Extended cabs OK for "real" people

stanford · July 1998

Most people these days have only one vehicle. This may be for space, monetary, insurance, or any other reason. This means that most people are looking for one vehicle that does everything. The SUV comes close, especially with the low price of gas in the US.

Personally, I drive what many people consider a foolish vehicle (especially for someone working a desk job just out of downtown Dallas): a '93 F350 Crew Cab diesel. Why? The same reason that many people go for SUVs -- I wanted something that could do anything I needed.

I tow horses (2 horse only for the most part), sometimes for long distances (last long trip was Madison, WI to Dallas, TX). This immediately reduced my options to a truck chassis. I also occasionally haul large or messy items. This meant that I wanted a truck bed, not an enclosed SUV. Finally, I keep the front seat all the way back, and yet still occasionally drive with other full-sized adults. IMO the extended cab trucks just don't have the rear seat comfort that the crew cab does (and aren't tbat much shorter anyway). The diesel still gets 16-17 avg. mpg after 100K miles, far in excess of my old '89 460.

All of these are good reasons, IMO, for the truck I drive. Most of the time, however, I use it for commuting the 30 miles to and from work, all by myself. While this may not be the most 'efficient' method of transport, it is the most convenient.

I looked at SUVs for a while, but I'm going with a truck again next time. Time to go order my new '99 F350 Crew Cab PowerStroke 4X4 Dually... every option under the sun, and still under $34K.

As an aside, I'm adding that 4x4 as one of my 'useless' features. I don't go off roading, or live in an area that gets much snow. However, in the last few years, I've got stuck in mud (fields, etc) 5-6 times. For me, the added cost of the 4x4 is outweighed by the convenience of not being stuck again (crew cab diesels are so front heavy its not funny).

We all make tradeoffs (or buy many vehicles) -- in my case, I'll take functionality over city practicality. Others prefer it the other way 'round. The modern SUV (especially the Yukon or Expedition sized ones) can do just about everything people need them for, with relatively few sacrifices. IMO, that's why they're so popular these days.

Besides, once you've owned one you get so used to the extra space its hard to go back. I watch people trying to fit relatively small items into the back of their wagons or sedans, and just drive on smiling.

Just my $0.02

KCRam · July 1998

My use of 4x4 on my Ram 3500 is bad weather mostly, but it does come in handy under other situations - I "dove" into a muddy field to pull out a stuck tow truck who had gone in to get a dead car. Pulled it out in 4-Lo reverse like I was pulling on a Tonka truck. A firend used to live in an apartment on the side of the hill and in order to back into the driveway, 4-High was a requirement.

Stanford, I agree with you that the functionality often outweighs the practicality. I know that I can safely stuff all 4 of my godchildren in my Ram (2 in car seats) without a space problem. I also know that I can take a few friends to the beach with all the junk we could possibly bring with us. As for parking - I just park where it will fit, then walk. I don't need to be right up front.

Gischpel · July 1998

I think more people have two cars today than ever.

I tell people I have my 4x4 extended cab truck for my weekend homeowner stuff (which I do a lot of), but, mostly it is because I like a truck, I like the Tacoma's looks and I like sitting up high. (My last car was an 1986 Civic Hatchback.) And if they don't like my reasons, screw them. They can make the payments on the vehicle I "should be driving".

larrywd · August 1998

I am considering buying a new Ford Ranger 4-door extended cab. This size and configuration of space is perfect for my storage/hauling needs: expensive photo gear, tripods and scopes would go behind the seat where I imagine them readily and quickly accessible and slightly more secure from theft; and an inflatable boat with its small motor in the bed. But what bothers me is the suggestion that these rear suicide doors are prone to rattle. Anyone have experience with this?
Another consideration is to get a regular cab with a quality, secure shell that is accessible from the side (for the photo gear). I would also like a shell strong enough to support me and a tripod. Any experienced-based advice for a shell like this?
I would like to hear some chat on the cost/benefits of the Ranger vs. the full-size 150.

crocodile · August 1998

Regarding the whole trucks vs. cars debate: Until last year, I had always been a "car guy". I thought trucks and SUV's were big unwieldy, primitive eyesores whose sole reason for existing seemed to be to get in my way.

I kept noticing that the number of trucks, mini-vans & SUV's appeared to be always increasing. It seemed that it was getting much more difficult to see what was going on in traffic because these oversize behemoths kept blocking my view. Finally, after several near misses, I became convinced that I was going to get nailed by one of these tanks and that, if I did, it would not be pretty.

So, reluctantly, I decided "if you can't beat 'em--join 'em" and I bought a '96 Dodge Ram 1500 Extended Cab. It was a little disconcerting at first to go from a low slung sports sedan to this tall upright truck. But right away I began to notice something--I could actually see what was going on around me! What a concept! Plus, I no longer felt intimidated by some yahoo in a SUV that thought he/she owned the road.

I had my truck a little over a year, and during that time a weird thing happened--I began to have really strong feelings of affection towards it. I had had many "cool" cars over the years but had never really had any type of emotional connection with them, but I loved that stupid truck!

It was reliable, dependable and I had never known how great it was to be able to haul around just about anything a person would need to. I can't begin to describe the feeling I had when, for example, I would make a purchase at a furniture store and be asked by the sales person if I needed to set up a delivery. "No," I would reply, with just a hint of smugness, "I have a truck."

A week ago last Friday I was sitting at a dead stop waiting on a traffic light when a housewife in a Suburban rear-ended me going approximately 30 mph. Somehow she had failed to see my bright red 4,000 pound truck. There were five of us in my truck and, thank God, nobody was seriously injured. I am convinced, however, that it would have been a different story if we had been sitting in a little sports sedan. I had been proven correct in my prediction a year earlier that eventually one of those "big guys" was going to get me. I could have stood being wrong on that one.

The insurance company says that both vehicles are repairable. This suprised me since they both appeared to be pretty well messed up. (Especially the Suburban--don't mess with Mr. Dodge Ram!) My truck is supposed to be out of the body shop within a few weeks. I'm not very optomistic that it will ever be the same (hope I'm wrong).

Anyway, that's my two cents worth (sorry about the long post).

P.S. anybody wanna buy a slightly bent Dodge truck?

Rocles · August 1998

Slightly Bent? Is that straight from the factory?

ricks2 · August 1998

larrwd: I have a brand new 4-door ranger. No rattles at all (nothing like the problems with GM's third door. I've gone over railroad tracks, curbs, pot holes, etc. and never heard as much as a ping. Ford did a great job!

amadeus131 · August 1998

Hi everyone! I've been "shopping" (by which I mean fantasizing) for months now planning to trade in my '97 Sunfire, currently with 35600 miles, for a used '97 Jimmy or Blazer with fewer miles. My rationale is that I wanted the following: 1) Larger size, greater "road presence" (but I'm not exactly looking for a Hummer or even a Suburban); 2) 4-wheel drive (long snowy winter); 3) More power; 4) More cargo space, as I've just moved to upstate NY and will be moving again in a year. I'm a single guy with no children. Then I found that I could have a loaded S-10 or Sonoma 4x4 extended cab BRAND NEW for about the same price, maybe even less. And I realized that I haven't used even the back seat in my SUNFIRE half a dozen times since the middle of 1997, two or three of which were, ironically, clumsily carrying big things like a mattress and a desk (please don't ask how; suffice it to say miracles do happen). I'm glad I didn't buy the Jimmy, because I think I was into the wrong vehicle! I stopped by a lot that still had some S-10s on it (sadly no V6's), and I think I actually could like this vehicle. Only problem is there are a gazillion skillion options, and I'm worried I'll have to order a '99, since my chances of finding a leftover '98 with all the options I want (power everything, remote keyless) look unfavorable compared to those of the proverbial snowball. Please, anyone, am I on the right track? What the heck will I do with all these options? Third door really rattly? Will I probably have to order a '99 as I said? Any chance of working such a deal from invoice, as is discussed so often here? Two disclaimers: I'm committed to GM in spite of so much bad hype about them (I'm also typing from an Apple Powerbook, which says a lot about me); so with due respect to the people who swear by Ford (like my father did) or to imports (like some of my best friends), or IBM (tee hee), I'm committed to the S-10 or Sonoma if I should go this route. Also I have no desire to get anything larger than this size class, even though it looks like it could be had for much the same price (I found the same problem with Sunfire/Grand Am when I was shopping in late '96, and as you see I went for the smaller car). Thanks, and happy "trucking" to all of you!

amadeus131 · August 1998

Addendum: Never mind about the S-10/Sonoma 3rd door rattle; I read the topic below about it. Sheesh. -- I stopped by a GMC dealer today, just to ask if they were getting more '98 Sonomas in, and when the '99s were coming in. He proceeded to try to sell me a leftover *'97*. This is not a misprint. They were asking $21000 for it, which is also not a misprint. Pleeeeeeease. It had the 3rd door on it; I mentioned that I'd heard from more than one source that it rattled. "Well, you can't believe everything you hear," he said. I respect salesmen, because I could never do what they do; but sometimes they're funny.

stevek · August 1998

21K!!!!! the guy must be dreaming. I paid 24K for my K1500 Z71 with the silverado interior.

amadeus131 · August 1998

Well, I neglected to mention that this truck is actually loaded: 4WD x-cab, auto trans, A/C, several other random things including "electronic shift transfer case" (?!), for MSRP of $23368. But still your point is well taken, stevek. I've calculated the dealer cost of this truck as $19858; I doubt it's really "worth" even that much anymore. I suspect this dealer is going to be buying this truck a second birthday cake.

-- By the way, what IS an "electronic shift transfer case"? Do I want one?!

stevek · August 1998

It is push button on the dash, instead of a stick on the floor to get inot 4WD. Just more things that can go wrong. The dealer cost you calculated is NOT what the dealer paid for it. Unless you "fell in love" with this truck, I would make a take it or leave it offer of no more than 19K.
I have heard a lot of bad things about the new S10 trucks, I personaly have an '89 S10 Blazer with 175K+ on it and it can not be destroyed, still runs strongs and looks good.

stanford · August 1998

If this truck is that old, the dealer is already ineligable for his 3% holdback... but is also paying property taxes on the vehicle. I'd guess he'd let it go for invoice, but I doubt he'd go below as that would be a net loss for him.

Then again, you never know.

amadeus131 · August 1998

I agree with both of you, stevek and stanford. Although my $19858 DID take the 3% holdback into account; invoice was about $20600. I'm far from in love with the truck; I'm holding out for a '98 that also has power everything (if one comes in so equipped), which I'm sure I could get for about the same price, not including rebates and my trade-in. And that sounds a LOT better than $26000 and up for an SUV, when I'll never use the back seat!

Will keep you all posted, as more '98s appear on the lots in my area....

stanford · August 1998

You'll also get a much better price in the future trading in a '98 or '99 rather than a '97.

I think that most companies offer dealers holdback on vehicles that sell within 2-3 weeks only.

kip3 · August 1998

Rocles, I agree with your post #7.. Suv's are a gross waste of money for most people that buy them. To me, a better use of money is an extended cab full size p/u with a hard torneau cover. With that combo you have room for 4 comfortable (5 if they really like each other) and a mamoth lockable trunk where things are truly hidden from view. Gas milage is about the same. Suv's are starting to take on the stigma of minivans.Everybody and his brother has one They are mostly 2 wheel drives now and most don't have limited slip axles. So they get stuck worse than fwd cars. Most of them on the road today are not "Sport Utility". They are very expensive tall station wagons with poor traction,rough ride, and poor gas milage. I agree that a real station wagon might be a better choice.(although I look better in a truck) kip

lwf · August 1998

"To me, a better use of money is an extended cab full size p/u with a hard tonneau cover."

Wow! When I read that I went to the window to see if someone was standing in my driveway. Only kidding of course, but it's exactly what I did. And I've had a couple of SUVs that I had put about 150,000 miles on. But that was back in the '70s before they were called SUVs and when they were not as popular as they are now. I doubt if I'll ever have another one though. My F150 XLT cost me many thousands of dollars less than a Suburban would have (one of the ones I had before) and I'm convinced it's a better vehicle for me because of all the reasons the two of you stated. BTW, the number of passengers the F150 will seat is actually 6 rather than just 4 or 5, and I don't think I ever had more than that in the SUVs I drove. I don't want to get into the gas-mileage argument with anyone, but I know my new pickup gets 8-to-9 mpg better that the '78 Suburban ever did, and I suspect it does better than the new GM, Dodge or Ford SUVs of that size.

cdean · August 1998

actually, lwf, the new suburbans are getting twice as good mileage as they were in '78.

lwf · August 1998

I believe that. It was a real gas guzzler, but on the other hand it was a work vehicle provided by the company I worked for at the time to tow a 30-ft Argosy trailer that I lived in. But even when it wasn't towing, it usually got only 10-11 mpg, and for all the miles I drove it, it never did better than 13. But the company bought the gas too, so I didn't care. But I couln't forget about that when the time came for me to buy my own truck again.

kip3 · August 1998

In one of the car mag. my son has around here they tested a Tahoe vs Expedition. I believe they were getting around 11 city-16 hwy..My Ram 5.9 gets 13-14 town 17-18 hwy., driving the speed limit, be it 55 or 70. A constant dose of 70 will pull it down to a consistant 17 mpg. In reality ,2 or 3 mpg wont make a difference of whether I make that next truck note, but my point,is there is approx $10,000 diff. in a large SUV and an full size extended cab p/u. equiped the same way.
I drive about 10,000 miles per year (retired). If I can avg 15 mpg overall, city/hwy, thats 666 gal of gas per year. At that rate I can drive for 15 yrs. FREE! (10000 miles Div by 15 mpg = 666.6 gal per yr.... $10000 div by 666.6=15 yrs.) Thats not figuring interest paid either way. Gas here in Atlanta is 80-93 cents for regular in my area. I'm figuring that cost at $1.00 a gallon. Another hugh benefit to me is the 6.5 ft long covered trunk; that can keep things hidden forever. Not to mention the wet clothing, coolers of fish and anything else I don't want inside the passenger area. Besides all that...I just look better in a truck.Ha! kip

hubcap · September 1998

amadeus131

I have been looking at the S-10 4WD also and have found two 97's for the 21K. I talked to the dealer about them and they say that they have never been sold and that they were dealer vehicles for corporate people. One truck has less then 200 miles and the other has less then 400 miles, the dealer wouldn't budge on the price so I walked. For that price I could get a 98.

amadeus131 · September 1998

That's interesting, hubcap. I actually test-drove the leftover '97 Sonoma since my last post in this topic. It drives really well, and after my test-drive there were only 53 miles on it! The only problem was that the 3rd door did indeed rattle slightly. I may consider this truck anyway if they can install remote keyless entry and a full-size spare, and if they will give me a fair wholesale value on my trade-in. I may also give GM a call and see if I can get the same $2000+ consumer incentive as if I bought a leftover '98. If so, this could become worth my while; but unless ALL these things happen, not really; especially if I find a similarly equipped '98. As you said, the '98 could be had for essentially the same price. Happy shopping!

amadeus131 · September 1998

Actually, I forgot that this truck also lacks power locks, mirrors, and windows. (Guess I want it all!) Can all these power doo-dads be added now? I figure if everything I mentioned can be added, and if the dealer gives me a fair wholesale price for my trade-in, and if either they or GM will compensate me at least somewhat for 2 years' depreciation -- these are 3 really big ifs -- then I might consider it. Or should I just cool it and wait for the '99s? I'm worried about the compact GM models coming in this loaded; it seems they tend not to.

Brutus · September 1998

Although, there may be aftermarket ways to add power windows, locks, and mirrors, a dealer isn't likely to arrange it for you. He gets those options stock from the factory for the trucks he orders with them. It's usually part of a factory convenience package.

When you buy a new truck, you're forking out a lot of bucks. It sounds like this deal may not be the one for you. I'd recommend that you keep you looking and see if you can't find another similar truck that has more of what you want. Remember, you're going to be paying on this truck for awhile. Make sure you get all the options you want. Also remember that you generally have to hold a vehicle for at least three years before you get a trade-in value that you may be able to live with. If you're considering trading the truck in 1-2 years from now, you'll probably be really disappointed with what you are offered.

amadeus131 · September 1998

... that you're right again, Brutus. I'll hold off until I can have a local dealer do a computer search for me. (It's not my color anyway.) Failing that, there's always ordering a '99 as we've discussed in another topic. But also, this Saturday there's a "car sale" at my credit union. You all know the type. "Receive a fair price for your trade! Receive a free Hawaiian vacation! Receive 1% off financing! Professional negotiator on hand to help you receive the best deal!" Right, when pigs fly. Nevertheless, I'm going. I may just run into the used compact pickup deal of the century. But I'm not holding my breath. And I'm CERTAINLY not enlisting the "help" of the "professional negotiator". Obviously the credit union and the various local dealers involved are in cahoots here; that's fine, I can respect that -- and yet, well, I'm not as dumb as I look.

jeff84 · September 1998

Amadeus don't have the keyless added aftermarket. they have to cut into the harness to add it and this can lead to future problems. My 98 GMC alarm went off just as we were pulling into a remote small town in the middle of no where. I had to disconnect the Batt just to checkin to my room. the next morning I had to pull the fuse to continue my vacation. the
truck has 12,000 miles on it and the place that installed it says just bring it back in. It's a 500 mile round trip so It will have to wait. If its not factory don't add it.

amadeus131 · September 1998

That's pretty scary, jeff84! I was already convinced not to add aftermarket stuff (except for maybe a cap or tonneau cover), but now you've really helped me decide. I guess some things aren't worth adding aftermarket, even if they're cheaper.
What I think I'll do is go visit a local Chevy dealer and a local GMC dealer tomorrow, just to have them run computer searches for 4WD V6 x-cab S-10s and Sonomas, respectively. I'd like to go into the used "car sale" on Saturday KNOWING if a new '98 truck I could be interested in is out there or not. I won't be cornered or put up with the "if-I-can-do-this-will-you-buy-it" treatment; likewise, I won't waste much of their time. 10-15 minutes each is all this should take. Based on what I've seen in my area, it looks like I'll probably be ordering a '99 anyway. Thank you all for your advice and opinions -- will keep you posted!

stanford · September 1998

Stay away from these '$99 alarm and tint' places and you'll probably be fine. I've probably sunk $7,500 into my truck (exterior, alarm, stereo) over the past 5 years. There are some things that you just can't get from your dealer.

stevek · September 1998

If you live in the northern climate a remote door lock is a must. Often the locks freeze up and the doors can not be opened with a key.

amadeus131 · September 1998

Well, I stopped in my local Chevy and GMC dealers today. Asked them to do a search as I mentioned above. Came a twist I hadn't counted on: they asked for my name and number to do the search later and call me back; the computer was down, the lady who punched in the data had gone home, blah blah blah. Well, all the books I've read have been a bit paranoid, saying not to give out ANYTHING but my first name until I put down the green cash. But I don't have time these days to worry about things like that. If they also run an unauthorized credit check on me, so be it. My credit is excellent; besides, I'm bound to find out if they try anything funny. I'm going to that "Car Sale" tomorrow (really today as I type). I give the dealer locate about a 15% chance of turning up anything sufficiently loaded; I give the "car sale" about 5% at best for having something I like, as used trucks are a rarity here, especially 4x4's, especially ESPECIALLY with all the options I want. Anyway, wish me luck, and happy trucking to all!

kip3 · September 1998

Be careful of too many credit checks. Banks/cu's watch that and get nervous if they see several credit checks. They figure you must be having a problem...

I agree with Stanford: There are some really great after market items available. A good pickup is like a member of the family and I don't mind buying "presents" for it. I learned long ago that you really do get what you pay for..That doesn't mean to pay more for the same item at one place vs. another. Dodge wants $57 for side window vent shades. In their brochure it says they are made by Auto Vent Shade. They now stick on the outside,where they used to fit under the window rubber.Pep-Boys sells Auto Vent Shade brand for $30. Both prices are cash and carry. On the other hand, I paid several hundred dollars for the Remote start,engine kill,auto door lock/unlock security system. Because I wanted it installed by a real professional,with a lifetime warranty from the installer and the mfg. and 3yrs from Dodge.
kip

kip3 · September 1998

Another place to save some bucks is the extended warranty. Dodge wanted $1800 for 7yr 70,000 mile warranty. It is not a chrysler backed warranty. It is backed by some ins. co..On the edmunds page you can get the same coverage for about half that. Hmmm... What can I buy "RED" for $900?? kip

Extended cabs OK for "real" people

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