At the Philly show, the Nox seemed to be the loaded model with leather, sunroof, larger wheels, etc. Ok so I am in the same bind as some of the others on this board with an expiring SUV lease in May (Envoy), looking for something smaller, in possession of GM points and not knowing what to get. The Escape/Tribute is a possibility but the styling is old. The Pacifica is one of the best values out there but won't fit in my garage. That may leave the Pilot or Highlander although they will be quite a bit more expensive I think. The CRV I know has a great reputation but I was very unimpressed with the interior. It looks like an old Isuzu inside with very strange dash features and an parking brake from Mars. I was trying to avoid a conventional wagon although I was impressed by the '05 6 and the Legacy. The new Outback looks great but it will likely be out too late. Thoughts?
Thanks for the advice. This vehicle will be primarily driven by my wife. While she would not be adverse to driving a Chevy SUV, she would not be happy with a Malibu Maxx. I do like the Liberty but she thinks it's too truck-like in its appearance and ride. I may steer her to the 6 and Subaru wagons if I can. Otherwise, it looks like the other Japanese crossovers may be our only option. I will reserve my final decision until I read a good review of the Nox however.
I had the chance to sit in that one, too. Much better overall package than the Nox. If I had a substantial discount from GM, this is the car I'd be looking at.
but a Envoy does? I doubt you could even get a good lease deal on a Nox so early or any new model just comming out. Crazy but check out the SRX, C&D said Caddy's giving dealer an extra $3K to push them as they're not moving. Maybe you can pick up a base model to lease at a not to bad rate. Yea, I know, it's no 25K mini-SUV, but your wife will love you. Buick RDV Ultra's probably not a bad ride with the 3.6L engine.
If you don't like the interior of the Equinox, the Saturn Vue has a nicely updated interior on the V6 models. I have seen it and though it's not "upscale" like some here seem to think it should be, it's as good or better than anything in this price range.
I am looking forward to seeing an Equinox to compare to my Vue. BTW, we love our Vue and it's been rock solid. Coming from a Honda, we have not been disappointed.
SRX is tight in the 3rd row, no head room and no where to put your feet. The Ford Freestyle is smaller but roomier in both regards.
So you could wait for the Freestyle to arrive, but that'll be fall. It uses the Volvo P2 platform (S80!), with a Duratec 3.0l engine.
Pacifica is getting heavy discounts now, too.
The Forester XT uses a de-tuned WRX STi engine. It's cool, it's not a built-up 2.5l, it's a toned down 2.5T with the semi-closed deck block, forged pistons, and AVCS variable valve timing. Published specs are 210 hp/235 lb-ft but on the dyno it's making 250 hp/265 lb-ft, so Subaru has understated power.
It's compact, but if you fit inside, and drive it, you'll love it.
If you find it small wait for the Outback XT due in June, also a 2.5 turbo with 250/250 stated power figures. It would make a good crossover/inbetween vehicle, with 8.7" of clearance, plus heated seats and side curtain air bags will be standard. Worth the wait IMO.
Thanks guys. Yes, the Pacifica is larger than the Envoy (length and width) and the Envoy barely fits in my garage. The SRX would be nice and I really wouldn't use the 3rd row anyway. Will check out those prices in the Spring. Outback may be worth waiting for from everything I read. I am not ready to absolutely rule out the Nox but I'm pessimistic about it.
Which would you rather have? A bland, boxy crossover with an excellent interior, good interior space, and all of those things, or would you rather have the Equinox with its low-grade interior, old-tech Chinese engine, badly designed cargo bed, and all that? I think the sales numbers for these two will tell the story.
I would take the box. I am not in to trying to impress others with outer look of my cars. That is why we bought our Buick Renv. Odd looking on the outside, but incredible space on the inside.
If the freestyle has great space and interior features, then I will definitely take it over a equinox. Waiting for both to show up somewhere near by where I can go look at them.
I am considering another Renv, but I really don't want two of the same car.
You can't tell me that I should pick a vehicle without making style a major criterion. I'm not saying I will pick a Nox but its style will be an important factor in the overall decision. For example, I think the Forrester is a great vehicle but I wouldn't buy it because I don't like the way it looks and I wouldn't feel comfortable driving it. (Actually, this is for my wife and she is even more focused on style than I am). Well, you have all given me some good food for thought. Right now, I'm thinking I'll wait until late April and see what the pricing is on a variety of vehicles and make the decision.
I do not understand the need to worry so much about styling. I tend to buy stuff because I like it or not. It may happened to be the latest style or it may happen to be the completely out of style. I just want something that is ideal for my family and anyone else we transport. For example, the Rendv fits the joggling stroller so we can go to the hike and bike or running. It also is lower to the ground and has handles which makes it easy for my mom to get in when we visit her. I could go on on about features. If we bought based on what was in style, we would have bought something else since Buick are supposedly for people a lot older then us and many of our friends think the car is not cool enough.
The interior just isn't that bad aside from maybe a poor back seat. The "old tech" engine you speak of is likely smoother than most if not all of the 4 cyl competition.
I'll bet the Equinox will sell like gangbusters in spite of the rear space issue. Most people who drive these small SUVs are not hauling a lot of cargo, just kids to hockey practice and groceries.
Looks like a big, tall wagon. Did you notice the raised roof? The roof rack sort of hides it, like the old Durango.
It is pretty vanilla but buyers like that, look at the Explorer's sales.
I see it as a potential bargain. It's a Volvo P2 platform (think S80), for $25-30 grand, with a DOHC V6 and 6 speed auto, or CVT with AWD. It's gonna eat the Pacifica's lunch.
Dan165 - Yes, I agree that the Nox will do well with certain parts of the population. While I'm obviously not a fan of the cargo area, it is still comparable with smaller rigs like the RAV4. Some folks don't need a whole lot of space. It's just that it hasn't got the jump on any of the competition in other areas, either.
The V6 is probably okay, but it's not as good as the Saturn's new 3.5, the Escape's 3.0, and those who realy want acceleration may go for the Forester's turbo power.
The cargo area is okay, but it doesn't compare with the CR-V's volume, the Escape's regular shape, or even the VUE's cargo area. You mentioned people with kids, but the back seems to prohibit strollers.
The back seat has lots of room, but the seats stink. The same backroom can be found in an Escape, CR-V, Santa Fe, or several others that also have better seat cushions.
It's not a bad vehicle, and it will sell. But it won't lead the pack in any way, shape, or form. I think with GM's resources, they could have done much better.
No it's not the best V6 but I'm sure it will be fine and with a base price of around $26000 (about $20000 US), it seems well priced vs the competition. I'll have to take a look at the payload area and see what it looks like up close. You may be right on that point and no it's not a class leader but it's looks alone (this is a very attractive package on the outside) will sell it big anyway. I know a few people who drive these smaller SUVs and neither of them use it as a main family vehicle. They just want the cool second SUV. Haha.
I had a 3.1L Chevy ten years ago and it idled like a washing machine. Same junk. Most 4 cyl today are OHC (or DOHC) all aluminum 24 valve with VVT that get much better MPG even without a 5sp auto. I'm sure when the track numbers come out on this slug, a CRV will easily beat it. No I don't haul cargo with my old CRV, but I was able to bring home a dishwasher and 32" TV boxes with the 34" width between the wheel wells. Plus the wells only stuck up 3". This dumb shelf and shock towers only get in the way. Some small st. wagons might have more useable space then the Nox. The Nox is eye candy only.
Styling and easy access to 1200 dealers are two big selling points. I bet fleets gobble these up, too. Just beware of resale value if that does happen.
The Blazers are probably being pitched as a cheap fleet truck. Of course if the Nox's start to pile up and sales in general are down (as they were in Jan.) GM will sell to anyone.
Hopefully Chevy fixed this 3.4L a little up. I have rented one to many GM cars with 3.1s, 3.4s, and 3.8s and I hated each one of those engines. At a red light and on a regular day, they would vibrate as if it were cold...and these weren't even that old, only about 5K on them! I've heard good things though about Subaru's H4 and that it runs very smoothly. Anyone else heard about that??
I agree with those who think the Nox will sell very well. Why? Because of styling, not because of cargo, interior quality or the engine. It's a fact that people buy what looks nice and are willing to compromise on features. As for Freestyle, I am sure that those not much into style will buy it for its features. I agree it's well laid out and seems to be priced well.
Well, it will sell well. But I want to clarify on saying that it will sell only because of its looks. I do know for a fact that people buy cars depending on how the interior looks and feels. That too is one huge factor.
I had a rental Alero a few months ago with a 3.4L and it was just fine. Lots of torque and it idled just fine, certainly better than our previous Civic. I have no issue with the 3.4 at all, I don't think you can compare a V6 from 10 years ago to one made today. I know all car makers constantly tweak engines for efficiency and refinement.
The 3.0L in our Vue is an OHC engine and I would say that the 3.4L in the rental Alero was no more/less refined.
especialy with AWD. I could live with OHV (I do now) but the 3.5L would have been better. The Tracker/Blazer is dead, I hope after '04. So since Saturn is not big on fleet sales, the Nox will be pumped out in high mass in '05. If Pontiac get's a Theta, it will probably get an engine/interior upgrade. I wonder if the Vue's plastic panels are doomed and it will pick up the Nox's sheetmetal if sales take off.
The turbo Subies are nice - you get a de-tuned STi engine, not a built-up 2.5l from the regular N/A versions of those cars. That means forged pistons, semi-closed deck blocks, serious over-engineering for the turbos.
Basically they are the EJ257 block, same as the STi, not the EJ255 from the 165hp Subarus.
If you want smooth and quiet the H6 is better there, the turbos accelerate like monsters though. 0-60 for the new Legacy turbo is estimated at 5.5 seconds!
When does the car go on sale. I heard spring but when I contacted the local dealer he said August. Do they have a date or not. I like the way Scion did it. They said way ahead of time: California:jun03, gulf/eastcoast feb04, everywhere else jun04. And they stuck with the dates and the cars are a big hit.
that cars would be arriving to dealers mid-March. Now I guess the Cunucks will see them before the West Coast. People are seeing them running around Ontario, probably doing some pre-production testing. FYI. It's a porker: 5070 lbs. With that 3.4L it won't get out of its own way. Now you know why the MPG numbers stink.
First off, I'm not sure why people don't like the back seat. It has tons of leg room compared to anything in this class. I had sat in an Escape about 20 minutes earlier and really didn't find the seat much less comfortable and it had much less in the way of leg space. I'm about 6 ft tall and to me, leg room is really important so in my eyes, the Equinox back seat is a quantum leap for small SUVs.
On the other hand there is the cargo area. I spoke with the GM rep and his take on the pillars was they were needed to support the table or tray for added cargo stacking ability / tail gating utility. It's actually quite strong and one can put stuff under it and suit cases on top for example. I can see it's use now but how usefull that top space is isn't clear to me.
I looked under the hood also and all looked fine to me, no "rust". Over all I was impressed with the look and feel of this small SUV. Inside material quality was average but it all looked good. People looking for a van substitute however can forget about it as it just doesn't have any more cargo room than other small SUVs in spite of the larger size.
Joey No way the Nox weighs 5070. I know that Edmunds lists it at that weight but a Trailblazer is 4660 and a VUE is 3590. I bet it's no more than 4200. I think Edmunds is wrong. PS In my business, "Nox" is Nitrous Oxide.
a gm rep told me in January that the fwd Nox weight was 3605lbs. dan165--how was the padding for the rear seat? someone wrote on here that it was hard as a board. does the rear seat have a lap/shoulder belt and headrest for the center person? did you sit in a LS or LT? leather or cloth? 17" wheels? we are very interested in the nox and would like to hear more on your take of this auto. thanks
Sorry that was GVWR which is car plus max load of 1290 on FWD and 1157 on AWD so the Nox AWD is 3913 and FWD is 3780. Still needs to be drivien to Jenny Craig or get the Honda 3.5. LOL. Edmunds new car pricing has the Nox and option prices.
Rhouser, I think the Equinox they had was an LT with leather for sure. It had 17 inch wheels with alloy rims. The seat padding was fine to me, not as good as a typical sedan but comparable with other small SUVs. To me the leg room was the more noticeable feature, at 6 ft. tall my legs were feeling good and that is rare in this class!
The one Equinox they had was getting a lot of attention. I walked by a few times and there were always people in and out of it and few around. Chev should sell lots of these no problem.
dan165 thanks for the info. what ever suv we buy, we want the side curtain airbags. i read somewhere that these airbags are designed to inflate in a rollover accident. do these airbags inflate in only a rollover, rollover/side impact, front impact and side impact? all of the above?
I saw the Nox at the Chicago Autoshow. I sat in back first, and didn't think it was bad. Sat in front and thought it was awful. Those plastics belong in a Kia. Then I went in sat in the Liberty, Escape, and CR-V and concluded that everything in this class is bad news.
are you sure you went in there with the right perspective.
Do not compare with the 30k SUVs. The reason I am looking at these cars is that I am not going to spend 25k+ on a car. I do not need the best, I just want something that works and fits my families needs. For one thing there is no such thing as the best. Its a myth. There will always be something better and there is the subjectivity of the matter.
My goal is to pay under 20k or near it. I still think that is too much for a car that will depreciate immediately. I rather put the money in my kids college fund, private school, retirement, ....
When you say they all are bad, I get the feeling you are looking at it from a global SUV viewpoint which includes cars that range from 18-70k. Yes 70k, I saw an Escalade for 70k when picking up my buick from service. There was a lady there with a 50k version that was disappointed because she and her kids now wanted the 70k one. (wanted more, wanted the so called best).
I saw the escape and compared to 30-50k cars, it looks really bad, but compared to 18-20k, its not bad at all.
I think people wanting something that looks like an SUV will consider the Nox, whereas those interested in a wagon will consider the Legacy etc. The SUV crowd probably won't buy the wagons except for perhaps the Outback. Regardless of its drawbacks, I still put my money on robust Nox sales. The average buyer doesn't read these boards or Car and Driver reviews. They might look at the crash and rollover tests and of course that's a big question for this vehicle. It might not be until the Fall that we know how it does. The styling will win buyers for this vehicle.
should be as good or beter then Vue with the extra weight and steel panels. Side curtains will get a passing grade on the side impact tests like the Escape. All these wehicles are almost pushing the 30K figure, they are not "around" 20K. No SUV will ever have the handling of a small wagon. I know I want to have the ground clearance for snow and the tall/wide cargo space. Trucks and SUV's IMO, don't get leather and 2" thick carpet. When I go cruising, break out the sport sedan. But it's that 3.4L that ticks me off. When you got a full load in a car/SUV, nothing worse then the fear of merging onto a highway with a dog motor. Can we say HEMI!
The Vue has top marks in pretty much every category. Someone here might have a link, I'm not sure. If you check consumer reports, it's one of the big pluses for the Vue. Makes you feel warm and fuzzy doesn't it? ;-)
Actually the Subaru Forester came out on top because the side air bags are standards plus they protect the head.
Vue has curtains, but they're optional. IIHS tests the cheapest model available.
Forester is the only compact SUV with perfect scores. NHTSA quadruple 5 stars, IIHS Best Pick for front offset, and best score ever in IIHS side impacts.
Comments
Ok so I am in the same bind as some of the others on this board with an expiring SUV lease in May (Envoy), looking for something smaller, in possession of GM points and not knowing what to get. The Escape/Tribute is a possibility but the styling is old. The Pacifica is one of the best values out there but won't fit in my garage.
That may leave the Pilot or Highlander although they will be quite a bit more expensive I think. The CRV I know has a great reputation but I was very unimpressed with the interior. It looks like an old Isuzu inside with very strange dash features and an parking brake from Mars. I was trying to avoid a conventional wagon although I was impressed by the '05 6 and the Legacy.
The new Outback looks great but it will likely be out too late.
Thoughts?
You might want to consider a Malibu Maxx if you have GM points, that 3500 engine is nice and it's usefully shaped.
-juice
What about a Liberty? Its gotten good reviews and seems well put together. Distinctive appearance too.
Juice has a good point about the Maxx.
I had the chance to sit in that one, too. Much better overall package than the Nox. If I had a substantial discount from GM, this is the car I'd be looking at.
I am looking forward to seeing an Equinox to compare to my Vue. BTW, we love our Vue and it's been rock solid. Coming from a Honda, we have not been disappointed.
So you could wait for the Freestyle to arrive, but that'll be fall. It uses the Volvo P2 platform (S80!), with a Duratec 3.0l engine.
Pacifica is getting heavy discounts now, too.
The Forester XT uses a de-tuned WRX STi engine. It's cool, it's not a built-up 2.5l, it's a toned down 2.5T with the semi-closed deck block, forged pistons, and AVCS variable valve timing. Published specs are 210 hp/235 lb-ft but on the dyno it's making 250 hp/265 lb-ft, so Subaru has understated power.
It's compact, but if you fit inside, and drive it, you'll love it.
If you find it small wait for the Outback XT due in June, also a 2.5 turbo with 250/250 stated power figures. It would make a good crossover/inbetween vehicle, with 8.7" of clearance, plus heated seats and side curtain air bags will be standard. Worth the wait IMO.
-juice
The SRX would be nice and I really wouldn't use the 3rd row anyway. Will check out those prices in the Spring.
Outback may be worth waiting for from everything I read.
I am not ready to absolutely rule out the Nox but I'm pessimistic about it.
If the freestyle has great space and interior features, then I will definitely take it over a equinox. Waiting for both to show up somewhere near by where I can go look at them.
I am considering another Renv, but I really don't want two of the same car.
Well, you have all given me some good food for thought. Right now, I'm thinking I'll wait until late April and see what the pricing is on a variety of vehicles and make the decision.
I'll bet the Equinox will sell like gangbusters in spite of the rear space issue. Most people who drive these small SUVs are not hauling a lot of cargo, just kids to hockey practice and groceries.
Looks like a big, tall wagon. Did you notice the raised roof? The roof rack sort of hides it, like the old Durango.
It is pretty vanilla but buyers like that, look at the Explorer's sales.
I see it as a potential bargain. It's a Volvo P2 platform (think S80), for $25-30 grand, with a DOHC V6 and 6 speed auto, or CVT with AWD. It's gonna eat the Pacifica's lunch.
-juice
The V6 is probably okay, but it's not as good as the Saturn's new 3.5, the Escape's 3.0, and those who realy want acceleration may go for the Forester's turbo power.
The cargo area is okay, but it doesn't compare with the CR-V's volume, the Escape's regular shape, or even the VUE's cargo area. You mentioned people with kids, but the back seems to prohibit strollers.
The back seat has lots of room, but the seats stink. The same backroom can be found in an Escape, CR-V, Santa Fe, or several others that also have better seat cushions.
It's not a bad vehicle, and it will sell. But it won't lead the pack in any way, shape, or form. I think with GM's resources, they could have done much better.
-juice
-juice
As for Freestyle, I am sure that those not much into style will buy it for its features. I agree it's well laid out and seems to be priced well.
The 3.0L in our Vue is an OHC engine and I would say that the 3.4L in the rental Alero was no more/less refined.
The Tracker/Blazer is dead, I hope after '04. So since Saturn is not big on fleet sales, the Nox will be pumped out in high mass in '05. If Pontiac get's a Theta, it will probably get an engine/interior upgrade. I wonder if the Vue's plastic panels are doomed and it will pick up the Nox's sheetmetal if sales take off.
Basically they are the EJ257 block, same as the STi, not the EJ255 from the 165hp Subarus.
If you want smooth and quiet the H6 is better there, the turbos accelerate like monsters though. 0-60 for the new Legacy turbo is estimated at 5.5 seconds!
-juice
Now I guess the Cunucks will see them before the West Coast. People are seeing them running around Ontario, probably doing some pre-production testing. FYI. It's a porker: 5070 lbs. With that 3.4L it won't get out of its own way. Now you know why the MPG numbers stink.
On the other hand there is the cargo area. I spoke with the GM rep and his take on the pillars was they were needed to support the table or tray for added cargo stacking ability / tail gating utility. It's actually quite strong and one can put stuff under it and suit cases on top for example. I can see it's use now but how usefull that top space is isn't clear to me.
I looked under the hood also and all looked fine to me, no "rust". Over all I was impressed with the look and feel of this small SUV. Inside material quality was average but it all looked good. People looking for a van substitute however can forget about it as it just doesn't have any more cargo room than other small SUVs in spite of the larger size.
No way the Nox weighs 5070. I know that Edmunds lists it at that weight but a Trailblazer is 4660 and a VUE is 3590. I bet it's no more than 4200.
I think Edmunds is wrong.
PS In my business, "Nox" is Nitrous Oxide.
dan165--how was the padding for the rear seat? someone wrote on here that it was hard as a board. does the rear seat have a lap/shoulder belt and headrest for the center person? did you sit in a LS or LT? leather or cloth? 17" wheels? we are very interested in the nox and would like to hear more on your take of this auto.
thanks
Is "nox" pricing available now?
1290 on FWD and 1157 on AWD so the Nox AWD is 3913 and FWD is 3780. Still needs to be drivien to Jenny Craig or get the Honda 3.5. LOL.
Edmunds new car pricing has the Nox and option prices.
Here's the updated specs:
http://www.chevylaunch.com/docs/EQUINOX_SPECS.PDF
The one Equinox they had was getting a lot of attention. I walked by a few times and there were always people in and out of it and few around. Chev should sell lots of these no problem.
Do not compare with the 30k SUVs. The reason I am looking at these cars is that I am not going to spend 25k+ on a car. I do not need the best, I just want something that works and fits my families needs. For one thing there is no such thing as the best. Its a myth. There will always be something better and there is the subjectivity of the matter.
My goal is to pay under 20k or near it. I still think that is too much for a car that will depreciate immediately. I rather put the money in my kids college fund, private school, retirement, ....
When you say they all are bad, I get the feeling you are looking at it from a global SUV viewpoint which includes cars that range from 18-70k. Yes 70k, I saw an Escalade for 70k when picking up my buick from service. There was a lady there with a 50k version that was disappointed because she and her kids now wanted the 70k one. (wanted more, wanted the so called best).
I saw the escape and compared to 30-50k cars, it looks really bad, but compared to 18-20k, its not bad at all.
Regardless of its drawbacks, I still put my money on robust Nox sales. The average buyer doesn't read these boards or Car and Driver reviews. They might look at the crash and rollover tests and of course that's a big question for this vehicle. It might not be until the Fall that we know how it does. The styling will win buyers for this vehicle.
Trucks and SUV's IMO, don't get leather and 2" thick carpet. When I go cruising, break out the sport sedan. But it's that 3.4L that ticks me off. When you got a full load in a car/SUV, nothing worse then the fear of merging onto a highway with a dog motor. Can we say HEMI!
Vue has curtains, but they're optional. IIHS tests the cheapest model available.
Forester is the only compact SUV with perfect scores. NHTSA quadruple 5 stars, IIHS Best Pick for front offset, and best score ever in IIHS side impacts.
Let's see how the 'nox does.
-juice