automaker builds a $25k to $100k "performance" vehicle they routinely shave $50 on the tires. This isn't just a criticism of Honda, it seems to be true for the majority of products by the majority of automakers.

Given the narrow cost between the "best" and "average" when it comes to tires, at least versus the purchase price for these cars, I don't understand why the Prelude didn't come stock with the equivalent of S02s. It's not like those would have added more than $100 or so to the cost of the car.

nyccarguy · May 2003

I suspect it was not just the tires alone, but it is just one of those things that was part of a plan to keep costs down. The tires are one thing. Another is in the interior (it is nice and I love it). Do you notice that the center console ends before the open tray? Do you notice how the carpet ends under the seats? These little things add up to a lot believe it or not. Back in 1995, Mercedes cut costs in small ways to the tune of thousands of dollars.

krow41 · May 2003

Totaled my civic hatchback today and I need some advice. I'm looking to buy either a Prelude or Integra GS-R. I'm looking for a 1998-2001 and spend under 18,500. I'm pretty familiar with the Integra, but I was hoping that someone could help me out with a couple things about the prelude.

1.) What's the difference between the base model and SH?

2.) Any suggestions for buying a prelude over an integra or vice versa?

3.) I recently saw an ad for a '98 Prelude that had leather interior. A friend of mine told me that preludes were not made with leather. While he's pretty knowledgable about cars, it would seem that he is mistaken. Can anyone confirm or deny this?

4.) Saw an ad for a certified '98 Prelude with 28k miles for $17,800. Is this a fair price? I don't really have much to compare because I haven't seen any '98-'99 preludes with such low miles.

Any other suggestions/opinions would be greatly appreciated.

sphinx99 · May 2003

1) Type SH adds the ATTS unit, primarily. It also includes some side doodads: body-colored side skirts, different rims (thinner spokes), standard spoiler, door puddle lamps. Cornering ability goes up, but weight and cost go up too.
2) I've leave this to others. My limited experience with Integras had me feeling like they weren't quite in the same class as Prelude--not as precise, not nearly as quick outside of Type R form.
3) He is. I believe leather was optional in '97 and '98 - it disappeared after that, though. Non US models can get leather throughout '01 - in France I saw a brand spanking new '01 with leather. It also came in a lovely green shade.
4) Personally it seems kind of high. Very high. My SH is a '01 with even fewer miles and I'd be lucky to get that price. I bought it for 23k-something new because they couldn't sell it!

sphinx99 · May 2003

Check out the WRX STI review at Edmunds... too bad they never post numbers nor good pictures for these "First Drive" reviews.... oh well.

himiler · May 2003

I sold my '98 GS-R to move to the Prelude. The Integra offers more of a go-kart ride, with responses to match. It's louder than the Prelude, and a bit rough around the edges in comparison. It's also lighter and easier to find mods for than the Prelude. Better gas mileage, too (~32 vs.~28).

In a stock vs. stock comparison, the Prelude offers higher handling limits and has stronger brakes, but lacks the GS-R's "right now!" reflexes by a slight margin. There's a bit more filtering between the road and the major controls in the Prelude than in the GS-R. With just a $100 strut tower brace up front, the Prelude gains quite a bit of steering sharpness, and becomes more stable in lumpy corners. The Prelude is less prone to bump-steer and steering wheel kickback, and has a more settled ride on all road surfaces.

Power-wise, the Prelude has a clear advantage despite its weight, but the short gearing in the GS-R keeps it a dead heat up to 100mph. Beyond that point -- and when powering out of corners -- the Prelude walks away.

To my knowledge, Honda never built a USDM Prelude with leather, but they did offer it in Canada, and there were lots of aftermarket leather kits available.

$17,800 seems a mite bit high, but very often the pricing is influenced by geography: in the South and Southwest, Preludes are still considered desirable. If the car is in good shape (spend $100 and have a Honda mechanic check the major systems and do a compression check), it might not be a bad deal considering the miles.

Good luck in your decision.

nyccarguy · May 2003

There's not much left to say that himiler and sphinx99 haven't said already.

Leather was definitely NEVER a factory option for the 5th generation Preludes, so the leather kit is definitely aftermarket.

We're kinda biased towards the Prelude on this board, but definitely look for one with a stick (which I assume you're doing because you're asking about a GS-R also).

Whichever car you decide to buy, make sure you try and find one that hasn't been modified and don't let the current owner tell you "well I've put $15 grand worth of mods into the car and it is faster than a...)

I'm not sure which region you're in, but I know that Intergras are much more prevelant than Preludes (obviously b/c they sold a lot more Integras). I like to drive around and not see my car on every corner.

Insurance may be lower for you on the Prelude (depending on your age/region/driving record) because the Integra has a very high theft rate.

sphinx99 · May 2003

Guys, c'mon! Leather *was* available as an option in '97 and 98. Seriously. As far as I know it was basically the same sort of leather you got with the 4th gen "Special Edition" Preludes. I've seen a few older 5th gens with factory leather... just not too many.

himiler · May 2003

IIRC, Honda made a point of stating that leather was not offered as a factory option in the 5G in an effort to keep prices down. (Ooops -- didn't work!)

You may have seen cars that had leather from the dealership, as there are no part #s for leather seats from Honda for our cars.

nyccarguy · May 2003

we should try and look up early 1997 articles or 1st drives of the 5th gen Prelude on the web.

nyccarguy · May 2003

about the leather issue

sphinx99 · May 2003

I finally took the car in to what is widely considered to be one of the top body shops in the Detroit metro area. They are the place that the local Porsche place sends their cars to, and is essentially a high-line German body shop. (The woman who sold me my Hondas over the last few years used to work at Porsche and hooked me up.) It was interesting to pull into the place and park next to a CLK55 with a crumpled up driver's side rear quarter panel. My suddenly shy Prelude was surrounded by 745is, Boxsters and the like!

Fortunately she called ahead of time so they were expecting me, and I felt instantly at home. It's definitely a place for enthusiasts. Total damage: $1700 to repair. This includes a new hood, a new headlamp, various miscellaneous bumper parts and about $500 worth of labor and $150 in paint. The place sure looks professional. I think I'll do it... it needs to be fixed anyway, right?

I'm irked by the headlamp which literally has but a small plastic piece broken - follow the lamp assembly down a bit and you'll see that it's anchored by a small black plastic piece. That piece is broken but I need a new $300+ headlamp! Eek! Maybe I can sell the thing on ebay... *shrug*

Looks like the 'lude will be in good hands, however, and will be worked on by a guy who is just finishing up bringing a F355 back to life after two months of surgery. Wait is two weeks before I bring the 'lude in for three days of surgery and post-op care. Until then, if you see a guy in a silver SH driving around with a bent up front hood, you know who he is.

nyccarguy · May 2003

It is hard to find a good body shop. You do get what you pay for when it comes to it though. $1700 isn't too bad from a High-Line German car shop at all. You'll end up being much happier with the work than if you take it somewhere that'll do the job for $1200, so it is money well spent. Good luck!

kenjabi · May 2003

Hi guys,

I've been reading this msg board for a while, since I got my Prelude in Oct. '01 (it's a '99). So I know a lot of people ask about tires, but I can't seem to find a post with quite the question I have.

Now I know most of you use both summer and winter tires and switch accordingly during the year. This unfortunately is not a viable option for me because of cost and convenience issues, and I need to have an all-season tire. So I've been on tirerack.com and checked out what's out there, and as I'm sure most of you know, there ain't much in Prelude's stock size. And what is out there are some of Tirerack's lowest rated high-performance all-seasons.

So I started looking at slightly different sizes. I looked at 215/50/16's and 205/55/16's. I realize both of these are slightly larger than stock, but I've also read that the stock's are slightly undersized. I also am aware of what the different numbers mean and that 215's will be 1 cm wider than 205's, and /55's will have wider sidewalls. There's only one tire that gets decent ratings in 215/50, and it's just that--decent. But in the 205/55's, I can get many of the highest rated all-seasons.

Ok, so my question is, if you were going to go with a tire size slightly larger than stock, would you go with 215/50's or 205/55's?

BTW, while performance is important to me, I feel that safety is MOST important to me, since I frankly feel unsafe driving in the rain in the stock RE92's right now. So wet traction (and snow, if possible) is most important to me, with performance a close second.

sphinx99 · May 2003

For what it's worth, I'd be interested to know the answer too. The stock tires are making me very nervous. They've already gotten me into one accident.

Assuming I picked up winter tires come the winter, would a quality performance tire (those S02s, etc.) provide better wet-weather traction than the stock tires? I'm all but ready to get rid of my stock tires...

blacktalon · May 2003

The SO-3s provide phenomenal wet traction. They're much, much better on wet roads than the RE92s are on completely dry ones...

nyccarguy · May 2003

Well, FWIW High Performance Summer tires (in general) do drive very well in the rain (much better than our stock RE92s. Back me up on this one Himiler as you've probably got more tire experience under your belt than any of us.

As far as High Performance All Season Tires go (an oxymoron to some people), I ran a quick check on tirerack for my Prelude Type SH (which as we all know use the same size tires as the base Prelude) and it shows some Pirelli P7000 Supersport tires in our stock size. It scored "Excellent" in 7 of 9 categories (by users I guess) and "good" for Snow traction and noise comfort. Tirerack lists it as a best seller. $92 a piece doesn't seem too shabby.

sphinx99 · May 2003

"The SO-3s provide phenomenal wet traction. They're much, much better on wet roads than the RE92s are on completely dry ones..."

I'm sold.

Question - some time ago, someone I know rolled his Prelude and it wound up in the body shop for a few months. Among the many items replaced were three Type SH rims which picked up scuffs. (Insurance paid so everything with damage was replaced, even the minor items.) He gave them to me and to this day I have three Type SH rims with light scuffs on the lips sitting in my closet.

Question(s) -

1. I think the rims are just fine but they certainly might have sustained damage during the rollover. How can I find out? Is there a way to measure to within the tolerances required for a functional rim? Is there a shop that can tell me or test them without charging me an arm and a leg?

2. Where is the best place to pick up a 4th Type SH rim?

nyccarguy · May 2003

Just look the rims over. Scratches and even pits are OK. If you see a crack though, that spells trouble. If you don't trust yourself, take the rims to a local tire/wheel shop. they should be able to tell you with their "experienced" eyes whether or not the rims are good or not. It shouldn't cost you more than a $5 tip and a thank-you.

The Honda MSRP for our lovely Type SH rims is $445 plus tax. When I ran over a steel plat and cracked a rim back in January, I ordered one from a dealership in Manchester, Connecticut. The dealership is Manchester Honda. I purchased a Type SH rim for $344 including shipping via FedEx. Their website is manchesterhonda.com I don't know if there is anyplace cheaper to get the rim.

sphinx99 · May 2003

Thanks for the tip!

The rims don't have any cracks, I'm fairly certain of that. I am more concerned about deformation. Is this a problem with alloy rims or do they only scratch & crack, not deform? I'll check with the body shop next week to see what they say. Maybe they can order a fourth rim at a low price, otherwise I'll check out Manchester Honda - thanks for the tip!

Today afternoon after going over my finances versus the camera, computer, home, HDTV, aquarium, sound system, car audio upgrade and rollerblades that I want to buy, I realized that I am at a point in my life where I really ought to grow up--but the mere fact that I have a huge smile on my face on the way to work every day because I'm driving my Prelude is proof that I'm still a teenager. This is incredibly difficult to reconcile, but hey, no regrets!

I'm increasingly positive that the Prelude is going to be a part of my household for many years to come, and now that I'm accepting that I'm thinking more seriously about what it would take to improve the audio. They say that the best way to improve a car's audio is to lower the level of road noise. I wonder, are S02s/S03s quieter than RE92s or is it not a big difference? Assuming that it isn't possible to reduce the cabin noise appreciably, I wonder how far $1000 would get me. Right now I'm fairly happy with the sound. When I turn it up, I do start to hear sound break up (speakers overdriven?) probably caused by the AFS attenuating certain frequencies (i.e. vocals) when bass hits. I love the precision but the amplitude is a bit lacking. (In contrast I've listened to much more powerful sound systems in cars, which don't feel quite so "tight.")

Another issue is rattling in the rear deck when bass hits. I'd imagine this wouldn't be too hard to fix. It's pretty much the only rattle I hear.

I'm thinking of a $1,000 budget but I don't know how reasonable or unreasonable that is and I'm certainly unsure of how to approach finding a good shop to help w/installation, and how to choose the right components. I'm starting to think that the $5 (or whatever) investment to register at preludeonline.com might be worth it.

nyccarguy · May 2003

I think you can do pretty well for $1000 in audio upgrades (I think I'm reading your post correctly that you want to spend $1000 on audio upgrades). You seem like much more of an audiofile than I am. I don't think I'd ever upgrade a car's stock system. That's just me though.

I like to listen to music with Bass too. A really cheap fix for the lack of Bass would be something along the lines of a bass tube. But that would take up some serious room. Maybe you could have a box built for inside your spare tire along with some speaker and maybe a head unit upgrade gets you to $1000 really quickly. I'm just throwing suggestions out in the open though.

sphinx99 · May 2003

What I really need to do is stop by a Lexus dealership and ask if I can listen to the Mark Levinson system for a while. I need a baseline--an idea of what I'm missing so that I have something to shoot for.

blacktalon · May 2003

I haven't noticed a significant difference between the SO-3s and the RE92s in terms of road noise.

I strongly recommend Boston Acoustics speakers, if you like clean and precise sound at all volume levels. I had four Boston speakers in my Talon, and that's the first thing I'm going to add when I finally get around to upgrading my Prelude's sound system.

himiler · May 2003

You can do a 205/55-16 on the Prelude without worry. It'll only raise the ride height by 0.5". and the tires will fill the wheel wells in a bit more. You'll get increased ride comfort, and might even see a slight increase in fuel economy (larger diameter=taller final drive+slightly reduced revs at highway speeds. Compared to the RE92, you will not notice any reduction in steering response. They're also decent performers in light snow, good in slush, and like suction cups in the wet. Aside from the Pilot A/S, these are the best A/S tire available.

IMO, you cannot do any better in an ultra-high performance A/S tire (for less than $150) than the Dunlop SP5000. I've run 3 sets of them on my GS-R, and recently bought a set for my 2.5RS. GREAT TIRE -- quiet, very grippy, proggressive at the limit, long-wearing, and rides nice.

For a few bucks more than the SuperSport 7000 (avoid!), you get a much more capable and quieter tire.

My S-03's are noiser than the RE-92's on some pavement types, and quieter on others. I'm more than willing to put up with the minor overall increase in road noise to get the very high levels of dry/wet grip, but I think I'll go with the Dunlop SP9000 next time (cheaper, longer-wearing and more comfy).

NOISE -- get some Dynamat, do the trunk and inside the doors. You'll get a quieter ride, and better performance from even the stock sound system. I had a powered 10" sub in my trunk for a while, but removed it after I upgraded the HU and all 4 woofers -- I no longer needed the sub.

kenjabi · May 2003

Wow himiler, you've answered pretty much all the questions from the last couple days with that one post! Thanks for the info.

himiler · May 2003

No problemo, glad to help!

panga · May 2003

What is dynamat (from himiler's post above)?

himiler · May 2003

It's an adhesive-backed sound insulation material that comes in sheets. I installed some in the GS-R I owned, and it cut the noise down quite a bit.

http://www.dynamat.com

There are other names for slightly different products, but they all do the same basic thing.

nyccarguy · May 2003

Ok So it seems like when I park my car overnight (or longer) with less than a 1/4 tank of gas, it takes a little while more than usual to turn over in the morning. Do you guys have this problem? Do you think it might be a weak battery or bad fuel pump?

kenjabi · May 2003

I get the exact same thing. I remember reading somewhere (I wish I remember where) that it's perfectly normal with the Prelude. I bet your battery and fuel pump are fine.

sphinx99 · May 2003

Same thing. The car starts in an instant with a full tank of 94 octane, and takes quite a few cranks with a near-empty tank of 92 octane. I read at some point that it was due to higher air pressure within a full gas tank somehow leading to this effect but I didn't take it too seriously.

Here's another one: I've noticed that I hear fewer rattles in cold weather than in hot weather.

nyccarguy · May 2003

Thanks for the reassurance guys! You're both right, after I fill up and leqave it overnight it turns right over.

You guys all know I love the styling of my Prelude. I parked next to a Silver 350Z (we were both backed in) today and the Prelude looks out-dated. I still love the Prelude though. Just an observation.

Don't worry! The Prelude's going to be with me for quite some time. I'm not jumping ship!

sphinx99 · May 2003

The Z is a bit closer to the styling vanguard--next to it, most any car will appear outdated! That said, I do feel that the Z's styling is a bit portly... it's bulgy like the Accord Coupe. I still like the Prelude's compact, sort of lean profile.

himiler · May 2003

The Prelude is quite a bit lower than the 350Z. I also parked next to one the other night, and was surprised to find myself loking up at the Z!

sphinx99 · May 2003

Well, I DIDN'T park next to a Z last night so n'yah n'yah to you!

nyccarguy · May 2003

Today I parked next to a Black H2 with 24" Wheels (the stupid kind that spin when the car stops) ans tires. What a beast! That thing dwarfs my Prelude.

I had a guy in a white '92 Si w/ Rear ALtezzas pull up next to me and give the thumbs up. I returned the favor. I told him he had a cool car. He told me he's do anything for one like mine:)

himiler · May 2003

Call me a traitor, but I dig the H2. It makes no excuses for what it is (like the Prelude and FX45), and I like that kind of attitude in a vehicle.

But, God no -- I'd never want to own one.

nyccarguy · May 2003

Don't get me wrong, the H2 is definitely bold (to say the least) in the looks department. Have you ever sat in one? The rear seats are cramped for a vehicle that size and I've felt brick walls that are softer than the dash plastics. Gotta cough one up for GM's marketing weenies though. The bold styling and Hummer nameplate are selling these things like Hotcakes.

If I were going to drop $50 grand on a car, It'd be an M3, or a 530i, but definitely not an H2.

You're not a traitor:)

himiler · May 2003

Yeah, I did sit in one -- yuck! But what a monster-mobile.

Hmmmmm...$50 large on a car? I'd probably buy a WRX wagon (or Forester turbo) and a Miata, and have a constant s-eating grin!

sphinx99 · May 2003

One of my staff members is in love with the H2; she calls it "cute."

I saw two Zs on the way home from work today, one burnt orange, one silver. Both looked nice but the orange certainly was more distinctive. The silver color somehow made the Z look--dare I say it?--obese. The orange looked much slimmer and more athletic... funny. Both were driven by 20-something males with funky hair. Is it just me or is every Z driven by a 20-something male? If so, then who's buying all the used Firebirds?

For $50k I'd probably get a BMW 540i 6-speed--or better yet, a 545i 6-speed with iDrive, iSteer, iBrake, iThink and uRelax as dealer-installed options.

The Prelude continues to impress. I took a 25mph curve at 50mph for no particular reason and the tires didn't even squeal. The feeling of ATTS kicking in is like nothing else in this world... it's hard to get to that point on a public road but once you do, you get this feeling that you have more lateral grip than racecar. That's probably not true but I saw several articles posting skidpad results of 0.89g for the Prelude SH. If you think about it, that's simply phenomenal for a front-wheel-drive car (no convenient sliding on demand) wearing RE92s (garbage tires) that are only 205mm thick (narrow for a performance car). Whenever I manage to get ATTS kicking in, I get to wondering about an AWD Prelude with ATTS on both the front and rear axles, with 235-wide S02s at all four corners. It really would corner like a racecar.

sphinx99 · May 2003

I test drove a Honda Element the other day while chatting with the saleslady/friend at the Honda dealership. She told me to try it, that I'd love it. She's usually right but not this time. The stereo was pretty nice... loud... but no real sense of fidelity. The suspension was soft and--well, they say that it rides like a car but it felt like a van to me. You won't be taking any sharp corners in that thing. Visibility ain't great either--small rear view mirror + big blind spots. On the other hand, the interior truly is amazing. Everything folds down, everything can be hosed down with water. There's place for just about anything. There's enough room for me (over six feet tall) to get out of the driver's seat, walk all the way to the back, and exit the car, without tripping on anything.

I've been in or driven Lexus LSs, Mercedes CLs, and many of their brethern over the years. Of all these amazing cars out on the market that I have had the fortune to even touch, the Honda Element's interior is by far the most amazing. Next time you're at a dealership getting your car serviced, check one out.

himiler · May 2003

If a Prelude had AWD, it wouldn't need ATTS. ;^)

Getting the cornering above .90g isn't any tougher than installing some coil-overs.

I'd go with RWD and 215's to save weight.

nyccarguy · May 2003

that I parked next to the other day was in the garage today as well. Except there were a few things missing. It appears some delinquent member(s) of society (read low lifes) stole the spinning part of the spinning rims, 3 TVs from the ceiling, and ripped out a bunch of the speakers from inside the truck. It appears breaking into the car was as simple as breaking somer plastic around the cylinder, prying the lock off, and opening the door. There's a white CTS with 20s (sorry dubs) that spin and the spinning parts were stolen as well.

I wanted to get the Prelude washed today after work. The line at the car wash was too long though. I guess I'll do it Monday.

himiler · May 2003

Someone's stealing the spinners off of dubs?

Gosh, I guess there is justice, after all!

nyccarguy · May 2003

That was in the garage. Well, himiler is right, the Prelude looks lower. As much as I love the inside of the Z, I was mot impressed with the interior. Orlando (the garage attendant) let me sit in the Z today. I definitely think the materials used in my Prelude are higher quality. I don't think the RX8 is going to do much damage to Z sales, but when the new Supra comes out it will. Toyota will do a nicer interior on the new Supra than the one on the new Z. I've got a little over 6700 miles, I'm going to have to get the oil changed and tires rotated again in a few weeks.

sphinx99 · May 2003

The Supra is likely to be more expensive, however. Over on that other board there is plenty of talk about the new, upcoming $30k Supra, but I just don't see it. In recent years, the typical price of a Toyota has climbed upward. The Camry is not a cheap car, nor is the Sienna. The MR2 is expensive for a stripper, and even the Corolla doesn't seem to have anything "economy" left in it. Toyota seems to be engineering the economy out of the Toyota brand and into Scion instead. Given that, the specifications of any future Supra, and the need for it to be bolted together and more refined than anything else in its class (the Toyota hallmark) I just don't see a Supra starting at anything less than $35k incl. tax.

I'm not too impressed with the Z's interior either. The exterior is growing on me. Then there's the 287hp.

I wish Prelude had slightly more aggressive seats. They are very comfortable but don't cradle me as well as many other performance cars when it comes to keeping me in place on curves. If I ever take a curve hard for the heck of it, I usually use the parking brake to brace myself.

sphinx99 · May 2003

Prelude's in the shop for the next three days, during which I'll be driving a Volvo S40! Through a combination of preferred memberships, discounts, a coupon and having a friend who works at Enterprise, plus the lack of availability of the full-size that technically qualifies for a "Free Upgrade" I was able to get this pretty cheap - $30/day. Good enough for me!

Report on the obviously critical Prelude-vs-Volvo S40 comparison will be forthcoming.

(First impression: the Volvo's turbo 4 has some serious kick.)

cowboy019 · May 2003

agreed on the seats. Wish they had the seat design from the RSX - now THOSE are great for holding you in when throwing the car around. Wonder if you can get them installed aftermarket.

himiler · May 2003

There are better aftermarket seats than the RSX's for less money. But, you could always check on e-bay for some RSX seats that an owner pulled and replaced with something more "tuner." Also check the parts classifieds at RSX sites.

I'm a pretty narrow guy (~150lbs.), and I find the Prelude seats hold me in just fine, and they're certainly not as confining as the seats in my GS-R were.

sphinx99 · May 2003

It has some kick but not as much as I thought. On the other hand, the moonroof is huge, the driver's seat is pretty much perfect, and the thing comes with headlamp washers. HEADLAMP WASHERS! Fortunately my Prelude should be alive and well once again come tomorrow afternoon, new hood and all.

I'm definitely impressed by the feeling of solidity of the Volvo and would love to drive a compact sporty coupe if they ever made one. That driver's seat in something of the Prelude's dimensions would make me forget all about the Lexus SC400.

Honda Prelude 1997-2002

Comments

Helpful Tools

Most popular vehicles