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When is GM Going To Offer A Serious Diesel?
coloradocowboy
Member Posts: 6
Folks, I own a 96 Chevy K1500 stepside and
absolutely love it. I own horses and pull a 2
horse trailer. My current truck is maxed out
pulling 6500 lbs. I will be in the market for a
new truck in the next 12 - 18 months. I love the
GM truck line, however, I want a diesel in a 1 ton
truck, primarily for its pulling power and fuel
economy. I have looked at the Ford F350 and Dodge
3500 Ram, both with impressive diesels, but I can't
bring myself to buy either of these trucks. Call
me a GM diehard or what??
Does anyone know if GM is going to get real and
offer a respectable diesel in the upcoming year or
two. If I felt there was the possibility of one
coming, I'd wait for it. I have heard rumors that
GM may be talking to Caterpiller and Isuzu about a
new diesel for their pickups. Any inside info
anyone has would be appreciated.
I would really hate to buy a Ford or Dodge, and
then regret it. But then again, I know if I bought
the current GM diesel, I'd really regret it!!
Thanks for any help or insight anyone can provide.
absolutely love it. I own horses and pull a 2
horse trailer. My current truck is maxed out
pulling 6500 lbs. I will be in the market for a
new truck in the next 12 - 18 months. I love the
GM truck line, however, I want a diesel in a 1 ton
truck, primarily for its pulling power and fuel
economy. I have looked at the Ford F350 and Dodge
3500 Ram, both with impressive diesels, but I can't
bring myself to buy either of these trucks. Call
me a GM diehard or what??
Does anyone know if GM is going to get real and
offer a respectable diesel in the upcoming year or
two. If I felt there was the possibility of one
coming, I'd wait for it. I have heard rumors that
GM may be talking to Caterpiller and Isuzu about a
new diesel for their pickups. Any inside info
anyone has would be appreciated.
I would really hate to buy a Ford or Dodge, and
then regret it. But then again, I know if I bought
the current GM diesel, I'd really regret it!!
Thanks for any help or insight anyone can provide.
0
This discussion has been closed.
Comments
I'll see if I can find that article and give you more specifics.
Do you know about when? I can't find the article.
Do you know if this new engine will coincide with the expansion of the Silverado line to the 2500 and 3500 series??
If the Isuzu is a solid engine, it could be worth waiting for. I appreciate the info. I'll keep posted for more.
Thanks...
Here's a copy of it. Hope nobody sues me for any copyright infringement! Sorry it didn't paste in here very well.
GM, Isuzu team up to build
diesel engine in Ohio
September 9, 1998
BY TED EVANOFF
Detroit Free Press Automotive Writer
General Motors Corp. is forming a joint venture
with Isuzu Motors Ltd. to build a diesel-engine plant
near Dayton, Ohio.
The factory will cost more than $100 million and
employ 700 workers when it opens for production
in 2000. It will supply 6.6-liter diesel engines for
GM sport-utility vehicles, pickup trucks and
commercial trucks.
The 550 workers at GM's existing diesel-engine
plant in Moraine, Ohio, are eligible for transfers to
the nearby Isuzu plant when it opens. GM expects
300 will transfer and the rest will have retired by the
time the new plant is running.
GM Chairman Jack Smith is to dedicate the new
plant today in a ceremony with Isuzu Chairman
Kazuhira Seki.
GM, which owns 37.5 percent of Isuzu, has been
giving the Japanese automaker more work in the
diesel field. Last year, Isuzu took the reins in
worldwide diesel-engine development for GM. That
was part of GM's initiative to focus development in
the hands of companies that have the most
expertise. For example, GM's Adam Opel AG
operation in Germany was given the lead in
small-car development.
For Isuzu, the new factory would give it the
opportunity to become a major engine maker in the
United States, especially if diesel engines come into
wider acceptance among consumers.
Diesels power about 22 percent of Europe's cars
and a new generation of direct-injection diesels
common in Europe is thought to be less harmful to
the environment than gasoline engines. Some
industry analysts predict diesels will become
increasingly popular in the Untied States because of
the environmental angle and their greater fuel
economy .
"In the long run, you're looking at increased demand
for diesels, particularly in sport-utility vehicles," said
auto analyst Jim Gillette of the research firm
International Research Network Inc. in Grand
Rapids.
The new plant will have the capacity to turn out
about 100,000 6.6-liter, V8 engines a year,
estimated industry analyst Michael Robinet of CSM
Forecasting in Farmington Hills.
Those engines will go into commercial trucks,
replacing the current generation of 6.5-liter diesel
made in Moraine. And they'll be available for
passenger vehicles such as the full-size C/K pickup
trucks and the Chevrolet Suburban sport-utility.
I heard the horsepower and torque #'s from 2 unrelated people: a dealer who is a good friend of mine, and 2) an tech that works at a diesel fuel pump repair shop; he has been to a seminar covering new automotive fuel pumps, and the engines they go on.
The new Silverado is pretty nice. I haven't driven one yet, but I like the room in the extended cab. I expect that the 3500 series will be equally as good. I am waiting for the dually to arrive, sounds like 2001 possibly. If the new diesel is ready then, it could be real competition for Ford and Dodge. GM just can't afford to screw up another diesel though!!! Let's hope the Isuzu relationship works and GM doesn't ruin a good thing!
Thanks again for all the info all!
I had always been a GM man. I got spoiled by my first Ford F-250, ('86) and never looked back. My '99 F-250 7.3L PSD rides almost as smooth as my son's '98 Explorer Sport. The '86 was great in quality, a '92 F-250 even better and this '99 is unbelievable! This is the first new vehicle that hasn't been back to the dealer for nit picking issues. Back in the late '70s and early '80s I wouldn't even rent Fords due to poor quality. But things have really changed. I think that if you got yourself a '99 PDS you wouldn't be disappointed.
The only complaints that I have with my '99 SC F-250 PSD are no lights in the cup holders and the trailer towing blind spot mirrors don't allow for adjustment. (Their aiming ain't bad but just not perfect.) How's that for nit picking?
Rich
They say it will resemble the next ram trucks in the coming years, and the diesel engine, well its it CAT! 250hp, and 780LBS torque. Dodge must have something brewing with CAT and I hope it falls through. And I also hope that they keep the cummins as well. All I know is that dodges next truck is really really going to kill the competition!
Then you better check some sales figures. Ford and Dodge are #1 and #2 in diesel pickup sales. GM isn't even close. And Ford is ahead of Dodge strictly on volume. If Dodge and Cummins could raise production with more plants, they could easily be the number one diesel pickup. GM has always fallen flat on its face with diesel pickups - first the converted Olds 350 (what a joke in a truck), then the weak 6.2, then the problematic 6.5. I will give GM all the credit in the world for doing some things well (automatic transmissions for one), but diesels aren't one of those things.
i've seen quite a few different 6.5's in use, and all in all, they've done the job. No, they definitely don't run like a PS, they don't have the mileage of the Cummins, but it is more powerful than most other motors. my father's work truck is a 3500-HD with the 6.5. the truck weighs 13000 empty. have pulled, on several occaisions, a 25 ft Load King, with Cat D-6 on back, comes out to over 20,000 #'s being pulled. the truck handled it easliy, and the engine pulled it flawlessly. slowly of course, but with overload like that, you don't try to go fast anyway. anyway, the engine will do the job. the 6.5's have had lots of random problems.
they just haven't been reliable. the 6.5's i've seen that have avoided problems--have been damn good motors.
My dad's truck has been a good one. he just recieved a new one, ordererd it for business reasons, and as soon as he took delivery of the new one (with a 454), the diesel blew a head gasket. they just haven't been reliable engines.
My crappy 7.3L ford went 170,000 miles with very little problems.
I would never buy anything that Isuzu made, sold or designed.
Buy a cummins dodge. Or buy gas
i don't think the percentage means a whole lot, but lets please not get in a discussion about important meaningful statistics---that could be an oxymoron,
I only posted the percentages because it shows how many of the average truck buyer are interested in that company's diesel offering. If sales were equal, Dodge would clearly be the diesel leader. GM buyers on the other hand, buy all those pickups, but stay away from the 6.5
1) pick out a brand of truck, then
2) decide on an engine
I'm saying that people
1) pick out the engine they need , then
2) pick out the brand of truck
my way says the percentage is a meaningless number. divide actual one-tons up, you'll see dodge and chevy sell close to the same; then look at half tons, and you'll see chevy sells a crap load more half tons than dodge. but do all these half tons chevy's (which compromise the greater part of GM's sales number) compete with the diesel? No.
that percentage compares people who buy a shortbed with v6 to people who buy one ton crewcab diesels. thats why i say its not a good measure. look at what you did, you made me talk stats...
I agree with you in that it is overall numbers which include all models of a truck. But remember this - the GM half tons are the only trucks that offer a diesel. So while Ford and Dodge only offer theirs on HD 3/4 and 1 ton trucks, the GM 6.5 is available across the board in all their trucks.
Without talking stats and percentages, you still have to wonder why GM can't sell more oil-buners than Dodge, unless their engine IS that inferior.
You missed my point. Ford has put everything from 140-inch 4 cylinders to 429-inch V8s under the hoods of Mustangs - all of them will move the load that a Mustang is capable of carrying. But if you need to carry more than 4 people and a lot of cargo, even a 429 Mustang won't get it done, because there's no room or weight capacity. You need a larger stronger vehicle to do it. As Chevy showed a few years back, a 454 can get under the hood of a half ton, but are you going to pull a fully loaded horse trailer with a 454SS? The GMC Syclone had a nearly 300hp turbo V6 under the hood, but it only had a payload of 500 pounds. Are you going to throw a pallet full of cinder blocks back there? It's the chassis that holds the weight - almost any engine can move it, albeit some slower than others.
that is not the diesel going into the trucks. One bad incident does not mean the whole line is junk. you had a lemon sorry for that, let each choose what they want in there truck.
The diesel is the one you see in the large isuzu delivery trucks or (tow trucks around here). I know nothing about it. Other than people in the diesel industry who use them for what they are meant for (not because they sound good) say it is a great engine that runs circles around others.
Yes the 6.5 sucks. To me it is just another option other than gas. GM has not been trying to compete in the diesel engine class, because they have had nothing to compete with.
Like before alot of the Dodge,Ford guys seem to be ripping GM apart before the product is even on the market. Saw it on the Silverado post now its happening here. What till the product is out, and you see what it actually does.
I question CAT putting a diesel in Dodge. Why would they back out of a deal with GM because the numbers are to low for them to build a whole new plant. Then all of a sudden sell it to dodge. Yes dodge may sell more diesel now but not enough to build a whole new plant. Sounds like rumor to me. Plus I see alot of posts of dodge owners having transmission problems. How could it all of a sudden handle a CAT engine. Besides CAT does huge diesel applications, and that is about it. My two cents on the CAT thing.
I really dont know jack about the motor but wish someone could help me decide if thsi is a "bad risk" diesel.
What has specifically been the shortcomings of it
What kind of fuel efficiency can I expect?
Should I just avoid the engine??
Please shoot straight with me
I can't tell you anything about the 6.5's fuel mileage, but I can tell you it has some big shortcomings. The 6.5 isn't even comparable to the Dodge or Ford in the power department. Another big problem with the 6.5s is the injector pump. They are notorious for going out and I've heard many stories of GM trucks with the 6.5 diesel being in the shop more than they are on the road. Definitely go with something else, I would be willing to trust either a Ford Powerstroke or a Dodge Cummins.
If it weren't for that problem, it would be a fine choice.
Yes, I know about the numbers. Ford is at the top of the heap, with 500 ft/lbs of torque. Next is Dodge at 440 ft/lbs, then Chevy at 430 ft/lbs. But that's still plenty of power.
As for this business about Dodge putting a CAT under the hood... they better work on beefing up their trannys! They haven't been standing up very well to the torque the Cummins is putting out. How do they expect it to handle more? Maybe they'll put an industrial strength Allison tranny in it to handle all that power. Who knows?
If you're buying a 6.5 for a daily driver and almost always empty, the 6.5 may work out for you. If you're buying a work truck, maybe not.
If you're buying a used truck, do you KNOW how it was used previously? Has it always received DIESEL maintenance? Has the engine always been run with a fuel lubricity enhancer to lubricate the injection pump? What about cavitation damage in the cooling system? Are there WRITTEN maintenance records? There should be no real problem if the truck has been maintained properly. Is the dealer willing to give you a 2 year, 24K warranty on the engine? If the truck has been taken care of, the warranty is a safe bet for the dealer.
Now let me stir up some emotionalism!
I've always found that the cheapest vehicle to purchase is a new one. About the time the vehicle starts costing money to maintain, I get rid of it. (On the last two F-250s this was in the 120 to 130 K-Mile range.) The question that you have to answer for yourself is, when does this expensive maintenance life start on the vehicle you're considering. Finally, there usually isn't that much difference in the payments between new and used. Used are usually a higher interest rate for a shorter term.
Good luck with your decision,
Rich
they are right when they say it has problems with the injecter pump. you never know when it will go out.
It seems that some trucks replace them anually. An there are other trucks or suv's that have not had one problem.
WEIRD, My GUESS since they didn't keep it they have had problems. ONLY A GUESS. Safer to skip it
little confused on your post, just got back from vacation. I heard the Isuzu "delivery truck" straight 6 engine, wasn't going in the new Chevys. i was told it was a v8.
your right I was talking out my butt. Surprised anyone heard me.
What it is not is the diesel that was in isuzu troopers an there small trucks
To verify go to http://www.auto.com/industry/qgm9.htm
found this in the archived topics #339
Guess who Chrysler just merged with.
Guess who's transmissions are most likely going to wind up in dodge trucks in place of the Chryco ones.
Are Daimler-Benz heavy truck transmissions suddenly weak, too?
Source for allsion tranny, www.car-truck.com
stanford is right - the Navistar 7.3 (aka the T444E) is just as detuned for Ford as the Cummins is for Dodge. They are both medium duty engines. The GM 6.2/6.5 on the other hqnd, is maxed out, as it was designed for light duty trucks. The related GM 8.2 V8 was a medium duty, but it suffered from poor sales and hasn't been offered in years.