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Comments
I agree about the width. What's interesting is that many vehicles are getting wider. The 2001+ Chryslers are wider (that the Odyssey no less). Same goes for the TrailBlazer/Envoy and Explorer. I have a pretty wide garage and the Odyssey fits fine, but it takes some getting used to. Especially if you are backing up at night into any spaces.
I for one can't wait for the Pilot. I think it will be another Honda home run as long as the pricing is realistic (which Honda is usually quite good about) and the vehicle is a large midsize (whatever that means), Honda will have a home run.
I think Pilot would be larger on the inside than Explorer evenif they are identical on the outside.
The rear door on the MDX was designed with a slope for a reason. With the hinge farther forward on the vehicle, the door swings in an upward arc rather than backward. This means that you don't have to take a few steps back when opening the gate. If you've ever had someone park close behind you, you'll understand what I mean.
I also think the Pilot's interior room will be much greater than the Explorer's, while having the same exterior dimensions. I can tell that the 3rd row, even if large enough for only 3 ids, will have superb legroom and height if they are to use the same seating arrangement in the Mobilo.
Bob
Just wondering, are garages in California narrower than those on the East Coast? Or perhaps auto mfrs feel that vehicle width is not a consideration for most buyers.
I think any "full-size" car will have some problems when it comes to getting in narrow areas. Even though your van is a "mini-van," it is very nearly the same width as a full-size Ford Crown Victoria.
Bob
" I don't like the name"...who cares? It's a car! We don't have to "like" the name!
Seriously...I wouldn't pay a lot of attention to the spy photos. They are usually pretty far off.
Honda keeps things pretty quiet until the release date. One thing...I think it'll be a winner!
http://carpoint.msn.com/Vip/Gallery/Acura/MDX/3.asp
The 3rd row seating in the MDX is supposed to hold 2 children. If the Pilot's is to hold 3, then it will indeed be somewhat larger than the MDX. By the way, the MDX is a full 4 feet wide in the back, between the wheel wells.
Bob
Perhaps there could be some sort of folding support mechanism that would move with the seat but that would entail more connection points in the floor, more obstructions to a flat floor, and greater potential for failure.
I'm sure Honda has done a cost benefit analysis on this. If there was enough market potential at the anticipated cost increase to have a split folding seat, Honda would probably do it.
In terms of folding, I suspect it folds forward, like the MDX, Durango, Explorer, etc., and not backwards into a well like the Odyssey.
Bob
Based on the numbers, there will be 3 across seating for the second row in the Pilot. Everyone's complaint with the Ody is that they need room for 5 and cargo. Now everyone's complaint will be they need room for 6 and cargo. Too bad we can't make everyone happy.
Bob
I've never sat in the MDX and assumed the rear seat was the same as in the Ody. Further, when I saw the photo at MSN of the seats down, there is a handle on the interior near the bumper that made it look like that was the case. Now that I look closer, light slowly is dawning on marble noggin. In that case they should be able to easily make a split seat.
Now the real argument - 50/50, 60/40, 33/33/33 split? :-)
Actually, when you think about it, if the middle seat had a 60/40 split, and the rear seat had a 66/33 split (because the third seat is a bit narrower due to the intrusion made by the rear wheel wells), the split between the middle and rear seats would probably line up, or at least be quite close to lining up.
In the MDX, Acura gave the rear seat a 50/50 split, because it only holds two people. The problem is with that set up, you get an awkward spilt when the middle seat is partially folded. The split between the rear and middle seats is nowhere even close to one another.
Bob
I agree that it would be technically possible to create a split third row, but I don't see the need. How often are you going to have five people in the vehicle, while hauling something too long to fit behind the second row, and not be able to stow it on the roof? Not likley. IMHO.
The Ody I know way too well. We have that seat up and down a couple of times per week. I made the mistake of assuming the MDX used the same setup.
The split seat (or lack of) comes up as an issue in some of the Ody forums very often. If someone has 5 people travelling, they find the non split seat to be a waste as they either have too much luggage to carry or have to leave someone in the driveway. Personally, it's not an issue - 2 kids, seat down with all our stuff. Get to Grandma's, stuff comes out, seat goes up, and the geriatrics get to contort themselves into the third seat!! Luckily they are in good shape!!
Probably more often than you think, as rob2 has alluded to in the Ody forums. I, for one, wished Honda had offered a 66/33 split on that third seat. It certainly would increase your cargo/passenger flexibility options. The domestic mini-vans give you that feature, even though their rear seats doesn't fold into the floor. At least you can remove a portion of the third seat.
Bob
With 2 people up front and 3 across in the second row, you can fold down the third row and have (I'm guessing here) about 35-40 cu.ft. of cargo space. Based on what I've seen from the Ody and MDX, that's enough room for two bikes or almost a dozen small suitcases.
If I'm correct in post #124, the Ody has trouble because the second row can only accomodate 2 persons. Thus you are forced to use all three rows to fit that 5th passenger (and have no cargo sapce).
It's just another *sales feature* that one may or may not need or desire.
Bob
AFAIK the domestics offer 2 and 3 person seating in some variation of bench or captain configuration for the second row and third rows. Honda seems to likes simplicity in manufacturing and their research must have shown that customers had a preference for the second row captain seats and the magic seat. I know that the 2 captain seats was the configuration I wanted in every van I looked at. Although the seats are removeable in the domestics, I don't have a place to store them and don't always want to leave them behind.
As for the Pilot, they will probably offer some sort of split seat as that is what the competition offers and from what I have seen, there isn't a whole lot of cargo space behind the third seat. I was suprised that although a friend's Expedition is the same length as the Ody, there is little space behind the third seat. Hence a split seat will make more sense.
I love the Honda "magic seat," but I would love it even more if it had a split-fold capability.
Bob
Bob - I suspect that one reason for offering a split rear bench is so that they can be removed in two pieces. As one piece, the seat would be cumbersome, heavy, and more difficult to store.
Absolutely, but it also offers another "marketing selling point" as well as increasing your passenger/cargo packaging options.
I'm sure it's just a matter of time before Honda, or someone else offers a split-folding rear seat that folds into a well like the Odyssey. As we all know, everyone tries to leap-frog the competition in one form or another.
Bob
Here's a press release on the new Lexus GX 470, which I suspect is the Lexus version of the '03 4Runner. I spoke to a Toyota rep the other day at the Washington DC Auto Show, and he mentioned that the new 4Runner would have the 4.7L V8 as an option.
This vehicle, and even more so—the new 4Runner, will go up against the new Pilot, as well as the MDX. It has the same full-time 4WD as found on the Land Cruiser/LX 470, which means it has a low range. I've also read elsewhere that it will seat 7.
The new 4Runner will go on sale next fall, shortly after the Pilot debuts, and the Lexus version next January.
Bob
http://www.lexus.com/about/news/popups/pr_2001/pr_2001_12_17.html
Some of the items on my Pilot wish list- 1) Enough cargo space with both rear seats folded to accomodate a 4x8 sheet of plywood. 2) A better folding or sliding seat mechanism on the 2nd seat to access the rear seat. 3) a folding 3rd seat EXACTLY like the ODY (what a marketing coup that would be!) I should be able to repoort on all these speculations after jan 12, after viewing what I hope will be a production prototype of the Pilot in Detroit.
I wish they would offer that over here.
Bob
I had finally decided on the the Odyssey and now I am thinking of waiting for the pilot, or at least until Jan auto show to find out more.
I looked at the Buick rendezvous and there wasnt enough cargo behind the third row and with three carseats in the 2nd row, I couldnt access the third row. I am hoping that there will be access to 3rd row in the pilot without disrupting the carseats, and that there will be enough cargo behind the third row (like an Odyssey), and that it will be easier or the same to drive/park as the Odyssey. I prefer to have the infant and toddlers closer to me in the 2nd row.
Karen
Karen - It's too soon to tell. We can only speculate about the Pilot until Honda releases some "official" materials. Though, I'd have to say that I doubt it. There would need to be a fifth door on the side of the vehicle to get past the second row of seats.
Also, I don't see how the Pilot, or any SUV, can allow access to the 3rd row with 3 car seats in the 2nd row...it sounds impossible to me.
It sounds like you really need an AWD minivan or a full-size SUV like a Tahoe or Sequoia.
All of the 3 row SUV's will easily handle 5 people and their cargo. Cargo space only becomes a problem when you add that 6th person and must deploy the 3rd row seat. The Pilot is likely to be similarly handicapped. Only a minivan or full-size SUV will haul this many people and carry their cargo with ease.
Bob
http://www.honda.co.jp/auto-lineup/lagreat
The following link will take you to Japanese Odyssey...
http://www.honda.co.jp/auto-lineup/odyssey
Latter is available with optional AWD and a choice of 2.3/I-4 (150 HP) and 3.0 liter V6 (210 HP) engines mated to five speed automatic.
Robert, one pic clearly shows a split in rear seat.