Subaru Impreza WRX Wagon

paisan · November 2001

yep, some people like to live on the edge, I wouldn't let *me* behind the wheel

-mike

ateixeira · November 2001

Bill: congrats and I envy you!

-juice

p0926 · November 2001

Why AH? Why? Just when everyone's finished expressing their opinions and all have agreed to respectfully disagree (with the exception of cupholder who just likes to bait you), you have to reopen the can of worms by posting inflammatory (and totally unsubstantiated if you ask any manual tranny owner) statements regarding the auto WRX's "over-whelmingly superior AWD system"? We are all of course biased towards our own setup and have a natural instinct to justify our purchase decision but it's glaringly apparent that you've bought into the VTD-AWD sales pitch hook, line and sinker. Sure the VTD-AWD is a more sophisticated setup but to state that it is "overwhelmingly" better than that in the manual trans WRX is a heck of a reach. Besides quoting from fellow WRX auto tranny owners praising their own system (that read like excerpts from sales brochures), have you test-driven both in various conditions? After all, theories are fine but only in real world driving situations can the advantages and disadvantages of each be determined.

-Frank P.

paisan · November 2001

VTD is far superiorior as is the regular AT AWD system than the VC of the MTs. That is pretty much agreed upon, but the MTs do have the advantage of manual control of the gears, and that is an advantage all of it's own.

-mike

lark6 · November 2001

I believe that all this wrangling would be settled if one skilled driver would take two identically equipped WRX wagons or sedans - one with MT and one with AT, both with equivalent mileage - and put them through their paces under identical conditions. Include smooth pavement with straights and twisties, rough pavement, gravel and mud, ice and snow, then throw in 2 hours of bumper-to-bumper Northeast Corridor traffic to top it all off. Only then would we have useful results.

Volunteers?

Ed

paisan · November 2001

Sign me up, I'll even pay for the gas!

-mike

hunter001 · November 2001

Okay, okay I promise not to discuss this issue again. I never intended the comments to be inflammatory. If it came across that way, then it is entirely un-intentional, even though I felt it might roil the waters a bit.

Anyway, I am sure all of us are enjoying our valuable purchases, and hope we are all having fun. I sure am having a lot of fun with my ride, Auto trans and all. :-)

I will not respond to any bait (from cupholder or otherwise) pertaining to this issue. I promise. As far as I am concerned, this issue is closed.

Take care everyone.

Later...AH

dill6 · November 2001

I want to put a roof mounted cargo box ("rocket box") on my WRX wagon. Anyone have experience doing this? I know the load limit's 100# - that's adequate for the skis and boots I plan on carrying up there - but will it take a box long enough for skis? The Thule and Yakima boxes are around 89" in length - is there enough available space between the crossbars to provide the necessary stability for a box this long?

Also, I heard the Subaru branded roof-mounting stuff is actually from Yakima. True? My salesman said he would get me any accessories I wanted at cost, pretty nice I thought.

Would appreciate any experiences other Impreza owners may have had w/this.

bluesubie · November 2001

Sorry AH. I can't let those VC comments go by. I guarantee the VC is not deficient in any way. What do you mean by slow transfer of torque? Tell me exactly how slow it is. Why do you think Porsche currently uses it on the C4. We got over 30" of snow in Central NJ last winter. I can tell you that the VC performs flawlessly. If you're ever in the area during a snow, let me know.

IMHO, you cannot comment on the effectiveness of a VC vs. the VTD until you have driven both in the same slippery conditions. Yes, the VC is slightly slower but is already at 50/50. You can read all you want about Subaru's different systems, but don't knock it until you try it. Have I driven a VTD? No, but I've had lengthy conversations about it with the owner of a Subaru dealership. ;-)

Dennis

bluesubie · November 2001

The box is made (or used to be) by Mont Blanc. Maybe you can get info on their web page or searching the i-club.

Dennis

hunter001 · November 2001

To comment on Porsche's use of the VC, Porsche used a very sophisticated AWD system in their earlier version Turbo (similar to the VTD-AWD but implemented slightly differently), basically to tame the deadly and unruly over-steer that that version was famous for. When coupled with the Turbo's extreme power, it was a sure-fire recipe for disaster.

In the current version, Porsche re-designed the rear suspension, which did away with the need for a sophisticated AWD system, with its attendant costs for the manufacturer. Due to this redesign, Porsche could manage with a VC in the current iteration, since the deadly over-steering was tamed with the suspension re-design, and the power itself could be managed with the VC. In other words, in the earlier version (of the 911 Turbo), the VC would not have sufficed to tame the beast - it needed far more than that.

Hope this helps.

Later...AH

lark6 · November 2001

Dennis: Mont Blanc - not the fountain pen company?

Ed

paisan · November 2001

IIRC the porsche doesn't have a 50/50 split. If I remember reading correctly it was like 30/70 or something, mostly RWD not FWD. I'm not sure a VC could produce that torque split. Also I have to disagree with you wholeheartedly on this one dennis, the VC in the MT subies is good, but the VTD/AT AWD system is far superior. Now if the AT/VTD systems were available with MT, would you prefer your VC over it? I think not.

-mike

hunter001 · November 2001

Basically, usually for vehicles that begin life as a RWD vehicle (and then converted to AWD), the torque split is 60+% biased to the rear while for vehicles that begin life as a FWD vehicle, the torque split is biased to the front wheels. That is because, Auto-makers would not want to drastically alter the normal driving behavior of the car, since that would involve a lot of re-engineering of the vehicle internals and a lot of unique parts having to be created for the AWD and the 2-wheel drive variant.

If you notice, when vehicles have both the 2-wheel drive variant and also an AWD variant, the torque split in the AWD variant would be biased in the direction of the 2-wheel drive version of the same vehicle. Eg. Mercedes 4-matic would have a rear-bias in the torque split. So would the Porsche etc. But the Audi cars would not have a rear-bias since they began life as a FWD product. So would the Acura MDX (loosely based on the FWD Honda Odyssey).

Later...AH

hunter001 · November 2001

Automakers have engineered the front (in case of FWD vehicle) or the real axle (in case of a RWD vehicle) of the vehicle to take 100% of the power/torque in the 2-wheel drive variant. When they add AWD, they add another axle which can take additional torque/power as needed. But the engineering itself (of the "new" axle) is not designed to accomodate 100% (or a major chunk) of the power/torque for long durations of time. So the bias of the torque would be toward the stronger axle, which in case of an AWD vehicle that began life as a FWD vehicle, would be the Front axle or in case of the AWD vehicle that began life as a RWD vehicle, would be the rear axle.

Later...AH

bluesubie · November 2001

mike - a VC could indeed produce that torque split. Most of them anywhere from 90/10 - 10/90. Get down to Flemington and ask for Ridge about the effectiveness of the VC. Don't rely on "I drove my cousin's mother's 5-speed the other day ..." :-D

AH - Who's your source? Eliot Lim?

Dennis

paisan · November 2001

VC strives for 50/50 split as a std. The nature of the fluid dictates that it wants to equalize forces to the 2 axles, the same as the way an LSD works. I don't see how you could have a 90/10 split on a VC as a standard split.

I'm not doubting the VC is good, but if you believe it's better than the electronically controlled clutch plates you are off-base.

-mike

bluesubie · November 2001

mike - Yes, standard is 50/50. I didn't realize you were talking about the standard split.

Ed - I'm 99% sure the cargo box is made by Mont Blanc. I'm not sure if it's the same company that makes pens or not.

-Dennis

taos2 · November 2001

Thule has a model that will fit but you have
to drill forward mounting holes farther back
than factory specs creating a larger front
overhang. I actually placed the unit on my
rack to check. I thought the overhang could
cause excess stress at highway speeds and called
Thule to ask. Of course they didn't recommend
installing it that way so I passed. By the way, Subaru's round bar system is Yakima.
I ended up just putting a Yakima Powderhound
ski rack on. Now if it would only snow!

Good luck,

Steven

hunter001 · November 2001

Yesterday, after having driven my Auto WRX for >2000 miles, I went to our local dealership and drove the 5-speed WRX. Basically, I could not find any discernible difference between the manual WRX and my Auto-WRX which was broken in well and whose performance was gradually built up to my present aggressive levels. It was certainly sluggish off-the-line exactly like my Auto-WRX. Later I drove 2 other brand-new Auto-WRXs at the dealership (a sedan and a wagon) and it was noticeably sluggish. Later on, I drove an Auto TS-Wagon (same engine as the Outback Sport) and found that off-the-line it was slightly better than the Auto-WRX but runs out of steam quickly when the speed rises to 60mph and beyond. I took it to the highway and it was noticeably lacking in any guts, when compared to my Auto-WRX, which is a literal kamikaze on the highway. The turbo-lag (of the Auto-WRX and the manual WRX) could prove very useful during the snows, since you can modulate the speed very well when off the turbo-boost.

The lesson from that was that Auto-WRX (due to its adaptive transmission), will drive sluggishly when brand-new (with very few miles on it) but transforms dramatically after a couple of thousand miles.

Incidentally, our dealership has over 6 manual WRXs on the lot (2 wagons and 4 sedans) and every single Auto-WRX that pops in at the dealership, sells within the first two days. The silver manual-WRX wagon I drove has been on their lot for a couple of weeks now. So if we exclude this group of manual lovers, the Auto-WRXs have been flying off the lots while the manual waits for buyers. Just a heads-up.

Later...AH

p0926 · November 2001

AH- You don't think that the fact that 80% of the WRX's produced are manuals has somemthing to do with it?

Also, just so you know, some of your statements regarding the MT WRX could certainly be interpreted to portray you as someone who"is deliberately evading its virtues and trying to justify his purchase of a different product, by putting it down"

-Frank P.

dill6 · November 2001

taos2: that was my impression - that there's insufficient distance between the crossbars even when they're placed as far apart as possible to securely hold a full length box, plus the overhang would be excessive if placed forward - making it unstabile at hiway speeds - or interfering with the rear hatch if placed rearward. Is that the conclusion you came to? I went down to the dealer yesterday and Subaru sells a short box for the Impreza, but not a long one. The parts guy also said he THOUGHT a long box would be too big.

Too bad, cause it sure would be nice to able to just throw all the mucky stuff up there, but I guess a ski rack and a plastic tub for boots will work, as it always has. Trouble is my wife gets all freaky about road dirt getting in her bindings so we (meaning I) have to put the skis in a bag, THEN on the rack, oh so very tidy...

I guess you're in Taos? I skied there once, what a great mountain...though the Wasatch ain't too shabby either...pray for snow!!!

barresa62 · November 2001

yesterday. This is a genuine Subaru part, although not currently offered in the US of A. I paid the equivalent of $64 incl shipping. It mounts on the insert panel at the end of the console (normally where an ashtray might be). It's a dual cupholder setup. I will post pics after I install.

Oops...found a link w/pic of the holder here. Just scroll down a bit to find.

http://www.new-impreza.com/upgrades.htm

Stephen

thorsen · November 2001

Thanks to everyone here for answering my questions...unfortunately for me the WRX will have to wait. My wife is set on a '02 CRV and I've decided my best chance at getting her to buy in on the WRX is to let her have exactly what she wants now so that when my lease runs out in a year and a half I can get exactly what I want (WRX 5 sp -- maybe even an STi by that point!!) We were almost set on a Jetta 1.8T wagon which gives surprisingly good cargo space, a great feel, nice performance, and lots of amenities (leather, heated seats, sunroof, tiptronic auto) but it would have been a compromise from what we both wanted. Plus I can save a few grand on the CRV

Now I just have to prepare myself to be driving around in a pretend SUV

Actually we could still end up with the Jetta since I refuse to pay MSRP for the CRV -- I told the sales guy he has 2 months to get me a CRV for my price or we go with the Jetta that is on order. We'll see...

narenji · November 2001

Hello everyone, I've read through both wrx wagon forums here at Edmunds. I've drooled over WRXs ever since I read about them and played them in Gran Turismo for the PSX. I was ecstatic when they were going to bring the WRX here. But when me and my fiance were out car shopping in April 2001, the WRXs were hard to come by here in So. Cal and were selling way over MSRP. So we bought a Sentra SE 5 spd w/ the Perf package. It's a pretty good car with a slightly choppy ride. It handles well and has good build quality. It's got that nice SR20DE engine in there though. I also wanted to get a Sentra with ABS but that turned to be impossible to find. I'd like to have ABS, which the WRX has standard.

My fiancee and I are kinda sick of the ride of the Sentra and I can't find a comfortable seating position at all. So I've been looking at a few cars and the WRX is a very viable option. I know I'll take a hit with the trade in value of the Sentra, but how many of you still think getting the WRX is a good idea? I found out my insurance will go up about $400 a year compared to the Sentra, and my fuel costs will no doubt be higher. I think a WRX is within my means.

I know Subarus are reliable, but I've read within these boards and i-club forums about ABS problems with some WRXs? This concerns me and I'd like to get an idea of the seriousness and frequency of this ABS brake phenomenon that scares drivers on bumpy roads (the ABS totally removes braking pressure and lets the car coast a little after you hit a bump).

I have located plenty of Silver 5 spd wagons in the LA area and dealers are willing to talk $500 over invoice without even meeting in person. Any and all input in helping me decide is appreciated.

thanks,
narenji

twrx · November 2001

I have nothing but good things to say about the wrx wagon 5 speed that I have. I traded a Forester in on it. I had the Forester for 4 years. There were clutch problems with it but other than that I was very happy with it. I have 7200 miles on my new wrx aznd have not had any problems at all with it. The build quality has been perfect. While the mileage has not been great it has been getting its EPA estimated 20/27 since about the 3000 mile mark. Premium here in Indiana is very cheap (as low as $1.08 lately). I have had no ABS problems. The sport seats fit like a glove (for real). I'm rather big at 6" and 250 lbs. and those things are great. Just as you get into the car you feel the support of the seat. Car is really fun to drive (duh). and the cool thing is being a wagon it is practical. (Hauling things from the home improvement store, hauling my dogs around in it, and hopefully going to Colorado next summer to do some fun stuff n mountain roads.) The wrx's turbo should be the answer for high altitude driving. Then there is the what is it factor. WRX is rare around here so there is never a shortage of stares as to what this thing is that I am driving. Buy one.

TWRX

narenji · November 2001

Thank you for your words. I test drove a white WRX 5 spd today. It felt kinda sluggish, but I wasnt really flogging it because even though I would never buy the car I test drove (it had over 100 miles already), I didn't want to be too rough on a new turbo. I did feel very good power on the freeway past 3000 rpm. It seems like you really have to keep the car in boost for good acceleration. I wish the Subaru turbo gave a broad torque peak like VW-Audi engines have. I drove a 1.8T GTI a while ago, and it felt more lively from a standing start, but ran out of steam on the freeway, which is where the WRX really pulls hard. The firm suspension also doesn't let the car tip much during acceleration, which further reduces the sense of acceleration. It did handle like it was on rails, and the brakes were strong.

The dealer claimed that there is training chip that only lets the engine operate at 85% for the first 500 miles or so to aid break-in. I wasn't aware of such a device. I thought the break in procedure was under human control. He also claimed that I should keep the revs under 5000 for the first 1000 miles. I didn't think the limit was as high as 5000 rpm, I thought it was closer to 4000rpm. I'll be checking out another dealer tomorrow.

hgutstein · November 2001

Your guy doesn't know what he is talking about. WRX wagon is great, ride is excellent even on choppy roads. You need to keep revs under 4K for first 1000 miles, and to avoid the "lag" you need to launch the car at 2-3K rpm so the turbo spools up right away. It takes a couple of days to get that just right. Have fun! (PS blue is the color to get!)

barresa62 · November 2001

Once again, a salesperson that doesn't know their product or is deliberately misstating facts to benefit a perceived sale.

LOL...I'll have to make an exception to hgutstein's factual post...that is "silver" is the color to get. You can blend in and go undercover much easier. Plus, the color just looks classy, IMHO. :-)

Stephen

barresa62 · November 2001

Here are some shots of WRXs in blue and silver, mine is the silver wagon.

http://community.webshots.com/album/24940519oAkyJyIkkE

Stephen

twrx · November 2001

Does Richard Burns drive a silver WRX? I think not! HEH HEH ! Seriously I have the blue and i've seen the silver and it looks nice too. Black and white are good too. I don't like any red that Subaru is doing this year. Training chip? Next the dealer will say that you need to drive it with training wheels for the first 1000. Kept it under 4000 for the first 1000.

TWRX

hunter001 · November 2001

"Also, just so you know, some of your statements regarding the MT WRX could certainly be interpreted to portray you as someone who"is deliberately evading its virtues and trying to justify his purchase of a different product, by putting it down"

I have been freely speaking about the advantage in the manual control of the gears in the manual transmissioned WRX, which is definitely an advantage over the Auto-equipped WRX, where you do not have manual control over the gears. Also, for me, even if the Manual-WRX came with the same AWD system as the Auto-WRX, it was not an option at all for me, since my wife definitely wanted an Auto. So where in the heavens have I "deliberately evaded the manual-WRX's virtues" ?!! As mentioned earlier, the manual-WRX is a very good value for the price at which it is being sold for. So is the Auto-WRX. No ifs or buts about it !!

Later...AH

barresa62 · November 2001

1subydown1togo · November 2001

Get Blue!!!!!!!!!!!

barresa62 · November 2001

yeah, get blue coz it's gettin' harder to make my silver wagon stand out from all the other silver WRXs! :-)

Stephen

narenji · November 2001

We saw some blue ones at Frank's Irvine Subaru, but in the end I went for a silver 5spd from Assael in Monrovia. I personally like Silver better because it hides dirt and scratches better. I prefer darker blues than the WR Blue, but it's a great color too. Debbie, the internet/fleet person was very helpful and made it a very pleasurable experience. I was actually able to get a dealer unwind vehicle w/ 500 mi on it. It was $2000 off new car invoice, so it was a good deal. Plus, they were going to give me only $11250 for my sentra, so getting the unwind vehicle made my loss less.

The car was originally sold by Debbie also, and she said that the guy who bought it in Late July/Early august was an engineer, around 29, male, and he was trying to sell his truck on the open market as he bought this WRX. He was unable to sell the truck quickly, and with the new house mortgage he had, the dealer couldn't qualify him because on paper it looked like he couldn't afford it. Anyway, the car's in great shape and doesn't drive any differently than a new one I drove earlier yesterday. The guy who had the car before me was anal, so hopefully he didn't abuse the turbo and give it enough time to cool down.

I also purchased the extended Subaru warranty because it gave me a great low APR of 5.5%, which made my finance charges less than the usual APR of 6.9% without the warranty. Now I have a full bumper to bumper coverage for 7yrs/100k miles. The warranty was $1929, but Frank's quoted me $2100 for the same, so I guess I did ok. I know that it's tough to figure out how much dealers actually pay Subaru for the warranty. I have never purchased an extended warranty, but thought it might be a good idea given the complexity of the WRX and the turbo. Any comments on my purchase? I'm actually extremely happy with the car and can't wait for the 1000 mile barrier to pass.

pattim3 · November 2001

Congratulations! FYI - you don't have to worry about "cool down" on this turbo set up. It's fine to just shut it off.

I hope you enjoy your new ride!

Patti

hunter001 · November 2001

Congrats on your purchase ! I am sure you would have a long ownership with an absolutely fabulous car ! Enjoy.

Later...AH

dill6 · November 2001

I've had my WRX 5sp wagon just over a week now - over the last three days we've had the heaviest snowfall in and around Salt Lake in the 7 years I've lived here. Up to 8 feet in the mountains, around 2 feet where I live. The WRX provides astonishing grip, even with the OEM Bridgestones. Only rarely have I been able to feel any slippage at all and even then for a split second only. The ABS engages readily and functions beautifully - stops are dead straight and much shorter than I could manage with conventional brakes.

This is my first AWD and ABS equipped vehicle. I've been making-do with an Integra and snow tires since I moved out here - the difference is nothing short of astounding. I felt sorry for the front drivers I passed this AM stuck with their noses in snow banks on my way in to work.

On the down side, I REALLY wish Subaru would have offered the winter package for the WRX. Freezing wiper blades, etc. are a real pain in the a**.

barresa62 · November 2001

Thanks for the snow update w/the WRX. I have a 5spd wagon as well. I haven't had the WRX up in the snow yet. We've only had rain in Seattle (per winter usual) thus far. I'm excited to see how well the wagon does w/the Dunlop Wintersports that I've ordered. They are a performance winter tire w/better grip in the dry/wet than the stock RE92s. Come on tires and come on snow.... :-)

BTW, I second what you say about the lack of winter package. Why only the Canadians got it I'll never understand and Subaru's not talking! Patti...??? :-)

Stephen

ateixeira · November 2001

Anyone else notice that the US Rally champ will be chatting with us this Thursday?

Cool stuff!

-juice

barresa62 · November 2001

I'll just have to guard myself from getting too cocky! :-)

Stephen

narenji · November 2001

Thank you everyone for your congratulatory remarks. I feel confident for the first time that I made the right choice with this car. I love driving it even if it is only to the local fast food restaurant for some lunch. All my co-workers remarked how sedate it looks despite having some serious performance underneath.

DILL6, yeah Subaru had to cut costs somewhere. The OBS comes with the cross bar standard, and it is a $200 option on the WRX. That's ok though, because OBS owners will probably use the crossbar more. Things like heated seats, mirrors, and wipers would be good, especialy in colder climates. At least the rear wiper has a heater in the glass. I'm loving the car otherwise and can't wait until I can safety swing the tach past 4000- the turbo must really show its magic there. Happy driving everybody, and drive safe because not everyone out there has a Subaru!

narenji · November 2001

Are you sure about the cool down procedure for this turbo? I've heard, and the dealer recommended at least 30 secs of cool down time, 1 min max. Can anyone else confirm the proper cool-down time for the WRX turbo engine? Thanks,
narenji

p0926 · November 2001

Naren- Turbo cool down has been discussed in one of these WRX topics before. Although Subaru states that it is unnecessary, it certainly can't hurt and most owners agree that a 30 sec cool down after spirited driving is a good idea.

-Frank P.

WarpDrive · November 2001

There was a post a while back on i-club with a technical explanation directly from Subaru that showed why the WRX doesn't need a cool down period. It's still a good idea to do so I think. I leave the engine running while I put on my Disklock.

ateixeira · November 2001

Instead of a cool down, I would basically just drive it slowly into my neighborhood or as I reached my destination. In my case, that a couple of blocks at less than 3000 rpm, and ought to be fine.

-juice

hunter001 · November 2001

AH, no offense but "the auto-RS cannot hold a candle to it" tell that to the guys who beat WRXs all the time with their auto-rs or auto-XT6

Paisan, if you go back and read my original post, it states:

When compared to the WRX-Auto, the Auto-RS cannot hold a candle to it, when it comes to its AWD system !!!!

The keyword is "AWD system" not its low-rpm torque or any such thing useful in Auto-X.

Later...AH

hunter001 · November 2001

Basically, a gentle drive for about half a mile or so (without turbo-boost) functions as a cool-down. I personally cool my car down for slightly over a minute or so, everytime I come to a stop after a spirited run regardless of whether I drove gently for the past half a mile. I also warm the car for about a minute in the morning and drive very gently for the next couple of miles till the operating temperature becomes normal, and slowly raise the performance, before doing any high rpm runs. But that's just me !

Later...AH

jaserb · November 2001

What dealer sold you your wagon? I'll be looking to buy in the next few months (hopefully...) and I don't know anything about the dealers in Utah. My e-mail is in my profile, if you'd rather respond that way.
Thanks,
Jason

Subaru Impreza WRX Wagon

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