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Sorry just the pessimist in me.
Rocky
I think you will see a rise in federal, state and local gas taxes. Not to further any agenda but because these governments are claiming they don't have the money for road maintenance. They do have somewhat of a point. The federal gas tax of 18.4 cents a gallon is the same as it was in 1993 so it obviously hasn't kept up with inflation. Actually I'd like to see a reduction in the federal tax and have more shifted to the local level. On the federal level it is just a big pork barrel fund used for doling out favors or witheld to punish states into submission.
That's been tried before. Actually under a Republican administration (Nixon). The result was gas shortages, which is far worse than high prices. Hopefully that memory is recent enough that our government won't make the same mistake anytime soon.
Don't think that would ever fly... people would like it, until the shortages hit.
I couldn't agree more. That's why it amazes me when people get so wrapped up in partisan politics. The only real difference between the parties is in their rhetoric. The actual differences are fairly trivial.
Rocky
Rocky
Odd that the Shell stations have disappeared from the area in post 5864 like they have here. It seems like the one company dominating is the goal for an area. Here it's Marathon with lots of other brand stations having become Marathons. And Marathon has Speedway, GasAmerica, and a new brand name some of their Speedway stations in less desirable, lower traffic areas became. I can't recall the name right now.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Any takers on a guess
Rocky
I read an article today that stated 59% of the US population supports some type of increased gas tax. I'd always thought that I was in the minority when it came to that position.
http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fsb/fsb_archive/2006/12/01/8395106/index.htm?post- version=2006112807
Rocky
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
1. Public transportation use skyrocketed.
2. Smaller, more efficient cars and hybrids and diesels sold better while large gas hogs did worse.
3. People started carpooling more and used their resources and imagination to cut back on driving.
If market forces can do that, then an increased gas tax should be able to do the same thing. I'm all for it, as long as the tax money collected gets used properly, like teacher raises and increased funding for clean air programs.
The side benefits would include FORCING BIG OIL to start looking more into alternatives and stop pushing oil like the drug we are addicted to.
P.S. Many "usage taxes" are designed to help people help themselves - like the cigarette tax is intended to get people to quit smoking. Higher gas taxes would encourage less driving of individual cars and gas hogs, which in the end is good for EVERYONE.
P.S.P.S. Gas prices in Phoenix are $2.13, which is up 9 cents from a month ago.
Rocky
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Rocky
I don't really want to pay any more for gas but a tax seems like the most effective and simplest mechanism for addressing our excessive fuel consumption. If its revenue neutral, which most people are suggesting, than it really will only take money out of the pockets of the biggest consumers. Kind of the point. Imposing higher CAFE standards or encouraging voluntary conservation unfortunately just doesn't work. Now if you are of the opinion that there is no reason for us to reduce our fuel consumption then you will obviously oppose any measure that addresses this issue.
Actually the article was from Fortune Small Business. CNN just reprinted it. And if you read the article they weren't proposing more taxes just a shift in taxes. If a tax can be viewed as a fine does it make more sense to fine someone for working or for burning fuel? I guess with income taxes you can use them as a tool for wealth re-distribution. Kind of a liberal notion, which I believe you were criticizing CNN for being.
Rocky
If higher fuel taxes really did benefit Big Oil then I'm pretty sure the current administration would be all for it.
There's a very broad cross-section of groups and people that have now adopted the mindset that higher fuel taxes make sense. Alan Greenspan to name one.
How about this approach. Instead of higher fuel taxes lets let the leading economic experts determine what the actual cost of fuel is and let's start paying that at the pump.
Rocky
The additional tax thing is all reactionary garbage for those who long for dear old Michael Dukakis (or was it Michael Dotaxus) to run the show. It is just more people trying to use government to push their preferred way of life onto the masses that disagree. Note someone above said "raise taxes and increase salaries for teachers" - pure special interest stuff. If people really wanted to save fuel, all that would be selling right now are Civics and Civics only. Fact is tons of other cars sell that get a lot worse mileage, but you ask the people who buy them and they all say "someone should do something." Yeah - just not the guy in the gas-guzzling Benz who gave that answer.
Besides, all raising gas taxes does is take away yet another pleasure in life (driving for a little fun) and shift it more to the rich. The rich have enough pleasures compared to the poor ... let the little guy do something besides go to work and sit in a house at night with the lights out due to energy taxes - let him be able to afford a Sunday drive or something.
It drives me nuts. I watch the market for oil futures and the when PPB drops, it doesn't affect gas prices. But if it goes up, then hold on for the roller coaster ride upward. So annoying. I guess I can just heave a sigh of relief because it seems that no matter what happens, the price of gas here is just going to stay the same or go up. It's a lot easier to forget about holding my breath when I remember that.
87 - $2.099
89 - $2.199
91 - $2.259
93 - $2.299
diesel - $2.439
all up 4 cents...
kcram - Pickups Host
I agree with ricardohead. If John Kerry can drive around in six Suburbans I should be able to drive one without hassles from the anti-SUV extremists that wanted him in office.
The point is that IF they raise the fuel tax (which in my post I pointed out all the good things that MIGHT accomplish) that I would be *in favor of the tax only if the extra taxes went to beneficial programs such as teacher pay raises*.
There is no debating that driving more people away from gas guzzlers and making them THINK before plunking down $3K for that Tahoe, "do I REALLY need a Tahoe, or could a Ford Escape Hybrid do the job for me" is a good plan.
A better plan would be to put a fuel efficient diesel in a Tahoe sized vehicle so we do not have to jam our family into a tin can the size of an Escape. Small is fine for a 3 mile jaunt to the store. Not for a trip cross country. IMHO!!!
Rent an Explorer when you need that kind of room. You don't need it every day - at least VERY FEW people carry 6 or more people every day.
besides, it is way cheaper than trying to fly 4 people somewhere and have to rent a car too. jmo.
my kids are inviting their friends to vacation with us, so i'm thinking of going back to a big box truck.
I sell those....
I need to sell one more this month...
Badllyyy..
:P
I couldn't agree more. As one poster said a guy driving his wife and kids across country on a vacation shouldn't be punished. Driving is one of the few great pleasures we enjoy in this country. Raising gas taxes is only going to hurt the poor and middle class. The rich guy won't even notice the difference. I think the answer lies in the alternative fuel topic. That is where I believe we can find a logical fix.
Neways Dumas, gas prices are at $2.19 a gallon. I didn't drive down by the walley world to see if its still at $2.17
Rocky
I love the rich vs poor argument. Bring up the subject of gas taxes and everyone is an advocate for the poor. Talk about expanding social programs and there is a sudden and mysterious change in attitude. Actually I'm starting to come to the conclusion that I must be rich because a $1/gallon gas tax might cost me $600/year, which will have an unnoticeable impact on my lifestyle. And if it was offset by lower property taxes or income taxes it would have zero impact on my lifestyle.
I'm also not sure that driving is such a great pleasure for most people. With the ever increasing levels of congestion I suspect a good percentage of the drivers on our roadways are stressed out and would rather be somewhere else.
I do agree that alternative energy sources is the right direction to be heading in. The speed at which these are developed and adopted will be influenced by gas prices. We will all be better off when we are using something other than gas to power our vehicles, including the poor.
Regardless of whether high prices are due to taxes or market conditions they are somewhere in our future, which I personally welcome. I've noticed that oil stays around $60/barrel even though most of the information being released is bearish when it comes to oil prices. For instance, OPEC hasn't fully implemented their production cuts, the geo-political disturbances have faded into the background, US inventories are extremely high, and so far we've had mild weather in the northeast. That's not a good sign if you are looking forward to cheap oil because it indicates there is a lot of resistance to prices going down, much more than for prices going up.
Take it from someone who's been arounda while, there will be no offsetting of taxes on property or income if gas taxes are raised. Political taxing units _never_ do that; if they say they are, it's a shell game.
The problem is someone has to pay the cost of all services, be they schools, prisons, free healthcare for "poor," or building and repairing roads. States are viewing the higher amounts in dollars being spent on fuels thinking "They are paying 75% more for fuel than 3 years ago, but our gas taxes have only gone up 2%. How can we increase the gas tax without the public knowing it?"
The concept that the lower income or no income people shouldn't pay for the services from which they benefit is beyond me. That's left over from the decades of progressivism in the Federal Government--not to start a debate. Everyone has a fixed cost of providing fire, police, roads, snow removal, schools, etc., all of which all people should share equally.
Gas prices here have sunk to $2.049 but other areas of the metro have the max, restoration price of $2.299. I suspect we are back to the roving gas price competitions rather than having prices somewhat spread evenly throughout the metro. I filled up at Kroger for $1.969 after 10 cent discount from store card savings last month.
daytongasprices.com
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Well if it is totally left to the politicians then I might agree. What I would like to see is referendums offered by the individual states that specifically spell out how much the gas tax will go up and how much your property tax, or state income tax would go down. Then let the voters decide.
Gas prices moving up to $2.359 instead of $2.299 at all Speedway stations (alcohol) in the area. Most other stations will follow within 12 hours. It's Wednesday and this often occurs by Thursday morning--weekly restoration.
Daytongasprices.com
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
... You don't need a large house. If it is bigger than 600 sq ft, TAX IT!
... Our forefathers got by just fine without A/C's. TAX THEM!
... Toilet paper kills trees. TAX TP!
Clearly I don't believe in those taxes, and am offended at any concept of raising taxes to force "correct behavior." That people do seriously think that is a good thing ... frightens me. My dad once said that if he had known the amount of extreme social control the government is inflicting was to be reality, he would not have had children to subject to everyone's whims. Looking back at myself, I think it is a good thing I have no progeny to be slaves to your regulations, whims, and desire for control.
You clearly don't know where I'm coming from. I actually believe in minimal government intrusion in our lives. I think the government should only concern itself with those aspects of our society that can't be handled on the state, local or individual level. National security happens to be one of the few areas that rightfully falls within the feds domain. If you believe that our dependence on foreign and often times unfriendly and unstable regimes for 60% of our oil needs is not a legitimate cause for concern then I've got to wonder what sand dune you've had your head buried in for the past 30 years. And beyond the national security aspect it's also a matter of protecting our standard of living. Exporting 100s of billions of dollars every year has to eventually put a strain on our currency. To equate a fuel tax to a tax on toilet paper goes beyond lunacy.
That is because of these facts:
1. We waste too much oil.
2. Fossil fuels have become a necessity of life.
3. Many scientists believe this usage is contributing to rapid warming of the Earf.
4. The world oil supply is fragile at best, and world events will continue to drive the prices higher.
Now, for the first time ever, there are alternatives to burning (wasting) huge amounts of gasoline:
1. Good, clean diesel cars (at least in large numbers available in the 2008 model year).
2. Hybrid cars.
3. Quality, usable smaller cars which get 30+ MPG.
The government, whether you believe it or not, is here in part to PROTECT US from ourselves. Thus we have laws against murder, we have seatbelt usage laws, we have "you must have car insurance" laws, etc.
So the government legislating to protect us from our own stupidity as a society is not new.
Raising the gasoline tax is just ANOTHER way the government can protect us from our own stupidity. Higher gas prices mean more public transportation use, more carpooling, fewer "one driver only" cars on the roads, more smaller cars bought than SUV gas hogs, and less pollution overall.
All of those things are GOOD. For the "greater good of all."
Anyone against that is merely being selfish.
While we are definitely in agreement on the gas tax issue I take exception to your rational. The government is not supposed to protect the individual from his stupidity. It should only provide the individual with those services that he cannot provide for himself or be provided on a more local level. An effective energy policy has to be implemented on the federal level. I have always believed that a sizeable fuel tax is an integral part of any viable energy policy but its up to the people to ask the government for this. I'm coming to realize that the majority of Americans now think this is important and its time for the government to implement it for us. If the majority of Americans are too stupid to realize the folly of their ways then we deserve what we get.
Now if you believe that high fuel prices will expedite alternatives there are things that the individual can do. While I applaud your efforts to conserve it might actually be the absolute worst thing you can do. Sometimes you have to break something in order for everybody to realize that it needs fixing. What if the 25% or so of Americans that have the social conscious to conserve fuel suddenly realized that all they're accomplishing is pushing back the clock and helping to accomodate the glutonous nature of others. Now what if this group collectively decided to ditch their Prius's, Corollas, Civics, et al and trade them in for All American gas hogs and drive for no other reason than its an American birthright. While I realize this is all hypothetical, fantasyland BS it would drive the price of gas through the roof, thus accomplishing the objective.
I still can't fathom that people would actually encourage abandoning any form of freedom or choice and delegating it to some politician or brainless bureacrat. I guess your opinion of these people is higher than mine, but that wouldn't be a tough level to surpass. I will fight tooth, nail, knife, and bullet to protect my rights. I really don't care if you people want to give yours up - no one is stopping you from doing that voluntarily under the current system - but I by far need to be saved from the incessant control-happy whiners of the world more than they need to be saved from me, because I can virtually guarantee you I live more "green" than most of you. I do it by choice, but I do not encourage forceful imposition of my wants or preferred lifestyle on others. To do so is simply wrong, mildly put.