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I created a new board because there appeared to not be an existing board.
Glad you found it!
Steve, Host
Thanks,
Dusty
kirstie_h
Roving Host & Future Vehicles Host
MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR
Need help navigating? kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.
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That said, I see so many Sprinters here in the Boston area. Of course, FedEx was the first, but UPS now has them and I see on a daily basis many outfitted for tradespeople, florists, and general delivery.
Its too bad that we only get the "regular van" models here.
I've posted links here to the other models that we can't get in North America (including the flat-deck truck with folding sides) but my posts seem to dissapear. Is it because no one wants to know that their "Dodge" van that was shipped to NA by Mercedes was actually built by VW?
Here's a link to the UK site:
http://www.volkswagen-vans.co.uk/lt.htm
Mercedes renewed their agreement with VW to purhase vans for another 8 years, so we'll have access to these great German trucks for years to come, although in a round-about way.
BTW: VW have 35% market share in Brazil for heavy trucks (which has the same population as the US) and VW is opening a heavy truck plant in Mexico in 2004, which is also classed as "Domestic production" per NAFTA, although I don't believe they plan to sell any into the US.
In fact, VW claims a 158 HP diesel option in their vans, which I would guess is the Mercedes engine. VW & Mercedes swap production all the time ... some VW car engines are built in Mercedes plants, etc.
And VW vans all take Mercedes wheels ... even my wife's Eurovan, because the passenger vans are also sold by Mercedes (with a Merc engine) in Europe. You cannot fit VW wheels onto a VW van!
btw, posts don't disappear around here absent the rare server glitch. If one is deleted for some reason, you'll get mail. Unless your email in your profile is wrong?
Steve, Host
But anyway, what do you suppose the
WWWeb address for the SPORTSMOBILE COMpany looks like?
Personally I'd only buy it if I knew a mechanic named Dieter who can take care of that super-duper common-rail direct-injection glow-in-the-dark engine. If it breaks down in Lost Undershirt, ND, the mechanic will be looking for the 318 under the hood for a week. Check out the Dec car&drver, they have a review (of sorts). Of course, it's by John Phillips, so it's a little silly.
Good luck, -Mathias
Leaving your plastic kayak that close to the fire isn't ok!
Steve, Host
they make a RV from the Sprinter.
the Dodge/Freightliner Sprinter, especially the 3500 series. However, the engine size seems
small when compared to the competition. Its maximum towing capacity is about half that
of the Chevy Express and the Ford Econoline.
Has anyone out there actually used one fully loaded to capacity (9,900 Lbs. GVWR), and
if so, how does it perform ?? Does the 3500 high roof 158 WB version always come equipped with dual rear wheels ?? Is there a larger fuel tank available ??
When I told him he didn't seem too enthusiastic about it, he said he would rather be driving his old truck. Whatever that was.
I was hoping that the people driving them for a living would be more enamored of them.
Steve, Host
Is interest heating up?
Steve, Host
0-60mph, 13.1 seconds
"street start" 5-60mph, 14.3 seconds
1/4 mile 19.0secs at 70mph
Top speed 90mph
Roadholding 0.65g
I thought only things with hooves pulled as little 0.65 g's !
The gas mileage is great for the size of the vehicle of course, but I'd be worried about being killed driving this thing. Of course if the kids borrowed it you wouldn't have to worry about them going out drag racing (heh, heh).
And I guess you could round out your fleet by having a Honda Insight as your neck-snapping, "sports car". ;-)
He took me for a ride last night.
I was suprised at how agile and powerful it was. It had a Mercedes 5 cyl diesel. The interior was spartan, but it had the rear AC unit on the roof which positively refrigerated the interior in about 2 minutes. The U-turning radius was better than our 2000 Sienna (really, we tested them). It cornered suprisingly flat.
The liftover height in the rear was excellent. The cargo area was enormous. Leg room was excellent, getting in and out was a snap compared to our Sienna.
He claims he's getting 25MPG in mixed driving... if I didn't know him, I wouldn't believe it.
There are downsides. It's NOISY, as you might expect. The seats are short-bottomed and hard, easy to get in and out of (think short run bus), but I wouldn't think they'd be comfortable for a long haul.
He got out the door for less than a Sienna XLE.
My family is smaller, so I wouldn't need one. However, if you need one, and can live with the noise, I'd think it would be a good choice.
fl-sprinter.com
mysprintervan.com
Thanx in advance.
Larry
You can email me at vampire@n2net.net with FL Sprinter in the subject line if you have any info for me.
I'd read that they were marketed through Freightliner initially because the target market was commercial fleet sales, and it was competing against bigger trucks.
I still find it funny to see a VW van with a Benz engine sporting a Dodge grille and occasionally wearing a Freightliner badge on the back!
I wonder if Dodge will also sell the Benz-powered version of VW's Eurovan that is sold through MB in Europe?
Chevy Van - 14mpg - $1.90/gallon gas price - $10,000 cheaper
Sprinter - 22mpg - $2.25/gallon gas price
Using these numbers, I calculated the $/mile for both vans. The Chevy had a cost about .135/mile, where the Sprinter had a cost of about .10/mile. Then I divided the price difference of the vans ($10,000) by the difference in gas prices per mile (.035 or so), to arrive at the break even mileage.
The break even mileage turns out to be 300,000 miles! In other words, you have to drive the Sprinter 300,000 miles before its total cost is less than the Chevy full size van. Since there is no way I can see a work truck lasting 300,000 miles, the Sprinter does not make sense to me.
Steve, Host
Also - the Sprinter supposedly requires much less maintenance - ie oil change is needed only every 20,000 miles per the product brochure. The Mercedes diesel turbo engine also comes with a 100,000 mile or 7 year warranty - does Chevy match that?.
I have heard of Mercedes going several hundred thousand miles - but not too many Chevys. My current Chevy 1500 van runs ok but I am not enamored with it.
Also - if you buy now - you can still in get the SUV tax loophole (which might also apply to your Chevy)which is now closing or narrowing greatly (pursuant to a federal law passed in the last couple of weeks) at the end of this calendar year. You can deduct the entire cost of your business use Sprinter this year if you buy now. (As I understand it - if you buy, for example, a $40,000 Sprinter now, and even assume that you finance it all, you can write off the entire amount from this year's taxes; I am not an accountant so talk with your tax adviser - but that is my understanding.) So - you also need to factor in the bigger tax writeoff in this year that you would realize if you bought the more expensive Sprinter versus the Chevy.
When you do all that - I would be suprised if the Sprinter does not come out cheaper in the long run. Good luck with whichever one you buy.
Chevy Astro passenger vans have gone 650,000 and 700,000 miles when used for shuttle service when the round trip is about 160 miles 50/50 Interstate and regular highway.
A 140" Sprinter in cargo trim, 3500, with the high top starts at $32K according to the Dodge web site. 367 square feet of cargo space.
A Chevy Express extended, 3500, starts at $26K according to the Chevy web site, with the smallest engine. about 275 square feet of cargo space...
Should you do that math again?
An outfit in CA indicates they can "retrofit" 140" WB sprinters with AWD, and they can also boost horsepower/torque to 205/330 or 230/360. Has anyone tried something like this?
1. Diesel is currently more expensive than gas. Please see
http://tonto.eia.doe.gov/oog/info/gdu/gasdiesel.asp
If we change the gas and diesel prices to be even at $2/gallon, the Chevy costs about .14/mile to run while the sprinter is .09 to run. If we divide the $10,000 price difference by the .05/mile, the break even point is 200,000 miles.
However, I am still sticking to my guns that diesel is more expensive than gas.
2. Less maintenance - The point about oil changes is good, but does not change the conclusion. If we say the Chevy requires three times as many oil changes per 20,000 miles at $30 each, that is $90/20,000 miles, or .0045 cents per mile. In my original analysis, that changes the break even to 263,000 miles.
The warranty difference is also an excellent point. I think the way to make that a like to like comparison would be to assume that one purchases an extended warranty on the Chevy, offering substantially the same warranty as the Dodge. Lets say that warranty costs $2000, bringing the price difference to $8,000. If we combine that with the oil change frequency, the break even falls to 210,850 miles.
Excellent points both, but that does not change my conclusion.
3. The tax writeoff is complicated and I do not know how it would apply specifically to my tax situation. However, for this analysis what would matter is the tax implications on the price difference. If the difference is $10,000, then the write-off would be $10,000. If the tax rate is 28%, then the effective price difference becomes $10,000-$2,800 = $7,200.
Lets combine all of the points you have made. Take the $7,200 difference after taxes and subtract $2,000 for a warranty. The leaves an effective after tax price difference of $5,200. If we divide that by the price difference per mile adjusted for the oil changes, we see a break even of $5,200/.0379415 ($/mile) or 137,053 miles to break even.
For me, that is still too many miles before the break even point.
4. Van size - I am comparing 2500 Chevy regular wheelbase to a 2500 Sprinter with the low roof and short wheelbase.
For me, the cubic foot comparison is not very relevant. The base vans have enough space for me.
The price difference between the vans is much more relevant. I saw a Chevy on the internet equipped as I want for 21k. The Sprinter was 28k TMV through Edmunds.
Lets combine all of the arguments presented. We start with a $7,000 price difference. Then we subtract $2,000 for the warranty. The $5,000 is subsidized by Uncle Sam, so that becomes an after tax difference of $3,600. Take the $3,600 and divide it by price difference per mile to run the trucks. $3,600/.379415 ($/mile) = 94,882 miles to break even.
If I take all of the excellent points into consideration, I still come to the same conclusion, although not as overwhelmingly. 95k is too long to wait for a break even point.
Of course, if I only have a price difference of $3,600, I would spend that to have a nicer or better truck. Now my problem is that I can't find any of these Sprinters around. Even if I get one at a reasonable price, how would I get it serviced?
You can buy some Sprinters for less than $28,000. I don't know if they fit your needs but you might want to try www.sprinter.accessories.com and review the 700 plus Sprinters listed. There are also a whole bunch of Sprinters listed on the Autotrader website.
In terms of servicing - I ordered my Sprinter through Freightliner. There are Freighliner dealerships all over the country so I am not too worried about getting a place to service it. Plus any Dodge dealership, selling the Sprinter, would also be able to assist you.
Bottom line = I think the a Mercedes Sprinter will last longer than a Chevy. That is why I am buying a Sprinter cargo van, which is on order, and having it converted into a 9 passenger conversion van. With 6 kids and my wife and I - I need something that will last 10 years and I am placing my bet on the Sprinter. Plus - I will have the only Sprinter in my town - which will be easy to spot in the mall parking lot and given that there are few on the road - it will make it all the more fun driving it.
You also might want to check with Fed Ex.If the Chevy's are that much better and/or cheaper - then it would not make sense for Fed Ex to have a whole fleet of Sprinters.
Good luck with the Chevy.
The Sprinter already has the door and inside height, so all I need add is a lift...
The converted Chevy van (with a lower door height and lower interior height completed) costs $31,000 from one Massachusetts dealer....
For a few thousand more, I can have a tall roof 118" Sprinter...no contest!!
I'm still looking for the best price for the Sprinter in my area (and the wheelchair lift), but should be buying one soon.
Steve, Host
brings you to
http://www.blindswholesale.com/
where the word Sprinter does not appear.
Here are my bookmarked Sprinter accessory/customizer sites:
http://www.berryautos.com/sprinterparts.htm
http://www.whnet.com/4x4/sprinter.html
http://www.midwayspecialtyvehicles.com/expediter.htm#
http://www.expeditersonline.com/artman/publish/article_001518.htm- l
A wood and carbon fibre dash kit for a Sprinter seems a touch overkill though.
Steve, Host
Steve, Host
2005 Dodge Sprinter
Steve, Host
erics6, "Subaru Crew - Meet The Members II" #23190, 13 Dec 2004 1:08 pm
Steve, Host
If you are buying a light vehicle, new, there is an additional accelerated depreciation of about $4,000 if you put it in service this year. This provision expires this year. It may be renewed, or not.
There is another provision under Chapter 179 that exentially allows you to take the full depreciation on a vehicle with over 6,000 lb GVWR. GM lists the qualifying vehicles at:
http://www.gmfleet.com/us/about/news/articles/103003b.html
It does not have to be new, just new to your business. Last list I saw was: BMW X5, Cadillac Escalade, Chevy Astro, Chevy Avalanche, Chevy Express, Chevy Silverado, Chevy Suburban, Chevy Tahoe, Dodge Durango, Dodge Ram Van, Dodge Ram Maxi Van, Dodge Ram Wagon, Dodge Ram 1500, Dodge Ram 2500, Dodge Ram 3500, Ford Excursion, Ford Expedition, Ford E-150, Ford E-250, Ford E-350, Ford F-150, Ford F-250, Ford F-350, GMC Yukon, GMC Safari, GMC Savana, GMC Sierra, GMC Sierra Denali, Land Rover Discovery, Land Rover Range Rover, Lincoln Blackwood, Lincoln Navigator, Mercedes-Benz ML320, Mercedes-Benz ML500, Mercedes-Benz ML55 AMG, Toyota Land Cruiser, Toyota Sequoia, and Toyota Tundra.
Anyone experienced in buying one for more civilian use?