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better to buy where you intend to get it serviced?
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Sorry about your service troubles. As somebody in the sales dept. it is unbelievably frustrating to hear about losing a sale because of service problems. (And I'm sure the service guys feel the same way about sales )
Anyway, just FYI, to become an SVT franchise costs the dealership an additional franchise fee plus they must meet both certain CSI standards and certain sales volumes to qualify. I'm pretty sure that if a certain number of SVT franchises exist in a given area that no more are awarded.
I probably won't step into a Ford store simply because they don't sell anything I want to buy. It's that simple. They cancelled my car which does horrific things to an already bad resale value. SVT is a joke, you look at the performance parts sold by FMS (or whatever it is called now) and you can't find a damn thing for the Contour.
I would truly like to buy an American built car. But I want a European inspired sports sedan. They don't build them here anymore! The Focus doesn't cut it either. Only a 4cyl and the SVT focus will be a two door hatch.
Combine that with my service experiences and you understand why Ford doesn't get a serious look when I consider cars.
I'm a car guy, not an accountant. So it pains me to see yet another SUV (The Escape) being built in the plant that produced such a good car.
I blame Ford because they marketed the Contour all wrong. Ford was trying to make the Taurus the number one selling sedan, so they would offer incentives that moved buyers away from the Contour. Then they wonder why sales are lackluster.
I don't recall EVER seeing a Contour ad on television, an in any publications other than some early ads in car rags. Yet I couldn't Escape (pardon the pun) from the Explorer, Expedition, and Excursion ads.
You can't say it wasn't because it was a bad car. Sure it suffered from limited back seat room, but in my case, there was plenty of room for the kids. If it was such a bad platform, why does the Mondeo thrive in Europe and the new "Baby" Jag use many of the features engineered for the Contour/Mystique/Mondeo line?
Then came the cost cutting, (decontenting) Things like the clock, remote fuel release, lesser quality interior features, etc. I really liked the interior of my 96GL model much more than the 98 SVT I drive now. Of course the engine and brake on the SVT are much better. However, from a handling point of view the 95-97 SE models were the best performers on the skid pad. I have seriously considered retrofitting the springs and struts from the early model to my SVT.
But the car business is overrun with bean counters and the car enthusiasts are typically out voted when it comes time to make decisions.
Probably the same in almost every business. Yet BMW seems get by satisfying the enthusiast and the shareholder.
Guess I'll just have to pony up for a 3er next time around.
TB
Rich
We've heard from many that new car sales was a break even proposition at best, and when examined by itself is usually a money losing proposition.
If that is true, why would a dealer refuse to do service on a same brand car sold somewhere else? If there really is no profit in the sale of new cars then why should service care where the car was sold?
Now I do agree that the customer who has all of his service performed at a dealer will get preferential treatment in case something such as an After Warranty Adjustment is needed.
Heck, I would think a dealer would gladly allow another dealer to lose the money on the new car sale and gladly service that car sold elsewhere.
Wouldn't this be the best of all worlds for new car dealers?
TB
The only reason I can think of for turning down service business is if the service dept. is already fully utilized. I've never seen that, but I guess if getting an appointment means an original customer gets bumped then I guess it would make sense.
I do know the spring rates are stiffer in the 95-97 SE's and many are lighter than the SVTs. The SVTs out of the box probably have better handling, but only due to the wheels and tires. But put the same tires on an older SE and look out.
The numbers are at Contour.org, FWIW.
Oh, for topic related information, I wonder if my local Ford store will put the older springs and struts on my SVT???
TB
This was only for warranty work. You'd better believe, that especially in hot, humid, South Texas, when a guy rolled up in his 4 year old Chevy truck with a dead a/c compressor, they'd treat him like gold!
My dealer friend's point was, why should we lose the sale for $50, only to get a whiner with laundry list of imaginary warranty complaints that will tie up the technicians, keeping them from doing the a/c compressor jobs on older Chevy trucks? The person that would haul butt to Houston and spend all day to save $10-50 is the same person that will never the service department a moments rest, then bad-mouth the dealer, all its people and would never spend money at a dealer for an a/c job anyway!
The warranty says you can take your Chevy to any Chevy dealer and that's true - but if the dealer doesn't want to work on you car, or as in most cases, someone goes ballistic in the service drive and is asked to leave - Chevy can't make the dealer work on your car.
% sold.
You must know there are two distinct types of service customers -
(1) the one that has all their maintenance done at the dealer, along with any needed warranty repairs, and that sticks with the dealer after the warranty is gone and has the dealer work on the car at 80,000 miles.
Dealers certainly can not get enough of those folks since they comprise only about 2% of a dealers service customer base.
(2) The person who does not allow the dealer to do any form of non-warranty work like maintenance, bought the car 6 towns over at ABC Motors because it was $5.50 cheaper and comes in weekly with a list of warranty repairs three pages long, and is ready to "tear up" the dealer when the CSI questionaire comes out.
The dealer has plenty of those, doesn't need any more.
If I had a dealership, I may not be as aggressive as my acquantence in Texas, but I would surely evaluate each customer to determine the threat they pose to my service CSI rating - that very rating that determines my future vehicle allocations - that's just good business in a small town.
My theory is that people are fed up with the dealer service department experience. What I mean is taking your vehicle back 3 to 4 times to get a problem fixed and techs who do not truly diagnose but throw parts at a problem hoping that one of them will work.
I have had bad service experiences with VW, Chevy and Oldsmobile. The only good experience I've had is with Saturn.
My Dad's attitude regarding servicing cars when I was a kid was, "Gotta take it to the dealer to make sure it's fixed right". And back then he was right. For my first 3 or 4 cars, that's what I did. Its' just my opinion but I don't feel this is the case any longer.
Things have really changed since then.
I take my cars to the dealer for all warranty work, and any free scheduled services, and to my indie for other work, with whom I've established a relationship over the years. If I took my car back to the dealer for warranty work, and they refused me because I didn't buy it there, I think I would be somewhat upset. Especially now, when there are so many less dealers around. There are 3 VW dealers within 25 miles of my house (5, 15 and 20 miles away), and I live in the Boston metro area!
The best answer is, no matter where you go, read your owner's manual for suggestions, compare that with your driving style and mileage, choose accordingly and tell the service department or shop what YOU want done.
I've had people refuse the recommended installation of an air filter or fuel filter just for the sake of refusal. (I'll show him - I won't get it done!) It's your car, buddy, do what you want.
Please don't neglect your vehicle just because a service guy had the nerve to try to sell you something!
8^D
Heck, I can even ready my own OBD-II codes if that is necessary.
If I could visit my local Ford store with a an expectation that 9 times out of 10 a service would be complete correctly in one visit, I might do so.
However, I too have an excellent independent mechanic that does excellent work. You do need an appointment. But the work is always complete when promised. I'm not upsold services that are not necessary. They actually talked me out of some service I wanted done because they didn't feel it was necessary at that time.
They tell you when something is recommended but optional.
And did I mention that they have always gotten it right the first time.
Contrast that with my local Ford store that in five visits for recall work, four of them required the job to be performed a second time to re-do or correct what they did the first time.
And you think I want to spend any money with them? At least when I order parts from them, I get what I want.
This family owns a good number of dealerships in St. Clair county, so it seems I'll need to locate other dealerships that offer good service.
Anectodally(sp?) I hear the "certified" dealers really aren't that much better.
I wish the manufacturers put the CSI information on their websites so when you choose a dealer you can look at the scores.
And do those service surveys over the phone or on the web so don't have customers selling a good score for an oil change.
FWIW,
TB
Every dealer issued maintenance sheet I have seen has said you need this because of where you live. Is there anywhere in the country that can live with the manufacturer's schedule? According to dealer's probably not. Go by the owner's manual only, never use the dealer's schedule, you are wasting money. Your warranty is based on the owner's manual not the dealer's recommendations.
Ryan
That's actually a deal.
Bill
Bill
Just like the beetle, and the PT cruiser. Prices will come down, and those who paid the invoice+$10k will have to face the same market as those who wait. Hope their satisfaction at having an early build compensates for their loss!
Now, they know they are paying $10k over sticker and can't complain when the car is selling at or below MSRP in 6 months.
Yeah, the dealer gets the extra money instead of Ford, but they don't create a bunch of irate customers. (Or maybe the dealers have to send some of the extra dough back to Ford? Maybe that's in the fine print.) Anybody willing to pay that much over sticker knows they are paying a premium and will bear the risk of the price going down.
The 90-day delivery is a joke, though. I don't think you would actually pay on it for 90 days when you didn't have possession, though. I think the sale won't actually happen until possession begins.
You could itemize it right on the invoice -
Early Bird Surcharge - $10,000.
I know sometime it is hard to find a great sales department and service department all in the same dealership. We just need to press our luck.
But contrast that to paying an identical MSRP price that then drops by $10,000 6 months later. The buyer paid the same amount, but I think he would then rightly feel cheated by Ford.
Anyway, why would you rather send your EB premium to Ford in Detroit than to your local home-town dealer? I would certainly expect EXCEPTIONAL service if I paid $10,000 over MSRP - free pick up and delivery for service, free detailing, free loaner, etc.
You expect great service, but instead this dealer wants you to wait 90 days for your car. That free loaner is going to come in handy right away.
Over a good many years, I've gone to a number of recommended independents for work on cars that I did not buy new. I've had mixed results, some very good. Most recently, though, a very highly-regarded shop who had for years done things right for a good friend (and, briefly, for me) all of a sudden had a problem with my Accord's driver's side window. They replaced the regulator (visit #1), then the glass(!) (#2), then did some lubing (#3) and told me the stripping might have to be replaced (which I figure would have been the better first choice). They cut me a little slack on the price, but I was disappointed in the shop; still, I did not want to express my displeasure, and have to go looking for a new shop for future work. Soon thereafter, partly as a result, I bought a brand-new vehicle, and will leave it to the dealer to do any work for at least the warranty period.
Also, I don't think independent shops are going to be very well-versed in the current iteration of Toyota's variable valve timing or permanent all-wheel drive. I don't want them poking around and trying to learn about these things on my vehicle. Plus, the dealership's service department has treated me right, and act like they want my repeat business. So they'll get it, even though it means driving further to go there.
After the warranty expires, I'll continue to give the dealer my service work until they give me a good reason to stop taking it to them. If they continue to treat me right, I'll repay them with loyalty.
And they are swamped with work in a too-small space (the cost of their success), which can be a problem when you expect your vehicle back on time.
If a dealer's shop is well-run, I think there tends to be less turnover in help. The good mechanics for that make probably gravitate toward the best-run shop in the area. (Theory, admittedly.) And guys that see one make all day every day are going to be able to make an accurate diagnosis more quickly.
As to cost, when you buy a make with a low frequency-of-repair history, the cost differential between dealer and independent is minimized. You'd pay a significant premium if you drove a Porsche, sure.
And I like the idea of spending my money as close to home as possible, but, again, I have no faith that the local guys keep up with new technology as well as the factory-trained guys.
I have had bad experiences with dealer techs at VW, Chevy and Olds over the past 20 years. On the other hand, the Indie that I have been going to for the past 12 years has had the same 3 guys working for him since the beginning. He's in business for 21 years now.I get my vehicle when promised and I don't have to make an appointment two weeks in advance. My money is on a good independent guy. It's important to a small businessman to do good work, otherwise they aren't going to last very long in a market that offers competition from dealers and other independents. Just my $.02.
Ron