Subaru Impreza WRX Wagon

dill6 · November 2001

I bought mine from Nate Wade Subaru, downtown Salt Lake, and I found them straightforward to deal with. My salesman was John Westover, and I would recommend him too. Very low key, helpful, knowlegable on the product, and no stupid car salesman tricks. I arrived at a price $700 over invoice after about 20 seconds of negociation, and that was good enough for me. Probably could have done a little better, but I didn't feel like grinding it out for maybe a couple hundred bucks. They were very nice about providing me all the test drives I wanted with no pressure to buy until I was ready.

There's a dealer called Barber in Orem, closer to you, but I don't know anything about them. Good luck!

Oh, also - Nate Wade's doesn't tack on any phony "paperwork fees" or paint treatments, etc. that are nothing but pure profit for the dealer. I was surprised on one trip to a Honda dealer to find them still trying that. I thought all that baloney was a thing of the past.

bluesubie · November 2001

I've read the posts on the i-club and here about how it's not necessary (but still can't hurt).

Here's my question:
Why does the UK WRX recommend a cool down? Anything to do with the TGV's?

Dennis

ateixeira · November 2001

It is a different state of tune (215hp, IIRC). Also, our roads are more open so the turbo probably runs cooler most of the time.

-juice

jaserb · November 2001

I've driven past Nate Wade a few times - if you bought the blue wagon w/ short shifter, I hate you! I was drooling over that car a few weeks ago. Barbers is a Subaru / Mitsu dealer, and they've had the same red wagon w/ carbon fiber trim (waste of money) for months now. I've thought about seeing if they're ready to get rid of it for close to invoice, but I've got my heart set on WR Blue. Need to get rid of a truck first, though.
-Jason

savka67 · November 2001

savka67 · November 2001

I recently read that the wheels on the wrx wagon are set up with inward camber up front and outward camber in the back - thus to some degree contributing for the "tail happy" nature of the wagon vs the sedan.

Can anyone confirm this and if so why?

thanks- sm

bill_1 · November 2001

I am just curious, how reliable will the Turbo on the WRX be? I really like everything I have seen about the WRX, but I am worried that the Turbo might blow up on me at 60,000 miles (I have a friend who has gone through two turbos on his Toyota Supra). Any thoughts would be appreciated thanks.

dill6 · November 2001

Just curious, how hard do you have to flog it to discover the "tail happy" nature of the WRX wagon? I must not be getting anywhere near the limits of its handling...

hunter001 · November 2001

The Toyota Supra had a slightly different Turbo design, which needed a cool-down cycle, after being driven around. Without that cool-down time, the turbo is basically waiting to blow-up its bearings. Your friend probably was impatient and did not keep the engine running after driving around, thus shortening the life of the turbo.

In the WRX turbo, Subaru designed the turbo in such a way that, it does not require a cool-down cycle. Due to its design, it does not affect its bearings and with minimal care, should last till the life of the engine (250,000 miles ??). As for myself, I do keep the engine running for a minute after driving around, just to be on the safe side.

Later...AH

ateixeira · November 2001

Isn't it liquid cooled with some flow happening even after the engine shuts down, something like that?

-juice

cliffj1 · November 2001

Why the debate here? Don't you think that SOA would specify a cool down period for the turbo if one was needed? I went through this same sort of logic with my BMW's which recommend a roughly 7500 mile oil change interval. There are those who have suggested that BMW would put their engines at risk with this extended drain period. I doubt it. A friend has an 84 325e with 235K miles--and not one problem, with oil changes at 7500 or more, as indicated by the indicator lights. I wrote SOA directly about the cool down period and they flatly said none is needed. They would have put it in the owners manual otherwise. I would guess that one might want to cool the tubo after racing, but not for normal driving. Excessive idling of any car causes carbon deposits and in the long run, it "ain't good". I think it just makes sense to follow Subaru's recommendation--which is, "Drive it like any other car".
Cliff

ramiller1 · November 2001

Subaru says that absolutely no cool down is needed. I called SOA on this right after we got our WRX wagon and they read me the engineering memo that said that the cool down problem is solved.
Apparantly, coolant continues to circulate through the turbo even after the engine is shut off, so no damage will occur and you can treat it just like a regular engine.

IMHO, excessive idling the engine probably does more harm than turning the engine right off after some spirited driving--but this only applies to the WRX. But then, OK, if its 100 degrees outside and the engine has been really running hard, then I would let it idle for a couple minutes or so.

The single best thing to make this engine and the turbo last a long time is change over to Mobil 1 after the 1000 mi. break-in. It is actually cheaper than using conventional oil in the long run, because you can go twice as long between re-builds when you conscientiously use a synthetic. You will also get a slight 3-4 boost in hp.
--RA

hunter001 · November 2001

The single nasty thing you can do to a mass-produced engine is to interfere with the break-in (which takes place over about 10,000 miles) by putting in synthetic oils like Mobil1. Synthetic works too well and do not provide the friction for the rough spots in the engine to be worked out. Some special purpose engines that are broken-in at the factory, have Mobil1 filled in at the factory. For all other engines, it is better to wait till about 10,000 miles before filling in Synthetic.

A good resource for this is:

http://www.seansa4page.com/resource/breakin.html

Later...AH

cliffj1 · November 2001

Hey, Gang:
Anyone know where I can get a nice wooden gear shift knob? I don't like the weird looking carbon-fiber or plastic knobs designed for Subaru's. And how do you get the shift knob off? It doesn't pull straight off and it doesn't unscrew. Thanks!
Cliff

xcskier · November 2001

Greetings to all you Edmunds regulars. I'm new to the site.

I don't yet own a WRX, but am close to purchasing one (5 spd wagon). Once I get it, I'm leaning very strongly to outfitting it with Nokian Hakkapelliita snow tires in winter only, and sticking with the OEM Bridgestones for summer driving. I live in the Salt Lake City area, and I drive daily between the Salt Lake valley (~4500 feet) and Summit County (~7500 feet).

I've heard aweseome comments about these tires for winter performance. Some reviews reprinted in Nokian's website (obviously biased) claim they out-perform any other winter tire. I believe they're widely used in winter rallies.

I wouldn't run them in summer, since they would wear very fast at temperature.

Anyone out there familiar with this brand? Think this would be a lean, mean, traction machine when combined with the AWD of the WRX?

Would it even be necessary... it seems like lots of owners are very pleased with the grip of the standard tires. I'm going for max traction and security in some occasionally harsh conditions.

Thanks for the comments.

barresa62 · November 2001

The two performance winter tires that I can postively recommend are the Bridgestone Blizzak LM22s and the Dunlop Wintersports. I've ordered the Dunlop Wintersports for my WRX wagon to be mounted on my stock rims. I can't wait to try them out. Safe to assume that they will be better in the wet/dry them the sucky stock RE92s.

Stephen

nschulman3 · November 2001

I, too, didn't like the aftermarket shift-knobs offered by subaru. I purchased a momo wood knob earlier this month and love it. Since it is about 1:30am, I am too tired too get the box right now, but I'll let you know which model it is tomorrow. If you go to keyword momo, you will find numerous websites that show pictures of all their available shifters. They are much better, IMO, than nardi, since the fit is much tighter. Mine cost only $65.00 and the delaer installed it free. It comes with a kit that is easily installed for most, but since they weren't charging me and i'm not too handy, i had the dealer put it in.By the way, believe me when i tell you that vredestein snow tires are the best on the market. They are unbelievable in the snow and good in the dry. The only problem is finding a dealer that carries them.

pattim3 · November 2001

I am sure - no cool down.

Have a good one!

Patti

pattim3 · November 2001

pkg. In going from an OB Limited to the WRX, I miss the heated mirrors a lot. I'm sharing the information and I hope something is offered for you all next year.

Patti

paisan · November 2001

Someone mentioned the 7500mile change interval on the BMW. That is what most cars have been for 10 years. Of course that is under light conditions. Under severe conditions it is suggested 3K miles. I would think the same would be true for the cool down period. If you drive like me you'd want to let it cool down after driving it, same reason I do 3K or less oil changes.

-mike

WarpDrive · November 2001

...among the best of the best. I've used Nokian Hakka 1's on my last car. Loved them. There are more focused toward snow than pavement and are long wearing. Many people who also tried them have not been disappointed.

If not, go for the Michelin Arctic Alpins. Also an excellent tire. I do not recommend the Pilot Alpins though. Snow grip is pretty mediocre.

hpulley4 · November 2001

Even the Impreza TS has heated mirrors in Canada. I think the Legacy Brighton is one of the few (only?) models without it up here. Strangely, it is optional on the Foresters.

Heated mirrors are nice up here, that's for sure.

dill6 · November 2001

any chance Subaru can come up with wiper/mirror heaters that can be retro-fit? That would make me a very happy camper.

xcskier: I'm in Salt Lake too, have had my WRX wagon 5spd for 2 weeks now. I've been getting around fine in the valley since the snow came with the OE tires, but if you're up in Summit Co. a lot I'll bet you'd find winter tires worth it. I know any edge I could get I'd take with all those big rigs up Parley's. I have no experience with Nokians but I know the Blizzaks are great, and my wife has the Michelin Arctic Alpins on her Prelude and they are also fantastic. The Arctic Alpins are rated especially good on ice and so may be the best bet, as with AWD snow traction is pretty easy to come by. I believe ice/hard-pack are the main concern, and these tires have a unique (as far as I know) design with about a million tiny little grooves (siping) that are particularly effective in those conditions.

I wouldn't run them in summer either - and you may want to consider a set of steel rims (blasphemy!) for the winters as mounting/dismounting tires twice a year is hard on them. IMHO the performance downgrade with the steel rims is pretty irrelevant in the winter, and they're a lot cheaper than alloys, of course.

re Shift knobs: my car came with the titanium knob, which I hated (uncomfortable shape and COLD in the morning) and also the carbon-fiber trim, which I wouldn't have ordered, but like now that I have it - so I just put a Momo carbon-fiber/black leather knob in my car. Looks cool, doesn't match the interior trim perfectly but its close enough, and its comfortable. I believe the model is "Shadow". And the titanium knob, anyway, does unscrew - just give it a real serious twist.

ramiller1 · November 2001

There is probably no more controversial subject around than the use of synthetic motor oils.

If you call Mobil at their 800 number, they will tell you straight out that you can change over to Mobil 1 as soon as you drive the car home from the lot. They would not make that claim if they didn't have some pretty hard evidence that the stuff is entirely safe for your car to use--i.e. lawsuit-proof evidence that would stand up in a court of law. Otherwise, they would have been litigated out of business by now. Almost all manufacturers today, including Subaru, make their engines to very close tolerances, far more so than in the past, so there is really no need for a 10,000 mile break-in.

If you call Subaru of America, they say it's perfectly fine to use, just wait 1000 miles for the rings to get a proper seal. I changed over to Mobil 1 at 640 miles on our WRX wagon, and have no problems whatsoever. The engine uses very little oil (1/4 qt.) between changes, so the rings have sealed properly, it idles smoothly, and runs like a top.

My personal feeling is Mobil 1 is sooo much better than conventional oils, the carmakers are a little afraid if everyone uses it, cars will stay on the road a lot longer and sales will suffer. Hence, all the false rumors about the supposed bad effects about what it does to your engine.

If you look on the Mobil web site, www.mobil.com, you can read about how they ran a BMW for over a million miles and when they broke the engine down, it passed new car specs! I can't vouch for every synthetic out there, but if Mobil 1 does that for a BMW, it will certainly help a WRX make it to the 250,000 mile mark, IMHO, (even with the way I drive ;-).

xcskier · November 2001

I like your theories on Mobil 1. What intervals do you think make sense? I've always used regular oil, and changed oil and filter religiously every 3K.

I've seen other opinions that say you can go 5K or even 10K with synthetics, and that these longer inervals offset the higher cost.

narenji · November 2001

Thank you very much. I still feel unsure about just shutting the engine off, so I wait a few secs, and less when I've been driving conservatively before parking the car. Hopefully its not a Subaru of America ploy to get you to come in after the warranty expires to get a new turbo. The no cool down method should probably let the turbo work fine for 60k miles, at which their powertrain warranty expires. Is the turbo even covered under the powertrain warranty? Its raining a lot here in LA today, and the car will be detailed by the dealer tomorrow (I took delivery on a rainy day), and in the evening I plan on going to Van Nuys for a meeting of WRX owners at a Krispy Kreme. Should be fun.

taos2 · November 2001

I just walked in the door after picking up my
SKIREX from Discount Tires where my Nokian
NRW tires were just installed. You might want
to research this model for your situation. I was advised this was a better choice for someone
highway driving in snow and slush. I plan on using their capabilities driving Albuquerque to Taos a couple of times per week and to Colorado
once a month. I haven't driven them yet but they
do look cool.
Good luck,
Taos

ramiller1 · November 2001

I change the Mobil 1 every 3000 mi. both oil and filter, but you're right, you can go a lot longer. If you do a lot of highway miles, every 6000 mi. is plenty good enough. When Mobil did their million mile test, they changed it every 7500 mi. and used 5W-30 year round.

Looking just now, it seems they revamped their website and didn't see the original article on this test, but they will send you info if you ask them. The number is 1-800-ASK-MOBIL.

savka · November 2001

How many of you, after realizing that the wagon is set up softer then the sedan, prceded to upgrade to bigger front/rear antisway bars, controll arms etc...

Just wondering if I should just order my wagon already with the stiff suspension factory kit installed

thanks

WarpDrive · November 2001

...so synthetic is highly recommended for a car like the WRX in general. If you also drive in extreme conditions (lots of short trips, or cold weather), synthetic is very beneficial. The superior durability of synthetic is a proven fact, so it's like buying a bit of insurance. BMW's officially recommends 12000 mi with their own cars with synthetic, so personally I'm very comfortable with 6000mi change intervals for my own cars. Objective tests such as the Mobil one seem to show, that these days, modern oils are capable of far more than 3000mi change intervals.

barresa62 · November 2001

I upgraded the rear sway bar on my wagon from the stock 17mm to the sedan's 20mm. After experiencing this setup I changed the front to a Whiteline 22mm. My suggestion is to get the WRX wagon w/the stock suspension setup and live w/it for awhile. It's actually cheaper to upgrade the swaybars and such aftermarket anyhow plus you get to feel the changes and decide at what point it all feels good to you. Just my .02 :-)

Stephen

savka · November 2001

Thanks man, I appreciate the good advice - reading these threads and the i-club ones I start getting nervous that this thing handleslike a freeking model T ford at the turn of the century (if you dont add this modd and that one...)- then I take a breath and try to remember its a WRX :-)

you are right: buy it - drive it - change it - decide

thanks

barresa62 · November 2001

Get us update once you get your WRX wagon...impressions and such. BTW, the stock setup is quite good but I personally like a little less body roll. It still blows a lot of cars away w/its stock handling in the real world of public roads and such. :-)

Stephen

karl1973 · November 2001

Well, after drooling over the WRX for so long, I finally picked mine up last night. It is a WR blue wagon.
Still trying to break it in (not break it!!!) and one of my first impressions is the shifter stinks!! Compared to my Miata, stirring the gears is like poking a stick in a mud pool and trying to stir it. I guess I am spoiled by my Miata.
Now, if I can control myself and not go crazy on the gas pedal.... I am still catching myself giggling while I am driving it, just like the first day I picked up my Miata!!!!

allythom · November 2001

Learning to drive stick: If you haven't already done so, get the basics (moving off, hill starts etc) down pat in an empty car park or similar -nothing more embarassing than kangarooing down the high street. This is what my dad did when taught me 15 yrs ago . Just as well, I left 7foot long black lines on the tarmac on my first attempt at moving off. Since then my mechanical sympathy has improved a little, dad on the other hand has never quite recovered.

I may be mistaken, but I think the Turbo Foresters come without the hill-holder clutch in Euroland, I'd guess it to be the same when they're launched over here .

ramiller1 · November 2001

You've just got yourself one of the sweetest rides around! And if you ever need to get a full load of groceries home in record time, there is nothing better

twrx · November 2001

Karl, go for the short throw. Got one on my wr blue 5 speed wagon. Nice shifts. But i did not think the stock one was bad at least in comparison to the one in my 98 Forester. I used to own Hondas and in comparison I think the WRX is quite good. Clutch is much better than Forester too.

TWRX

dill6 · November 2001

What did you pay for the short shifter? Install yourself, or the dealer? Does it change the feel or just the length of the throw?

IMO the stock shifter is a little balky but not vague or imprecise. Quite honestly it doesn't measure up to my old Integra's, but its not bad either.

twrx · November 2001

Bill, I have the STI. Many say to get the Kart Boy because it is cheaper (less than $100 as opposed to over $200 for the STI) I went with the STI because i am so non mechanical that I did not want to instal it. I got that in my deal that I made on the car that they would instal it for free. It is not a great difference. As advertised by its name it makes the throw shorter. Seems to take more effort to push the lever. Action of the lever does not seem more or less precise than the stock one. Before the WRX I had a '98 Forester and a '94 Delsol. Again as I said in the previous post my yardstick is the Delsol which was super when it came to shifts. After the Honda was wrecked I was stuck with the rather long lever on the Forester plus the cold weather grinding 1-2 shifts (known Forester problem on early ones) so I'm in heaven again with the WRX. It seems as good as my Delsol was. (Had an '87 Integra too!) My only problem with balky is when the engine is off the reverse can be difficult to engage.

TWRX

wrx_al · November 2001

is not the "magical" lubricant that some consumers make it out to be. Synthetic flows better when cold and resists high temperature breakdown better than regular oil. So in these temperature extremes it is a superior lubricant to standard oil. Actually some of the synthetic brands use non-synthetic oil as a base and modify its molecular structure. Mobil 1 is a true synthetic however. I changed to Mobil 1 at the 3000 mile oil change and plan to use the factory recommended oil change intervals in my WRX.($22 for six quarts at COSTCO)

hunter001 · November 2001

I intend to switch to synthetic (in my WRX) after about 10,000 miles or so. And then I intend to follow my current schedule of an oil change every 3000 miles.

I did the same with my 2000 Acura 3.2TL, which has been absolutely perfect till date, and is an amazingly smooth operative !

Later...AH

paisan · December 2001

What grade/brand do you use in the TL? My uncle has a 2002 TLS and wants to put synthetic but he wasn't sure which grade was available to put in it? Thanks.

-mike

ramiller1 · December 2001

Another way you really get your money's worth with a synthetic--it makes all those daily cold starts a little easier than does the conventional. It's just slicker and flows more easily, so it gets to all the moving parts faster when you start up, hence a lot less engine wear over the long haul. (It's also more resistant to coking if you have a hot-running turbo.)

Most race car teams use it-- if anyone has an interest in having the best motor oil, it's those guys.

Regarding the break-in issues, there is a re-print from Motor Magazine on the www.Mobil1.com website. Look under "What Auto Experts Say" then under "Mobil 1 In The News". Apparently, there is a special ester added to the synthetic to help the rings seal, so that's why they say you can use it from day one.

It's easy to understand people wanting to be cautious putting it in, especially with a brand-new car. But I think the more you use it, the more you begin to trust that it really is great stuff, especially if you have a car that you plan to keep a long time.

hunter001 · December 2001

I use Mobil1 (5w30??)in my TL, currently (most recent 6000 miles = 2 oil changes). My earlier dealer used "Quaker State" synthetic, which I believe is not a true synthetic, even though they call it synthetic. The engine runs super-smooth and maybe it is my imagination, but I feel the mileage has also improved, after switching to synthetic ! Of course, pumping your tires upto 35psi all around (as I do with mine), helps. Now I am about to hit 20,000 absolutely hard driven (but well maintained) miles and the car has been flawless till date. On the highway, it nets me about 32-36mpg, which is absolutely amazing, when considering that it is a larger car with a relatively large V6 engine. About 4 of us, with associated light luggage, made a >2500 mile trip in my TL, a while back. The overall mileage was 32mpg, for the entire trip. This was at speeds ranging from 60-100mph and with Automatic climate control on, the whole time.

On a different trip, I drove at a steady 70mph during the entire trip and the mileage was at 36.5mpg. Of course it was a strain on me to resist the urge to step on the gas, since I wanted to see how much mileage it would fetch. With a mix of 40%city/60% highway mix, the car generally returns about 22-24mpg.

The EPA figures are at 19/29 for the TL/TL-s.

I believe the owner's manual recommends 5w20 or so for the TL-s. You may need to check it out.

Later...AH

paisan · December 2001

Yeah the TLS uses 5-20, he'll probably switch over soon on it. He loves the car, although not as much as the ferraris he used to race in the 50s in Sicily. Thanks for the info

-mike

jmess · December 2001

Consumer reports did a test with NewYork city taxicabs a few years back comparing synthetic and dino oil. They measured clearances on engines before and after a 6 months in service. They found no measurable difference in wear between synthetic and dino and no difference between brands of either. If dumping in synthetic oil would increase gas mileage most of the major auto mfgs would do it because it would lower their average corporate MPG rate and reduce the amout of taxes/penalties they have to pay for cars that exceed the Federal MPG average; this is big bucks and any additional cost for using synthetic oil would be background noise. I assume the WRX has an oil cooler which reduces oil temp along with the radiator that cools the engine. As long as these are functioning properly then high oil temp isn't an issue so none of the benifits of synthetic handling higher tempatures comes into play. For extreme cold in the near zero or below range synthetic is an option but 5-30 dino oil is almost as good. For real racing where you stress the vehicle synthetic is good; you may be stressing the cooling system . For the average street racer dino oil is far cheaper and will make your car last just as long. So use synthetic if it makes you feel good but don't expect anything magical to happen when you dump it in your engine.

hunter001 · December 2001

Ferraris, huh? Wow. Of course, the TL-s would not be nearly as fun !

Later...AH

ramiller1 · December 2001

The CR test was well-intended, but the problem was, IMO, they didn't conduct the test for a long enough duration. Six months just isn't long enough to separate the difference in performance between the two types of oil. I think you would need to take the test out to 250-300,000 mi. before you really start to see that the synthetic prevents wear much better.

Also, CR did the test like a strict laboratory experiment, changing religiously at the specified intervals. You and I both know that's not the way the real world works. I once new a lady who hadn't changed her oil for 28,000 mi.! And a lot of people out there don't get around to changing it until months after they're supposed to. By then, the wax and other natural contaminants found in dino are really starting to sludge up the engine and create performance-robbing depostits. If they are using a synthetic, that wouldn't be nearly as much a problem, because it doesn't have any wax or other contaminants.

If you're leasing your car and plan to turn it in after 2-3 years or if you are driving an old car that leaks oil, then OK, don't bother with a synthetic. But if you plan to own your car and especially if you have a high-performance car like the turbo-WRX, you are crazy not to put it in! Just MHO. Sorry, but it's simply the finest protection you can buy, bar-none. And you'll get the extra cost back in the long haul, because your engine will go a lot further between overhauls.

I'd be happy to report back just how long my WRX engine lasts with the Mobil 1--if you guys are willing to hang around for 15-20 years

ericinde · December 2001

I picked up a new silver WRX wagon on Monday a week ago... after the drive home from work on Friday, I smelled a little oil. Checked the oil... down a quart and a half. Leaking like a sieve between the block and oil cooler adapter.

Dealer says it's a bad gasket, but I didn't get to talk to the mechanic to find out more about which gasket it was. Likely story? Anything I should check when it comes back?

Total mileage at pickup 79
Total mileage at return to dealer 201

Disappointed in Delaware -
-Eric

ramiller1 · December 2001

to use Mobil 1 rather than regular oil. Four oil changes a year with the synthetic at $4.50 a qt. comes to $90. For the conventional at $1.20/qt. runs $24, a difference of $66 or $5.50 a month.
To me, that's not much to have the best engine protection for a $25-grand WRX investment.

OK, that's my last comment, I'm going to stop beating the horse on this topic.

To get a new thread going, does anyone know how many extra horsepower you can get by installing the Prodrive muffler on the WRX? Do you get any better gas mileage, and are there any drawbacks to doing this--passing emissions, etc.?

Subaru Impreza WRX Wagon

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