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Comments
Well, after much haggling, I finally got a quote from a dealer here in Texas and would really like your opinion on it. Here are the details for the unit...
2009 Elantra GLS
-automatic transmission
-A/C with Popular Equipment Package
-Sun Roof
-Carpeted Floor Mats
-Mud Guards
...for a quoted price of $14,250 plus TT&L. I don't have a lot of money to spend on a vehicle right now, so I'm trying to get the best deal I possibly can. If this is indeed a good deal and my initial research would lead me to believe it is, the only thing from keeping me from pulling the trigger are the safety features/upgrades on a SE. Unfortunately, I have not been able to negotiate a good price for a SE, as all the local dealers want over $15,000 for a standard one.
Anyway, so what do you all think. Is this a fair deal or should I wait for the 2010 Elantras to arrive so I can negotiate a better deal on a 09 Elantra at that time. Thanks in advance for any help you can provide me with.
-Robert
Provided that the price quoted (a) isn't including a cash for clunkers (or CARS) discount, and provided that (b) the TTL fee's from the dealer are just that, as per your state's DMV (and not some inflated dealer mark-up BS), I would say it's a very good deal. Of course, pricing can vary by region -- how does it stack up against the Edmund's TMV?
As far as waiting to negotiate an even better price: Are you wanting to take advantage of the CARS program? If you wait, there is always the risk that it won't be around later. If however you aren't wanting to take advantage of it, I suspect that once the well dry's up (a few months thereafter), there will be some good deals to be had... Not as good as the government giving an additional $4,500 off, but still better than what the manufacturer/dealer is currently giving.
To be honest, it doesn't make much sense to me. With the increase in demand from cash for clunkers (even though you're not participating), it's become more difficult to get good prices. Many people are having to fight to get Elantras for even a few hundred below invoice. Yet the price you're talking about would have been considered excellent even several months ago when demand was at its lowest.
Something else that doesn't make sense is that you're being quoted $750 more for a standard SE. A standard SE equipped with mudguards and floor mats like your GLS has an MSRP of $18,720 and an invoice of $17,954. These numbers are right in line with the GLS with sunroof you mentioned so the dealer should be willing to part with it for a similar price.
As to your question about waiting for the 2010 Elantras to come out to try and get an even better price on the 09.... I'm not sure what to tell you. Conventional wisdom is that prices on the previous year's models do drop as they try and close them out. However, with inventory levels being lower it means that sometimes you're not able to get the car with the options and color combination you might prefer. And frankly, given how outstanding the current price you're being offered is, I'm not really sure just how much you might save by waiting. Perhaps someone else might have a better notion of the maximum amount it might be possible to save on an 09 by waiting for the 2010s to come out.
As for the GLS I'm dealing on, Edmunds is showing me a TMV of $16,323 for this particular vehicle so the offer seems pretty reasonable. Here's my dillema though...
I do hope to take advantage of the CARS program (price quoted does NOT include the 4500 would-be discount), but I also hope to take advantage of the price break I would receive when the new 2010 Elantras start arriving. From what I've read, I believe they should be on lots in about a month or so. Thing is I'm not sure if the CARS program will still be in effect at that time or if hyundai will be offering the $2,000 rebate as well.
So when do you think is the best time to deal? Jump in now or wait one more month for a better discount? I'm hesitant to pull the trigger on the offer I have now because I keep thinking that the 2010 arrival will help me get a 2009 SE in my price range. And I'm the type of person who keeps a car for 5-10 years, so I'm just really trying to think things through and make the best decision I possibly can.
Thanks in advance for any and all input you all can provide!
Edit: Thanks for the input, Joe! Allow me to clarify - after a lot of haggling on my end, getting a standard SE would cost be between $14,998 and $15,977. Since I can't seem to find a good deal on a SE (all throughout Texas at least), I'm starting to really think if I should just forgo all of the SE extras and get a loaded GLS for $14,250 (before Cars rebate, before t/t/l). By the way, prices definitely seemed to be a lot better before the CARS program went into effect. Anyway, thanks for your advice and any pointers that can help me making the right deal!
...if it's a $50-$100 clunker you're tradin' in, that's a mighty fine chunk ah change you're leaving on the table. OTOH, if your clunker is worth considerably more, changes the picture a bit but I'm still leaning towards pulling the trigger. Afterall, as previously noted, if the #'s you've listed hold true at paper signing time in the backroom, yours IS a good deal. Enjoy your new car.
This makes perfect sense. SEs tend to be much more rare than the GLS, and they are quite popular because they have ESC, better handling, nicer-looking wheels, features not available on the GLS like telescopic steering column and trip computer, plus the SE is CR's top choice in compacts. So dealers must think they can charge more for them. Supply and demand rules again.
One last thing I'd very much like your opinion on though are the differences between the GLS and SE? I have went over the breakdown on what is and isn't included, but am more interested in hearing your feedback on whether or not the differences should have a huge bearing on my decision? For my preferred SE, I'm looking at a difference of about $2,500 (it's a SE with a sunroof as well). For a car I will keep for at least the next 5-7 years, what would you go with?
2009 Elantra GLS
-popular equipment package with sunroof
$14,250 (before cars and t/t/l)
2009 Elantra SE
-popular equipment package
$14,998 (before cars and t/t/l)
2009 Elantra SE
-popular equipment package with sunroof
$16,715 (before cars and t/t/l)
I was originally expecting to spend around 10-11k after CARS, but these are the best options I have so far. Thanks again for all your input - you have no idea how comforting it is to get advice from you instead of trusting what the salesman consider a "good deal" to be.
Personally, I don't see much point to the GLS. If you're going to give up traction and stability control, why not get an Accent, save money, and get better fuel economy? And if you WANT traction and stability, why not look at the base Kia Forte that just came out? No A/C, crank windows, but it has traction and stability control.
Of course, there's a ton of GLS models out there, and few SEs or Tourings for these very reasons. So dealers should be prepared to get REAL cheap on the GLS just to get rid of them. Se...not so much. They know people want them. WHich they do. For good reason. Look what you're getting for $2500. If you dump the sunroof, look what you're getting for that and $750. Persoanlly I hardly ever used the sunroof on my old car...it was there mostly to generate wind noise and cut my headroom. Oh, and because they wouldn't put ABS on the thing unless it already had a sunroof. :shades:
Bottom line: If you're going to keep a car for 5-7 years, get the one you like the most. There's no sense punishing yourself for those years with "why did I give up?" It's worth it to prevent a case of buyer's remorse...which can lead to early, upside-down trade ins. :shades:
If you don't want ESC, why get an Elantra over an Accent? The Elantra is roomier, offered 4-wheel anti-lock disc brakes, and at least with what I was looking at, only marginally more expensive than the Accent.
At the end of the day, you could use the logic "Why not get xxx" to go from a base Accent to a top of the line BMW... It ultimately comes down to price [what you want and can afford to pay] / features [what features you need/want].
While I'm sure the ESC, better suspension(?), etc., on the SE is worth the $$$, I hardly believe it qualifies as a reason to go with the Accent if you don't spring for it. Maybe for you (and others), but not for everyone (myself included).
As another poster stated, the CARS incentive isn't going to last forever. But, depending on what you are wanting to trade-in (it's value), along with whether you believe it will last long-enough, it's ultimately all a gamble.
I traded in a '95 Nissan Pathfinder w/ ~ 225k miles on it. It had some issues, but nothing that affected it's driveability. With that said, it would have been a huge, HUGE bummer to have had it *die* before I could have traded it in. It would equally have been a HUGE bummer had the CARS program stopped before I had the opportunity.
So the above, combined with your risk tolerance should guide you.
The question to ask yourself is this: How much do you truly think the '09 prices will go down when the '10's roll-out, and is that savings worth it? Again, this is assumin g that:
a) CARS program is still running
b) Dealers haven't cleared-out their '09 inventory due to the success of the CARS program
c) Dealer is still willing to offer you the aforementioned deal (and make it even sweeter)
d) Hyundai is still running their current rebate (if not a better rebate)
e) Your vehicle is still in CARS-ready condition
Let's say we had a crystal ball and knew you could shave $500 off. Would shaving that $500 off be worth the risk to you? What about $400? $300? Of course, we don't know how much it would be -- it could be less, it could be more... It could even go up in price... The dealer could no longer make their offer and/or not even have stock to if they wanted.)
Personally, I can't imagine it will be shaved that much lower (if at all). At the same time, as others have noted, it represents a significantly lower price point on a very popular selling vehicle... Why the dealer is offering this is beyond me (and smells a bit fishy...)
I've sat in both, the roominess in the front seat is about equal. Now, if you need back seat room that's a different story.
The Accent SE offers optional ABS.
It ultimately comes down to price [what you want and can afford to pay] / features [what features you need/want].
I believe I mentioned something about "get the one you like" to avoid buyer's remorse. Everyone's opinion on that is different. What I offered was my opinion. I still don't think it's worth it to drop to the GLS unless it's significantly below the price of an Accent SE. Others might differ...but I'm thinking not very many, given the fact that so many dealers have so many GLS models still sitting on their lots.
2009 Elantra SE
-popular equipment package
$14,998 (before cars and t/t/l)
2009 Elantra SE
-popular equipment package with sunroof
$16,715 (before cars and t/t/l)
2009 Elantra SE
-popular equipment package with sunroof, leather interior
$17,900 (before cars and t/t/l)
To be honest, I'm not too happy with these prices and that's why it's going to force me to play the waiting game. As you all have mentioned, it's a big risk because CARS could go out at any moment and Hyundai might not offer a strong rebate next month. All I know is that I don't want to feel hosed over a deal and live with buyer's remorse. Besides, since I plan to keep this vehicle for 5-10 years, I want to make sure I get one that is fully equipped and can be a smooth ride for years to come. So the waiting game begins...please let the board know when you get wind of the 2010 models showing up.
P.S.: I am still hoping to spend about 14-15k on a standard SE and between 15-17 on a loaded one.
So I am unclear as to what options are included for each of the prices you listed.
You might try going into the dealers that have an SE you want and tell them "I will buy it RIGHT NOW for $X." Money talks, especially as month-end nears. Then be prepared to buy a car, in case they say "OK".
Also, decide if you really need a sunroof or leather. Those will increase your costs quite a bit on this car. If you can stick to the base SE, which is quite well equipped but no sunroof or leather, you are already in your stated price range of $14-15k.
And, yes, I think that's going to be my big gamble. If CARS is still in effect at the end of the month, I'll visit the dealership that last weekend and make one last offer on a SE. That's the only way I see myself getting a fair deal. What do you think a good offer would be at that point? I think I'm going to stick to my guns and go for the following vehicle...
2009 Elantra SE
-auto transmission
-premium package with sunroof, heated seats, leather interior, etc.
MSRP: About $20,000
e-price: 18,120
Haggled Price: $17,900 ("car is in high demand and we can't give it away"-dealer)
Right now, I'm thinking 16,500 and going overbudget on a car I will hopefully get a lot of use out of for the next 5-10 years. too high, too low, just right? Thanks again for all your help, everyone. I'll be sure to keep you posted on how things go or feel free to say "I told you so" if CARS runs out before I attempt my purchase.
And for those of you who may be wondering, I'm still planning on making a trip to the dealership next weekend to see if they may budge on the price right when the month is about to end. If the vehicle and CARS is still in effect by then, I hope to get a fair deal on the 2009 Elantra SE with premier package 5 (sunroof, heated seats, leather interior, etc.). Not very happy with the $17,900 asking price (For a MSRP of $20,000 while a $2,000 rebate is in effect), so I am hoping they will come down to $16,500 or possibly less. The salesman said just the other day that "these Elantras are in high demand so we aren't going to discount them anymore." I hope they change their tune if it's still there at the end of the month. If it's so hot, I wonder why they still have so many on the lot still...
To be honest, the best offers I have received are from smaller dealerships who don't have much inventory at all. I figure the elephant would've offered the best deal, but we'll see how timing and REAL supply/demand factor into my purchase.
It will be interesting to see if Mr. Big Dealer sings a different song around about Aug. 28 or so, which is good timing I think. May not be good to wait for the last day of the month--if the dealer has made its sales targets by then, or has no hope of doing so, they may not be especially incented to make a great deal.
I'm planning on heading up on the 28th or 29th to try and close a deal. Does anyone have any more pointers they could share to help me in my negotiations? For example, lets say that by the end of the month, they still have 8-9 SEs on the lot. I'm thinking that will put me in a stronger position, but then again, I don't know how cocky these guys are if they really moved a lot of cars thanks to Cash for Clunkers early this month. If that's the case, I imagine they could possibly hold out and try to sell the car barely below MSRP. If that's the case, I may be forced to walk but I definitely gotta try though.
And I gotta admit I'm still sketchy on whether or not I should offer 16,500 for a vehicle that is scheduled to have the following years model come out in a few weeks. If they try to get me to pay MSRP for a 09, might as well wait and get a 2010 for the same, right? That's why I'm just really hoping that they'll give me a deal on a loaded 09 next week. But now I'm wondering if I should offer less, more, or if that's a fair amount. I just don't want to get hosed and regret my decision...
http://www.cars.gov/
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32490342/ns/business-autos/
I live in DFW and the tax rate is .0625 and doc fee was $50. License and other stuff was was something like $275. I think my total closing costs were only $850. The $4500 in Texas is not taxable so that helped a lot. In addition, I'll be able to get 20% of the taxes back from the IRS.
$17,900 for a 2009 Elantra SE with sunroof/leather interior? Even if I take advantage of Cash for Clunkers, just seems like I would be overpaying. Decisions, decisions...
So, as of now, I'm probably just going to sit it out and see if there are any good deals towards the end of the year. I think once auto sales see a big drop in September, the auto industry will have to rally and offer some really good incentives to move more cars towards the end of the year.
If anyone takes advantage of C4C this weekend and has any positive reports to share, please let everyone know. Given the conditions, smart money says dealers won't budge, but maybe you can prove us wrong. I'd imagine once C4C is down with, prices will go back down and people will start hearing of deals that will resemble the pre-C4C era.
PS If ya buy this weekend (7th Cav. types...repeat - Lil' Big Horn happening as I write), why the heck didn't ya buy last month at the same time? Waaaaay different atmosphere end of July...BEFORE the tidal wave of buyers knocked down the dealer's doors and broke all the computers trying to get on the government websites for voucher submission. All JMHO of course.
If the economy continues to be flat or worse, I could see another round next year or something, particularly to buy some votes. It'd be even better next year, since Chevy might have the Cruze and Ford should have the Fiesta, both of which should give Hyundai a run for their money (I like Hyundai but I like competition more).
Besides which, as mentioned, this weekend is a rotten time to buy...it's the do-or-die date for the current CARS, and it's also not the end of the month, when dealers need to meet quotas. There's better times coming up...the 2010s should come out within the next couple of months, which will drive prices on the 09s way down and bring serious rebates. After that one might have another CARS program. Which tells me it's wise to wait for the next opportunity if possible.
What backlash? I haven't seen much backlash...
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------- -----------------------------------
I sure hope we don't see this program again. I've been told that the cash for clunkers program is downright evil. The America I know and love is not one in which my car will have to stand in front of Obama’s “death panel” so his bureaucrats can decide, based on a subjective judgment of their MPG rating whether they are worthy of $3,500 or $4,500 in rebates.
Ok, ok.. sorry about that. I just couldn't resist.
F'd up program
Many models this time of year have sold for 3000-$8000+ off msrp for numerous closeout years. (Mazda3, Elantra, Sonata, Impala etc)
Many idiots are paying more for many models than they have sold for the previous 3 summers.
After the dealers have replaced their usual discounts from msrp and unadvertised incentives with the $4000 govt cash, and the fact that many "clunkers" may have brought $2000 or more in trade, most customers are behind on the deal, or at best a wash. Most of the dough if not all went to the dealer/nameplate.
If ya actually got a $10000 deal for a $17500 elantra, and $4000 for your $250 clunker more power to you.You're the valedictorian of the buyers.
Many dealers have stated that they will **continue** the C4C program on their own on certain models for a significant period! Unbelieveable! (Gosh grandma, how will dealers discount cars $3000-$8000 off list that have usually sold for a $3000-$8000 discount in august the last 4 years?)
My favorites are the Honda civic/other forums when C4C is mentioned MSRP+$1000 protection package is the automatic minimum starting point. (The civic usually sells for $3000 off list in july) Can't blame them, with a shortage of popular/qualifying metal why do anything else?
Some of these people probably haven't bought a new car since the Reagan administration.
Good luck
--jjf
However, $8,005 off of MSRP IS what I got with C4C included. I'm happy as can be as I couldn't have gotten even $1500 for my clunker otherwise. ('02 Trooper with bad tranny, and 4WD that wouldn't engage)
Let's assume that I COULD have gotten $1,500, plus the $2K rebate, PLUS $2K discount after haggling - that still only adds up to a $5,500 discount, or basically a $2500 loss for me comparatively...
But to:
a) Get *the* vehicle you want
b) At that kind of discount
c) Without having to sell your vehicle on your own (which may/may not be a significant burden)
There is no comparison...
Perhaps jfritsch believes the dealers when they say they'll take the low-ball offer to their manager and might be able to do something with it....
It's great if you got the Elantra for the usual 3k off -$4000 or so for the govt rebate, but many folks on other models aren't. By the time one assumes many could have easily got $1800 or more for their clunker in trade, it is a worse deal than they could have worked a month ago, with the std incentives.
In no way is it helping people into new cars who otherwise wouldn't be able to afford one. Many are paying the same as they would have without C4C, if not more.
Hee Hee, all this fuss over a teeny tiny 3 BILLION cobbled together program of no use. A pisstake. You need to talk TRILLION since last Sept to get anyones attention. And Federal deficits of a Trillion a year as far as the eye can see...
But wait... MORE spending on health entitlements for our congressional heroes to "Save" money.
I suggest you all get a large vehicle for your c4c deal. You may find yourself living in it in the coming years.
Good luck
--jjf
09elantraowner: I absolutely agree... For folks who were buying > $20K vehicles, it might be a different story.... And there's always the *REMOTE* possibility that the dealer *MIGHT* sell a loss-leader at a heavily discounted price nearing that...
But to:
a) Get *the* vehicle you want
b) At that kind of discount
c) Without having to sell your vehicle on your own (which may/may not be a significant burden)
There is no comparison...
Perhaps jfritsch believes the dealers when they say they'll take the low-ball offer to their manager and might be able to do something with it
Did the manufacturers take advantage of the equivalent of a Gov't subsidy in maintaining a profit margin they might otherwise lose? Quite possibly, particularly those NOT offering EOY drastic discounts as they normally would, but that wasn't the case with Hyundai (generally). However, I would say that both the manufacturers, AND the Hyundai buyers (at the very least) both took advantage of the subsidy and benefitted well...