She's gotta keep money flowing in to fund her undeserved high salary and undefendably generous pension somehow. That's what traffic enforcement has boiled down to in most places. These conductors of mock trials should be dragged in front of tribunals and given some justice, themselves.
That's just not true. We'll have to agree to disagree.
It is true, you may disagree but you will be disagreeing with the laws of physics.
Going faster could often help you avoid an accident.
In what universe where the laws of physics as we known them don't apply?
The ability to avoid an accident is in the ability to stop and/or the ability to manuver. However as you increase speed both of these abilities diminish faster than the rate of the increase of speed.
The key is to have the proper following distance to allow for reaction time,
Which is meaningless if something shoots out infront of you or if that idiot make the left turn infront of you, or that moron makes the right turn on red as you enter the intersection of when that deer pops out from the bushes and runs righ infront of you......
Tailgating at 50 MPH for instance, would be much more dangerous than being on that same road all by yourself with no other traffic at 75 MPH.
However being on that road all by yourself at 75 MPH is much more dangerous than being on that same road all by yourself at 50 MPH.
Speed isn't the problem
Speed is the problem, in most cases the other factors wouldn't be factors if excessive speed wasn't there.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
I'm going to try and play devil's advocate to both parties...
The ability to avoid an accident is in the ability to stop and/or the ability to manuver. However as you increase speed both of these abilities diminish faster than the rate of the increase of speed.
Very true. I will agree with this.
Which is meaningless if something shoots out infront of you or if that idiot make the left turn infront of you, or that moron makes the right turn on red as you enter the intersection of when that deer pops out from the bushes and runs righ infront of you......
This can be argued both ways. Going faster or slower here could help you avoid this scenario. You never know when something might happen to jump out in front of you. Going slower, well you might just miss them. But who's to say that by going slower they wouldn't have hit you anyway? Ok, so you hit them. By going slower you will lessen the impact, buy maybe by going just a little faster, you wouldn't have even been in that spot for something to jump out at you. I highly doubt (except for a deer) that a red light runner or idiot left turner is waiting for you to cross paths with them before committing to their act of stupidity. So perhaps by going slightly faster, you're clear of the intersection before they enter, thereby preventing an accident with you. Point is, there is no way to tell when someone is going to commit an act of stupidity and no way base your speed accordingly.
Although you can sometimes, but not always tell when someone is planning to act stupidly just by paying attention to your surrounding and the other drivers. However I would argue here that you wouldn't be "speeding" or trying to push the envelope of how fast you barrel through traffic, but rather going a speed that would allow you to be aware of your surrounding and still allow you enough time to react accordingly.
A deer however, I think does wait by the side of the road for you to come by and then right as you pass him, he will decide its a great time to cross the road and collide with you as he does so. I've witnessed this numerous times, several of which have been with my own vehicle. Here I will admit that going slower is definitely safer. Especially on a dark deserted road where maybe going 75 isn't particularly unsafe. I found that by going slower (usually around 60ish) I was able to spot the deer on the side of the road and prepare for his movement across the road. I found that by going faster on this same stretch of road it was harder to spot the deer and when they did decided to jump out (always at the most inopportune time), it was a very very close call involving screeching brakes and evasive maneuvers and a bit of luck.
However being on that road all by yourself at 75 MPH is much more dangerous than being on that same road all by yourself at 50 MPH.
By your arguing, 50 mph on a road all by yourself is more dangerous than 25 mph. You might as well go 10. But then again, 10 MPH is more dangerous than 1. But being on that road at all is more dangerous than not being there at all. So you might as well not go anywhere. I think situational awareness would be a more appropriate way to base your speed decision here. Which is "more" safe? 50 or 75 mph? 50 for sure, but can you still go 75 mph safely with out more undue risk? I would gather that on a road that you know well, by yourself at 75 mph in good weather would be a "safe" risk to take. Would I take that same road at 75 MPH at night? Perhaps not depending on the area. But being aware of the road and the conditions may warrant that 75 mph would indeed be still safe. Not saying 50 wouldn't be safer, but saying that 75 would still be an acceptable.
It is true, you may disagree but you will be disagreeing with the laws of physics.
The law of physics don't make it necessary to slow down to avoid an accident. Speeding up might do the trick, in which case going faster to begin with could help. (A car can deccelerate much more rapidly than it can accelerate!) Also, hesitation sometimes can cause an accident, going faster might prevent hesitation as you have to go with a decision quickly. A good driver's gut instinct will probably be correct. However being on that road all by yourself at 75 MPH is much more dangerous than being on that same road all by yourself at 50 MPH.
And going 35 MPH would be safer than 50! Going 10 MPH would be safer than 35. At what point do you want there to be a law of diminishing returns? Speed is so miniscule in the grand scheme of things that were better off focusing on better drivers training than on slowing people down.
Which is meaningless if something shoots out infront of you or if that idiot make the left turn infront of you, or that moron makes the right turn on red as you enter the intersection of when that deer pops out from the bushes and runs righ infront of you......
You can see the morons making left and right turns long before they actually do it. You can almost certainly see them coming. You should always assume someone may make a bad driver's decision and have a plan B and C already in mind should they execute a moronic move, or better yet, avoid the situation all together by speeding up and passing their turn area before they get there!
A deer from the bushes? Don't get too many deer here in San Diego. Frankly, most people are better off hitting an animal rather than attempting an irrational swerve, too many people are guilty of killing humans (including themselves) to save a deer, or worse yet, a rabit, turtle, dog, cat, squirrel, mouse, rat, you name it.
Again, going too fast may make ANY reaction impossible, and often, no reaction is the best reaction for that; even at 50 MPH.
'18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
It's been quiet the past few days so here's my rant for the day:
Why when people drive with their lights on during the day do they insist on driving with their hi-beams on? I noticed at least 3 people today doing that. Clear sunny day too. It's almost as bad as the pulsing hi-lo-beam motorcycle crowd.
It's the MIDDLE of the day. You don't drive in traffic with your hi-beams on at night, why would you do it during the day? I don't care if you decide that you need your lights on, but at least turn off your hi-beams.
You can't see the brights indicator on the instrument panel in daylight on my van. So unless someone flashes me, I could drive for hours without knowing my brights are on. The switch is a stick on the column and it just flips back to the original position when you go from dims to brights, so that doesn't help.
Do you live in Seattle? I saw like 3 Tacomas and Tundras over the weekend with high beams on, must be something about those. But I think some people actually pay such poor attention to their dashboards that they never notice the indicators - these are the same people who blindly pull in front of traffic from side streets and back out of spaces without looking.
When I drive my wife's car (which is not that often) I notice sometimes the turn signal stick is in the "high beams on" position. Since there's no need to deliberately do that near our home, which is in a well-lighted urban area, I have to surmise that it's easy to accidentally flick the switch to high-beams mode when using the turn signal switch. It does seem easy to push forward (to turn on the high beams). And it isn't easy to see the high-beams lamp in daylight.
So I am prone to give the folks who drive around in daylight with high beams on a break. It's not like it's going to blind me. However, I don't appreciate it when folks drive around at night with high beams on when they should not be on. Then they should notice the high beam indicator lamp. If they were paying any attention to their instruments. Which I suspect many folks don't.
easy to accidentally flick the switch to high-beams mode when using the turn signal switch.
That's my only saving grace on the van. When I use the turn signals I can tell when they are pushed forward in the high beam mode. But on the highway I may turn the lights on with the separate dial switch on the dash and not notice that the lights are on high.
Old joke, and I didn't make it up, so don't blame me for the blonde reference:
NHTSA is considering moving the high-beam switch in all vehicles sold in USA from the stalk back to the foot button on the driver's side floorboard. The reason? Too many blondes getting their feet tangled up in the steering wheel.
I had some jackass on a bicycle blast right through a 4-way stop, almost run into me, and then yell at me like it was my fault.
It was a busy 4-way stop signed intersection. As it's my turn to go (I'm making a left turn), just as i'm starting to pull into the intersection, I see some guy on a bike come flying through the intersection from my left side without even slowing down. I think he assumed that I was just going to wait for him to blow the intersection, and then go (and mind you it was busy - with two lanes going in all directions - so not a small intersection).
Anyways, he skids his bike sideways and screams some unintelligible profanity at me. I love how some of these bicyclists like to selectively choose what rules of the road they should obey, and when they should obey them.
Anyone else ever wish they could just run one these jerks over??? Dang that pesky law... Ha ha ha!!!
The law of physics don't make it necessary to slow down to avoid an accident.
The law of physics do state that it is much easier to avoid an accident if one is going slower. Remember that as one goes faster the distance to stop increases faster that speed increases. Also the faster one goes the harder it is to deviate from a straight line.
A car can deccelerate much more rapidly than it can accelerate!
And rather immaterial to the discussion at hand.
Also, hesitation sometimes can cause an accident, going faster might prevent hesitation as you have to go with a decision quickly.
Poor argument as going slower would allow for not only hesitation but time for the driver to make a better decision. Also going faster does not make one a quicker thinker and if you have to make a decision quicker the more likely you are to make the wrong decision.
A good driver's gut instinct will probably be correct.
Just remember driving fast does not make a good driver.
And going 35 MPH would be safer than 50!
So are you now admitting that driving faster is not safer?
Going 10 MPH would be safer than 35.
Actually the studies I have read suggest that as far as serious accidents are concerned once you drop below a certain speed (around 40MPH give or take) the risk doesn't change nearly as dramatically as it does above that set speed.
At what point do you want there to be a law of diminishing returns?
Two things. 1.) there is a trade off between safety and effciency. One has to weigh the risks of increases in speed with the benefits of it. 2.) one must understand the risks and act accordingly. I trust someone who is driving at 75 MPH with the attitude and knowledge that going faster is more dangerous would be a better and safer driver than one who is driving at 75 MPH under the same conditions thinking that it doesn't matter how fast you go.
You can see the morons making left and right turns long before they actually do it.
Oh you can see through that truck waiting to make the left turn and see that little sports car hiding behind it thats about to pull right out. You can read the mind of that driver in the oncoming lane waiting to make the left turn? You can see through the parked cars and see that kid running out from between them before anyone else can? So you can see that deer hidden in the bush just about to jump out infront of you? So you can see the idiot doing 100 MPH about to blow though the intersection? You can see around curves, corners and walls?
A deer from the bushes? Don't get too many deer here in San Diego.
We have plenty of them here in Chicago, every now and again I see one run across my path, I know a few that have hit deer here. They can do a number on your front end. Heck I almost hit a coyote about a mile or so from the downtown business distric of Chicago.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Many years ago one fine winters day I was getting in my car and my coat pocket caught the stalk breaking it off and setting the headlights to high beam. Couldn't awitch them to low beam (or use my turn signals for that matter) for a couple of days until my mechanic could replace it.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
I liked the floor switches. The majority of my vehicles have that, along with a single steering wheel stalk that operates the turn signals. My, how simple things were in yesteryears.
2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 2013 Ford F250 Lariat D, 1976 Ford F250, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100
I'm surprised that your switch works the half of the year when you need the lights the most. How do your bunny boots reach the switch with all that frozen snow and ice piled on the floorboards anyway? :P
The law of physics do state that it is much easier to avoid an accident if one is going slower. Remember that as one goes faster the distance to stop increases faster that speed increases.
Your assumption is incorrect and therefore your statement is immaterial to the discussion at hand. Your statement is only correct when you add in the extremely special circumstance whereby the situation ONLY allows that stopping is the only way to avoid the accident. That is not the case in real life. Stopping is only required if you have no other alternative; of which there are usually many!
So are you now admitting that driving faster is not safer?
No, just demonstrating how the going slower is safer argument is ridiculous as we can all just stay home and sit on the couch at 0 MPH and be the SAFEST possible. In the real world the slower drivers are the more dangerous drivers as they more frequently get in accidents.
Since rear-end collisions are one of the most commonly ocurring types of accidents, this makes perfect sense. You can't rear-end the jack rabbit unless you can catch him!
'18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
My old rigs have this thing called a heater, and it actually keeps the cab *just* warm enough to melt snow on the floor. So there. And, bunny boots are perfect for floor switches.
2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 2013 Ford F250 Lariat D, 1976 Ford F250, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100
Yeah, winter has finally arrived! This is our first week of snow on the ground, so people are acting like it is their first experience with it, but all should be settling in within the next couple weeks.
You'll be joining us (in winter) soon enough....!
2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 2013 Ford F250 Lariat D, 1976 Ford F250, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100
Nope it is a basic concept in physics. As you increase speed stopping distance increases by the square if the increase of speed. Hence if you double your speed your stopping distance increases 4 times.
only correct when you add in the extremely special circumstance whereby the situation ONLY allows that stopping is the only way to avoid the accident.
I wouldn't say that stopping being the only way to avoid an accident is an extremely special circumstance, I would say that it is a common circumstance. Many times deveating from a straight line would result in a different accident especially in heavy rush hour type traffic.
However you forgot the rest of the argument, going faster reduces your ability to change course. So going faster would mean one might not be able to manuever fast enough in an emergency situation.
No, just demonstrating how the going slower is safer argument is ridiculous
Well we live in a free country, you have the right to be wrong. fact of the matter is that increasing speed does increase risk.
Since rear-end collisions are one of the most commonly ocurring types of accidents, this makes perfect sense.
Sorry it doesn't make perfect sense. If going faster reduces your chances of getting rearended it would increase your odds of rearendng someone.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Today's winner - woman who I won't describe too much, but she's probably a recent arrival. Driving a white Lexus RX with commercial plates. She approaches a "Y" intersection and turns right (as I am, of course), and comes to a stop. No stop sign, no yield sign, no pedestrians. Then she gets up to 23 in a 35. Luckily the road widened, so I was able to go around. She was sitting about 3" from the steering wheel. Absolutely zero situational awareness, oblivious. Licensing standards really need to be changed - if you grew up in a place where you had zero exposure to motoring, you shouldn't be able to take the same already dumbed down tests. This idiocy is constant in this region.
Sorry it doesn't make perfect sense. If going faster reduces your chances of getting rearended it would increase your odds of rearendng someone.
Again, 100% wrong. Only bad drivers rearend people and cars. Good drivers don't rear-end other objects. Hence, why good drivers may not be able to avoid "not at fault accidents" but can always avoid "at-fault accidents." The term "accident" is really a misnomer for 99% of the accidents "out there." A lightning bolt, a blown tire, an invisible deer running out in front of you at the perfectly wrong time just doesn't happen very often to the point of causing an accident. Even most blown tires can be safely dealt with if one does not panic.
Well we live in a free country, you have the right to be wrong. fact of the matter is that increasing speed does increase risk.
Risks regarding the severity of impact, yes. Risks of getting into an accident, no. Basically it comes down to odds. You go fast you are less likely to be in an accident, but if one does happen, it is more likely to be severe. You go slow, you will be in all kinds of accidents, but they are more likely to be minor.
Being a math guy, I bet on the long shot not happening, since I only can live up to about 100 years in my lifetime. Now if life expectancy was 1,000 years, that might change my math regarding the risks of driving.
'18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
Gotta look at material from surveillance grid nanny states like Oz and the UK with a grain of salt - the latter already has cameras everywhere and still doesn't have the safest roads.
1) Its not based in this country, and driving habits, skills, and teachings do differ from region to region, let alone country to country.
2) Quote from the report "The first studies date from the 1960 and 1970s in the United States. They found the both the faster driver and the slower driver had a higher risk of being involved in an accident. This was known as the U-curve speed-accident relationship."
The U curve is INDEED a fact of nature and physics (due to speed variability) but what recent studies I've seen show is the bottom of the "U" is at +5 to +10 or so MPH above the average speed. Therefore, the safest drivers are the ones that go slightly to moderately above average speeds.
3) The report takes into account urban and rural roads/highways, which is the minority of driving in CA. Most of my miles are spent on freeways, with 4 or more lanes, so the data is irrelevant for freeways. That being said, look at how flat the curve for the rural "higher" speed road was in comparison to the urban one! WOW!
4) See #2 and re-read.
'18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
So perhaps by going slightly faster, you're clear of the intersection before they enter, thereby preventing an accident with you.
Within last few weeks came upon an accident scene while on a numbered 2-lane US Route at a crossroad in a semi-rural area. Crossroad had stop signs. Police had all traffic blocked. Turns out a pickup ran the stop sign and T-boned a Cavalier in drivers side. Woman driver died.
US Route speed limit was 45. If she had been going a little faster, she might have cleared the intersection before the pickup. If she had been going slower, pickup would have passed in front of her. If she had been going the same speed and eye scanning the intersection left and right before her approach, she probably could have avoided the accident.
How many people driving on through roads, highways with right-of-way even BOTHER to scan crossroads and side roads before they approach looking for traffic (that might not stop)?
How many people driving on through roads, highways with right-of-way even BOTHER to scan crossroads and side roads before they approach looking for traffic (that might not stop)?
I know I do. So the count starts at ONE here, feel free to add onto that!
I have to say, I've never once slowed down or stopped where it mattered; meaning no one has run a red light or stop sign on me where my noticing it or not noticing it would have made any difference. That experience won't keep me from looking for the first one that will in the future though.
Best thing to do in a situation where your not sure someone is going to yield the right of way is to clear the point of conflict before it becomes an issue. If he runs that red light, let them hit someone behind you, but not you!
'18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
Another slow winner today, this one a woman in a recently plated black Tucson who got alongside a crawling (maybe 30 in a 40) Prius and then decided to match its speed as they both held up a good 15 cars on a busy suburban road. Eventually she slowed down to even slower than the Prius, and people were able to go around the wheeled pylons.
Also almost got hit by a woman driving a minivan while I was in a crosswalk...it's crazy how many don't look right when turning right. My hand made good contact with her vehicle anyway.
To answer the last question, probably just under the amount who don't have the right of way but still don't look. I believe people who blindly pull in front of others mostly aren't doing it to annoy - they simply can't think ahead.
Yes, we know that the only driving done in the world is in the USA. :P
We also know that everyone always drives on rural high speed roads, not in urban areas.
Just as we know the Tooth Fairy lives!
I have an idea: let's have all drivers drive at the top speed of their vehicles for one day. To test your premise that faster is safer. Care to venture a guess as to how that will work? Should result in a significant reduction in accidents, yes? Let's make it extra fun and schedule it for January.
I've had that happen. I pounded on the side of the vehicle as it drove past. The look on the guy's face and the slam of the brakes was priceless. When he saw me he had this mortified look all over his face. I just glared and hollered at him to watch where he was going.
Hahah; I was walking (in a crosswalk) across a large road many years ago (I think I was 22 or 23 at the time), when a vehicle pulled up to the intersection and stopped fully across the crosswalk. It was this low-slung sporty car, so I just casually hopped up, walked across the hood, and right back down onto the road without ever missing a beat. Other than a horn, I didn't hear a peep out of that driver and didn't bother looking back, so my hope is that is one driver that doesn't do that anymore. :P
2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 2013 Ford F250 Lariat D, 1976 Ford F250, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100
I usually carry keys in my left hand when a jog, to jingle and alert oblivious pedestrians that I am coming (and I am not exactly petite)...I suppose the key could be used against offending vehicles, too :shades: I often do yell or give hand gestures to those who don't understand how crosswalks work, or who blindly pull through sidewalks.
A couple of typical locals this afternoon. First a Mini that quickly slowed to a near crawl on an on-ramp - this is a dumb ramp with two lanes merging right before it meets the highway. I was keeping an eye out to see that if Subaru coming up on the right was going to get in front of me or drop behind, and had to brake hard because of the Mini. Subaru had to really brake hard.
Then on an off-ramp got behind an old 626 going about 25 (yellow sign 35) gas door open, dawdling along. Had 4 cars close behind me by the time the ramp ended.
I was inconsiderate in the opinion of some today, as I broke the speed limit by a fair amount. Some kids in one of those Subaru El Caminos (cooler name than Baja) pulled up beside me and started gesturing at me like they wanted to race. As it was a hood scooped turbo model I thought that was their intention - but they just wanted to see my car take off fast. When the light turned green, I obliged, and healthily exceeded the limit while the car made lots of nice noise, and the kids gave me a thumbs up. Empty straight road, no harm done.
heading up a lane in a parking lot today, and some dude in an SUV (explorer or expedition) in the last spot (handicapped, in case it matters!) decides to back out. Did not seem to matter that I was quickly approaching.
so, I hit the brakes and stop just before his spot, on the drivers side, but he still seemed oblivious, and kept backing, including turning so that he was backing straight at my front end.
managed to get into reverse quickly and backed up enough so he didn't hit me, but the driver never seemed to realize I was there, even after I gave the horn a workout. Dope.
Backing out of a parking space in a busy parking lot one of my least favorite things in the world. You have to somehow look in 3 directions at once. Also I drive sedans, so there's usually a vehicle next to me (SUV, pickup, van) blocking my view. So I back out VERY slowly, twisting my head in all directions as much as it can (it's not as agile as it used to be). What I really hate is the idiots who blast through parking lots as if they were freeways and they're the only vehicle on the freeway. They can often see someone backing out before the backer sees them. So I always appreciate it when an oncoming car waits patiently for me to back up until it's clear to them that I see them, and have stopped, then they move forward. And if my car gets too close to them before I see them, a little tap on the horn works wonders.
Some drivers in my town had trouble with turns today. First, I almost got my left front bumper taken off by a pickup turning left onto the road I was on, and I was turning right. Fortunately, I was way over near the curb (city street, unmarked lanes) because this truck was more in the left lane of the road he turned onto than the right lane. Maybe the fact he did the turn with one hand, the other hand clasping a cell phone that he was yakking into, was part of the problem.
A little later, I was stopped at a stoplight on a road with 3 lanes in each direction, with the leftmost lane being the left turn lane. I was in the middle lane. There was a middle-aged woman in a Buick in the oncoming left turn lane. The light changed; there was no left turn arrow, so I proceeded across the intersection. The Buick started moving forward. A little voice told me, "She isn't going to stop", so I took my foot off the gas and moved it over the brake. Sure enough, she continued her left turn. I hit the brakes, and also the horn. She gave me a little wave as she finished her turn.
Then I was almost home, about to turn left onto my home street, when I saw an old Malibu waiting to turn left onto the street I was on. I had signaled and was quite close to the intersection, so I figured he was going to let me complete my turn, as he had the stop sign and I had the right of way. Nope. He turned right in front of me, so I had to hit the brakes... the horn also of course. Then he stopped dead in the middle of the 4-lane road he had just turned onto, as if my horn had disabled his car. I thought, "If you're in such an all-fired hurry to go, then GO for gosh sakes!" A minute later I was home. I didn't venture out the rest of the day.
never hurt to have a little fun like that once in a while and when I was a kid I loved it when someone who drove a car like yours that could make nice motor sounds and do things like that obliged. It induced the same type of thrill we would get when traveling down the freeway and we'd get the truckers to toot their air horns.
Had a lady early in the morning drive in front of me taking a u-turn. I was approaching a T-intersection with a stop sign on my side of the street allowing me to go either left or right. I was going right so I was in the right half of the street making my way down a residential street.
I see her in a big Ford truck take a left run onto my street, then proceed to keep turning left as if attemping a U-turn (probably illegal, but there is no "no u-turn sign" so I can't say for sure). I do know that it is a bad idea to try and make a U-turn so close to the intersection.
My problem was with the fact that she thought I was going to yield my right of way. I just kept going towards my stop sign so I could complete my right turn. She kept going and crept into my lane. Finally after the game of chicken she finally stopped just as I was about to hit my brakes and looked at me and raised her hand as if to say "what the hell?" I did the same, raised my hand, and basically said "what the hell?" How am I supposed to know she was going to do a u-turn in that poorly chosen spot.
Furthermore, with any u-turn, you have to yield to traffic. I was traffic. LOL.
Maybe she thought because she was in a big hulking Ford truck and I was in a little A3 Audi I'd lose the game of chicken. She lost; all of one car length as she got onto the freeway a block later right behind me. :sick:
'18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
Comments
It is true, you may disagree but you will be disagreeing with the laws of physics.
Going faster could often help you avoid an accident.
In what universe where the laws of physics as we known them don't apply?
The ability to avoid an accident is in the ability to stop and/or the ability to manuver. However as you increase speed both of these abilities diminish faster than the rate of the increase of speed.
The key is to have the proper following distance to allow for reaction time,
Which is meaningless if something shoots out infront of you or if that idiot make the left turn infront of you, or that moron makes the right turn on red as you enter the intersection of when that deer pops out from the bushes and runs righ infront of you......
Tailgating at 50 MPH for instance, would be much more dangerous than being on that same road all by yourself with no other traffic at 75 MPH.
However being on that road all by yourself at 75 MPH is much more dangerous than being on that same road all by yourself at 50 MPH.
Speed isn't the problem
Speed is the problem, in most cases the other factors wouldn't be factors if excessive speed wasn't there.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
The ability to avoid an accident is in the ability to stop and/or the ability to manuver. However as you increase speed both of these abilities diminish faster than the rate of the increase of speed.
Very true. I will agree with this.
Which is meaningless if something shoots out infront of you or if that idiot make the left turn infront of you, or that moron makes the right turn on red as you enter the intersection of when that deer pops out from the bushes and runs righ infront of you......
This can be argued both ways. Going faster or slower here could help you avoid this scenario. You never know when something might happen to jump out in front of you. Going slower, well you might just miss them. But who's to say that by going slower they wouldn't have hit you anyway? Ok, so you hit them. By going slower you will lessen the impact, buy maybe by going just a little faster, you wouldn't have even been in that spot for something to jump out at you. I highly doubt (except for a deer) that a red light runner or idiot left turner is waiting for you to cross paths with them before committing to their act of stupidity. So perhaps by going slightly faster, you're clear of the intersection before they enter, thereby preventing an accident with you. Point is, there is no way to tell when someone is going to commit an act of stupidity and no way base your speed accordingly.
Although you can sometimes, but not always tell when someone is planning to act stupidly just by paying attention to your surrounding and the other drivers. However I would argue here that you wouldn't be "speeding" or trying to push the envelope of how fast you barrel through traffic, but rather going a speed that would allow you to be aware of your surrounding and still allow you enough time to react accordingly.
A deer however, I think does wait by the side of the road for you to come by and then right as you pass him, he will decide its a great time to cross the road and collide with you as he does so. I've witnessed this numerous times, several of which have been with my own vehicle. Here I will admit that going slower is definitely safer. Especially on a dark deserted road where maybe going 75 isn't particularly unsafe. I found that by going slower (usually around 60ish) I was able to spot the deer on the side of the road and prepare for his movement across the road. I found that by going faster on this same stretch of road it was harder to spot the deer and when they did decided to jump out (always at the most inopportune time), it was a very very close call involving screeching brakes and evasive maneuvers and a bit of luck.
However being on that road all by yourself at 75 MPH is much more dangerous than being on that same road all by yourself at 50 MPH.
By your arguing, 50 mph on a road all by yourself is more dangerous than 25 mph. You might as well go 10. But then again, 10 MPH is more dangerous than 1. But being on that road at all is more dangerous than not being there at all. So you might as well not go anywhere. I think situational awareness would be a more appropriate way to base your speed decision here. Which is "more" safe? 50 or 75 mph? 50 for sure, but can you still go 75 mph safely with out more undue risk? I would gather that on a road that you know well, by yourself at 75 mph in good weather would be a "safe" risk to take. Would I take that same road at 75 MPH at night? Perhaps not depending on the area. But being aware of the road and the conditions may warrant that 75 mph would indeed be still safe. Not saying 50 wouldn't be safer, but saying that 75 would still be an acceptable.
The law of physics don't make it necessary to slow down to avoid an accident. Speeding up might do the trick, in which case going faster to begin with could help. (A car can deccelerate much more rapidly than it can accelerate!) Also, hesitation sometimes can cause an accident, going faster might prevent hesitation as you have to go with a decision quickly. A good driver's gut instinct will probably be correct.
However being on that road all by yourself at 75 MPH is much more dangerous than being on that same road all by yourself at 50 MPH.
And going 35 MPH would be safer than 50! Going 10 MPH would be safer than 35. At what point do you want there to be a law of diminishing returns? Speed is so miniscule in the grand scheme of things that were better off focusing on better drivers training than on slowing people down.
Which is meaningless if something shoots out infront of you or if that idiot make the left turn infront of you, or that moron makes the right turn on red as you enter the intersection of when that deer pops out from the bushes and runs righ infront of you......
You can see the morons making left and right turns long before they actually do it. You can almost certainly see them coming. You should always assume someone may make a bad driver's decision and have a plan B and C already in mind should they execute a moronic move, or better yet, avoid the situation all together by speeding up and passing their turn area before they get there!
A deer from the bushes? Don't get too many deer here in San Diego. Frankly, most people are better off hitting an animal rather than attempting an irrational swerve, too many people are guilty of killing humans (including themselves) to save a deer, or worse yet, a rabit, turtle, dog, cat, squirrel, mouse, rat, you name it.
Again, going too fast may make ANY reaction impossible, and often, no reaction is the best reaction for that; even at 50 MPH.
Why when people drive with their lights on during the day do they insist on driving with their hi-beams on? I noticed at least 3 people today doing that. Clear sunny day too. It's almost as bad as the pulsing hi-lo-beam motorcycle crowd.
It's the MIDDLE of the day. You don't drive in traffic with your hi-beams on at night, why would you do it during the day? I don't care if you decide that you need your lights on, but at least turn off your hi-beams.
Ok, rant over.
Not an excuse, but that's one explanation.
2025 Ram 1500 Laramie 4x4 / 2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic
So I am prone to give the folks who drive around in daylight with high beams on a break. It's not like it's going to blind me. However, I don't appreciate it when folks drive around at night with high beams on when they should not be on. Then they should notice the high beam indicator lamp. If they were paying any attention to their instruments. Which I suspect many folks don't.
That's my only saving grace on the van. When I use the turn signals I can tell when they are pushed forward in the high beam mode. But on the highway I may turn the lights on with the separate dial switch on the dash and not notice that the lights are on high.
Dang, we're showing our age.
NHTSA is considering moving the high-beam switch in all vehicles sold in USA from the stalk back to the foot button on the driver's side floorboard.
The reason? Too many blondes getting their feet tangled up in the steering wheel.
It was a busy 4-way stop signed intersection. As it's my turn to go (I'm making a left turn), just as i'm starting to pull into the intersection, I see some guy on a bike come flying through the intersection from my left side without even slowing down. I think he assumed that I was just going to wait for him to blow the intersection, and then go (and mind you it was busy - with two lanes going in all directions - so not a small intersection).
Anyways, he skids his bike sideways and screams some unintelligible profanity at me. I love how some of these bicyclists like to selectively choose what rules of the road they should obey, and when they should obey them.
Anyone else ever wish they could just run one these jerks over??? Dang that pesky law... Ha ha ha!!!
The law of physics do state that it is much easier to avoid an accident if one is going slower. Remember that as one goes faster the distance to stop increases faster that speed increases. Also the faster one goes the harder it is to deviate from a straight line.
A car can deccelerate much more rapidly than it can accelerate!
And rather immaterial to the discussion at hand.
Also, hesitation sometimes can cause an accident, going faster might prevent hesitation as you have to go with a decision quickly.
Poor argument as going slower would allow for not only hesitation but time for the driver to make a better decision. Also going faster does not make one a quicker thinker and if you have to make a decision quicker the more likely you are to make the wrong decision.
A good driver's gut instinct will probably be correct.
Just remember driving fast does not make a good driver.
And going 35 MPH would be safer than 50!
So are you now admitting that driving faster is not safer?
Going 10 MPH would be safer than 35.
Actually the studies I have read suggest that as far as serious accidents are concerned once you drop below a certain speed (around 40MPH give or take) the risk doesn't change nearly as dramatically as it does above that set speed.
At what point do you want there to be a law of diminishing returns?
Two things. 1.) there is a trade off between safety and effciency. One has to weigh the risks of increases in speed with the benefits of it. 2.) one must understand the risks and act accordingly. I trust someone who is driving at 75 MPH with the attitude and knowledge that going faster is more dangerous would be a better and safer driver than one who is driving at 75 MPH under the same conditions thinking that it doesn't matter how fast you go.
You can see the morons making left and right turns long before they actually do it.
Oh you can see through that truck waiting to make the left turn and see that little sports car hiding behind it thats about to pull right out. You can read the mind of that driver in the oncoming lane waiting to make the left turn? You can see through the parked cars and see that kid running out from between them before anyone else can? So you can see that deer hidden in the bush just about to jump out infront of you? So you can see the idiot doing 100 MPH about to blow though the intersection? You can see around curves, corners and walls?
A deer from the bushes? Don't get too many deer here in San Diego.
We have plenty of them here in Chicago, every now and again I see one run across my path, I know a few that have hit deer here. They can do a number on your front end. Heck I almost hit a coyote about a mile or so from the downtown business distric of Chicago.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Your assumption is incorrect and therefore your statement is immaterial to the discussion at hand. Your statement is only correct when you add in the extremely special circumstance whereby the situation ONLY allows that stopping is the only way to avoid the accident. That is not the case in real life. Stopping is only required if you have no other alternative; of which there are usually many!
So are you now admitting that driving faster is not safer?
No, just demonstrating how the going slower is safer argument is ridiculous as we can all just stay home and sit on the couch at 0 MPH and be the SAFEST possible. In the real world the slower drivers are the more dangerous drivers as they more frequently get in accidents.
Since rear-end collisions are one of the most commonly ocurring types of accidents, this makes perfect sense. You can't rear-end the jack rabbit unless you can catch him!
My old rigs have this thing called a heater, and it actually keeps the cab *just* warm enough to melt snow on the floor. So there. And, bunny boots are perfect for floor switches.
I don't want to hear from the Arizona crowd. :shades:
You'll be joining us (in winter) soon enough....!
Snow and rain mixed forecast for tonight. Time to get the Subaru out of the corner of the garage I guess.
Nope it is a basic concept in physics. As you increase speed stopping distance increases by the square if the increase of speed. Hence if you double your speed your stopping distance increases 4 times.
only correct when you add in the extremely special circumstance whereby the situation ONLY allows that stopping is the only way to avoid the accident.
I wouldn't say that stopping being the only way to avoid an accident is an extremely special circumstance, I would say that it is a common circumstance. Many times deveating from a straight line would result in a different accident especially in heavy rush hour type traffic.
However you forgot the rest of the argument, going faster reduces your ability to change course. So going faster would mean one might not be able to manuever fast enough in an emergency situation.
No, just demonstrating how the going slower is safer argument is ridiculous
Well we live in a free country, you have the right to be wrong. fact of the matter is that increasing speed does increase risk.
Since rear-end collisions are one of the most commonly ocurring types of accidents, this makes perfect sense.
Sorry it doesn't make perfect sense. If going faster reduces your chances of getting rearended it would increase your odds of rearendng someone.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
It always amazes me that almost every vehicle in the ditch after a winter storm is either AWD or 4WD.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Again, 100% wrong. Only bad drivers rearend people and cars. Good drivers don't rear-end other objects. Hence, why good drivers may not be able to avoid "not at fault accidents" but can always avoid "at-fault accidents." The term "accident" is really a misnomer for 99% of the accidents "out there." A lightning bolt, a blown tire, an invisible deer running out in front of you at the perfectly wrong time just doesn't happen very often to the point of causing an accident. Even most blown tires can be safely dealt with if one does not panic.
Well we live in a free country, you have the right to be wrong. fact of the matter is that increasing speed does increase risk.
Risks regarding the severity of impact, yes. Risks of getting into an accident, no. Basically it comes down to odds. You go fast you are less likely to be in an accident, but if one does happen, it is more likely to be severe. You go slow, you will be in all kinds of accidents, but they are more likely to be minor.
Being a math guy, I bet on the long shot not happening, since I only can live up to about 100 years in my lifetime. Now if life expectancy was 1,000 years, that might change my math regarding the risks of driving.
http://ec.europa.eu/transport/wcm/road_safety/erso/knowledge/Content/20_speed/sp- eed_and_accident_risk.htm
1) Its not based in this country, and driving habits, skills, and teachings do differ from region to region, let alone country to country.
2) Quote from the report "The first studies date from the 1960 and 1970s in the United States. They found the both the faster driver and the slower driver had a higher risk of being involved in an accident. This was known as the U-curve speed-accident relationship."
The U curve is INDEED a fact of nature and physics (due to speed variability) but what recent studies I've seen show is the bottom of the "U" is at +5 to +10 or so MPH above the average speed. Therefore, the safest drivers are the ones that go slightly to moderately above average speeds.
3) The report takes into account urban and rural roads/highways, which is the minority of driving in CA. Most of my miles are spent on freeways, with 4 or more lanes, so the data is irrelevant for freeways. That being said, look at how flat the curve for the rural "higher" speed road was in comparison to the urban one! WOW!
4) See #2 and re-read.
Within last few weeks came upon an accident scene while on a numbered 2-lane US Route at a crossroad in a semi-rural area. Crossroad had stop signs. Police had all traffic blocked. Turns out a pickup ran the stop sign and T-boned a Cavalier in drivers side. Woman driver died.
US Route speed limit was 45. If she had been going a little faster, she might have cleared the intersection before the pickup. If she had been going slower, pickup would have passed in front of her. If she had been going the same speed and eye scanning the intersection left and right before her approach, she probably could have avoided the accident.
How many people driving on through roads, highways with right-of-way even BOTHER to scan crossroads and side roads before they approach looking for traffic (that might not stop)?
I know I do. So the count starts at ONE here, feel free to add onto that!
I have to say, I've never once slowed down or stopped where it mattered; meaning no one has run a red light or stop sign on me where my noticing it or not noticing it would have made any difference. That experience won't keep me from looking for the first one that will in the future though.
Best thing to do in a situation where your not sure someone is going to yield the right of way is to clear the point of conflict before it becomes an issue. If he runs that red light, let them hit someone behind you, but not you!
Also almost got hit by a woman driving a minivan while I was in a crosswalk...it's crazy how many don't look right when turning right. My hand made good contact with her vehicle anyway.
We also know that everyone always drives on rural high speed roads, not in urban areas.
Just as we know the Tooth Fairy lives!
I have an idea: let's have all drivers drive at the top speed of their vehicles for one day. To test your premise that faster is safer. Care to venture a guess as to how that will work? Should result in a significant reduction in accidents, yes? Let's make it extra fun and schedule it for January.
Then on an off-ramp got behind an old 626 going about 25 (yellow sign 35) gas door open, dawdling along. Had 4 cars close behind me by the time the ramp ended.
so, I hit the brakes and stop just before his spot, on the drivers side, but he still seemed oblivious, and kept backing, including turning so that he was backing straight at my front end.
managed to get into reverse quickly and backed up enough so he didn't hit me, but the driver never seemed to realize I was there, even after I gave the horn a workout. Dope.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
A little later, I was stopped at a stoplight on a road with 3 lanes in each direction, with the leftmost lane being the left turn lane. I was in the middle lane. There was a middle-aged woman in a Buick in the oncoming left turn lane. The light changed; there was no left turn arrow, so I proceeded across the intersection. The Buick started moving forward. A little voice told me, "She isn't going to stop", so I took my foot off the gas and moved it over the brake. Sure enough, she continued her left turn. I hit the brakes, and also the horn. She gave me a little wave as she finished her turn.
Then I was almost home, about to turn left onto my home street, when I saw an old Malibu waiting to turn left onto the street I was on. I had signaled and was quite close to the intersection, so I figured he was going to let me complete my turn, as he had the stop sign and I had the right of way. Nope. He turned right in front of me, so I had to hit the brakes... the horn also of course. Then he stopped dead in the middle of the 4-lane road he had just turned onto, as if my horn had disabled his car. I thought, "If you're in such an all-fired hurry to go, then GO for gosh sakes!" A minute later I was home. I didn't venture out the rest of the day.
I see her in a big Ford truck take a left run onto my street, then proceed to keep turning left as if attemping a U-turn (probably illegal, but there is no "no u-turn sign" so I can't say for sure). I do know that it is a bad idea to try and make a U-turn so close to the intersection.
My problem was with the fact that she thought I was going to yield my right of way. I just kept going towards my stop sign so I could complete my right turn. She kept going and crept into my lane. Finally after the game of chicken she finally stopped just as I was about to hit my brakes and looked at me and raised her hand as if to say "what the hell?" I did the same, raised my hand, and basically said "what the hell?" How am I supposed to know she was going to do a u-turn in that poorly chosen spot.
Furthermore, with any u-turn, you have to yield to traffic. I was traffic. LOL.
Maybe she thought because she was in a big hulking Ford truck and I was in a little A3 Audi I'd lose the game of chicken. She lost; all of one car length as she got onto the freeway a block later right behind me. :sick: