You will save some bucks by fueling 93 and 87 both to get 89.
I've actually thought about that, except that I don't have the patience! Plus, my truck only has a 16 gallon tank, and when I fill up it usually only takes 11-12 gallons. On top of that, around here the price of 89 often splits the middle between 87 and 93, so at best about all I'll get is 90 octane for the price of 89.
I appreciate your passion to discuss complex issues involving the effects of global political and socioeconomic factors upon various industries or the environment, but this discussion should be specifically limited to simple reports on local gas prices for quick member reference.
Please restrict all future posts in this particular discussion to reporting gas prices in your local area only. Any future posts not related to local gas prices will be removed without further notice. Thanks for your cooperation!
Thanks iluv - I needed a good laugh this a.m..... :P
Honestly though, have you taken a hard look at (fer instance) any of Exxon-Mobiles quarterly statements? If you look beyond the gross net profit (which is the only number ever quoted in the MSM) you can determine just how MUCH profit was made on the final sale of refined products (domestically) and also the quantity of refined products sold (domestically).
You'll find that typically, they make a profit of around $.08 to $0.10 per gallon of product sold.
"Please restrict all future posts in this particular discussion to reporting gas prices in your local area only. Any future posts not related to local gas prices will be removed without further notice. Thanks for your cooperation!"
If you do that you might as well close this discussion down.
This is a DISCUSSION forum, correct? What's the point of only REPORTING gas prices if there is no discussion? Because if all we have is post after post of "unleaded was $2.xx this morning" then it gets pretty dang boring pretty dang fast. And you'll end up with about 3 guys in here reporting gas prices from 3 widely seperate points of the compass.
So long as the discussion is about GAS PRICES, I think it's germane.
Well, you are more than welcome to NOT contribute to this particular discussion, if it doesn't suit your interest. However, that's what this topic is about. There's another discussion called Will our dependence on oil ever end? which is much better place to talk about the issues that impact global oil pricing. We're not saying don't talk about it... just not in this specific discussion. Thanks!
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Sorry, I just apply my case here in DE, we have the difference of $0.30-$0.35 per gallon between 87 and 93. I need 91 for my car, so every time I save around $1.00.
Now that the election is over, the price of 93 octane in Central Florida has balooned to about $2.45-2.50/gallon. About 20 cent/gallon increase since one month ago. And I would like to know what the real reason is.
A little bit of Google News searching turns up this:
"Increased demand, lower inventories and colder weather are some of the factors pushing gas prices up," Rossi said. "What looked like an environment for lower gasoline prices in the post-Thanksgiving period now appears to have changed."
AND:
What's happening:
•Oil. Oil prices have risen 6% since the end of October as a tight supply-and-demand balance has propped up prices. Oil costs account for more than half of the retail gasoline price.
•Supply. Gasoline inventories have declined as refiners produce other, more profitable fuels and close plants for maintenance. Gasoline inventories were down 2.6% last week from a year ago, the Energy Department said Wednesday.
"This is the part of the year where you usually see inventory accumulation and we're running a little behind," says Bill O'Grady, assistant director of market analysis at A.G. Edwards.
•Demand. A drop in prices from earlier this year appears to be propping up demand for gasoline. In the four weeks ended Dec. 1, average gasoline demand was up 1.6% from a year ago. Gas demand is up 1% in 2006 from 2005.
So, it's not just some magical mystical gas price ripoff. It's NATURALLY OCCURRING world oil and gasoline market forces, AS USUAL, which drive prices up and down.
Wish I could say the same here. I just went through Campbelltown, Pa on my way to work today and both the Hess and Turkey Hill (local Quik-E mart) were both at $2.42 for 87 grade. I can't wait to see what Costco is tomorrow.
My '99 Mazda 626 V6 with 161k miles on it hardly qualifies as a rich man's car. But it runs better on premium gas and gets 2 more MPG . The manufacturer recommends using premium fuel in this vehicle.
BTW, the cost of premium fuel has gone up again. $ 2.55 for premium today. If this keeps up, we will be back to $3/gallon in no time at all.
Actually took a bus trip yesterday, and all along the way, folks in the bus were actively watching for and commenting on gas prices for the entire trip.
Still at $2.35 here in central PA, as we crossed I-80 in the Poconos and the Delaware Water gap area we generally saw $2.23, in as we approached NYC the prices in NJ were mostly around $2.15.
It's about two weeks past Thanksgiving, and the USA average on that date was:
$2.24
Gary - so much for the prices dropping to $2 by then as was your October prognostication. :shades:
Current USA Average is just below $2.29 and Phoenix average is $2.27ish.
Oil prices still $62 a barrel and OPEC to cut production again looks like:
OPEC members will gather this week in Abuja, Nigeria, ahead of the cartel's official meeting on Thursday. Most analysts expect OPEC to agree to cut production a second time in as many months, but some aren't convinced that the group's members will fully comply with cuts even if they approve them. OPEC members are expected to vote to reduce production by up to 1 million barrels a day as members try to set a floor for oil prices around $60 a barrel
The big question is who in OPEC will be willing to give up $60,000,000 per day? Or even $57,740,000 per day which is the current basket price for OPEC oil. They could not agree in 1998 when prices dropped to $9 per barrel. Time will tell. It is all cyclical in nature. The current prices have spurned much exploration, production will follow. Then the prices will follow supply. You have not seen the last price drop.
We are gaining on you. ARCO 87 went from $2.43 to $2.48 yesterday. Today it is at $2.53. They must have a full time person to change the sign. We must have voted the wrong ticket last month.
Could we PLEASE PLEASE MAYBE drop the political references?
Myself and other posters have posted article after article on this board and others which show how the WORLD OIL MARKET determines gasoline prices, and nothing else. Not an American political party or figure or conspiracy(ies).
Phoenix is going up (as are gasoline futures, controlled by nothing in the US Congress) and is $2.17-$2.21 right now.
I'm a little confused. Just a couple of weeks ago the news out here in California and CNN reported that the price of regular unleaded would be around $2.00 a gallon in December 2006. Here it is 12-12-06 and the gas stations in my area just went from $2.54 at around 12PM to $2.62 per gallon at around 5pm today. That’s up $.08 per gallon in the matter of a few hours. So why did the respectable news report that we would be paying $2.00 per gallon? I just filled up and put in 23 gallons. At $.08 cent higher than it was earlier it cost me an extra $1.84. That might not seem like a lot too most people. And of course if it were just one time then I wouldn't think much of it. But here we go again. I like to think of myself as a caring person who helps contribute to charity or the suffering. I handed a $5.00 bill to a man and his wife holding a sign that read, "Need Gas Money to get back Home, Merry Christmas". Now I don't always hand out money to people holding signs. But these two people really looked like they where honest. Clean cut, clean shaved and clean closes. Afterwards I thought to myself. Was I just taken in and taken advantage of? I ask myself this question every time I fill up my gas tank and see the price continue to go up well over $2.50 bucks a gallon. This isn't milk that lasts me a couple of weeks for a gallon. I get an average of 14 mpg in my Tahoe. Since I live out in a small desert community I have to travel 50 miles to go to the Mall, Doctors, Wal-Mart, etc. So round trip I drive 100 miles at a cost of $18.71. When the price out here was $3.60 a gallon it cost me $25.71 to make the same trip. At $1.71 per gallon as it was not to long ago back east this same trip would cost me $12.21. I normally make this trip at least a dozen times a month. So you can see how the $.08 can add up quickly and soon be $1.89 more per gallon in just a few months. This does not seem right and I personally believe that politics play a very important role in why we pay so much for fuel. You can not compare it to food or groceries. Our bellies do not consume food the way our vehicles consume fuel. Please don't tell me to buy a smaller car or something that gets better mpg. This is not the problem. Everyone out there with any common since knows that it's not the vehicles that people drive, it's what is an HONEST PRICE TO PAY FOR A GALLON OF FUEL? Don't tell me that it is going to be $2.00 a gallon and then sell it for $2.62 a gallon. I have to budget my money just like everyone does. :confuse:
Umm, you get 14 mpg and complain about the price of gas. Ever consider that if everyone would buy more fuel efficient vehicles, less demand would bring about lower prices?
Umm, you get 14 mpg and complain about the price of gas. Ever consider that if everyone would buy more fuel efficient vehicles, less demand would bring about lower prices?
Or look at it from the opposite perspective. What if we all drove 14 mpg vehicles and burned as much fuel as johnny? Imagine how much we'd be paying then. It would be a lot more than $2.50/gallon if we were lucky enough to be even able to find gas. And the oil companies are the bad guys. No need for individual accountability.
that if we all drove 14 mpg vehicles, then gas would probably shoot up high enough that it might not be feasible for many people to drive them, so they'd have no choice but to go for a more economical car.
In my case, what I regularly drive usually gets around 10-12 mpg, and I think the best I ever got out of it was 16. But my commute to work is about 3 1/2 miles, and let's face it, not too many people are going to use a Prius to haul firewood, make a run to the dump, carry 4x8 sheets of plywood, etc! It might cost me $100 per month, at most, to fuel it. And no vehicle in the world is going to be economical enough compared to that to offset a car payment. Unless the government or somebody starts giving me $200-300 per month in tax credits to buy something!
Heck, rather than use my car to commute, I'm able to walk or at least take the bus. It saves wear and tear on my car and gasoline. I feel like I'm in better physical shape as a result and am more relaxed when I come into work as I'm not stressed out from all the traffic and idiot drivers.
not too many people are going to use a Prius to haul firewood, make a run to the dump, carry 4x8 sheets of plywood, etc!
I agree. If gas became expensive enough those people with long commutes using their low mpg vehicle as their daily driver might explore alternatives. I've got to believe its not too difficult to pick up an old beater truck for around $3k that you'd use specifically for hauling purposes, i.e. what a truck was designed for. Then have a more fuel efficient vehicle for your commute and other errands.
Lemko, how long is your commute to work? I'd love to be able to walk it or ride a bike. My commute is about 3.5 miles, which I could probably walk in about an hour, or bike it in about 15 minutes or so. But the only problem is, much of it is along fairly high-speed roads with no sidewalk and, in many cases, no shoulder!
There's just too much traffic to do it safely, IMO, although there are people who do. There was also a guy who works here who got struck and killed by a woman in an SUV (I hate it when the stereotype gets reinforced) while riding his bike home from work.
Plus, there's one little less-than desireable patch I have to go through, that's in between a strip mall and a couple of apartment complexes. There's a Shell station there that gets robbed on a regular basis. The area's not so bad during the day, but after dark it can get a little exciting sometimes! I'd rather go through it with a car, preferably an armored one with a roof-mounted flamethrower, than on foot or bike!
My commute is about three miles but it's via city streets. There are a lot of cars but there isn't a lot of high-speed traffic so I'm not too concerned about getting hit by a vehicle. I'm more concerned about seedy people I might encounter on the sidewalk.
My commute is about three miles but it's via city streets.
Yeah, that can make a big difference, whether it's city streets or higher-speed roads. I figure on a bad day, my commute to work takes about 10 minutes. And that's a REALLY bad day! Yesterday, we took my pickup truck to the body shop to drop it off (it got rear-ended...AGAIN :mad: ) and 6 minutes into the trip we were actually beyond my place of work!
Oh, and as for taking the bus, the nearest bus stop is about a mile from my house. That's a mile in the opposite direction from work, and that route goes nowhere near my job. If I walked about two miles in the direction of my job though, I could catch a bus the rest of the way in.
Hey don't get me wrong. I appreciate the fact you are using as much gas as you do. I'm someone that advocates higher fuel taxes as a way to spur R&D into alternatives. I've pretty much accepted that our legislators won't take this approach but if market conditions drive up the price it accomplishes the same objective. It's people like you that are getting the job done. Way to go and keep up the good work.
I'm someone that advocates higher fuel taxes as a way to spur R&D into alternatives.
Even though I tend to drive gas guzzling monsters, I actually feel the same way. I'd like to see a gas tax that would fund some R&D into energy alternatives. And that being said, if I did drive more, I would buy a smaller, more efficient car to do the running around and such. But with the limited driving I do, the increased insurance and costs of maintaining an additional car just wouldn't be worth the fuel savings.
And if/when the truck does finally die, even if I bought another full-sized truck that got 15 mpg in my type of driving, that would be a huge fuel savings right there! And I'd like to think that 15 mpg with a new truck in the type of driving that gets my old Silverado 10-12 should be feasible.
Andre, I never meant to come across like I was criticizing your choice of vehicle. This is America so what you drive is up to you. It's also a capitalist society so be prepared to pay for your choices, which you do. Its the people that burn a lot of gas and whine about the high prices that I don't get. Its like hitting yourself in the head with a hammer and complaining that it hurts.
The average American spends 3.7% of his income on fuel. That's the same as it was in the mid 60's. I pay $2.25/gallon where I live. I consider that extremely cheap and I am by no means a rich person.
Andre, I never meant to come across like I was criticizing your choice of vehicle. This is America so what you drive is up to you. It's also a capitalist society so be prepared to pay for your choices, which you do.
Don't worry, tpe, I never took it that way. And I promise I won't go Red Forman on ya, either! :P
In a twisted sort of way, me driving the truck actually IS saving some fuel! I also have a 2000 Dodge Intrepid. One of my roommates doesn't have a car, and I had been letting him use the truck when he only worked 4-5 miles away. But now he works about 20 miles away, so I've been letting him borrow the Intrepid, while I drive the truck. The Intrepid is old enough and high-mileage enough at this point that it's probably fully depreciated, so it's not like he's killing its value by driving it that much. And I've gotten to the point I actually prefer the truck...it feels more comfortable to me, and now whenever I drive the Intrepid it just feels so low to the ground and I start to question why I ever bought anything so tiny!
Cut me some slack rock. What you want is a return to cheap gas without having to curb your urge for 400+hp honkin' huge GM land sleds. If you want 'alternative energy' and 'good for the environment' you wouldn't keep expressing a burning desire for full-size GMC trucks or SUV's.
Why shouldn't I have cheap gas to put into my 400+ horsepower GM truck or SUV ? Oil, is made by the earth which means we will never run out of it. The "peak oil myth" like Debeers in the diamond industry is the propoganda of creating false shortages to keep prices and profits high. This is what "Big Oil" has done to you and I.
I'm with you on the 'broken up' part. But think about who was at the helm when some of the biggest mergers went thru: Exxon-Mobile (merged in 1999). Texaco merged with Shell and Saudi Aramco(1998). BP merged with Amoco (1998). Only Chevron-Texaco (2001) and Conoco-Philips (2002) occurred under Bush's watch.
I don't see what this really has to do with anything....Bill Clinton, was a pseudo-capatalist and a free marketeer president which were among his biggest flaws however he would of done something presidential if gas prices went as high as they did under Dubya's watch. I remember under Clinton, gas prices being $0.70 a gallon in Michigan.
Taken over by the government? On what grounds? We aren't some tin-pot dictatorship where various industries can just be nationalized on a whim. Unless you think that ANY industry that shows "too much" profit should just be taken over by government since the owner's were obviously just being 'greedy'. (Although if your aim is to eliminate profit, then having an industry run by the government is a surefire solution....)
Well in Norway, the government does control the oil and distributes the wealth among its citizens in social programs available for each one of its citizens. So that theory does work but perhaps not in the U.S. where greed is the driving force.
Then you should be actively seeking HIGHER prices, not lower. Higher prices ultimately mean that less fuel is consumed. Less fuel consumed = better for the 'one earth'.
I haven't seen any evidence proving your theory of raising prices will restrict/control driving working. Most people that drive have a purpose for their communute whether it be going to work, buisness, or see a family memeber. Punishing them for doing those nessecary things is flat out wrong. If you want to limit oil consumption then bring in alternative fuels like bio-diesel, but I think there is other alternatives to just driving less. The only ones you end up hurting with raising prices is the poor and middle class but you should already know this rorr.
Why aren't you actively seeking about a $2/gallon tax levied by the feds with the money earmarked for alternative fuel research. THAT would actually make more sense than you 'wishing' that Big Oil would simultaneously lower the prices at the pump AND spend EVEN MORE money on alternative fuel research.
Because we can't afford such a tax in this current economy. It would be one thing if this country had high wages, national healthcare, strong unions, and a strong middle class. You need to watch "War against the Middle Class" Thursday 12-14-06 on CNN hosted by Lou Dobbs at 6 p.m. Central time to recognize how average americans are struggling. I've been hit this year with about $3K in medical bills out of pocket and I have good insurance compared to most. It's a big bite out of my bottom line rorr. A $2.00 tax per gallon would make gas about unaffordable to all but the very well off. That isn't a solution to the problem IMHO unless we start paying americans realistic wages once again and fight to keep jobs here.
Rocky
P.S. Gas prices in Amarillo range from $2.14-$2.50 range. I paid $2.19 this morning at the shell station I frequently fuel at. Dumas, prices are at $2.24-$2.29 from what I saw.
Well in Norway, the government does control the oil and distributes the wealth among its citizens in social programs available for each one of its citizens. So that theory does work
Norway is a huge oil exporter so there actually is wealth to distribute. This wealth comes from oil importers like the US that pay 60+ dollars a barrel. Create cheap oil and suddenly Norway's wonderful system starts to unravel. BTW, despite Norway having this much oil the price there for gasoline is about $5.50/gallon. Almost 70% of this is due to taxes. So the question is, do you really support Norway's system? Do you think Norway's government is in favor of its citizens driving full sized SUVs and trucks? The country/government you should have used as an example is Venezuala. Gas is cheap there. Apparently you and Chavez think along the same lines.
Also, since the US is the largest oil importer nationalizing the oil industry would not generate wealth for the country.
but perhaps not in the U.S. where greed is the driving force
What's wrong with a little greed? Many people would consider the desire for material posession that far exceeded needs to be a sign of greed, e.g. the type of vehicle you seem to prefer.
A $2.00 tax per gallon would make gas about unaffordable to all but the very well off.
They pay this in other countries. Are their citizens richer than US citizens? I remember when gas was about $1/gallon and I was advocating a $1 gas tax. Very unpopular position and the prevailing argument was that it would cripple the economy. I think we've seen in the last 1 1/2 years that even $3/gallon gas does not devastate the economy. I predict that within the next few years market conditions will have us paying $4/gallon. We'll see what that does to the economy. If these prices were created through taxes the government would have the funds to mitigate the adverse effects this had on the poor.
Just heard on the radio that it takes a minimum salary of $44,000 just to afford a decent two-bedroom apartment in New Jersey. A minimum wage worker would have to work 119 hours a week to afford the apartment or the equivalent of 3 full-time jobs. Disgusting! I wonder how that low-wage worker will get to work if there's another $2 tax on top of the already expensive gallon of fuel.
They pay this in other countries. Are their citizens richer than US citizens
No. Those countries have a very good mass transit transportation system and only middle class and rich people can afford to have a car. In those countries like Hong Kong, China, there are more Mercedes. Porsche and BMW than here in USA and gas tax there is US$3.00. Not too many people drive to work.
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I've actually thought about that, except that I don't have the patience! Plus, my truck only has a 16 gallon tank, and when I fill up it usually only takes 11-12 gallons. On top of that, around here the price of 89 often splits the middle between 87 and 93, so at best about all I'll get is 90 octane for the price of 89.
Please restrict all future posts in this particular discussion to reporting gas prices in your local area only. Any future posts not related to local gas prices will be removed without further notice.
Thanks for your cooperation!
Eltonron
Host- Automotive News & Views
Thanks iluv - I needed a good laugh this a.m..... :P
Honestly though, have you taken a hard look at (fer instance) any of Exxon-Mobiles quarterly statements? If you look beyond the gross net profit (which is the only number ever quoted in the MSM) you can determine just how MUCH profit was made on the final sale of refined products (domestically) and also the quantity of refined products sold (domestically).
You'll find that typically, they make a profit of around $.08 to $0.10 per gallon of product sold.
Thanks for your cooperation!"
If you do that you might as well close this discussion down.
This is a DISCUSSION forum, correct? What's the point of only REPORTING gas prices if there is no discussion? Because if all we have is post after post of "unleaded was $2.xx this morning" then it gets pretty dang boring pretty dang fast. And you'll end up with about 3 guys in here reporting gas prices from 3 widely seperate points of the compass.
So long as the discussion is about GAS PRICES, I think it's germane.
Just a random thought from the p-nut gallery...
I agree. For simply providing local gas prices there's already a website, gasbuddy.com, that does a far better job than this thread would ever do.
There's another discussion called Will our dependence on oil ever end? which is much better place to talk about the issues that impact global oil pricing. We're not saying don't talk about it... just not in this specific discussion. Thanks!
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But the golddang Germans got nuttin to do wit' it! (said in Texas smalltown sheriff voice) :P
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"Increased demand, lower inventories and colder weather are some of the factors pushing gas prices up," Rossi said. "What looked like an environment for lower gasoline prices in the post-Thanksgiving period now appears to have changed."
AND:
What's happening:
•Oil. Oil prices have risen 6% since the end of October as a tight supply-and-demand balance has propped up prices. Oil costs account for more than half of the retail gasoline price.
•Supply. Gasoline inventories have declined as refiners produce other, more profitable fuels and close plants for maintenance. Gasoline inventories were down 2.6% last week from a year ago, the Energy Department said Wednesday.
"This is the part of the year where you usually see inventory accumulation and we're running a little behind," says Bill O'Grady, assistant director of market analysis at A.G. Edwards.
•Demand. A drop in prices from earlier this year appears to be propping up demand for gasoline. In the four weeks ended Dec. 1, average gasoline demand was up 1.6% from a year ago. Gas demand is up 1% in 2006 from 2005.
So, it's not just some magical mystical gas price ripoff. It's NATURALLY OCCURRING world oil and gasoline market forces, AS USUAL, which drive prices up and down.
PS Phoenix lowest is $2.17 today.
Just this afternoon, Sheetz dropped 3 cents to $2.12 for 87 but kept 93 at $2.35.
Odie
Odie's Carspace
BTW, the cost of premium fuel has gone up again. $ 2.55 for premium today. If this keeps up, we will be back to $3/gallon in no time at all.
Still at $2.35 here in central PA, as we crossed I-80 in the Poconos and the Delaware Water gap area we generally saw $2.23, in as we approached NYC the prices in NJ were mostly around $2.15.
$2.24
Gary - so much for the prices dropping to $2 by then as was your October prognostication. :shades:
Current USA Average is just below $2.29 and Phoenix average is $2.27ish.
Oil prices still $62 a barrel and OPEC to cut production again looks like:
OPEC members will gather this week in Abuja, Nigeria, ahead of the cartel's official meeting on Thursday. Most analysts expect OPEC to agree to cut production a second time in as many months, but some aren't convinced that the group's members will fully comply with cuts even if they approve them. OPEC members are expected to vote to reduce production by up to 1 million barrels a day as members try to set a floor for oil prices around $60 a barrel
87 - $2.179
89 - $2.279
91 - $2.339
93 - $2.379
diesel - $2.479
kcram - Pickups Host
Myself and other posters have posted article after article on this board and others which show how the WORLD OIL MARKET determines gasoline prices, and nothing else. Not an American political party or figure or conspiracy(ies).
Phoenix is going up (as are gasoline futures, controlled by nothing in the US Congress) and is $2.17-$2.21 right now.
So what will prices do if that supersized dose of reverse socialism gifted to big oil is repealed? Will there be any retaliatory action?
CNN? Well, there's your first problem...
Thanks for the help, Larry!
EltonRon
Host- Automotive News & Views
Or look at it from the opposite perspective. What if we all drove 14 mpg vehicles and burned as much fuel as johnny? Imagine how much we'd be paying then. It would be a lot more than $2.50/gallon if we were lucky enough to be even able to find gas. And the oil companies are the bad guys. No need for individual accountability.
In my case, what I regularly drive usually gets around 10-12 mpg, and I think the best I ever got out of it was 16. But my commute to work is about 3 1/2 miles, and let's face it, not too many people are going to use a Prius to haul firewood, make a run to the dump, carry 4x8 sheets of plywood, etc! It might cost me $100 per month, at most, to fuel it. And no vehicle in the world is going to be economical enough compared to that to offset a car payment. Unless the government or somebody starts giving me $200-300 per month in tax credits to buy something!
I agree. If gas became expensive enough those people with long commutes using their low mpg vehicle as their daily driver might explore alternatives. I've got to believe its not too difficult to pick up an old beater truck for around $3k that you'd use specifically for hauling purposes, i.e. what a truck was designed for. Then have a more fuel efficient vehicle for your commute and other errands.
There's just too much traffic to do it safely, IMO, although there are people who do. There was also a guy who works here who got struck and killed by a woman in an SUV (I hate it when the stereotype gets reinforced) while riding his bike home from work.
Plus, there's one little less-than desireable patch I have to go through, that's in between a strip mall and a couple of apartment complexes. There's a Shell station there that gets robbed on a regular basis. The area's not so bad during the day, but after dark it can get a little exciting sometimes! I'd rather go through it with a car, preferably an armored one with a roof-mounted flamethrower, than on foot or bike!
Yeah, that can make a big difference, whether it's city streets or higher-speed roads. I figure on a bad day, my commute to work takes about 10 minutes. And that's a REALLY bad day! Yesterday, we took my pickup truck to the body shop to drop it off (it got rear-ended...AGAIN :mad: ) and 6 minutes into the trip we were actually beyond my place of work!
Oh, and as for taking the bus, the nearest bus stop is about a mile from my house. That's a mile in the opposite direction from work, and that route goes nowhere near my job. If I walked about two miles in the direction of my job though, I could catch a bus the rest of the way in.
Even though I tend to drive gas guzzling monsters, I actually feel the same way. I'd like to see a gas tax that would fund some R&D into energy alternatives. And that being said, if I did drive more, I would buy a smaller, more efficient car to do the running around and such. But with the limited driving I do, the increased insurance and costs of maintaining an additional car just wouldn't be worth the fuel savings.
And if/when the truck does finally die, even if I bought another full-sized truck that got 15 mpg in my type of driving, that would be a huge fuel savings right there! And I'd like to think that 15 mpg with a new truck in the type of driving that gets my old Silverado 10-12 should be feasible.
The average American spends 3.7% of his income on fuel. That's the same as it was in the mid 60's. I pay $2.25/gallon where I live. I consider that extremely cheap and I am by no means a rich person.
Don't worry, tpe, I never took it that way. And I promise I won't go Red Forman on ya, either! :P
In a twisted sort of way, me driving the truck actually IS saving some fuel! I also have a 2000 Dodge Intrepid. One of my roommates doesn't have a car, and I had been letting him use the truck when he only worked 4-5 miles away. But now he works about 20 miles away, so I've been letting him borrow the Intrepid, while I drive the truck. The Intrepid is old enough and high-mileage enough at this point that it's probably fully depreciated, so it's not like he's killing its value by driving it that much. And I've gotten to the point I actually prefer the truck...it feels more comfortable to me, and now whenever I drive the Intrepid it just feels so low to the ground and I start to question why I ever bought anything so tiny!
That was actually really funny, I laughed my dumbass off.
Why shouldn't I have cheap gas to put into my 400+ horsepower GM truck or SUV ? Oil, is made by the earth which means we will never run out of it. The "peak oil myth" like Debeers in the diamond industry is the propoganda of creating false shortages to keep prices and profits high. This is what "Big Oil" has done to you and I.
I'm with you on the 'broken up' part. But think about who was at the helm when some of the biggest mergers went thru: Exxon-Mobile (merged in 1999). Texaco merged with Shell and Saudi Aramco(1998). BP merged with Amoco (1998). Only Chevron-Texaco (2001) and Conoco-Philips (2002) occurred under Bush's watch.
I don't see what this really has to do with anything....Bill Clinton, was a pseudo-capatalist and a free marketeer president which were among his biggest flaws however he would of done something presidential if gas prices went as high as they did under Dubya's watch. I remember under Clinton, gas prices being $0.70 a gallon in Michigan.
Taken over by the government? On what grounds? We aren't some tin-pot dictatorship where various industries can just be nationalized on a whim. Unless you think that ANY industry that shows "too much" profit should just be taken over by government since the owner's were obviously just being 'greedy'. (Although if your aim is to eliminate profit, then having an industry run by the government is a surefire solution....)
Well in Norway, the government does control the oil and distributes the wealth among its citizens in social programs available for each one of its citizens. So that theory does work but perhaps not in the U.S. where greed is the driving force.
Then you should be actively seeking HIGHER prices, not lower. Higher prices ultimately mean that less fuel is consumed. Less fuel consumed = better for the 'one earth'.
I haven't seen any evidence proving your theory of raising prices will restrict/control driving working. Most people that drive have a purpose for their communute whether it be going to work, buisness, or see a family memeber. Punishing them for doing those nessecary things is flat out wrong. If you want to limit oil consumption then bring in alternative fuels like bio-diesel, but I think there is other alternatives to just driving less. The only ones you end up hurting with raising prices is the poor and middle class but you should already know this rorr.
Why aren't you actively seeking about a $2/gallon tax levied by the feds with the money earmarked for alternative fuel research. THAT would actually make more sense than you 'wishing' that Big Oil would simultaneously lower the prices at the pump AND spend EVEN MORE money on alternative fuel research.
Because we can't afford such a tax in this current economy. It would be one thing if this country had high wages, national healthcare, strong unions, and a strong middle class. You need to watch "War against the Middle Class" Thursday 12-14-06 on CNN hosted by Lou Dobbs at 6 p.m. Central time to recognize how average americans are struggling. I've been hit this year with about $3K in medical bills out of pocket and I have good insurance compared to most. It's a big bite out of my bottom line rorr. A $2.00 tax per gallon would make gas about unaffordable to all but the very well off. That isn't a solution to the problem IMHO unless we start paying americans realistic wages once again and fight to keep jobs here.
Rocky
P.S. Gas prices in Amarillo range from $2.14-$2.50 range. I paid $2.19 this morning at the shell station I frequently fuel at. Dumas, prices are at $2.24-$2.29 from what I saw.
Norway is a huge oil exporter so there actually is wealth to distribute. This wealth comes from oil importers like the US that pay 60+ dollars a barrel. Create cheap oil and suddenly Norway's wonderful system starts to unravel. BTW, despite Norway having this much oil the price there for gasoline is about $5.50/gallon. Almost 70% of this is due to taxes. So the question is, do you really support Norway's system? Do you think Norway's government is in favor of its citizens driving full sized SUVs and trucks? The country/government you should have used as an example is Venezuala. Gas is cheap there. Apparently you and Chavez think along the same lines.
Also, since the US is the largest oil importer nationalizing the oil industry would not generate wealth for the country.
but perhaps not in the U.S. where greed is the driving force
What's wrong with a little greed? Many people would consider the desire for material posession that far exceeded needs to be a sign of greed, e.g. the type of vehicle you seem to prefer.
A $2.00 tax per gallon would make gas about unaffordable to all but the very well off.
They pay this in other countries. Are their citizens richer than US citizens? I remember when gas was about $1/gallon and I was advocating a $1 gas tax. Very unpopular position and the prevailing argument was that it would cripple the economy. I think we've seen in the last 1 1/2 years that even $3/gallon gas does not devastate the economy. I predict that within the next few years market conditions will have us paying $4/gallon. We'll see what that does to the economy. If these prices were created through taxes the government would have the funds to mitigate the adverse effects this had on the poor.
No. Those countries have a very good mass transit transportation system and only middle class and rich people can afford to have a car. In those countries like Hong Kong, China, there are more Mercedes. Porsche and BMW than here in USA and gas tax there is US$3.00.
Not too many people drive to work.