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Toyota Matrix vs. Pontiac Vibe - Compare Notes
to discuss the Toyota Matrix and Pontiac Vibe.
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Revka
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Revka
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Pontiac offers a cargo area organizer called the "Gear Box" (hahaha) on the Vibe. In the upright position it looks deep enough for grocery bags, file folders, etc. From the brochure it looks like it's made of hard plastic and folds down to just a couple of inches above floor level, and Pontiac says that when it's folded down you can load stuff on top as if it were the floor itself. Does anyone know if Toyota offers something similar?
The Matrix does offer cargo nets, not quite the same thing.
One more thing, I just found the website for "nifty products" Not much there. No Cargo-logic tote listed just some floor mats.
The Matrix came with 17 inch wheels and the Vibe with 16 inch. The 16 inch wheels do not corner as well.
The Vibe had the DVD Navigation system which I found to be very helpful.
In the San Francisco Bay area the GT is easier to find than the XRS.
Which would you buy?
I have had fantastic luck with Toyotas in the past and would pay more for the Toyota quality but in this case you're actually paying less for the Matrix than the Vibe.
You may have to wait to get the car you want but it'll be worth it so try and base your decision on factors other than availability at this moment in time. More cars are on the lots every day.
And as for Vibe vs Matrix... considering they are basically identical except for looks, I was thinking I might save money getting the Vibe instead. But no. The base price of the Vibe vs XR is $600 more ($16,900) and the power package to bring it up to the feature set of the XR is an additional $1000! And the Toyota warranties are better (3 yr/36k basic, 5 yr/60k drivetrain vs Pontiac's 3yr/36k basic, 3yr/36k drivetrain).
Not to mention, in my opinion, the Vibe is butt-ugly and the Matrix quite attractive. But if the Vibe were a better deal, I'd suck it up and bear the vehicle's looks. But it's not
erisynne: The under-floor compartment is where the spare tire and jack are stowed. Not much room in there for anything else.
It looks like the gearbox (trunk organizer) is not compatible with the cargo mat. MSRP in the Vibe catalog is $120 US.
The dimensions of the gear box are:
Collapsed: 41" x 18" x 2-1/4" high
Expanded: 41" x 18" x 9" high
Interior storage area: 35-1/4" x 12-3/4" x 8-1/4" high
It also includes 2 removable dividers which can be used to split the interior storage area into thirds.
The water-resistant seat covers for the rear seats are NOT included. You will have to order them separately if you want them.
There is a $700 discount when you buy both the power package and the Moon and Tunes package.
Revka
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Hatchbacks & Station Wagons Boards
I thought the interiors were laid out extremely well, and they used every last square inch of space efficiently. Both cars (don't fool yourselves; that's definitely a Corolla underneath there;) also handled pretty well. A few fatal flaws, though;
1. Neither engine is a good match for the vehicle. The base engine, even with a stick, couldn't get out of its own way. The 180hp unit, while definitely not lacking in peak power, unfortunately required alot of attention to keep in the powerband. Clutch engagement wasn't smooth, and I felt way more shifting than necessary had to occur. Great fun for, say, a Celica (go figure) or an RSX, but lousy for what will most likely be a family hauler.
2. The hard plastic load floor-- dumb. Period.
3. Visibility out the back of the Vibe sucks. It's not great in the Toyota, either.
All in all, they're OK cars, but definitely not for me-- I think money's better spent on, say, a Jetta wagon.
Looks wise I would do the following. I would use the Vibe body (don't like the crimp in the Matrix) with the Matrix front end (front of the Vibe is too Aztek like). I would loose the cladding altogether, and get rid of the worthless roof rack (way too short for my canoe). I think the result would actually be pretty nice.
I am also not too crazy about the gauges being in tunnels, and orange does not have enough contrast - so I would probably change that too.
discounting below MSRP? If so, is there a rule-of-thumb like 5%,10%,etc? I'd appreciate
hearing from those who may have already purchased. Having a trade-in as I do, makes it
hard to know just what kind of deal I'm being offered unless I can take something off list price
and go to the used-car guides to get an idea of what mine is worth.
Revka
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Hatchbacks & Station Wagons Boards
trade-in value. Local dealer was about 250 above "average trade in" for my car so I bought a Vibe today. Still trying to decipher the instructions on the high tech radio but so far so good.
Thanks for your timely response.
Beater
Revka
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Hatchbacks & Station Wagons Boards
this weekend I will check out pontiac's vibe. Since the vehicles are essentially the same, Pontiac maybe the winner. Just thinking about buying from toyota makes me cringe.
The reason I am asking is b/c I am planning to test drive it just for fun, and if the shifter is *&^t, i couldn't be bothered.
Also, any recommendations on which dealer to visit, Toyota or GM?
I was thinking GM, because perhaps they might be happy to have a young customer come in the door, and since there is less people traffic, they might be less reluctant to let me take a drive.
Thanks, Aroon
While the design is identical for both, the Vibe is built in the U.S., while the Toyota is built in Ontario, Canada. A lot of the parts they are using are from different suppliers consequently, and the Ontario factory is Toyota-owned and run, while the U.S. factory is all GM. In my experience in the past, that has led to a large gap in build quality and reliability down the line. Maybe I have had very good luck, but I have never had a Toyota break down or have parts fall off or stop working. That DID happen with a Pontiac I owned - I would never own Pontiac again. I have known too many people who have had crappy Pontiacs in the last decade or two, who always had problems with their cars.
By the way, as far as driveline design, I believe the XRS driveline is lifted directly out of the celica GTS, and I am pretty sure that means the engine is designed and built by Yamaha.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Since both cars that we are looking at were made in Ca., who is right?
Really it's only a question of what look you like more.
Vibe's 3-year/36,000-mile (whichever comes first) New Vehicle Limited Warranty covers repairs, including labor and parts, to correct any defects in material or workmanship occurring during the warranty period. The vehicle is covered, except for adjustments and normal maintenance.
The plants are different where they are built, and the Ontario plant has received awards for build quality, as someone else pointed out.
And who wants gobs and gobs of plastic "cladding" on their car? The vibe has it, the matrix does not.
Yes, the Fremont plant was set up as a joint venture, with GM owning it and Toyota being the consultant on how it was operated. Toyota has just ended this relationship after a decade.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
However, if the Subaru Outback Sport had been included it probably would have even beat the Protege!
The Fremont plant has received MANY awards for build quality. I have no idea where you get your information, but you might want to consider changing sources. Here is one: http://www.nummi.com Note that the Fremont plant has received MANY J D Power and Associate awards for build quality! The plant has received the VERY difficult to obtain ISO 14001 certification. Also, from the website:
Quote: NUMMI quality continues to be among the best in the industry, having received several J.D. Power and Associates Initial Quality Study vehicle and plant awards through the years
A list of the quality awards, again from the same website:
1994: J.D. Power and Associates’ North American Plant Quality: Silver Plant award
1995: J.D. Power and Associates’ North American Plant Quality: Bronze Plant award
1996: J.D. Power and Associates’ North American Plant Quality: Bronze Plant award
1999: J.D. Power and Associates’ North American Plant Quality: Silver Plant award
2000: J.D. Power and Associates’ North American Plant Quality: Silver Plant award
2000: J.D. Power and Associates’ Chairman’s Award for Quality.
2000: NUMMI was the first manufacturing plant ever to receive the Chairman’s Award.
As far as the other thing with the factories, yes what you say is true. By American plant standards, NUMMI has excelled. The Toyota news was only just published this week in Autonews - they will be ending their mentoring program with American car companies. I do not remember where I read it, but I am sure I also read that they will be phasing out corolla production there - they are building a big factory in Mexico to produce those. As far as the tacomas, that is a really good point...I do not know where they are going to be building those - maybe they will stay at NUMMI for a while. But I am pretty sure that their plans are to phase out their participation in NUMMI in short order now. Someone help me out here - I do not remember where I read that.
PS The Japan-market matrix (voltz) is built in Japan for the Japanese, it has just been such a huge hit that they are doing some "reverse importation" from Fremont in a temporary arrangement with GM to meet the demand. This is not planned to continue long term, as far as I know.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
"The Voltz will be built exclusively at NUMMI and exported to Japan."
There is NO Japanese market Voltz built in Japan, so I can't see how it could be such a huge hit. And the Voltz is based on the VIBE, not the Matrix. The body is essentially the same. Both Matrix and Vibe have virtually the same interiors, interiors designed, by the way, by General Motors.
b. The NUMMI agreement was JUST renewed last year. Toyota and GM are partners in many different ways, and GM officials are often seen at the Georgetown, Kentucky plant where Camrys are built.
c. The quality of vehicles from the Fremont plant meets or exceeds that of those built in Canada (Matrix, Corolla) or Japan
d. The Mexican plant will produce vehicles for the Mexican market, not US or Canada.
All of this has been covered in great detail in the automotive industry press, most of which I subscribe to. My actual connection with the industry is best not discussed here.
The fact is, Nippononly, that Toyota and Honda are both multinational companies and as American as the so-called American automobile companies (one of which is in reality a German firm). You might want to read a Forbes article this week that discusses how nearly all future Ford and Chrysler cars will be built on platforms provided by their foreign subsidiaries, including the Ford Five Hundred, to be built on a Volvo chassis.
GM will also use its foreign subsidiaries to build the platforms, but only for its smaller cars. Its foreign companies build very few cars as large as the Bonneville, LeSabre and the Seville. On the other hand, Holden may well export whole vehicles to the US, in addition to those already announced.
In the end, you are best off just buying what you like or what you think is the best deal for the money.
These days, I think the main differences between car companies is the willingness they have to back their products.
As far as johnclineii - sorry, didn't mean to offend. Unlike you, I do not have the citations to back up my words, I am merely going from memory of what I have read, and may well be wrong. I would be surprised if Toyota went to the trouble of building a factory in mexico just to sell to Mexico - the U.S. seems to be a bigger market, and plus I was just reading about that the other day. Perhaps the mag I was reading was only speculating.
One thing that seems to be more and more true all the time is that perceptions of car models and companies based on experiences a decade old are invalid - the car industry has changed a lot. Chrysler is German now, Ford and GM both own a half dozen foreign companies and take liberally from them to build their own cars. Toyota, Honda and others have passed the point where more of their cars are built on foreign shores than on their own soil. Are they still Japanese? Maybe in philosophy, but not in build.
I will stand behind Toyota as long as they continue to back their products like they did recently when they extended their warranty to eight years/unlimited miles for all the engines affected by the sludge controversy. Yes, some of the owners had to make a fuss about it before they would step up to the plate, but this may wind up costing the company a ton of money for something which has not been conclusively proven not to be a problem of maintenance negligence. And call me one-sided, but I highly doubt that GM or Ford would have taken a similar stance. Remember the ignition switch fiasco of many different GM models going on right now? GM has stated it cannot replace all the units it admits are defective. Tough luck owners. Remember the Ford F150 fuel tank controversy - many trucks unsafe in accidents, or going up in flames, I can't remember which. Ford said tough luck, sue, then got forced to retrofit millions of vehicles when they lost the lawsuit. This was years after it had affected said millions of owners.
Based on a number of factors, I would still choose the matrix over the vibe, because I would choose Toyota over GM, and because of the styling, the longer warranty in the U.S., and other little things.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)