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Honda Odyssey vs Dodge/Chrysler minivans
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A week or so after purchase I noticed a small oil leak under the van. Took to a different dealer for service and they had to replace the power stearing rack and realign the front end. Got van home and another leak developed, this time the dealer had to replace the timing chain cover which the dealer said was not cast correctly. This took a week. I also had the roof rack replaced because of excess noise.
Van seems fine now and we love the way it drives and the creature comforts that are standard. Just sucks that so much has gone wrong already. I wanted to be one of those very pleased type Chrysler owners but so far that has not happened. Maybe in the long run.
Honda Ody. was not practical for us with having three small children all in child seats. Magic seat would never be used unless we left a kid. Split rear seat just made more sense.
Honda made the magic seat for WUSSIES who don't have the strenth to roll out a seat once a year.
Flip the Odyssey "Magic Seat" to haul those dozen sheets home from Home Depot each week. Set the temperature independently for driver, front passenger, rear passengers in the Chrysler and listen to a quality stereo while sitting in the leather lap of luxury and enjoy the padded armrests on the doors.
Enquiring folks want to know!
IS THIS THE SEAT EVERYONE HAS BEEN RAVING ABOUT?
And all this time I thought everyone was raving about Odyssey's built-in road noise amplifier.
They're the ones with J C Whitney gold card's for all the do-it-yourself options. ;-)
Go with the Windstar if "safety" is your #1 concern. Unlike the Odyssey, the Windstar has several modern safety features including side airbags which help protect your head.
http://www.highwaysafety.org/news_releases/2000/pr121400.htm
Believe it or not, I did write an objective comparison of the Ody and the Caravan, as gcintender wrote on in message #217. Check out message # 550 in "Chrysler Town and Country vs. Honda Odyssey".
Once again, sorry for the offense.
I agree, I would want all that comfort too, if I spent all my time getting it fixed. I've had Chryslet junk before and spent a lot of time at the dealers. Our Odyssey has had no trouble, not even a RECALL. Plus they don't have to give them away in order to get people to buy. I guess it don't matter if you keep it forever but I buy new every 2 years and can't afford the beating on trade.
The Odyssey is a very nice minivan and we would now own one if it had been available in March 1999. Meanwhile, the many nice comfort items of the GC SE were appealing...especially the built in child safety seat for safety of grandchildren. Since none of the many friends who owned and now own DC minivans had experienced problems, we had more confidence in the real world experience we could verify than the old wives tales found on the internet or in biased magazines.
I think DC should have copied the nice seating arrangement of the Odyssey (middle row and Magic Seat) and also had a powerful engine standard. Honda was smart to have most of the desired features standard. Honda is also smart to not play games with rebates, discounts,hidden incentives, etc.
On the other hand, the Odyssey could be improved by adding some of the nice comfort features of the Chrysler minivans. If I did not think the Odyssey was a nice minivan, I would not have recommended it to my sister and brother in law. I told them of the advantages of each and suggested they go compare them closely at the Annual Auto Show in January.
Good luck.
Typical vacation load - 2 kids, dog, vacation clothes (4 bags), 2 sets of golf clubs, tv/vcr combo (to keep the kids from killing each other during trip), cooler(s), extra food, kids toys, sporting goods, dog cage, and enough room left over to bring back the stuff we buy during vacation.
Other cargo needs - stuff from Home Depot for home improvement projects (got plans to finish the basement - need drywall), kegs and grill for tailgate parties, and finally................
a handy place to store the bodies of smarta$$ DC van owners!!! (for the humor impaired, that was a joke.)
I could fit everything you just mentioned in the back of a Chrysler minivan without having to "remove" any seats. Ok, perhaps Rover would get strapped to the roof depending on how large his cage is (that's if I had a dog). ;-)
Seriously, can't any Ody owners come up with a better excuse for needing a magic seat than hauling large appliances? For the ability to haul a washing machine once a year, you give up the every day advantages of AWD, the ability to seat five plus cargo, a full size spare, a silent gas tank, a quieter interior etc. Having to listen to Ody's gas tank slosh year round would be disadvantage enough for me.
I already know Ody's magic seat would be a useless gimmick for me, but I'm giving Ody owners the opportunity to tell the world why their magic seat is so great. At least Cincy answered the question, and I see how it works for him even though it doesn't sound like a necessity.
So, what do you use your magic seat for besides the up down up down up down calisthenics? Stop beating around the bush and respond to the question... it's sooooo easy. ;-)
1. Our vacations tend to go to visit family. Folding the seat down and having the big flat storage area is a plus for the trip. However, when we get there, we unload and will use the seat to carry extra people again when we go out. That same degree of flexibility is not there with the DC vans. This comes into play about 4 or 5 times a year for us.
2. When the third row is up, the extra deep well stores groceries better and I can store the golf clubs upright without blocking the view out the back window.
I've only had the van for 3 days and 100 miles, so I haven't had a chance to fully evaluate it yet, but I have not heard gas sloshing around, it doesn't pull to the right, the transmission hasn't thunked, the sliding doors have not broken, and the stereo works OK for me.
Also bear in mind that the magic seat was not the deciding factor for me to go with an Odyssey over a T&C. Go back about 50 posts to "How I made my decision" for the details.
AWD has benefits, but I've driven for 20 years without it and never got stuck (I grew up in Buffalo, so maybe I'm conditioned to deal better with winter driving.) Judging by the sales numbers, the vast majority of drivers don't need AWD on their vans either. My opinion is that AWD is additional mechanical complexity and just something else to break. My brother, OTOH, won't by a vehicle without 4WD or AWD because they got blown off the road once in a blizzard. If I had had that experience, I might feel differently about it.
I'm glad you're happy with your van and I have no reason to bash the DC vans. I just hope you can understand why others would be just as happy about picking something else.
Happy motoring.
However, I also prefer the quiet interior, luxury features of the Ltd, and the overall package of the T&C. Althought it cost me an extra $2K over the Ody EX w/aftermarket leather, the overall value is justified in my mind. IMHO, Honda's reliability and quality, and not the magic seat, is the critical factor for buyers to consider. In spite of multiple owner complaints in Edmunds' Forum, I do believe the Ody, on the average, will be more trouble free in the long run as compared to the T&C. Resale value, on the other hand, will be similar for the two in about 3 years; especially after the Alabama plant comes online in 2002. This of course assumes a purchase price of $1K-$2K over MSRP for the West Coast!
My ideal configuration is the Ody with Chrysler's body ;-), power moon roof and built-in entertainment system, magic seat and flexible middle row, and the luxo interior features and quietness of the T&C Ltd. Since that is not available, I have "settled" for a T&C Ltd with an extended warranty. So far, after 1600 miles, it has been a delightful ownership experience and I get a satisfactory feeling every time I get behind the wheel!
As for the cargo / passenger carrying capability, I have owned both a DC and now own an Odyssey. I never had any problem taking the back seat out or putting it back with the DC.
My list of advantages of the DC over the Odyssey are: the infinity sound system is about 4 times better than the Honda, roof rack, variable speed rear wiper,heated windshield wiper area, and automatic locking doors at 15 MPH aaare also better.
Gas milage and comfort are about equal (I had DC 3.3L)Styling is somewhat personal but DC does have lots more colors.
The Odyssey is slightly faster accelerating, holds the road better with independent suspension, and is slightly larger inside. The second and 3rd row passengers have more leg room.
The real differences are not great and really not worth the heated discussions. Buy and drive whatever you decide meets your needs. I wish you the best of luck with your choice.
It will be very nice when my sister gets her NEW 2001 Taffeta White Odyssey EX in the near future so I can sit in it and make a more careful comparison. I felt the Odyssey driver seat was more comfortable for me whereas my wife prefers the GC front passenger seat. Does this give you an indication of the success of the Women's Rights Movement?
I wanted to tie it down so it wouldn't bounce around and make lots of noise when I drove. No tie downs. What?!?! My 1986 Isuzu trooper had really nice tie downs. My Jeep Cherokee has acceptable tie downs. My Town and Country has nothing. I ended up tying it down to one of bench-seat mounts and to the jack. Yeah, I had to open up the little compartment contaning the jack and tie down to that.
People sued Chrysler when they let children ride in the cargo area behind the back seat and the tailgate opened during a crash.
Although owner's manuals specifically state that all passengers should be wearing a seat belt, those who did NOT read the manual still had the audacity to sue Chrysler after their stupidity caused someone to be injured. Same thing could happen to Honda with the Magic Seat flexibility.
Steve
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Vans, SUVs and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards
Steve
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Vans, SUVs and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards
http://www.detnews.com/1997/autos/9710/16/10090161.htm
http://www.wral-tv.com/features/5onyourside/1995/0927-rear-latches/
Note that the German tests, and the US real world experiences, the seats came loose and could be ejected. This may be how many people were thrown out even though they may have been wearing seatbelts. It's quite troubling how Chrysler did not inform the European owners of the same vans.
Regarding the case mentioned in the link that Steve provided, if I recall correctly the van was hit at about 5mph, it spun, rolled over, and then landed back on its wheels. The hatch opened and the kid was ejected.
In the end, I think Chrysler spent more money than they saved. Dumb and dummer indeed. It wasn't an official recall either. Just a safety campaign...another example of the NHTSA's incompetence unfortunately.
Drew
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Vans, SUVs, and Aftermarket & Accessories message boards
How can a recall be enforced, or the latch be deemed defective when it failed no crash safety standards?
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Steve,
For what it's worth, I recall reading that a seat belt wasn't in use in the case you mentioned, and I remember it being said that the van driver cause the accident by running a stop light. I'll look up the article when I have more time if anybody is really interested. Question, where did you get the $0.25 savings figure from?
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H20guy,
I've seen a lot a lawyer web sites that like to "keep the story straight" about Honda automobiles too. Let me know if you're interested in seeing them also.
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Carleton,
Somebody will probably sue Honda for not equipping their minivans with side air bags, or for not having a minivan period. ;-)
http://www.lvrj.com/lvrj_home/1999/Sep-14-Tue-1999/opinion/11943686.html
Drew
Host
Vans, SUVs, and Aftermarket & Accessories message boards
I have used the "magic" seat to carry large items twice in almost 2 years. I have never used it to tail gate. I personnally think there must be a better word than "magic" for the folding seat. MPV doesn't call theirs "magic" and it does the same thing.
There are no tie downs in the Odyssey. I bought a cargo mat that has quite a bit of friction; but would not keep a load from sliding forward in a hard stop.