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Subaru Impreza WRX Wagon
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The major problem I found with the AT WRX is that in the non-turbo range, you are totally screwed out of power, with no way to control it. From a seat of the pants test, my XT6 has more umph off the line than the 2.0l WRX AT.
-mike
Now I am getting bugged!! ;-(
After all the detailed explanations above, the guy comes back and spouts the same old question almost as if none of the above posts happened.
Please read the following, which was conveyed in my first post...the answer to why someone would spend more money on the WRX (over the OBS), in addition to having a *** much better *** AWD system:
======================
"Also, in addition to that, the Outback Sport does not have a rear Limited Slip Differential. Due to this short-coming, there is no side-to-side power transfer. In other words, if both the wheels on the left or both the wheels on the right is on a surface that does not have traction, the Outback Sport is like a helpless baby - will not go anywhere - while the WRX Auto would smoothly power out of this situation (due to the side to side power transfer). The cars that do not have the rear LSD would only transfer power front/back or vice-versa.
=============================
Later...AH
So let us lay "the issue" to rest and enjoy our rides. I am deliriously enjoying driving this pocket-rocket (Automatic transmission and all), all over the mountains/twisty roads, with a real wide grin permanently pasted on my face. Also, this car which I originally purchased for my wife, has become my daily ride, while my other car (my previous pride and joy), the Acura 3.2TL (with the kick-[non-permissible content removed] Navigation system), has slowly become my wife's car.
Take care,
Later...AH
-mike
And all of this is without even bringing the VTD-AWD system, into the equation, which in no way, shape or form can be tacked onto to the OBS, unless one is willing to spend big-bucks...
And after all those additions, you are still stuck with an OBS at the price of a WRX and basically what you have would be an OBS with stuff tacked on, and not a WRX. So my take is, why not spend the money upfront, and get the "real thing" ??
Take care, everyone.
Later...AH
TWRX
I didn't mean to put the WRX auto down,we just didn't feel it was worth the money in our particular application,my wife isn't a performance driver per say and therefore finds the handling of the Outback nearly indiscernible from the WRX. She does wish the 2.5 had a little more power but feels it isn't worth the extra money to her to get it with the WRX. That being said I still believe the WRX is hands down the best car available for under $25,000.
Mopar - more power? That's easy. Just check i-club.com for ideas. There's a chip available for all Subaru's for a few more horses. Also a Amsoil or K&N filter will help with throttle response.
-Dennis
I think a properly broken-in auto WRX, especially with a good driver behind the wheel, could be kept in the boost and would be quite fast.
The 5 speed has the edge off the line, but once you get going it would be pretty close.
-juice
On another note, I ordered 4 Dunlop Winter Sports tires in 205/55x16 size yesterday from Tirerack. I'm going to have them mounted on my stock wheels. I think I may have to go up in the Cascades for some "snow time" once everything is mounted and ready to go.
Stephen
Oh yeah, Juice, when do I start the new test driving position for Subaru?? :-)
-juice
So if you are an aggressive driver with a well broken in Auto-WRX, then, the results may be a bit surprising for a person who has only driven the Auto-WRX at a dealership with 16 miles on it !!! The well broken in WRX with an aggressive driver would have adapted the gear shift points to the aggressive mode ! I really think it is a disservice to the "adaptive" tranny, to make "objective" comments on it with a short drive at the dealership with the car having 5 miles on it.
In the BMW SMG auto-manual transmission (which incidentally does not have a torque-converter like a conventional automatic), you can adjust the "aggressiveness" of the shifting, manually ! The SMG does not have to "learn" like the Auto-WRX transmission.
In addition to this, there is an automatic "power mode" in the transmission, which when engaged, will not upshift until redline in every single shift. The car would always be in its boost zone. And as we all know, the Auto-WRX in the boost zone, is a rocket. And when coupled with active and rapid torque transfer characteristics (of the exclusive VTD-AWD system), would make for one fun ride. Again, food for thought.....
Later...AH
-juice
Later...AH
-juice
Also, note that this article was written a while back with the opinions expressed pertaining to the Auto-trannies of those days....auto trannies have meanwhile evolved with grade-logic control etc.
http://www.racer-x.f2s.com/proc/transdebate.htm
Later...AH
His theory goes against the fact that off-the-line acceleration is quicker with manuals, because a torque converter will allow only a certain rpm, while the sky's the limit with the manual. Drop the clutch at 4000rpm, you'll pass any auto. Even 3000rpm will launch faster.
He completely ignores the gearing advantage a 5 speed offers over a 4 speed auto, and the higher up-front cost of the automatic. He says a clutch is expensive to replace, but it's half the up-front cost of an auto, and replacing an auto tranny costs about 5-10 times more!
The "jolt and chirp" he talks about are things customers complain about, not advantages, and it's actually much easier to chirp the tires with a manual.
I dunno, that article it full of flawed logic.
-juice
Stephen
It is better for towing, and even for driving on loose sand. It's more convenient and comfortable, too. If you have to lend the car to someone, they are far more likely to know how to drive it. And resale is easier and likely higher as well.
Plenty of trade-offs, some good, some bad.
-juice
That's odd. In my wife's 99 OB Ltd., I do buy into the adaptive shift. My wife can actually accelerate her car better than I can. I drive it maybe once or twice a month. When I give it the gas, I floor it too hard and it kinda stalls. Two weeks ago she suprised me at a busy intersection with the car's fast pick up. I was like, "How'd you do that?!?!" Maybe it's because she has the lighter, leaner 99 model. ;-)
Dennis
-mike
Kidding! If I can make it and have the time, I will.
-juice
He he... Boy, is he.
He almost had me wet my pants. And, we were only tailing him to a local Diner. :-D
-Dave
Stephen
bought a blk wrx 5spd wgn about 3wks ago. just suffered thru 1000 miles of restrained driving. live in minnesota so took it in to dealer yesterday for engine block heater. drove home (3mi). then later drove slowly (<2000rpm) to get coffee. foggy and windows wouldn't clear so looked at temp guage and it was in the RED!!! stopped and towed to subaru.
they admit to having screwed up, "air lock".
what do i do now? they say it is fine, and are going to give me some oil changes. that doesn't make me feel much better.
any suggestions
Well, that got me to thinking, and the next day I woke up knowing what to do. Last night I picked up my 5sp silver WRX wagon at the dealer. Took a 25 mile canyon detour on the way to work this morning. Man, did I make the right decision!!! (for me, just for me) This thing is even better than I thought. And I've already made peace with the slightly wacky styling. Hell, I'm a little wacky myself.
So thanks everybody, this site has not only been a fun diversion but has actually helped me with a pretty big decision, and I couldn't be happier about it.
Did I mention that I LOVE my WRX?
Jabukwa- Sorry to hear about your vehicle problem. If you don't get a response here soon, you should also post (copy/paste) your message in our Subaru Crew - General Maintenance & Repair discussion. Good luck.
Revka
Host
Hatchbacks / Station Wagons / Women's Auto Center Boards
Easier to talk on the cellphone as you weave in and out of traffic at high speeds...
Easier for the wifey to put on her eye makeup while driving, when she is using the car....
Yup, those seem to be the things that really count the most to your average slush box driver.
But I know my friend who talks on the cellphone while driving and he drives a stick-shift.
Later...AH
But I swear, I have seen many women in these 5000 pound Chevy Suburbans PUTTING ON THEIR MAKEUP WHILE DRIVING!!! Aaaaargh!
Wouldn't want to be hit by that Suburban while in a Rex...
through Autotrader on their National Website. Prices asked were about $2-2.5K under brand new.
What was significant was that there were no Outbacks of the same current year offered at all.
Does that mean that buyers of WRX's are unhappy
and bought into all the magazine hype only to find the real world experience was different, whereas the Outback owners experiences were more in line with what they expected?
If so how will this affect resale values two or three years down the road. I notice that the projected redidual values of OB's are 2% higher
than WRX after 24 months. However, those projections are guesswork, but those are the figures supplied to banks and leasing companies.
Most "sporty" type cars have held their values well, why should the WRX be an exception?
-mike
Later...AH
-mike
PS: Just some friday fun.
Also, if some people have bought the WRX based on hype built up by magazines, then it is better that they sell these cars off and "real enthusiasts" pick these gems up. Good riddance of "bad blood", jmho !
Later...AH
-mike
- Paul
For the record, like the manual WRX, the Auto-WRX is a ** rocket ** once it enters the boost-zone....no ifs or buts about it. "All the vaunted horsepower and torque" are still around, don't worry !!!Before entering the boost-zone, both the manual and the Automatic are a bit sluggish, which IMO, is a good thing, since it would be useful during deep snow, since we can better modulate power, off-boost.
Off the line, the WRX (Auto or Manual) does not have the "thrust" of my Acura 3.2TL, nor the linearity of power delivery, but once you get used to its "power characteristics", it is like driving any other car. Did I mention the addictiveness of the "riding on rails feel" ?
Disclaimer: I am not talking about situations where you indulge in vehicle abuse by pumping rpms up and then dumping the clutch during launch.
Later...AH
-mike
This argument does not apply to cars on the dealer lot with 5 miles on the Odometer, since the Auto-tranny of the WRX is ADAPTIVE. In a well broken in Auto-WRX with an aggressive driver at the helm (for a while, when the tranny "learns" the driving style), the way the car reaches the boost zone (and retains it there) is completely different from the feel in a "newbie Auto-WRX" on the dealer's lot with 5 miles on it. I don't think it is fair to make "judgemental observations" about the car after driving the "green specimen" at the dealership, especially due to the "adaptable" nature of the Transmission.
This "adaptability" of Auto-transmissions would be more pronounced in a Turbo-charged car than in a Normally Aspirated car.
Note: Not all Auto-transmissions have the "adaptability" built-in.
Later...AH
Auto tranny=frictional losses, no matter how smart it is (and the WRX slushbox is pretty smart). Also, the fact that it's one ratio down on the manual means that you're likely to fall out of boost more often.
You can giggle about no fake wood but the UK has it as an option. :-) They also have 4 pot brakes, 17" wheels standard and various other goodies.
AH - Yes, it is easy to overcome the turbo-lag in the manual by keeping the revs up around 2500-3000 or so. Of course, constant launches at 3000 will put a lot of wear on the tranny. ;-)
We should have never told AH how to use bold.
-Dennis
Stephen
-mike
As I said earlier, it is definitely preferable to have the WRX in a Manual, if it is equipped with the VTD-AWD system.
I think Subaru is doing a disservice to the Manual WRX buyers, when they are foisting the VC-AWD system on them. The WRX gets nothing special over the models below it. Other than turbo-charging and bigger anti-roll bars/LSD, the WRX-manual is a mirror image of the RS, that costs 1000s less, while the WRX-auto (due to its overwhelmingly better VTD-AWD system), is well worth the premium it commands over the RS-Auto.
My order of preference for the WRX configuration would be as follows:
1) WRX manual with VTD-AWD (does not exist)
2) WRX Auto with VTD-AWD (tie)
2) WRX Manual with VC-AWD (tie)
The deficiencies of the VC-AWD due to its very nature - using a center differential based on a Viscous Coupling with fluid filled in, to transfer torque = slow and inefficient transfer of torque, has outweighed the advantages of the stick-shift, IMHO. Use of the viscous fluid is akin to the Auto-transmissions having a torque converter as opposed to a direct gear linkage in the manuals. These cars are admired for their AWD sytems and not for their stiffer suspensions or stick-shifts, and on that criteria, the WRX-manual is not very strong, even though the AWD of the WRX-manual, manages to get the job done, as long as you don't really tax it. If needed, I can try and explain, where the deficiencies of this AWD system lie, which are pretty glaring, to say the least.
Also, the auto-WRX, inspite of the handicap of the lack of a stick-shift, has risen up the rankings due to its over-whelmingly superior AWD system, when compared to the VC AWD system, employed by the manual-WRX. In fact, this is one of the most sophisticated systems currently available in the market, among all makes and models, equalling in sophistication, the previous generation Mercedes 4-matic and/or the AWD employed by the previous gen.Porsche 911 turbo.
I would not even be debating this point about the manual-WRX, if it came equipped with the VTD-AWD system. Without it, the comparison becomes sort of a wash, in-spite of violent disagreement from manual-WRX owners.
just my 2c.
Quickly donning my double layered flame-suit and ducking....
Later...AH