Edmunds dealer partner, Bayway Leasing, is now offering transparent lease deals via these forums. Click here to see the latest vehicles!

Honda Element

1…7071737576…93

Comments

  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Ridgeline is so much heavier that you can't even compare these two, at least in a multi-vehicle crash. Element may have better accident avoidance (it's nimbler) but the pickup has so much more mass.

    -juice
  • tankbrotankbro Member Posts: 6
    Juice,

    Are you saying that more mass = more safety? All things being equal I would probably agree, but you pointed out that all things aren't equal; the nimbler vehicle may have some advantages. I will probably end up with the Ridgeline as it offers the mass advantage and the side curtain air bags. Still I would like to know more about the airbags offered in the Element. Do the side airbags protect the driver's head or can that only be accomplished by curtain-style airbags?
  • robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    IIRC, most side airbags are typically designed to protect the chest area. Side curtains are typically designed to protect the head.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    It's in a different size and weight class, so really you can't even compare them. NHTSA and IIHS acknowledge that.

    In multi-vehicle crashes, more mass sure does make you safer. The lighter vehicle absorbs the brunt of the crash energy.

    In a single-vehicle crash, crumple zones and even the ability to avoid a crash in the first place might recover some of that edge. But not all, IMO.

    The Element's air bags protect the torso, but not the head, I believe. Please correct me if I'm wrong, folks. Crash test scores are only OK, not great.

    Ridgeline is neat, that "trunk" is brilliant and it's so much wider in the rear seat, plus it has a lot more payload.

    If you don't think it's overkill for your needs, I say go for it.

    -juice
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Forester is one exception, it's side air bags protect the head and torso. But it's pretty uncommon.

    Side impact scores show that design works well, however, 5/5 stars in NHTSA and Good from IIHS in side impacts for the Forester. Plus the bags are standard.

    -juice
  • 307web307web Member Posts: 1,033
    Yes, Subaru is doing everything well now except styling.
    The crash tests of the Forester and Outback are excellent, they get great gas mileage and now they are even on top of reliability ratings above both Toyota and Honda.
  • varmintvarmint Member Posts: 6,326
    "Are you saying that more mass = more safety?"

    The answer depends on the skills of the driver. But from a statistical point of view...

    "The report found that heavier vehicles in categories such as cars, SUVs and pickups generally had lower death rates. Among SUVs, the death rate in the lightest vehicles was more than twice as high as in the heaviest SUVs."

    From Detroit News
  • carlrcarlr Member Posts: 6
    Can you tell me where you got this information? I have not been able to get a commitment for curtain airbags on the '06 Element even by calling Honda.
  • believebelieve Member Posts: 74
    I thought I just read where the Outback failed
    the side impact test? I've been wrong before :>)
  • varmintvarmint Member Posts: 6,326
    As posted above, Honda has stated that they will be adding several safety features (ABS, VSA, airbags, etc.) to all their light trucks by the end of calendar year 2006.

    The Element appears to be on a 5 year design cycle, just like most every other Honda product. In the fourth year of a five year cycle, the vehicle will get a refresh. This year was the CR-V's refresh. It got all the stuff Honda promised in their Safety for Everyone campaign.

    Next year is the fourth year for the Element (and also Pilot). So, both are due for this refresh. Both will also be sold as 2007 models - introduced in mid and late 2006. Technically, that would allow Honda to meet their Safety for Everyone promise, but upgrades like that in the very last year of production are almost unheard of.

    Of course, Honda reps will never confirm anything about future product changes. Even with the information sitting right on their desk.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Outback did very well in side impacts. It was the Legacy that tested poorly. Keep in mind there is about a 3" difference, i.e. the Outback sits a lot higher.

    Plus the Outback tested was a wagon, while the Legacy was a sedan.

    Subaru recalled the side air bags in Legacy sedans (only sedans) and the scores improved somewhat, but they were still only average.

    In a bizarre twist, an identical Legacy sedan earned the highest score of any car ever in Australian NCAP side impact tests.

    The tests are similar so noone can explain why. Go figure.

    -juice
  • carlrcarlr Member Posts: 6
    Thanks for the info. When you say that "upgrades in the last year of production are almost unheard of," do you mean that is why they will do the airbag upgrade in the fourth (2006) versus the fifth year? Does this ALSO mean there will not be a 2006 ELEMENT model but only a 2007? I am anxious to buy one but I guess I may have to wait another year because I don't want one without curtain airbags.

    Suppose I could buy one now and trade it later but then there is the hit for depreciation!
  • varmintvarmint Member Posts: 6,326
    Put yourself in Honda's shoes. Would you spend a whole lot of money making changes to vehicle that is scheduled to get a complete overhaul one year later? That is why late upgrades are very rare.

    If Honda sticks with the 5 year cycle (and there's nothing to suggest that they won't), the Element should get a refresh for the 2006 model year. This refresh should include the curtain style airbags in addition to the seat-mounted backs that are already an option. Those vehicles should hit the lots in November or December of 2005.

    Then we will see a 2007 model at the very end of 2006. That will be the last year for the current generation of the Element. The vehicle will only see minimal changes that year - cosmetic stuff.
  • carlrcarlr Member Posts: 6
    Thanks again. Makes sense. At least I won't have to wait as long for the curtain air bags. Sounds like they are only about 7-8 months away.
  • 307web307web Member Posts: 1,033
    We don't know that the refresh includes side curtain airbags. It may not.
    Most likely the refresh will include standard ABS and seat mounted torso airbags (the same ones that are now available as an option), new paint colors, new tail lights, revised grill, bumpers, wheels and seat fabric.
    Honda has not promised side curtain airbags on all vehicles until the end of calendar year 2006.
    It would be nice if side curtain airbags were to appear on the 2006 Element though, but they have not been promised by Honda.
  • varmintvarmint Member Posts: 6,326
    Yes, Honda has not promised curtain bags until the end of 2006, but there is no good reason for them to wait that long. Read up a few posts. There are no promises, but it is likely.
  • 307web307web Member Posts: 1,033
    The end of calendar year 2006 happens to coincide with the release of the next Element, so that seemed like a hint.
  • varmintvarmint Member Posts: 6,326
    No, the end of 2007 would coincide with the next Element.

    2003 Intro
    2004 2nd year
    2005 3rd year
    2006 refresh
    2007 final year

    The resdesign comes in the form of the 2008 model year.
  • 307web307web Member Posts: 1,033
    OK, then I'll look for side curtain airbags, ABS and VSC in the 2006 Element this December.
    If it has all that by then, I'll probably go sit in one and test drive it to see if I like the way it drives.
  • jlim1jlim1 Member Posts: 50
    I was initially interested in the CR-V, but by the news of it there have been reports of CR-V engine fires and PTTR.
    Has anyone known of similar incidents in the Elements? I guess they are not exactly identical mechanically, or do they (just in different skin)?
    Please advise. Thanks much.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    IIRC there was one single Element fire, but that's not enough to establish any sort of pattern. Actually, that low number implies there has not been the same problem.

    -juice
  • varmintvarmint Member Posts: 6,326
    The Element (and Accord) are built here in the states. Thus, they are not shipped overseas and not subjected to the same conditions which caused the sticky gasket issue. That is what apparently led to the problems with the CR-V (which is shipped from Japan and the UK).

    On PTTR, yes, I believe some Element owners have reported problems.
  • mdubmdub Member Posts: 1
    Wife and I are thinking of buying an AWD EX Auto when the 2006 models hopefully come out with side curtain airbags. Any owners out there with small infants that have some input on kids (specifically infants) and the element?
  • varmintvarmint Member Posts: 6,326
    I'm not an owner, but you might want to consider this.

    The Element's rear seat is positioned way back in the vehicle. To secure or remove an infant from a car seat may require that you lean way over and into the car. Not especially good for your back.

    On the other hand, there is so much space in the backseat area, you may be able to climb right in and manage the child from inside.

    Both situations will depend largely on how big/small you and your wife are. It's something you should try while shopping.
  • goltgogoltgo Member Posts: 54
    Not an owner either, but I thought I should mention that the deep rear seat can be seen as an asset as well when it comes to infant seats. With the arrival of my nephew, the happy grandparents had to choose between putting the rear-facing car seat in granpa's Outback or granma's Element. In the Outback, the front passenger seat had to be brought all the way forward on its track and the incline adjusted to an awkward upright stance in order to provide enough room for the rear-facing seat behind it. The child seat is designed to flip around to face forward once the child is old enough, so it may be larger than rear-facing-only seats out there, and you might not encounter this problem. At any rate, the seat fit fine in Granma's Element. It is hard to get the little one out if you are determined to stay standing on the street, but she prefers to get in the back and sit next to him as she's unbuckling him, pick him up, and then climb out. Just my two cents...
  • micwebmicweb Member Posts: 1,617
    I initially had a PT Cruiser, which had too small a trunk to be useful. I compared it to an Element, but the trunk area was actually the same (small) because the Element has all this space between the front and back seats. We ended up getting the CR-V, which has less rear seat legroom, but much more trunk space. On the CR-V, you can also slide the rear sear forward and backward and/or recline it to trade off between trunk space and rear seat leg room. The CR-V had plently of room for both a backward facing baby seat and now for the front facing seat. Like you mentioned, front facing seats aren't space hogs, just the rear facing seats.
  • 307web307web Member Posts: 1,033
    The CR-V is a better choice people with kids.
    The rear doors of the Element will be an unbelievable hassle as you deal with infant car seats and letting kids in a out at soccer practice.
    The Element is also a 4 seater, which is not suited for families. The CR-V serves that purpose well, so why fight with an Element trying to make it do what it isn't intended to do?
  • gee35coupegee35coupe Member Posts: 3,387
    You don't have a center post to deal with when working with the back seat. There is just a big opening in the side of the vehicle just like a minivan.
  • andyman1970andyman1970 Member Posts: 47
    I have young children, with one still in a car seat and the another in a booster chair. I just purchased an Element EX AWD and I have no problem with access to the rear seats.

    Regarding the 2006 Elements, I believe you won't start to see those until October-November 2005.
  • 307web307web Member Posts: 1,033
    A minivan would completely ideal for families since a minivan also would not have the center post, plus lots more room, plus none of the Element's problems of letting rear passengers in and out of the back seats.
    When you have children that need to be let in and out of the back seat on a frequent basis, it will be a nightmare having to deal with opening both front and rear doors of an Element.
  • micwebmicweb Member Posts: 1,617
    "why fight with an Element trying to make it do what it isn't intended to do? "

    Because the Element seems to have a lower ride height, which makes it more socially responsible - better bumper compatibility with passenger cars. Also, it has the low maintenance upholstery and floor, seats that fold flat to make a "bed", funky (I like it )styling...

    The only fighting I would do with the Element would be to add side curtain air bags, ABS, and stability control across the board, not as an option - like on the 2005 CR-V we actually bought. I could deal with the allocation of more space to the passenger compartment vs. bigger trunk space (throw a duffel in the middle or stack the trunk luggage higher). I can deal with 4 seat positions - that let's my wife and a friend ride with a baby (an entire second couple can just bring their own car!).

    One thing I definitely like better on the Element is the availability of a stick shift across the model line. On the CR-V, you can only get a stick shift on the much more expensive EX model.
  • micwebmicweb Member Posts: 1,617
    "A minivan would completely ideal "

    Yes, but when you cross a Mini Cooper with a minivan you get - - an Element! That's why we like it. It's fun like a Mini, and (somewhat) practical like a true minivan. There are always some tradeoffs. This is a tradeoff towards a little fun. And you certainly get better gas mileage. And probably save about $10k.

    Which makes me realize that Honda aimed for Gen Y and hit Baby Boomers....
  • spencer3spencer3 Member Posts: 1
    How awkward is it to use the side doors, for getting passengers in and out of back seat. In some parking lots, it is bad enough, getting into the side passenger doors--but if both doors have to be open, while the rear seated passenger gets in--it adds additional hassle. How have any element owners found this? Thanks.
    spencer3
  • andyman1970andyman1970 Member Posts: 47
    I have no problems with the Element side doors, even in parking lots. This is one feature that make the Element a very cleverly designed vehicle. Kudos to the engineering department.
  • north1north1 Member Posts: 11
    spencer3:

    not awkward for my family at all, infact, it provides for much needed additional entry space when boarding and with a 3 year old, loading is a cinch. you do need to be sure that you have adequate room on the side you are boarding from (at least 4 ft.)..but I haven't found this to be an issue.
  • footiefootie Member Posts: 636
    We think that the doors are very awkward. We have teenagers and they like to sit in the back. So if you are in a spot where there are cars parallel parked on both sides of you it's tough.

    You have to open the front door to open the back. When the front is open, there's nowhere to stand to open the back.

    So we back out parallel parking to let kids in and out of the back.

    Plus the driver or passenger in the front has to unbuckle their seat belt to let people in the back.

    Not so bright engineering, we find in reality.

    Just as bad are the easy to wash plastic floors, that ANYTHING on the planet will slide around on. Put a flat package in the back. Take a turn, hear it slide. Put on the brakes, here it comes.

    We've had our 2004 EX FWD for 14 months. It's a lease vehicle and we'll be happy when we return it in a couple of years.

    It's going to dealership on Wednesday for a wind whistle noise in the front windshield and a fix for the driver side door which won't open when the temperature goes below 20 degrees.

    Footie
  • gee35coupegee35coupe Member Posts: 3,387
    to be a family sedan. I think they were right on for intended audience. The problems that families are having with the doors is a by-product of giving it a job that it wasn't intended.

    I don't recall Honda ever advertising the vehicle as a perfect minivan substitute.
  • footiefootie Member Posts: 636
    That's probably right. Unfortunately a lot of 'families' and 'older buyers' bought the Element for it's utility only to find that access was a bit more difficult in real life than on the test ride.

    We are also convinced that the FWD Element is the worst driving inclement weather FWD vehicle we've ever had. It's geared too low, shod with lousy tires for our neck of the woods (New England) and doesn't even have an option to get limited slip. The FWD should only be sold in those wonderful California beach towns where the kids in the sales brochures live.

    I don't think those issues are audience related. The FWD is just plain lousy on wet, slippery roads, ice and snow.

    Oh, and we should be believe the car company ads right? Tell that to a Honda salesman and see if they steer you away from a vehicle you are interested in...
  • daft_punkdaft_punk Member Posts: 6
    I'm thinking about buying an 4WD Element. I've some questions...

    When's the best time to purchase, price-wise ? A salesman at the local dealer says that they are at an end-of-the-month crunch, so they are willing to deal. Yet would it be better for me to wait until the '06s to come out to grab a leftover '05 ? Are rebates usually offered at this time ?

    I've read here about poor rain and snow traction on the 2WD (thanks Footie). Is the 4WD a lot better, and has it a limited-slip differential ?

    Thanks.

    The daft one
  • jcwardjcward Member Posts: 1
    What is Mothers ? I used Turtle Wax on the plastic trim and it looks terrible ! I have tried quite a few things to remove the wax and nothing has worked. I tried washing it again, Armoral, Windex etc....any suggestions ?
  • gee35coupegee35coupe Member Posts: 3,387
    A salesman will sell a vette to a pregnant woman as sole transportation. Telling you what you need isn't his job. But the Element was never geared to be sold to families. Looking at the accessories that they offer for it would tell you that babies weren't quite in mind when the Element was concieved.

    If you'd read back to the beginning of this forum there was much discussion about the number of families we saw checking the car out at auto shows. But just because families found they like the utility doesn't mean the doors are engineered wrong. They just weren't engineered to be convenient for families.

    There may be a lot of weight transfer causing the problems with traction. The 4wd may be the way to go if you have a lot of inclement weather. Or a VERY light foot on the go pedal.
  • lumbarlumbar Member Posts: 421
    Sorry, but I see little in your diatribe against the Element that isn't a matter of personal choice. If its configuration isn't optimal for the intended use, then the opportunity to determine that before purchase is there. If the FWD version is that inadequate in certain climates (something BTW I've read from no one else), well, that's why they make AWD. Honda will make its vehicles available to whomever wants 'em wherever they want them. If somebody in the northeast doesn't want to spring for AWD on a vehicle that's set up quite a bit differently than your average FWD sedan, well, that's their choice.
  • footiefootie Member Posts: 636
    Generally critical commentary in Edmunds' forums is most appropriate when directed at automobiles, not posters.

    FWIW, our experience with the Element has been very positive with the exception of the problems noted earlier.

    The handling in inclement weather (rain, ice, snow, mixes) is the primary reason we don't let our high school age kids drive the car. We think that Honda's target audience, young people, are generally more inexperienced in delicate driving situations than older drivers.

    We feel that Honda did not do a good job engineering a vehilce like the Element and bringing the FWD version to market without some form of driven wheel slippage management, whether it was limited slip or traction control. The AWD system is just that. What you don't know when you are shopping for one of these and test driving a FWD version in dry weather, is how dicey it is when it's not dry. From a stopping point of view, the ABS is great and you can definitely feel/hear it at work!
  • blueiedgodblueiedgod Member Posts: 2,798
    Try replacing tires with tires with better grip. There is no all season tire that is good at everything. If snow is a problem, invest in a set of snow tires, like Bridgestone Blizzak. And get good wet tires, like Yokohama AVID, or Bridgestone Potenza. Good summer tires will be horrable in winter, and snow tires will be horrable in dry conditions.

    P.S. Not an iflammation point, but I never understood why people buy SUV's with 2 WD? The reason I am looking at SUV's is to get AWD and utility. If someone just wants the utility, minivans and station wagons are a good choice. This is just my 2 cents.
  • footiefootie Member Posts: 636
    Thanks for the tire suggestions.

    I don't think that I considered the Element a "SUV" in the traditional sense because it is so much smaller.

    Plus our experience with FWD vehicles here in New England for the last 20 or so years have been very satisfactory on all-season tires. The number of times when the snow has been so deep that all-seasons wouldn't get the job done, we didn't drive.

    I didn't have any personal benchmarks to indicate that a FWD vehicle like the Element would be so dicey in variable road conditions.

    Next time, I'll know better.
  • gee35coupegee35coupe Member Posts: 3,387
    It skittered pretty bad on the OEM Bridgestone Duelers. Luckily they wore very quickly and the replacement tires, Turanzas I think, performed MUCH MUCH MUCH better. I'm talking night and day here.
  • hawksnesthawksnest Member Posts: 1
    My wife bought hers last July, 2004. I was driving an AWD Astro van. We pull a 4 kayak trailer, and have three big dogs. After driving hers for a few months, I traded my van on an identical Element (different color) in November. We live in central PA on 300 acres up in the hills. With a half mile long driveway covered with snow and ice (yes I plow it) most of the winter, it gives a good workout to the AWD and ABS brakes systems. The Elements couldn't work better on slippery snow and ice covered roads. They came with Goodyear Wrangler tires. We both have trailer hitches (1500# max) and pull a couple utility trailers. I fly R/C sailplanes all around the East coast. and with the two rear seats out or swung up, I have lots of room. I was looking to buy a Town & Country van when I decided to get the second Element, and saved myself 17K. Lots of fun to drive, I also sold my 2001 Jeep Wrangler, I wasn't driving it anymore. The Elements both have side airbags. BG
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Hilarious. Congrats.

    -juice
  • extremebigdogextremebigdog Member Posts: 10
    Believe it or not Peanut Butter should take care of restoring the finish on the plastic panels. Just smear it on nice and even throughout and let it sit for an hour or so. The plastic absorbs the oils in the peanut butter and regains its 'new' look. It should also remove any excess cleaning products.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Just don't eat it when you're done. :P

    -juice
Sign In or Register to comment.

Helpful Tools

Most popular vehicles