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Entry Level Luxury Performance Sedans

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Comments

  • ggesqggesq Member Posts: 701
    "To each his own. I like spartan, clean lines."

    According to Webster's dictionary, spartan means- marked by simplicity, frugality, or avoidance of luxury and comfort.

    That's exactly the way I would describe the interior of the 3 series. :P
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Member Posts: 5,751
    "That's exactly the way I would describe the interior of the 3 series"

    It might be IMO, but your opinion is in the minority. BMW has a much more functional interior than the IS, which makes it nicer. :P It's not devoid of luxury, it's devoid of clutter.

    blueguy better get his dictionary out before posting.
  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Member Posts: 6,249
    Yes, that is an option with Lexus. The downside is that you need to wait about 4 months. I don't know how long you need to wait for a customized Bimmer but 4 months is about how long you'll need to wait for a customized-build Lexus.

    Actually it's not an option. talk to a lexus dealer. They, if they're honest, will explain they can only "order" cars Lexus is building. They must take what Lexus builds - nothing is built to order by Lexus.

    I also like multiple options for colors and trim

    Not 4 colors of leather (beige, black, grey, terra) and 3 wood/aluminum trims. Sorry Lexus doesn't offer than kind of customizing. You also must get items within packages - so picking things you do and don't want is nigh impossible. Heck, I'm not even including the lemon leather interior option for BMW.
  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Member Posts: 6,249
    I know exactly what spartan means. I wrote what I meant. Within that segment the BMW has the spartan interior styling I lean toward. If anything, the e90 is actually too soft for me - the leather is not nearly as hard and nice as in the e46, the seats seem wider, the whole damn interior's too big and the thing has junk like duel-zone-HVAC and a flat center console that the passenger can see/touch.

    I want a purposeful interior that's got the gauges I need, hard, tight leather seats, an ergonomics focused on the driver. The 46 had it, the e90 is a step away but not nearly as bad as the competition. Give me the hard edged teutonic designs over anything buicky-soft (Infiniti, Lexus, Acura, Caddy).
  • louisweilouiswei Member Posts: 3,715
    I don't know how Lexus dealers in San Diego function but dealers here in the Southeast do take special orders. I know this because I just purchased a new IS. My dealer explained to me that if you can't find anything you like on the lot there are 3 ways to obtain a car of your preference:

    1. Trade with other dealers (the simplest). Dealers usually trade car at port right after they arrived. For my region the port the Jacksonville.

    2. Request the car before they shipped out. This is not custom-build, instead the dealers request the car right after they rolled out of the assembly line. If dealers don't have special request then it's up to Lexus to distribute the cars.

    3. Customer-build. This option takes the longest (usually up to 120 days) and yes you can customize your car. The story I heard is that Lexus rarely builds IS with sports package and the only way to get it is through special order.

    As for the color, like I said the color options Lexus offered is plenty enough for me and also, Lexus doesn't charge extra for paint colors other than while, red and black like BMW does.
  • louisweilouiswei Member Posts: 3,715
    To say that Infiniti, Lexus and Acura are Buicky-soft is just your own opinion. Anyone with common sense after drives the IS, G and TL tell you that it's nothing likes the Buick.

    I do agree with you that E46's interior looks way better than E90's and I also would like to see more driver-oriented cockpit design for cars in this segment.
  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Member Posts: 6,249
    o say that Infiniti, Lexus and Acura are Buicky-soft is just your own opinion. Anyone with common sense after drives the IS, G and TL tell you that it's nothing likes the Buick.

    Interiors. Read the whole message. I was discussing interiors. As for drive, only the Lexus and the Acura are soft in terms of drive. The Infinti feels pretty good - a tad skittish.
  • ggesqggesq Member Posts: 701
    "It might be IMO, but your opinion is in the minority."

    Do I really have to post the numerous reviews about the interior styling of the 3er? I hope not..

    "It's not devoid of luxury, it's devoid of clutter."

    What you call clutter, others call "necessity." ;)
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    I keep hearing folks harping on the issue of the extra cost metallic paint on many German cars. Given that BMW (and Mercedes and Audi) uses a more complex process to paint a car with metallic paint and then applies two or more extra coats of finish on metallic colored cars, I simply cannot understand why folks should complain about the marginal extra cost. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I know that Lexus doesn't charge for their metallic colors, but do they use the same multi-layered process as BMW? Not the last that I heard.

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • ggesqggesq Member Posts: 701
    "I know exactly what spartan means. I wrote what I meant."

    Then we're in agreement.

    "Give me the hard edged teutonic designs over anything buicky-soft (Infiniti, Lexus, Acura, Caddy)."

    Not even going to go into the inherent absurdity of that comment... :blush:
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Member Posts: 5,751
    Yes I think you do. In fact I'll post the first one.

    http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Drives/FirstDrives/articleId=104670

    Note in the article where they talk about build and quality materials.

    "What you call clutter, others call "necessity." ;) "

    Yes, and still others call clutter. :)
  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Member Posts: 6,249
    You wouldn't say that the Lexus IS350 or Acura TL has much softer seats than a 3 series?
  • louisweilouiswei Member Posts: 3,715
    If you are talking about Interiors then you've gotta be mad to compare Acura/Infiniti/Lexus' interior with Buick's. IMO these three's interior are better than Bimmer's (okay, maybe not Infiniti's), nevertheless Buick's.
  • laurasdadalaurasdada Member Posts: 4,686
    I can't say that I recall the firmness of the 3 seats, but if they are significantly harder than a TL, ouch! They must be filled with solid wood! :) I find my TL seats far from soft. Of course, I did come from a Chrylser 300M whose seats I found lovely, but much softer than the TL.

    '21 Dark Blue/Black Audi A7 PHEV (mine); '22 White/Beige BMW X3 (hers); '20 Estoril Blue/Oyster BMW M240xi 'Vert (Ours, read: hers in 'vert weather; mine during Nor'easters...)

  • louisweilouiswei Member Posts: 3,715
    You wouldn't say that the Lexus IS350 or Acura TL has much softer seats than a 3 series?

    Yes, but as soft as the Buick? I don't think so.

    Also, a car's interior isn't just the seats. It also includes the dash, center console and many others. Beside paying extra for the metallic paint one also needs to pay extra to get genuine leather seat in 3-series. As for Lexus, genuine leather is standard throughout the lineup
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Member Posts: 5,751
    "Beside paying extra for the metallic paint one also needs to pay extra to get genuine leather seat in 3-series. As for Lexus, genuine leather is standard throughout the lineup"

    Saying it another way you can build the car the way you want and pay for only those options that make a difference for you.
  • goodegggoodegg Member Posts: 905
    I find my TL seats far from soft

    I second that. The TL's thigh bolsters are hard. Can't wait til they soften up after some use.
  • aaarghaaargh Member Posts: 230
    When I test drove both the TL (which I bought) and the BMW 330 in 2004, I remember the BMW seats to be way too hard for me, much harder than the TL's and that's saying something. The dash was too spartan for me as well.

    I believe there are 'driving enhusiasts' who want seats that hard. For me though, a good (not great) performer with comfort is the best mix.

    Those making generalizations like 'your opinion is in the minority' one way or the other lose credibility in my view. If you talk mostly to enthusiasts, the BMW seats are just right and you will feel those of us who like the mixture are in the minority. I see it the other way. I have no way of quantifying it and I think others have no way either.

    As has already been said, it's what is best for each individual, not what anyone else thinks is best (even if they are in the minority ;) ).
  • louisweilouiswei Member Posts: 3,715
    aargh, I couldn't say it better :D .
  • pearlpearl Member Posts: 336
    Well, pupap, the IS350 is a nice car, assuming you can fit inside one. When I test drove one, my head was touching the liner no matter how I adjusted the seat. The salesman suggested that I tilt it back - sorry. I am not tall (6'0) but have this problem in the GS as well. Judging by comments on this board and others, Toyota/Lexus seems to have much more of an issue here than most other brands. I have never had this problem in a BMW. It is good that you like your IS, and also good that (apparently) you fit.
  • maximafanmaximafan Member Posts: 592
    I agree wholeheartedly that it's not just
    about the seats. I've been researching and
    checking the interiors on these cars, meaning
    the dash layouts, instrumentation, even the
    styling contours of the seats. These are my
    basic likes and dislikes in regard to the
    the cars that I am eyeing when my lease is up.

    Acura TL: Love the interior looks of this
    car all the way from the electric blue
    instrumentation, the entire dash layout, and
    I think the contour of the front bucket seats
    are gorgeous. Right now, the only thing
    I wish the TL had was the auto-headlights and
    split fold rear seat.

    The current Nissan Maxima: The fact that my
    2002 Maxima has been an excellent car for
    four years would probably always keep this
    car on my radar. I know the styling to
    many people out there is subjective
    inside and out on this car, but I still like
    it.

    Lexus IS250/350: It's a beautiful car, but..
    It's just too small for my tastes.

    BMW 325/330: While I really like the
    exterior styling, especially with the sport
    package, i.e., wider tires and such, I really
    am not crazy about the interior dash layout/
    design. It's what keeps this car down on the
    list for me. I really feel that the previous
    generation 3 series had a much better looking
    dash layout/design.

    The Infiniti G35/coupe: Love these cars, but
    not crazy about the mpg's with today's gas
    prices. I'd rather get the TL or the Maxima
    with a little bit less hp and more mpg's.

    Just my two cents!
  • dhanleydhanley Member Posts: 1,531
    What can i say, I think i agree with your interior assessments across the board. What do you think of the relative handling of the TL/IS/330?
  • merc1merc1 Member Posts: 6,081
    The person doing 100+ passes you in a flash. If people in the USA obeyed the worldwide (save for the uk and those jerks in switzerland) view that the left lane is for faster traffic, you wouldn't have to worry. Left lane campers ruin driving and endanger everybody. If people would keep to the right we'd all be safer. Unfortunately, the cell phone people camp out in the left lane, talk with their kids, watch dvds and in general ignore everything going on behind them. And in front of them too!

    Amen!

    M
  • merc1merc1 Member Posts: 6,081
    One of my closest calls ever happened when I tried to merge onto an expressway in Connecticut; the merger was from the left. The speed limit was 50 mph, and the idiot who almost slammed into me was doing at least 80. I had to go into the left shoulder to avoid getting nailed, and then had to wait almost a minute for traffic to clear before getting back onto the highway.

    We have some interchanges like that here in the Chicago area. There are two on I290 and few in downtown Chicago. Very dumb design IMO. If the faster traffic is to keep left then you can't put merging traffic on the highway in the left lane. I don't know how that got by the engineers who designed these interchanges. Illinois has gone so far as to pass laws about the left lane and its specific uses in the last few years. Luckily the City of Chicago is eliminating most of the left handers on I94 in downtown Chicago, but the ones on I290 are here to stay I guess for the time being.

    M
  • nyccarguynyccarguy Member Posts: 16,373
    One of my closest calls ever happened when I tried to merge onto an expressway in Connecticut; the merger was from the left. The speed limit was 50 mph, and the idiot who almost slammed into me was doing at least 80. I had to go into the left shoulder to avoid getting nailed, and then had to wait almost a minute for traffic to clear before getting back onto the highway.

    80 is kinda slow as far as Connecticut goes.

    2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2022 Wrangler Sahara 4Xe, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD

  • dhanleydhanley Member Posts: 1,531
    Ahhh, i remember years back, my girlfriend was driving my car (then a saturn sl2) onto the dan ryan in downtown chicago via one of the left-hand entrances. She panicked at the bottom and hit the brakes. Cars were whizzing by on the right, not far from my fragile person, and i was wondering what the heck she was going to do.

    From behind, i saw a big black bmw shooting down the ramp. He passed by us on the left doing at least seventy, sucking my car several inches to the left, and uneventfully merged into traffic.

    I remember thinking, "I need to get me one of THOSE!"
  • habitat1habitat1 Member Posts: 4,282
    I remember thinking, "I need to get me one of THOSE!"

    And a new girlfriend that knows how to drive! ;)
  • dhanleydhanley Member Posts: 1,531
    Haha! If i run into Danica Patrick i will be sure to chat her up. :)

    dave
  • allargonallargon Member Posts: 75
    I'm surprised no one posted how the Jaguar X-type got named wimpiest car in its class by Business Week. Moreover, I'm surprised none of the Lexus, Infiniti, Acura crowd is crowing about how the Cadillac CTS, BMW 3 series, Audi A4 and Mercedes C-class were all named near misses.

    From http://www.businessweek.com/autos/content/jun2006/bw20060616_655394.htm

    "Jaguar X-Type

    Segment: Luxury Sport Sedan
    Engine: 3 Liter V6
    Horsepower: 227
    Cost: $32,330
    Gas mileage: 18/24 (city/highway)
    Near misses: Audi A4, BMW 3 Series, Cadillac CTS, Mercedes-Benz C-Class

    Though the X-Type does have 12 more horsepower than a base BMW 3 Series, it also costs more ($32,330 vs. $30,900). But that doesn't matter because the 3, like other class competitors -- the Audi A4, Cadillac CTS, and Mercedes-Benz C-Class -- makes better use of what it has under the sheet metal. Drive-wise, the soft-handling X-Type doesn't get close to the gold-standard 3 or sharp-witted and well-powered upstarts like the CTS, which packs 255 horses over the X-Type's 227. And though the ride is Jaguar-comfortable, the interior materials aren't what you'd expect from the venerable mark. There's nothing worse than hoping to rest your superiority complex on a classic and elegant British inter1ior only to have a lackluster cabin leave you hanging."
  • tayl0rdtayl0rd Member Posts: 1,926
    One of my closest calls ever happened when I tried to merge onto an expressway in Connecticut; the merger was from the left. The speed limit was 50 mph, and the idiot who almost slammed into me was doing at least 80. I had to go into the left shoulder to avoid getting nailed, and then had to wait almost a minute for traffic to clear before getting back onto the highway.

    I have to say, that was your own fault. You do realize that the folks already on the freeway have the right of way? It's your responsibility to get up to the proper speed to merge with traffic! It doesn't matter what the speed limit is.
  • acuraking_27acuraking_27 Member Posts: 15
    This forum should not exist.
    The TL is the best car in the pack (overall) and i'm not just saying that because i'm a fan, it's true.

    A magazine i was reading had a comparo of all of these cars:

    The TL gets great gas mileage, auto-industry best reliability, and fast, too! (FWD)
    For 2006 The TL has no black spots on Consumer Reports, and is recommended as the best entry-level midsize sedan.

    The 3 Series is an excellent drivers car.
    But the price tag can be steep, for just a name "BMW"

    The G35 is a driver's car also, and looks good.
    But as of right now Nissan is at the bottom of the import pit with Suzuki and Volkswagen. (JD Power)

    The IS350 is hair-raising fast, and is a Toyota.
    But i'd rather have the bigger GS for the price.

    The C-Class is a nice car, and fun to drive.
    But when you pay for a name. You sometimes pay for bad quality also. It had more black spots across the board than a Ford Taurus. (Consumer Reports)

    The CTS is an alright car with excellent reliability (saab engine)
    But lacks the fit and finish of it's competitors.

    The ES330 is nice, pretty quick, and reliable.
    But Lexus isn't exactly the most economical buy in the category.

    For everything you get, gas mileage, reliability, a price that doesn't jump 10k like it's competitors. The TL is the best entry-level midsize sedan on the road. (Autobytel)
  • maximafanmaximafan Member Posts: 592
    The TL is definitely a vehicle that gives you
    a lot of "bang for the buck." Now, if only
    Acura would offer some better lease support
    on the TL. I know here in my hometown in
    Florida, I just want to laugh out loud when
    I'm perusing the Saturday ads in the auto
    section for the various leases, i.e., Acura,
    Infiniti.

    For instance, the local ad in town for the
    Acura TL for a lease on a non-navi right now
    is $354 a month, but they want $4,000 down.
    $354 a month might sound nice, but after
    reading these forums over the past year,
    there's no way I'm putting $4,000 down to
    lease a vehicle. The Infiniti ads are the
    same way. They want ridiculous amounts for
    a down payment on a lease. I get so P.O.'d
    when I see this every weekend.

    I have to admit, I have hardly seen any
    really decent lease offers that anyone has
    been getting even on these forums, and I
    check the other forums besides Acura. I'm
    always checking out the Lexus forums, the
    Infiniti forums (granted some people,
    particularly in California, seem to get some
    outstanding deals.) It always seems like
    slim-pickings when it comes to leasing these
    days. Just my rantings!
  • dhanleydhanley Member Posts: 1,531
    The fact that you think the main problem with the es330 is that it's "not economical" says a lot about yor priorities. :)
  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Member Posts: 6,249
    The 3 Series is an excellent drivers car.
    But the price tag can be steep, for just a name BMW


    You can pick up a brand new 2006 330i for about 32k if you know how to shop. Under 30k for a 325i. On lease a 330i is a steal. My last one ran me 17k for 3 years of its lease. Not bad given the 43k msrp. My current 330i will cost me $10k (42k msrp) total in lease fees over 2 years. Can Acura even come close to that? don't think so...plus the BMW has free maintenance so the only cost for upkeep on my 3s: tires.



    The G35 is a driver's car also, and looks good.
    But as of right now Nissan is at the bottom of the import pit with Suzuki and Volkswagen. (JD Power)


    Infiniti is in the top 10 for reliability. Nice way to cloud facts.
  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 32,891
    you got a 330i for nothing down and ~$417/mo for 2 years? I'm going to have to talk to you before I lease my next car. I'd love that deal.

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Member Posts: 6,249
    Could have paid less but my salesguy fell ill and his replacement was too obtuse to understand Multiple Security Deposits.
  • laurasdadalaurasdada Member Posts: 4,686
    While I appreciate your enthusiasm for the TL (and I agree with your thoughts on the TL, I bought an '05) I have to disagree with the title of the post. The only way to know what car is "the best" is, after sufficient research, to drive the cars!

    You begin your post with, "A magazine i was reading had a comparo of all of these cars..." which is certainly a beginning, but if you haven't driven all the cars, how can YOU decide which is truly best? Only the actual buyer/lessor can decide which car is the best. Not everyone has the same buying criteria. If you decide that a BMW is the best, you pay what you pay because that is the car you have decided is worth your $$$.

    But for me, like you, the TL is the best!

    '21 Dark Blue/Black Audi A7 PHEV (mine); '22 White/Beige BMW X3 (hers); '20 Estoril Blue/Oyster BMW M240xi 'Vert (Ours, read: hers in 'vert weather; mine during Nor'easters...)

  • bbydadbbydad Member Posts: 58
    Can anyone tell me what they think about the rear seat in the BMW 325 vs. the Audi A4? They seem similar in terms of the amount of space, but I think there are subtle differences in way the seats slope and the shape of the seats. My sense at the dealers was that the BMW was more comfortable for rear passengers, but I wanted to hear what others felt based on more than just a test drive. Also, we need to fit a couple of car seats in the back, so if anyone has any experience with these cars and rear seat car seats, that would be great. Is it true that there is no rear airconditioning vent in the A4? Is that true of the BMW?

    Thanks
  • esfoadesfoad Member Posts: 210
    Right On! laurasdada. This is one of the more lucid and well thought out replies to this never ending discussion. I've said this before - ALL these cars are wonderful machines but your bringing up the "criteria" for each person's purchase really hits the nail on the head. I want to thank all the soldiers who have fought and continue to fight for our right to have the choices that we have, not only in what we drive but in everything we do every day. And also for the right to have these discussions without fear.
  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Member Posts: 6,249
    I know from experience an e90 3 series will fit a car seat. Never tried two. It's got a bigger back seat than the e46 though.

    I have rear HVAC on my e90 330i. Not sure but I think it's standard on all e90s.

    As for the A4 v. 325, go hop in both.
  • redwagon1redwagon1 Member Posts: 6
    OFF Topic but this burns my rear. Without commenting on the stupidity of doing 60 percent faster than the posted speed LIMIT, I believe that you are (potentially deadly) incorrect. A driver loses the right-of-way when exceeding the speed limit. If you are speeding, you will be held responsible for any collisions.

    This situation is the similar to turning into traffic from a side-street. If the posted speed is 35 MPH you have every right to expect the on-coming traffic is doing 35 MPH or less when calculating your safe-merge zone.

    If this does not make an sense, think how you would react if you were trying to enter the street from your driveway and the traffic as doing 60 MPH. Would you say: "Well that's okay -- they have the right-of-way. I will just have to go purchase an alcohol Funny Car so I can merge in safely."? :mad: I don't think so!

    I am no angel :blush: with my new TL. But if you can not be considerate of other motorist, at least remember you are assuming a tremendous responsibility when you speed - potentially a life-and-death responsibility :sick: .
  • maximafanmaximafan Member Posts: 592
    I was browsing through today's Tampa Tribune,
    and guess what? The local Acura's ad
    increased the down payment for a 2006 TL
    w/out navi to $5,000 down for 36 months with
    the same payment they've been advertising of
    $354 a month. The nerve!!! They wanted
    $4,000 down last week. I just cannot believe
    that with all the TLs they've got sitting on
    the lot, and believe me, they've got PLENTY,
    the incentives are even worse. I really don't
    understand this.

    As far as Infiniti's lease program, if you
    go by what's advertised in the Tampa Tribune,
    the local Infiniti dealer wants too much to
    be put down for the down payment of a lease,
    although I have a gut feeling that there's
    still room for negotiating a decent deal with
    much less money down. It was very deflating
    reading today's paper in the automobile
    section. Makes me start to think I should
    just buy my Maxima when the lease is up.
    The buyout price is pretty cheap. :mad:
  • patpat Member Posts: 10,421
    Please do post sales people's names. See the Rules of the Road (link on the left) for the details about what may and may not be posted when describing dealership interactions.

    Thanks!
  • goodegggoodegg Member Posts: 905
    Who wants to put $4-5000 down to LEASE a car? And then be strapped somewhat to the lease for the next 36 months. And deal with the mileage excess ( I'd bet the lease you're describing allows 10-12000 miles a year ).

    You could buy the car with no money down and have a similar payment, and still have the flexibility to do what you want, whenever you want, with the car.

    I leased an Accord a few years back. Zero down, first payment was made for me, and a residual that mirrored the true MV of the car at lease end. The payment was $100+ month lower than if I'd bought the car.

    My $.02
  • maximafanmaximafan Member Posts: 592
    That's exactly what I was thinking. I mean,
    I know my monthly payments would be
    considerably higher if I were to buy it and
    put 4k down and finance it over 5 years, but
    I wouldn't have to deal with mileage limits
    or fees to turn the car back in and such
    and such.
    It seems to me that leases overall are not
    very good deals these days as opposed to
    four or five years ago. And you're correct,
    I believe the mileage limit for the lease
    on the TL is 10k or 12k per year and it's for
    a 36-month lease.

    I can say this much: If I can't find any
    decent lease incentives on the cars that I'm
    interested in when my lease is up, I may
    have to just look at buying, maybe even used.
  • maulanamaulana Member Posts: 55
    Hi Blueguydotcom...
    ok, you got our attention. brand new 330i for 32k? 325 for 30k? lease fees under 10k?

    care to share? You'll have an eager audience, promise!
  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Member Posts: 6,249
    European Delivery. 15% off MSRP = great lease rates.
  • maulanamaulana Member Posts: 55
    That seems pretty amazing.
    So that does mean that on a base 325i (no options), with a regular MSRP of $31,595, it would end up being 26856?

    I have not finished reading through the ED options, but does it require a trip to Europe?
  • dhanleydhanley Member Posts: 1,531
    Yes, you have to go to europe to pick it up.

    If you like the ideas of BMW's and european delivery, you don't count the vacation cost as part of the car cost. I'm going to go on vacations now and again anyhoo. And i subtract the cost of rental from my car's price. Picking up the car at the factory and breaking it in on the autobahn is worth something to some people.

    However, if you're not positive about bmw's in the first place and aren't going to travel to europe, you can add $1500 to the ED price as part of your "virtual" car cost.
  • maulanamaulana Member Posts: 55
    Is there a specific place in germany that one can/should go to? I think I read that the shipping cost is the same as the 695 that is included in US dealer purchases anyway.

    I certainly don't mind the travel. I just spent a month in Europe, which was an amazing experience.
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