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Inconsiderate Drivers (share your stories, etc.)

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Comments

  • euphoniumeuphonium Member Posts: 3,425
    Jensad??? can you hook me up with a job?

    Jensad is retired. Not stupid. ;)
  • euphoniumeuphonium Member Posts: 3,425
    "I"m a Democrat and voted for Obama"

    It is refreshing to see someone own up to their mistakes. ;)
  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,928
    I'm saying that coming to a full stop has no value and no reason for existing. There is no safety related reason for requiring a full stop on a legal right turn on red. It should be considered a YIELD situation, not a STOP situation. I'm suggesting the laws need to be changed here.

    I'm not saying a stop sign means yield. A Yield sign is not a stop sign. I'm saying that 95% of STOP signs should be changed to Yield signs and the reason they are not is because of revenue generation of stop signs/red light right turns. Pure and simple.

    They aren't being used for the very blantant drivers. Instead of a blantantly dangerous red light runner (one who runs it more than a couple seconds after going red) being ticketed and taken off the road at least for a minimum of 5 minutes, you have the camera letting him go scott free without a care in the world, nor any clue that he just got a ticket and needs to adjust his driving accordingly. He'll find out weeks later, perhaps after killing himself or others doing the same thing.
    '18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,928
    but that would be a rare situation and not a matter of habit.

    Agreed, it shouldn't happen often. It'll be rare, but in those situations where it occurs (and it will if you drive a lot), be prepared to either speed up or hit the brakes hard. Not speeding up risks a red light ticket, and why even take the chance? If you feel that you'll have to brake too hard (and risk getting rear-ended) then I think speeding up is the better choice.

    I want to avoid being in an accident first, avoid getting the most expensive ticket 2nd, and avoid getting the cheapest ticket last.

    It's not a matter of needing to speed up to make the light, it's a matter of not risking JOHNNY LAW seeing things a second slow and thinking your guilty when your not due to split seconds. Why make the umpires call close? AT a minimum, you'll waste a ton of gas and time fighting your ticket in court. BEST to speed up and avoid any "close calls." When I speed up on those rare occassions, it is because I don't want to beat the red light by 1 second, but by 2 seconds.
    '18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,928
    behind a car parked in a driveway

    parked cars would be a condition outside of the roadway itself to slow down a bit. I said when it's WIDE OPEN with good visibility. Parked cars everywhere reduce visibility. Again, going too fast for conditiions is the problem, not the sign being disobeyed under certain circumstances.

    Also, having wide bike lanes to the right and left of a 4 lane roadway (2 going each way) mitigates the parked car problem. That gives you another 11 to 15 feet of buffer space between the sidewalk and your driving lane. Most of the residential areas around here with 4 lanes have bike lanes on both sides (double bike lanes). I'm sure with the extra 15 feet of buffer, I can stop even from 50 MPH in time for that child running from his lawn onto the street.

    That is why people go faster in wider lanes, or where there's more lanes. Drive in the left lane and you add another 11' of buffer zone!
    '18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,928
    Nope, just saying that if it is out of focus or the lens is unclean to the extent that the plate cannot be fully read then a citation is not issued.

    What about when the lens is clear or clean enough to read 5 of the 6 or 7 digits? Do they try and extrapolate the final number or letter? I'm sure that they do!

    What happens if your driving a rental car? The owner of the rental car company is to blame for all your red light camera tickets? What if two people were authorized to drive the car during the rental period? Should man and wife have to incriminate each other? The answer is NO! SEE 5th Amendment!
    If both people plead the 5th, the State has no case, but they blame the registered owner in that case! What a sham! The registered owner being the driver does NOT pass the Reasonable doubt test!

    You have to be proven guilty by the STATE BEYOND a reasonable doubt. That is a constitutional right.
    '18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited April 2011
    Depending on the intersection's design that is often the case. We have plenty of intersections that are like this and EVEN the motorcycle LEO's don't blink an eye when you do turn on red (stop or not). Motorcycle LEO's can nail you much faster than a car LEO. California is situational like that (goofy actually) I can give more examples, but just addressing your issue.
  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,928
    The call it running a red light because it is running a red light. Doesn't matter how fast you go through it it still is running a red light. Why should it have a distiction? Armed robber is no less if you get away with only a buck.

    The distinction comes from the fact it's legal (in most states) to make a right turn during a red light. It is not legal to pass through an intersection in a straight line while the light is red, but you may make a right turn. Therefore, right turns are different. I don't understand what is so hard to understand here.

    How so? Are you trying to justify law breaking?


    Yes, like speed limits not set according to the 85th percentile statute, I believe most stop signs and all right turn red lights could be changed to read "yield" wherever the vehicle code says "complete STOP". Not only could it, but it should. The only reason it doesn't is for revenue generation, pure and simple. 5% of stop signs excluded. The other 95% gotta change!
    '18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited April 2011
    Well no. The practical reality is selective enforcement and don't do stuff right in front of a LEO. It is often said that LEO's really do not have to go trolling for things. People just do the infractions in front of them and they are free to exercise their judgement.
  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,928
    Personally I think that there should be more stringent enforcement of the law, especially when someone makes the right turn on red and cross traffic has to try to avoid them.

    I'd actually agree with that. In fact, I think the vehicle code violation should be changed to include a requirement that someone in traffic had to modify or alter their driving behavior due to Defendents action on the road!

    That would be a failure to yield/failure to yield the right-of-way properly situation. The problem is most officers only issue this ticket when there's no one else around for miles, and there was no vehicle remotely affected by your manuever.

    My opinion is that if nobody was effected by said manuever, then no safety violation was commited (in right turn and U turn situations for that matter). And without a safety violation, I don't believe ANY type of citation should be written. I think most every vehicle code should have SAFETY impairment be a part and element of the crime. No safety hazard created should equal reasonable and prudent LEGAL behaviour. Unfortunately, most CA Vehicle codes are not written that way. Safety does not need to be an element of the crime, nor proven in court.
    '18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • jwilliams2jwilliams2 Member Posts: 910
    edited April 2011
    One of my most frequent annoyances with inconsiderate drivers is with the clowns that pull right out in front of me while making their right turn on red. They never stop, and the split second they take to look to their left isn't really enough time to properly gauge the speed of oncoming traffic. I bet I have to slam on my brakes at least 2 or 3 times a week. And I have the green light.

    These idiots need to learn the law says "Right turn permitted on red after a complete stop". Of course, most of them can't read, and shouldn't be driving anyway.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    Lucky you that you have all those wonderful wide roads with bike lanes, buffer space, also no snow/ice to deal with so you can stop on the proverbial dime from 50 mph whenever you want. No cars parked in driveways, no trees along roadways, nothing to hinder visibility. Not real world for many of us however.

    Drive in the left lane and you add another 11' of buffer zone!

    But isn't the left lane for passing only? It seems rather inconsiderate to treat the left lane as your "driving" lane, dontcha think?
  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,592
    What about when the lens is clear or clean enough to read 5 of the 6 or 7 digits? Do they try and extrapolate the final number or letter? I'm sure that they do!

    No they don't, the whole plate number, type and state must be clear. No guessing, if its not claer no citiation is issued.

    What happens if your driving a rental car?

    Thats between you and the rental company. Most rental companies contract state you are responsible for the operation of the car, something to do with bailment.

    If both people plead the 5th, the State has no case

    Nope they just go after the one that was the primary signer of the contract. But they can also go after both seeing that legally they can be treated as one.

    You have to be proven guilty by the STATE BEYOND a reasonable doubt.

    I see no reasonable doubt. The car is registered to you and you cannot name the person that was driving so who could it be?

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,592
    The distinction comes from the fact it's legal (in most states) to make a right turn during a red light.

    There is no distinction because the law state that you may turn right on a red light AFTER a complete stop.

    Therefore, right turns are different. I don't understand what is so hard to understand here.

    You're right what is so hard to understand about "AFTER a complete stop".

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,592
    Thank you, you hit the nail square on the head about the need to stop completely. It takes a few seconds at least to see if the road is clear, especially if there are cars at the intersection that would partially block the view. And just like you at least a few times a week I have to either swerve or hit the brakes to keep from hitting some idiot that makes a right turn on red in front of me.

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,928
    You might not like it but thats the way the cookie crunmbles.

    Nah, the cookie crumbles on my side because the LAW is on my side:

    CA VC 40518. Whenever a written Notice to Appear has been issued by a peace officer or by a qualified employee of a law enforcement agency on a form approved by the Judicial Council ... and delivered by mail within 15 days of the alleged violation to the current address of the registered owner of the vehicle on file with the department, with a certificate of mailing obtained as evidence of service ...

    I recall getting that red light camera ticket without certified mail. Since they don't send it via certified mail, they aren't meeting the requirements of a proper notification and accusation for the notice to appear.

    To answer your request:
    VC 21453(a) A driver facing a STEADY circular red signal...
    VC 21452(a) Yellow light...

    The yellow light means only that traffic facing that light is warned a red light will soon follow. It is NOT illegal to deliberately drive through a yellow light.

    Therefore, as long as the front of your vehicle has crossed that limit line prior to the light turning a steady red, you are legally within that intersection and you haven't broken the law in any way, shape, or form.
    '18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,928
    I see no reasonable doubt. The car is registered to you and you cannot name the person that was driving so who could it be?

    I dunno, my long lost cousin from Bolivia, South American? Or it could have been my long lost uncle from some other location halfway across the world. Either way, it's not my job to do the investigative, detective, and evidence research for the State! I don't see my paycheck coming in from the DA's office with that citation! No paycheck, no work!
    '18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,928
    Nope they just go after the one that was the primary signer of the contract. But they can also go after both seeing that legally they can be treated as one.

    That doesn't make any sense. There can only be one driver, and therefore only one person that committed the so-called alleged crime. It's not like a murder where two people could take turns stabbing you to death. Unless you'd argue it's reasonable to assume two people were spooning in the driver's seat while driving!
    '18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,928
    I can have 3 or 4 or even 5 or 6 seconds still rolling slowly through a right turn without having to come to a complete stop and/or impacting traffic movement in any way.

    Your problem isn't with people not coming to a complete stop, but with people that are not properly yielding the right a way to you and having poor judgment of time, distance, and speed. They are also inconsiderate if they don't speed up quickly to make up for their poor speed/distance/time judgment.

    Most of the time I would argue that it wasn't really poor judgment or not recognizing your speed and distance correctly, but simple plain rude behavior and a lack of care or consideration. Then again it could be lack of skills. I by no means advocate impeding traffic, but it doesn't take a complete stop to do a right turn correctly. If anything, rolling through a right turn should enable you to accelerate and reach proper speeds more quickly, thereby lessening the chance (for ultra crazy light footed gas conservers) to impede the flow of traffic.
    '18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • xwesxxwesx Member Posts: 17,680
    I want to avoid being in an accident first, avoid getting the most expensive ticket 2nd, and avoid getting the cheapest ticket last.

    I understand your rationale, and it is valid. As long as no vehicles pull into your path to undermine your plan, all should work out well. If one of those endearing right-turners-who-only-slow-before-turning folks doesn't notice you and pulls in front, though, things might get a little tense if you're actively accelerating your car on the way through the intersection. Again though, that's an equally "rare" event, so the combination of the two (unfamiliar intersection with a last moment stop/go decision to make combined with a right-turner who pulls out in front of you) is extremely unlikely.
    2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 2013 Ford F250 Lariat D, 1976 Ford F250, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100
  • xwesxxwesx Member Posts: 17,680
    [The] problem isn't with people not coming to a complete stop, but with people that are not properly yielding the right a way to you and having poor judgment of time, distance, and speed.

    Are we allowed to offer applause on this forum? :P
    2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 2013 Ford F250 Lariat D, 1976 Ford F250, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    I see this all the time, just saw it again this afternoon. Rush hour traffic on main urban freeway. Congested, but traffic flowing quite well on the two lanes (plus an HOV lane) at around the speed limit (55). Both lanes pretty full however, not much maneuvering room. Doesn't stop some people, however. A youngster in an old Integra coupe decides the flow of traffic is not fast enough for him, so he starts cramming the car ahead of him--which happens to be in the right lane. Which is funny because the left lane is moving faster. Finally he realizes that and zips into the left lane, starts tailgating the car ahead of him--which happens to be me. A few hundred yards up, I have room to move right so I do, and he zips past me... only to be stopped a hundred feet ahead by the congestion. When I exit, I see he is still tailgating the car ahead of him, which really can't go any faster or move over because of the congestion.

    It just boggles the mind. It's RUSH HOUR on an urban freeway, folks. It's not a racetrack or obstacle course. Just go with the flow and everyone will get home safe and sound and with relatively low blood pressure. And your zipping and zagging won't buy you more than a few seconds on your commute. Is it really worth it?
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,411
    I love seeing the lane changers here. Our inane light sequencing always ruins their game.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,411
    And to add to it - people who have an entitlement mind that makes them think oncoming traffic should brake for them.
  • tallman1tallman1 Member Posts: 1,874
    I spent a fair amount of time on the freeway today and there were just some odd drivers out there. Changing lanes right in front of me so that I had to brake, a semi sliding over into my lane so that I had to move over, a gazillion LLC's. Geesh! :sick:
  • tjc78tjc78 Member Posts: 16,942
    Sounds like every day where I live.

    2025 Ram 1500 Laramie 4x4 / 2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic

  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    Ah yes probably. Stuff like that is from cover up, to wink and nod to ...professional courtesy. ;)
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,411
    Gotta remember to put that F.O.P. emblem on the car :shades:

    Sun came out here this afternoon, always fries a lot of brains. I can't see how people can obliviously drive at 10+ under the limit in any lane they please. Do they not see what is going on around them? There was one woman (not even very old, didn't appear to be a new resident either) in a Corolla who would brake for every turn in the road. Insane. Licensing standards need to be completely overhauled.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    It would seem that most highway braking (non rush hour) is either inappropriate or a result of tailgating.
  • euphoniumeuphonium Member Posts: 3,425
    "And to add to it - people who have an entitlement mind that makes them think oncoming traffic should brake for them. "

    Paraphrased: And to add to it - people who have an entitlement mind that makes them think slow traffic should make way for them. :P
  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,928
    Paraphrased: And to add to it - people who have an entitlement mind that makes them think slow traffic should make way for them.

    If you are in the left/fast lane that is what the laws says you must do.... make way for faster traffic. :P
    '18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,928
    :P Tailgating would be impossible if people just got out of the way! Don't they see that I'm more important than they are?
    '18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    That indeed might be a real life take. I have been driving a long time and as circumstances would have a fair number of miles. I am still a bit confounded by a majority of "unnecessary" freeway braking that I see.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,411
    Sorry dude, the law says you have to make way for traffic faster than you when you are in the left lane. You love the laws, right? :shades:
  • loncrayloncray Member Posts: 301
    I've always been of the opinion that slow children should be kept off the street; at least until they're fast enough to avoid the cars....

    What? :P
  • euphoniumeuphonium Member Posts: 3,425
    Another entitlement mindset defends their position while ignoring the Speed Limit sign trumping their Keep Right notices. For every 10 speed signs on I-5 and your 405 mess there might be one Keep Right post. :cry:
  • oregonboyoregonboy Member Posts: 1,650
    edited May 2011
    Someone here seems to be trying to restart the Keep Right vs Left-Lane Camper debate. :surprise:
    What a great idea!! That dead-horse deserves another beating. :sick:
  • euphoniumeuphonium Member Posts: 3,425
    Your super sensitivity enables you to ignore the real issue, "Entitlement/Anarchist" attitudes in driving.

    Defensive driving is motivated by the knowledge of 20% of WA drivers are driving without any financial responsibility. Of that 20%, the majority are believed to be citizens of another country. A good reason to get out of the way of the anarchist speeder. ;)
  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 53,330
    like I taught my son when he was starting out, everyone else on the road is an idiot, and they really are out to get you.

    that, and to try to figure out the stupidest thing another driver could do, because they were likely to do exactly that!

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.

  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,411
    Actually, everyone going faster than you is insane, and everyone going slower is an idiot :shades:
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,411
    No, but that's not how it works. I am not the one who blindly bends over for laws, that's the mindset of others with their false and undefendable moral high ground. If you love laws and defer no matter how stupid they are, then YOU MUST FOLLOW THEM ALL. It's that simple. You must obey everything, or become a hypocrite.

    Speeding to any legitimately dangerous level is difficult on 405 anyway, thanks to idiot slowpokes, LLCs, and general congestion.
  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,928
    The reason I hate LA (well, the main and biggest reason by far) is the freeways themselves, including the 405. I just can't stand how much traffic there always is over there, even at 2 AM.

    The other smaller reason is the Lakers, because I'm a Dallas Mavericks fan, go MAVS, Up 1 game to none!
    '18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,928
    like I taught my son when he was starting out, everyone else on the road is an idiot, and they really are out to get you.

    that, and to try to figure out the stupidest thing another driver could do, because they were likely to do exactly that!


    That is an excellent way to teach new young drivers out there. I recommend it in fact. Let them know that you should expect the worst in people out on the road. Always constantly assume worst case scenarios, because you will be shocked until you gain some experience and see what bad drivers are capable of on the road.
    '18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited May 2011
    The real truth is EVERYONE is really advertising. It is just that most people are not paying attention. Driving life is truly a lot easier, if you pay attention to what drivers are really advertising and/or treat them as if they can do you harm, wacked/wacko, until they show you differently.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,411
    Saw an expensive looking woman driving a Cayenne Turbo this morning, yapping on the phone. There was a cop sitting on his motorcycle on the side of the road. She had a phone to her ear. He didn't bat an eye. I wonder if Joe Sixpack in a 10 year old Corolla would have been treated similarly.

    Saw a taxi make a right turn, unsignalled, from the far left lane. Apparently our new immigrants don't have to be tested at all. Multiculturalism, grand.

    Also saw an Elantra blow a red light and almost get T-Boned by a PT Cruiser...it was close, screeching tires and all.
  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,928
    If I was a cop, I'd probably be inclined to pull over all the expensive looking (at least good looking) women.

    :P

    You got two choices honey!, a date with the court or a date with me tonight baby, what'll it be!
    '18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • tallman1tallman1 Member Posts: 1,874
    You got two choices honey!, a date with the court or a date with me tonight baby, what'll it be!

    We had a cop around here that pulled that. I can't remember if he's been released from prison yet.
  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,928
    http://blog.motorists.org/is-speeding-ever-appropriate/

    I can't believe how closely Eric Peters mirrors my thoughts and ideas exactly. It's like were long lost identical twins. If I was being paid to write articles or blogs, I may have written the exact same article as that linked above.

    On a side note, I think it is appropriate to speed during an emergency or during an accident avoidance manuever, or to help not impede the flow of traffic.
    '18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • euphoniumeuphonium Member Posts: 3,425
    I-5 is plagued with Canadian anarchist truckers. The anarchists wear turbins, hog the center lane during a rainstorm, without having their headlights on, and try to average 75 to 80 mph causing their rain spray to make visibility diminished for the rest of us. They change lanes when they want to and suddenly without any signal while towing a 53' trailer. Having a foreign drivers license, they couldn't care less about getting a ticket in the states. :P

    The only thing to do is to fall back about a mile and then resume hoping another will not arrive.
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