Toyota Matrix

nippononly · April 2004

if that is styling confusion or what, because people used to ask me if my Matrix was a hybrid too, and at the time the Prius was still the classic sedan model. I think what people mean is "crossover", not hybrid, and they are just confusing terms. At least, that was as much as I thought it through before I quit thinking about it! :-P

deg856 · April 2004

In my case it was pretty clear that people were using the term hybrid correctly because each time the discussion led directly to the type of engine used.

Even the first generation Prius looked different enough from a regular car for many casual observers to notice. I can easily see how casual observers get the Matrix mixed up with both first and second generation Prius - all three cars look different from the norm. You wolnd't get that with a Vibe, which has a much more "normal" exterior.

oac · April 2004

Nippon: Sad to see you go out of the Trix, hope you like the RSX. They do look nice but small-ish to me. May be my failing old eyes

deg: Did you say the Vibe has a "normal" exterior ? What is that ? The Vibe is dangerously close to looking like the much-despised Aztec. Sharing an exterior skin with a car-truck-whatever like an Aztec cannot be considered a "normal" exterior. No ? BUT, the Vibe is a nice little car, although I much prefer the exterior of my Matrix over any Pontiac anyday.

deg856 · April 2004

Comparing the Vibe to the Aztec vastly dilutes the seriousness of Aztec's ugliness. The Vibe's front end is just too much for me, but it's instantly recognizable as a Pontiac. The rest of the exteror actually looks pretty good to me, especially when the lower panels are painted to match the rest of the body. Its comparably flat side contours and window shapes make it look similar to a number of tall wagon/cute-utes from other makes, and that's what I meant by "more normal". The Matrix, on the other hand, has a unusual side coutour. Combine that with the wrap-around rear glass treatment, the Matrix looks oddly futuristic (i.e., not normal), hence the confusion with the equally unusual and futuristic looking hybrids (Prius) from Toyota.

nippononly · April 2004

thanks! I LOVE the RSX, but smallish doesn't begin to describe it - no back seat at all really, and two in the front is reasonably snug.

What I would like to see is the Matrix XR have the handling package (tires, rims, suspension) of the XRS as an optional package and to have the 160 hp 2.4 from the RAV4 standard, for the same price. That would be a blast, and I would have kept my Matrix if that had been the case. In that scenario, of course, the XRS would be free to take it up a couple more notches of sport. (perhaps it could have the 2.4 with the TRD S/C, for 200+ hp)

Since the corolla itself is already on the low end of the spectrum for power in its segment, and the Matrix with the same engine is heavier and less aerodynamic, I would think it is inevitable that a bigger engine would debut in the Matrix before the full five-year model cycle runs its course. However, the logical time for this update would be the mid-cycle refresh this year, but I have not heard anything to that effect.

oac · April 2004

Personally, I will like to see the base have the Corolla engine, the XR with options for the Yamaha engine, and the XRS with something peppier like you suggest. Get rid of the AWD system that drags down hp, or improve the exhaust by-pass better to permit greater hp and torque output in the AWD trim.

The Matrix's Corolla engine w/vvt-i is still a pretty good engine tho'. It should last 200K+ miles before you'd need a rebuild. You know the Corolla could very well be its own Toyota company and beat the crap out of many auto manufacturers out there. Says a lot about the product and the engine which makes it all great.

nippononly · April 2004

with the 2ZZ engine (XRS, Celica GTS, soon Corolla XRS) has always been that it is SOOOOO peaky - if only the power peak could be stretched out to more than a 2000 rpm spread, it could be kept on power all the time. As it exists, though, it is hard to use, and not well suited to anything but a true sport coupe, which the Matrix is not. That is why I was thinking of the low-end torque advantages of the 2.4 for the Matrix. Perhaps they could still use the corolla's 1.8 for the base Matrix, to provide more differentiation among the three trims, but I fear that would make it too expensive for Toyota to build without raising the price.

deg856 · April 2004

XR auto FWD. 1434 mi total. 339.0 mi on last tank. 10.434 gal fill up. -> 32.49 mpg

steine13 · April 2004

I thought I'd post this for people's information and/or amusement.

Yakima has apparently caught up with the whole Matrix/Vibe thing and actually figured out how to use one of their existing adapter kits... it's the "Q83-A" set of clips and pads.

I bought the set in the store and when I got home, there were no instructions for my car. Called Yakima and within 40 seconds had a live person who told me that there was no fit for the '04 Vibe, but the numbers for the '03 were: M1 = 40 3/8" and M2 = 8". This refers to Q tower spread and distance to windshield, respectively.

This is what the whole thing looks like on my car:
http://www.msu.edu/~steine13/101_0164.JPG
It's a pretty goofy setup with the pads sticking on the car at a 45-degree angle...

I still want my rain gutters back, but this is actually more solid than the corresponding setup on our Sienna... and we haul two boats with that one.

Hope this helps someone out there.
-Mathias

footie · April 2004

Can't find msu.edu, sorry.

steine13 · April 2004

sorry 'bout that... works fine from here... try
http://www.msu.edu/~steine13/charvan.htm

I had a bunch of people from different places look at that one last fall and it worked.

The only thing I can' think of is protections messed up or whatever.... let me know. tia -m

footie · April 2004

Huh?

nippononly · April 2004

that is pretty impressive - one deer can do all that damage to a minivan? I need to slow down at night when I'm not in town!

steine13 · April 2004

forget the flippin' deer pics, it was just a test what the problem was with the link to the roof rack picture.... i have no idea, cuz they're on the same site... can anyone see the rack???

http://www.msu.edu/~steine13/101_0164.JPG
http://www.msu.edu/~steine13/101_0165.JPG

-m

lngtonge18 · April 2004

I can see the rack pics just fine.

tnlandsailor · April 2004

I've been perusing the boards for a while looking for any reason not to buy a Matrix. I've wanted one for quite a while (6 mos or so) and kept reading about leaks, rotten egg smell, rattles and squeaks, etc, and almost talked myself out of it. Thanks to a reality check from some folks here on the board, I finally found the one I wanted and snatched it up over the weekend (03 black XRS). What a great car! It is a pleasure to drive, even on long trips. It was quite a ways from where I bought it to where I live (300+ miles) and I found it very quiet, even at 85 mph/3800 RPM, and more than enough power to pass and accelerate up hills.

On the nitpicking side, the shifter is a little clunky. I think it's a little too snappy and not really smooth. Maybe it will smooth out over time. Also, the beeping sound in reverse is about to drive me batty. Does anyone know how to disconnect this?

Lastly, the CEL came on and the rev limiter now kicks in at about 7000 RPM. Anyone ever have this problem? Is it a warranty thing?

Thanks to the board for all the info.

capitano · April 2004

I have an 04 XRS and while the shifter is not as buttery smooths as, say, the one in the RSX type S, it is smooth enough for me. I can't really say if it has gotten smoother. Other users on other sites swear by using Redline or other synthetic gear in the tranny. Might want to check that out if it is going to be an issue for you.

CEL light. Haven't had that come up yet. Probably an oxygen sensor. Go to autozone and have them read the code. They do it for free in the hopes of selling you a part.

stillageek · April 2004

The limiter will be around 6K RPMS when the engine is cold. Passing 6200 RPMS and hitting "lift" will only occur after the engine has reached an optimum temp. As far as the beeping, there is a way to disconnect it, I found the "how to" on the matrixowners.com site. I am leaving mine as I don't want to one day not be thinking and take off in reverse instead of 1st.

thel · April 2004

It's taken about 6 months, but my Matrix XRS has finally grown on me. As some of you may recall, I traded in my beloved Miata on this car. I had many "rebound syndrome" issues but now I don't think I can part with my Matrix anytime soon.

My favorite features would be:

1. Power, lots of power, easy to pass people.

2. sound system. I'm no audiophile, but the 6-cd system sounds great for the burned Iron Miaden cd's the changer is loaded up with.

3. sun roof. I've got some issues with the roof (loud, slow, "pauses" when closing) but I couldn't live with another car without one.

4. confort. The steering wheel does need a telescoping feature REAL bad but the seats are very comfy and the road/wind noise is minimal for a car of this type.

5. power. Love the power. Much more passing power than any stock Miata (except perhaps the new Mazdaspeed) makes passing people very low-stress.

thel · April 2004

6. Ease of maintainence. Changing the oil is a breeze and the filter is easily accessible.

7. Style. I thought they were kind of ugly at first, but my opinion has since upgraded to "distinctive" if not sporty. My students love the body kit on the XRS...

thel · April 2004

8. The shifter. It's really smoothed itself out over the 8,600 miles I've put on it. Very nice....but I still HATE the reverse beeper!

capitano · April 2004

LOL.

Man, that's quite a turnaround in a rather short time.

"6. Ease of maintainence. Changing the oil is a breeze and the filter is easily accessible."

Yeah, I really like how accessible the filter is too.

"7. Style. I thought they were kind of ugly at first, but my opinion has since upgraded to "distinctive" if not sporty. My students love the body kit on the XRS..."

I didn't ever really care for the body kit in particular, but since I've spotted a few base Matrices driving around, I've noticed that they look naked without it. It does grow on you.

Just this morning I was coming back to my car which I had parked at the end of a row in a parking garage. I could see the whole car, instead of just the front or back as I approached and I was struck by how good it looked with the 17" wheels.

steine13 · April 2004

I've got the base Vibe, and I'm glad for the nearly 8" of ground clearance. Makes a big difference here in MI with all the snow. AWD would be nice but gets around just fine without.
Now a low-to-the-ground Prizm was GROUNDED when we got 10" of snow...
While we're saying nice things about the car(s).
The styling, well... I don't much care for eihter one, but that's me.
-Mathias

nippononly · April 2004

about the body kit (and many people have), but this car has an ENORMOUS barrel-shaped muffler just behind that rear bumper, and without the body kit it is visible, and it looks grotesque hanging there. Give me the body kit every time. I just wish they had shaved four or five inches of overhang off the front skirt so that it didn't scrape on every driveway and gutter that comes along. It is unfortunate that if you look closely at most Matrices with the kit, the leading edge of that front skirt is all scuffed to heck.

oac · April 2004

Yeah Nippon. Absolutely on the money. Love the Matrix look, except the front skirt. Could sure use a lot of trimming back. Mine is all scuffed to heck, apologies Nippon. But I still prefer it with the skirt than without.

Thel: That is a remarkable turnaround. I agree with all of your points. Even tho' I have the XR auto, it does have a remarkable amount of power from that little 130hp 4-banger engine. It zips zips zips all around town.... Love it.

Maybe your turnaround will rub off on Nippon and he'll develop a nostalgia for his XRS and give up the RSX

I know, I know... not happening, right ?

thel · April 2004

I was about to go trade it in on a 2000 Miata and on the drive to the dealership I just realized, "hey, I actually like this car!" It was like a weight was lifted from me. I was all of the sudden in a much better mood and life was good again! There are still a couple of things that are kind of annoying, but I can live with them.

nippononly · April 2004

it is definitely a bummer if minor annoyances on your new car are sufficient to dampen your enjoyment of it, ESPECIALLY if you are making payments.

oac: on mine that I traded in, the front skirt was so scuffed on the right side that a big paint chip had come off that extended right up into view a couple of inches...almost up to the level of the foglight on that side.

deg856 · April 2004

With the long overhang low to the ground I knew it was just a matter of time before it got scraped, but it was still upsetting when it happened with the car only a few hudnred miles old. It sounded awful when it happened and both sides got scraped pretty good. Now I approach driveways very slowly at an angle.

thel · April 2004

when I scraped mine but my air dam is nice and black underneath. I can only see it when I wash the car and I scrub the bugs off so I don't really worry about it much.

What really sucks is the $130 I had pay to replace ONE tire when the Bridgestone RE92 went flat. I was dreading that day ever since I saw that my car had 17's....not fun.

nippononly · April 2004

with the 17s, you have to budget truck-like money for replacement tires when the time comes...but those tires are key to the stellar handling of the XRS, so it is worth it! :-)

capitano · April 2004

punctured one and had it repaired. No problems in the 7,000 miles since.

thel · April 2004

But it was a large leak and I think that the sidewalls were scuffed up pretty bad.

deg856 · April 2004

I often see the Matrix as a racy looking compact minivan. If it had sliding rear doors (can't beat it for ease of access inside a two-car garage), then there would truly be nothing else like it in the US market. Take out the front center armrest/storage bin to creat a walk-thru? It'd be nice but then I'd miss the storage space.

nippononly · April 2004

I was pulled up behind a Matrix yesterday, and there was a Previa in the next lane to it, and do you know the roof height is almost the same? And the length too.

The first time my 60-year-old father saw my Matrix, he turned to me with a blank stare and said "why do you need a minivan?"

deg856 · April 2004

Most vehicles have a fairly flat and some what symmetrical roofline profile (view from the side). The Matrixs roofline, on the other hand, reaches maximum height above the drivers head and drops off sharply toward the back. The sharp front-to-back tapering profile is made even more pronounced visually with the wrap around glass treatment in the D-pillar. I think this is what makes it look odd to most people, but you know which other car has this kind of roofline profile? Take a look at a 350Z. A silver 350Z parked next to my silver Matrix this morning. It made me go, hmmm, when I saw the profiles of the two cars next to each other. Not saying theyre the same, but theyre in the same neighborhood compared to anything else.

deg856 · April 2004

When viewed from the front or the rear, my Matrix does not look much smaller than my wifes 2001 Sienna in width or height. In reality the Sienna feels MUCH roomier inside they are not even close. With adult passengers only Id take the Matrix (more economical and more fun to drive), but when small kids are involved Id much rather take the Sienna. This may seem counter-intuitive but adults seat themselves, where as little kids need to be moved so you need a lot more room to maneuver. The Sienna (or any minivan) isnt much longer overall, but it has a much shorter hood so real passenger space is much longer than any car/wagon/SUV of comparable size. Certain people have an image problem with minivans but their brilliance in packaging efficiency simply cant be beat.

steine13 · April 2004

Right on.
We've got a Vibe and a Sienna, and I agree completely. There is at least twice the useful space in the minivan. We really work this thing; my wife does antique shows, we use it for trips, I've taken 5 close friends canoeing (2 boats on top, six paddles and assorted gear)... the Vibe is much more fun to drive and uses significantly less gas, but minivans are great.

REALLY great is a 1995 SWB Chevy or Dodge fullsize van. 180in. long and double the inside space of a minivan...

BTW I don't know what you guys are doing with your cars, but in short-distance commuting, I get 25 mpg at best, and that's in warm weather and with a five-speed. Never seen 30 mpg yet.

-Mathias

deg856 · April 2004

Read back a few posts and you'll see that I got from 32 to 35 mpg from the last three tanks on my XR FWD auto. I've also described my commute and the way I drive.

There's a long list of things need to be known before we can begin to compare gas mileage. How short is your commute? What's the traffic like? How long does it take to cover that distance? How much idling? Surface street or freeway? At what rpm do you upshift? How hard do you brake? How much load? What's the tire pressure?

capitano · April 2004

I averaged around 25-27 mpg in my XRS in Virginia. My daily commute was about 19 miles and about 15 of that was highway cruising with no traffic problems. On long trips I've hit 31 and 32 mpg.

Here in Miami, with all the sitting at traffic lights with the AC on I've been getting 20mpg. I don't help the situation by gunning it when I get a chance either.

oac · May 2004

I don't quite care much about my mpg, I simply gun it at every chance I get. This car loves to zoom, and worrying about mpg is flat out not using the car to its optimum. Do your regular service, take care of the car, and let it rip !!

thel · May 2004

I guess it's been a while since we a had a gas mileage post-fest so here I go.

I've been getting about 27 mpg on average driving it like I stole it and seeing redlines fairly frequently. The best I've gotten is the low 30's on all highway driving.

deg856 · May 2004

Need some enlightment please - what's the point of having a little 1.8L 4-banger if getting high mpg is not the main reason?

thel · May 2004

In my case it has to do with the 8,000+ RPM redline, the 6-speed manual, and 173 hp in a sub-3,000 lb car that I can use to haul 10 left-over cases of bottled water from the Prom this last weekend. The fact that I get mid-upper 20's mpg is merely icing on the cake for me. I'd be OK if it was in the lower 20's (see WRX).

deg856 · May 2004

My outside temperature thermometer was reading low (by about 10 degrees) right after a commercial car wash, but it seemed to be back to normal a day later. I figured the car wash (with high pressure air for drying) got the temperature sensor wet and messed up the reading, and it was fine after the water dried up. I'm guessing this temperature sensor is in front of the radiator. Does anyone know what it looks like and exactly where it is?

stillageek · May 2004

If you pop the hood and look straight down you can see the gauge. It sits directly infront of the radiator. I think its an odd place for it, but it works.

oac · May 2004

Yeah.... I don't care about mpg. Why ? Its all relative. With a gaz-guzzler, v8-powered Sequoia getting a measly 15mpg, and another v8-powered LS400, getting a measly 18mpg, whatever I get from a little 1.8L 4-banger engine is a blessing. That's why it ain't that important. By my last fill-up, with a lead-foot, the Trix is getting only about 24mpg. Adequate, not stellar, but I cannot complain, compared to the other two cars in the stable....See, where I'm coming from ?

deg856 · May 2004

XR auto FWD. 1789 mi total. 354.6 mi on last tank. 11.300 gal fill up. -> 31.38 mpg. I think the slight drop from before is due to higher cruing speed; 60-65 mph before; 65-70 mph now.

OAC: I see where you're coming from. I bought the Matrix because I wanted to break away from the sub to low 20 mpg that I've been getting forever from all the cars/truck/minivan for a change, so I drive to maximize my mpg within reason. It's like a game, and it's not so much paying less for gas but the satisfaction of having something that works so efficiently. I'm happy as long as I can keep it over 30 mpg.

herzogtum71 · May 2004

For the first 15,000 miles was 26.7 mpg. Around 30 mpg when strictly highway driving.

jetgrrl · May 2004

I was shopping for an Outback when I realized no way in heck can I afford the $20k it's going to cost to get me into the new one. Tried an Outback sport and didn't like the ride. Tride a Mazda3 hatch and liked the ride but my mechanic has warned me off Mazdas. So now I'm looking at the Matrix. I'm interested in what people's experience has been iwh the Matrix in general and the AWD in particular, especially if you can compare to the Outback. Thanks.

steine13 · May 2004

If you cannot afford a new Outback, chances are you cannot afford a used one. These are strong in the used market, esp. in Boston, and need plenty of maintenance -- nothing terrible, but when you add it all up, a new '04 with all the discounts is about as cheap over the long haul as it's going to get.
Legacy? Save $2k, same car, it's worth a thought.

If money is that tight, forget the AWD. Get a Matrix and an extra set of snow tires, make sure it has ABS, get the stick for a little added fun, and you've got yourself a $16k runabout that isn't likely to need $$ thrown at it any time soon. I own a Vibe, and it's fairly loud, there's a buzz from the dash, and otherwise it's a well-handling, fun-to-drive little runabout that gets near 30 mpg and will hold its value fairly well.

If money is REALLY tight -- or if you want to keep it from getting that way -- get a $6 2001 Prizm.

Follow the link in my profile to an exhausting analysis of the subject...

-Mathias

Toyota Matrix

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