Edmunds dealer partner, Bayway Leasing, is now offering transparent lease deals via these forums. Click here to see the latest vehicles!

New S40/V50

1101113151622

Comments

  • creakid1creakid1 Member Posts: 2,032
    "Yes, your are correct but that was recently changed. Up until that change CR stated the 3 Series reliability had fallen below average and the car was no longer recommended. The same was true with Audi A4, Mercedes C240, and VW Jetta. There were not many German cars recommended by CR other than the VW Passat."

    There's an explanation.

    The 325i was mixed w/ some S. African made ones, which had some bad reputation, I heard.

    The Passat 2.8 is the only less-unreliable one because only that old 2.8 V6 Audi engine didn't have the coil recall. Audi cars use their own newer V6 w/ 3.0 displacement. Real VW's(read transversely mounted engine) don't use Audi engines except the 5-valve 1.8 turbo. The 2.8 Jetta/Golf use VW's own 15-degree VR6, not Audi's V6. The only VW engine used in the Audi-design Passat is the limited-production W8, which is another bulky-weight stupid idea next to the Phaeton, both of which will be discontinued soon!

    The new S40 is a mix of the engine/Belgian factory of the (ok-reliability)S60 & the design/parts sharing of the German-made Focus, which topped the reliability rating in Germany.
  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 32,889
    We're really going to have to wait for U.S. test numbers of production models, but I'm willing to bet the T5 is going to spank the 325. I think it will be closer to the 330 in performance (yet, again, far cheaper).

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I like the console.

    Maybe they did it for driver's with nice shoes. Your date could glance over and say, "Nice Bruno Maglis you have there".

    Total ice breaker.

    -juice (not being entirely serious)
  • logic1logic1 Member Posts: 2,433
    I did not even realize Volvo was coming out with a new S40 until I saw it at the auto show. The look of the car, and especially the interior, really have me interested.

    Interested enough that I will attend the Chicago area Volvo drive experience next month.

    Volvo wants to sell what, 20 - 30k of these per year in the US? I like to think there are at least 20 to 30k people like me who really love the design.
  • creakid1creakid1 Member Posts: 2,032
    "We're really going to have to wait for U.S. test numbers of production models, but I'm willing to bet the T5 is going to spank the 325. I think it will be closer to the 330 in performance (yet, again, far cheaper)."

    I thought so, too, based on the max 236 torque available since 1500 rpm. But AUTOCAR gave it 7.0 sec 0-60 & 7.2 to the 325i. & then there's the turbo's "every time" boost-built-up time delay.

    I never felt the max torque by 1500 rpm 'cause by the time it takes to spool up the boost, I already accelerated way past 1500 rpm. I did feel the boost coming up in the power curve at a much higher rpm WAY after I took off from stop.

    AUTOCAR said, "Although light-pressure turbo installations aren't known for their red line charges, there's a real laziness in the way this five goes about its work. Below 2000rpm there's very little action and the boost arrives with such a polite surge it removes much of the excitement from driving the T5. Very soft throttle response makes meting out the power frustratingly inaccurate, too. A glance at the speedo will tell you the T5 has real pace on the road, especially from 3000-4000rpm, but overtaking and using the engine's full performance often feels like too much hard work."

    So the 325i can't match the T5 around 3000-4000rpm. Other than that...
  • venus537venus537 Member Posts: 1,443
    motorweek on speed channel will have a test on the new s40 on the next episode.
  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 32,889
    I think you are putting WAY too much weight on that one review.

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • anythngbutgmanythngbutgm Member Posts: 4,277
    I've never been so enthusiastic about a wagon until the V50 (and it's sibling, Mazda 3 hatch) came along! Now, if it was possible to get the manual tranny AND the AWD with the T5, I'll be the first one through the door at my local dealer.

    Looking forward to April 10th at New York!
  • josh684josh684 Member Posts: 55
    I got my S40 today and I love it. At first I was suppose to get a Base, Black Inside, Black Outside. My dealer made a swap for one, but when it arrived it was the wrong color inside. I then requested a Flint Grey, they told me they could get it....but later that day he told me the dealer that had it did not want to do a swap. At this point I had wasted a whole day at the dealer. Dealer then offered me a Flint Grey, Black Leather inside that he had on the lot. Premium, and Convience package. I got it for invoice because they were sorry for all the hassel.I also got no dealer fee because my Father had just bought a Infiniti QX56 a week before at the same dealer. So at 26,300....I got a hell of deal.
  • caminacamina Member Posts: 31
    Hey Lev,
              Relax. I'm just one person with an opinion. I'm not forcing anyone to do anything. I encourage and enjoy other opinions.

    This is a car forum not a sugar-coating factory. The S40 is a car, not a family member, so lets not take auto critisism personally.

    Your right about the BMW "snobby" label. I think the dealers/service are either snobby, crooks or both.

    Lets see what happens this weekend at the drive event.
  • caminacamina Member Posts: 31
    I was under the impression final assembly for all 3 Series was South Africa. This was the case with my 1988 and every 3 Series I have looked at from the past year.
  • caminacamina Member Posts: 31
    The Acura TSX fully loaded goes for $26.9K. The S40 with the Premium Package goes for $27.1K.

    Acura's goal is to sell 15K cars in the US. They are exactly on track to do so with not much to spare.

    To say Volvo will sell 15K to 20K S40's is really reaching. However, If you throw in the huge customary Volvo rebate then it's possible.
  • caminacamina Member Posts: 31
    Josh,
            Normally, how much are they discounting the S40's ?
  • creakid1creakid1 Member Posts: 2,032
    invoice on the NEW S40? Congrats!
  • creakid1creakid1 Member Posts: 2,032
    "I was under the impression final assembly for all 3 Series was South Africa."

    only the 325i sedans, I've seen. & only on every other shipment. Rest of the 325i sedans are assembled in Germany.
  • logic1logic1 Member Posts: 2,433
    Volvo's original plan was to only bring over 6.5k wagons. My understanding is public interest is already pushing that figure up.

     Sedans generally outsell their wagon cousins about three to one. I think 20k or so is in the books.

    That Acura TSX is one tawdry looking overwrought piece of work if you ask me. Too bad so many people buy them.
  • josh684josh684 Member Posts: 55
    Did not want to budge from MSRP. All they would offer was no dealer fees.
  • venus537venus537 Member Posts: 1,443
    "Acura's goal is to sell 15K cars in the US. They are exactly on track to do so with not much to spare."

    well it's not because they can't sell them. They just don't build many of those things for some reason. But there are tons of ohio built TLs on the lot.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Invoice at this point is unbelievable, they must really want to keep your family's business. Congrats.

    Heck, you could turn around and re-sell for a small profit, probably.

    -juice
  • new4doornew4door Member Posts: 5
    how long until the local Volvo dealer is discounting the new S40? By summer or later?
  • seminole_kevseminole_kev Member Posts: 1,696
    but will you be able to get a manual tranny on the S40/V50 (more curious about the wagon). And if so, is it only with certain motors or packages? Seems like I can only find them equiped with autos on Volvo's site or Edmunds.
  • josh684josh684 Member Posts: 55
    I know the S40 will come 5 Speed during the summer. I think as the 2005 Model. There will be a 6 Speed on the T5.
  • caminacamina Member Posts: 31
    Like I said, if Volvo offers a big rebate then they may sell 15K maybe 20K but thats it. I thought you were talking S40 sedans.

    What specifically don't you like about the TSX ? I thought it was a nice car. The only thing I don't like about it was it's a lot of money for a 4 cylinder.

    It has good reviews, it's made by a quality company, and has has the lowest TCO in it's category.
  • caminacamina Member Posts: 31
    I have a problem with dealers not giving discounts especially in this economy. When I looked at the TSX when it first came out thats what they told me and I said "See Ya".

    First off, if dealers don't deal then why do we need them ?

    Secondly, there is no car in today's market and economy that is so special that it deserves no discount.

    Lastly, why should any consumer pay sticker for a new model car when you know you will be used as beta tester ?

    They all play the game. The factory sends each dealer 3 or 4 cars at first. Then all the dealers tell thier customers they are selling like hot cakes and have nothing left.

    They want you to think that a dime-a-dozen car is as rare as an autographed 1918 Red Sox World Series Program.
  • logic1logic1 Member Posts: 2,433
    I include the wagon and sedan for sales numbers as it is my understanding the industry people usually do that as well.

    You and I, it appears, have almost opposite taste in sedans at least.

    I am fairly impressed with TSX mechanicals and would not mind the 4. What I do not like is the, for me, overworked chrome-like body accents and the busy interior.

    I accept that many do like the car. With Acura keeping US shipments down, I do not doubt that it will have no problem selling them at list. As Venus points out, the TLs are not moving.
  • logic1logic1 Member Posts: 2,433
    The local Volvo dealer tells me there will be a manny in the V50.

    I know there is a manny in the S40. Appears the dealers bought mostly autos. The only mannys I have heard about are the ones in the Volvo drive experience.
  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 50,432
    the sticks won't come out until the summer as '05s. I think it will be the same time that the V50 arrives, and should also be when the AWD version appears.

    I don't remember if the AWD and stick will be available together, or just FWD/stick.

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.

  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    The answer to that is simple - wait. The market determines the price of any vehicle. Either that or it won't sell.

    First on the block always pays more.

    Remember the New Beetle on E-Bay that sold for $25 grand? Could have waited and bought one today with a rebate and at invoice with 0% financing and free floor mats. The dealer will beg you to take it for $10 grand less that the guy on E-bay.

    -juice
  • creakid1creakid1 Member Posts: 2,032
  • josh684josh684 Member Posts: 55
    The XC90 Stayed at MSRP for a while. It also still sells pretty close to MSRP I think. So if that is ant indication, the S40 might do the same. Alot of people like the car, It does turn heads when I drive it.
  • creakid1creakid1 Member Posts: 2,032
    It simply made the S60/80 looking even more boring. & since a lot of Volvo buyers are senior citizens, who don't usually carry passengers in the back seat, giving discounts on the new S40 will only ruin the sales of the larger S60/S80.
  • creakid1creakid1 Member Posts: 2,032
    "What specifically don't you like about the TSX ? I thought it was a nice car. The only thing I don't like about it was it's a lot of money for a 4 cylinder."

    This is the best-performing 4-cyl -- w/ low-end no weaker than the regular Accord's 2.4 but revs quietly & eventually churns out 200 hp w/o turbo/Kompressor. Without making a FWD car nose-heavy like 6-cyls do, it's almost like an expensive racing engine.

    But all passengers don't like our TSX's ride over bumps, & this is compounded by the poor outward visibility from all passenger seats. Despite long springs on multi-links, the tuning is so taut, even more than the Euro Accord twin, that the the jolts from the road pushing the human torso vertically is even more forceful than the harsher-riding Mazda3.

    The TSX rides superficially harsh-free due to the softer-than-Euro-Accord bushings that separates the suspension/road noise as well as the important tire-grip info coming through the steering wheel! So it's not a fun driver's car, despite first-class handling competence, especially when cornering hard over bumpy roads.

    Bottom line -- the TSX is neither truely fun for the driver, nor comfy for the passengers.

    Is the S40 2.4i w/ the $750 sport suspension a better compromise? We'll see. My prediction is that the S40's steering isn't as numb, & the ride less punishing. The S40's rear head room is much worse than TSX's.
  • venus537venus537 Member Posts: 1,443
    the TLs are moving and like hot cakes. my point was that there's way more production of the TL than the TSXs.
  • venus537venus537 Member Posts: 1,443
    from Brian Moody at Edmunds:

    "the ride on the open highway can be a little busy, especially on less than perfect concrete highways. On smoother asphalt, the S40 is quiet and comfortable. I'm perfectly willing to admit that this complaint could be the result of a personal bias toward soft-riding highway cruisers, but the fact remains there are cars like the Acura TSX that offer both sharp handling and excellent highway manners"

    s40 first drive
  • larscalarsca Member Posts: 60
    The S40 will be available with 5 speed manual for the 2.4i, and 6 speed manual for the T5. As far as I know, only the T5 will be available with AWD (in both auto and 6sp). These combinations will start to sell sometime this summer. At first I heard June, but lately I've heard August. At about the same time the V50 will start to sell in the U.S.

    I don't think the 2.4i will be available with AWD, but I'm not sure. I'm also not sure if the 4 cylinder versions and the diesel version that is (going to) sell in Europe will ever be available in the U.S.

    Personally I don't think there will be an R version of the S40 as long as the S60R is available.

    I think it's correct to compare the S40 T5 to the BMW 325, but not the 330 since it's so much more expensive. I also believe that you could easily compare the T5 to the MB C230 sedan, and in my opinion that is a more interesting comparison since they are more similarily priced (with options and packages included). And to all MB haters out there, when it comes to the C-class my experience with it is that they do tend to have to visit the shop a bit too often, but at least where I bought my C230 (coupe) it's all covered under warranty, I get a free loaner during the day and my car is always washed when I come to pick it up. Does Volvo offer the same service? No.

    I really like the new S40 T5, but I worry about the reliability and the service/warranty. All things considered, I might opt for the mid-cycle updated C230 Kompressor with the 6 speed manual and some sort of sport package (if that is available?). But that's just me.

    Oh, and finally, I didn't think the center console of the S40 was neither cheap looking or super cool. It was just there, I didn't have a problem with it, but at the same time I didn't think it was the coolest thing since sliced bread either. I did however not like the T-TEC material for the seats. Felt like sitting on a wet suit to me.
  • caminacamina Member Posts: 31
    What do you mean "all passengers dont like OUR...". Do you work for a dealer or are you quoting a magazine ?

    I realize it has the VTEC engine an all. But when I drove it, it just doesn't feel right compared to a 6 cylinder. Maybe it needs getting use to.
  • caminacamina Member Posts: 31
    What's the best car available right now between $25K to $28K ?
  • larscalarsca Member Posts: 60
    That's an impossible question to answer. It depends on your needs, your preferences, etc. But since you're posting your question in the Volvo S40 forum, I guess it's safe to assume the S40 is something that interests you? In other words, a small four door sedan with responsive handling and better than most performance?

    Next assumption is regarding optional equipment. Are leather, premium packages and bi-xenon headlamps a must for you? OK, if it is we're talking about a loaded car for between $25-28k. If not, we're talking about a 'clean' car for that price. Huge difference.

    I will assume you're talking about a normal car, with leather and automatic transmission, but no bi-xenon lights or heated headlamp washers. Here's my answer to the question what's the best car out there for $25-28k: It's entirely up to you.

    (But my money is on a Honda Accord EX coupe V6 in that price range.)
  • creakid1creakid1 Member Posts: 2,032
    "I realize it has the VTEC engine an all. But when I drove it, it just doesn't feel right compared to a 6 cylinder. Maybe it needs getting use to."

    You can't compare the TSX's 4-cyl lighter-weight engine to a 6-cyl. Even the so-so V6 from Mazda 6S(weaker than Honda/Nissan V6) has 50% more acceleration thrust of .44g than TSX's .29g.
    creakid1 "Acura TSX vs. Mazda6" Apr 1, 2004 7:17pm

    Hey, at least CR found the new S40 2.4i got strong low end. The TSX is heavier than the Accord, so its engine feels pretty weak at low rpms.
  • creakid1creakid1 Member Posts: 2,032
    “from Brian Moody at Edmunds:

    "the ride on the open highway can be a little busy, especially on less than perfect concrete highways. On smoother asphalt, the S40 is quiet and comfortable. I'm perfectly willing to admit that this complaint could be the result of a personal bias toward soft-riding highway cruisers, but the fact remains there are cars like the Acura TSX that offer both sharp handling and excellent highway manners"”

    That's what I was afraid of -- Is Volvo's continuing w/ that wrong setting in the frequency tuning again? While the TSX is mainly only having a "too taut for comfort" problem. Even the 850/S70 from the '90's kept having a busy/jiggly ride over rippled concrete fwys! Has Volvo figured it out yet? Gosh, I better go drive both S40's suspensions over bumps & find out.

    I'm so good at distinguish this problem that when I test drove the new '90 Protege LX, I was able to pin point out that the car bounced just as high as the bump right after hitting the bump & hence no net gain in absorption. & my trial-&-error concluded that Gabriel pretty much solved this problem.

    Well, Volvo's All Access is the only drive event I've seen that avoided using simulated bumps on the track so people like me won't be able to nail it.

    How are we gonna fix it? The Mazda3 has some similar problem, too. Looks like the good o'American low-quality Gabriel is the only savior to calm down the ride.
  • creakid1creakid1 Member Posts: 2,032
    "What do you mean "all passengers dont like OUR...". Do you work for a dealer or are you quoting a magazine ?"

    We paid sticker since April '03 on an auto TSX. One member in the family liked its craftmenship, so he went for it despite being a slow driver. Then he found out how scary he became when cornering it on a fast fwy ramp w/ that accurate but no-tire-grip-feel steering, while this didn't happen when he used to drive the C220. Now, instead of getting a Mazda 3S for his 16-yr-old son, he's thinking of passing on the TSX to him so he can just go get a softer-riding & more confident-steering stripped 325i w/, hopefully, the memory seating as the only option.

    "What's the best car available right now between $25K to $28K ?"

    Will the stripped 325i stick w/ good discount or through Euro delivery program qualify as a $28k car? Maybe not after the post-warranty repairs. I think this car is pretty loaded w/ DSC, a reasonably-sporty std suspension, remote pwr windows & charcoal filtration.
  • caminacamina Member Posts: 31
    I went to the drive event today and here are my comments.

    1. Yes, as someone else pointed out there were no bumps and I forgot to mention that on the evaluation.

    2. I drove both auto versions and both drove great. The base engine is plenty for me. One one of my turns my rear wheels skidded out.

    3. The center stack wasn't as bad as it looked at first but I'm still not crazy about it. No wonder they designed it for storage space. You can just about fit a couple of eyeglass cases in the glove box. Really small.

    4. I know these are test cars but I noticed some quality issues with the car. The seat adjustment and power window switches didn't always work. You had to play with them. The navigation screen popped up for no reason during my test drive. The stainless steel inlays had minor defects...dents. On a display car outside, the driver door seemed to bind a little when opening.
  • caminacamina Member Posts: 31
    During the event they played a video of making of the video. Is this on the CD that you get because I can't find it. When I click on see more videos the web site doesn't load the images properly.
  • josh684josh684 Member Posts: 55
    I was wondering if anyone knows what series low beam lights are found in the new S40. I cant find it in the book, and I want to switch mine out with PIAA lights. Thanks
  • robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    I was there in Foxborough yesterday as well. Were you the guy in the 3PM session that went sideways in a T5 and I believe was asked to leave??

    I was impressed. I found the cars to have plenty of room and I liked the overall design. I didn't have any issues with non working features other than a NAV screen that wouldn't stay down. I preferred the 2.4i with the stick over the T5 - there's plenty of power IMHO with the standard engine. I found the clutch on the T5 releases quickly and quite a few people stalled.

    These vehicles were all Euro spec models as the base fabric interior isn't offered with heated seats and moonroof in the US. According to the folks running things, these vehicles are transported to each event so they are getting some wear.

    Just need to wait to see the V50.
  • creakid1creakid1 Member Posts: 2,032
    "These vehicles were all Euro spec models as the base fabric interior isn't offered with heated seats and moonroof in the US."

    The heated seats & the $1200 moonroof should be optional on the std fabric or T-tech fabric, but the moonroof is a better value as part of the $2200/$2300 premium package that also adds leather & one pwr seat.
  • creakid1creakid1 Member Posts: 2,032
    "I was there in Foxborough yesterday as well. Were you the guy in the 3PM session that went sideways in a T5 and I believe was asked to leave??"

    Wasn't it funny only picky people like camina & I would explore the limit to completely understand the car thoroughly?

    I believe I was already on the black list of Lexus IS300's drive event(I crashed thru the cones in both the IS300 & 325i), maybe that's why they never notified me again for another drive event. Instead, they mailed me an expensive Lexus driving-school event. So this time I got smarter & ran away from the staffs after I drifted the S40 over the cones so the big FordMoCo never got my name!

    These 3 car companies should appreciate my work, as I kept telling people that the 325i, IS300 & new S40 are the 3 best cars!
  • npaladin2000npaladin2000 Member Posts: 593
    "Wasn't it funny only picky people like camina & I would explore the limit to completely understand the car thoroughly?"

    You have to remember, their objective isn't to have you thouroughly explore the car, discover it's handling limits, etc. The budget for these events comes out of the PR department...it's advertising for them. They want you to learn enough about the car to want to buy it, and absolutely NOTHING else. That's why they do things like not lay down bump strips, limit time in the vehicles, and toss out people that try to drive outside the parameters they've set. :)

    That and the people standing here watching the car go sideways probably did NOT help future sales, which the big FordMoCo would not like very much. :)
  • caminacamina Member Posts: 31
    LOL. Nope, that wasn't me. I was in line on the other side waiting for my turn to drive.

    I saw the smoke and then watched the guy finish. He immediately ripped off his wristband because he knew he was a goner.

    My little skid with the 2.4i was nothing like that other guy. I'm not exactly a Mario Andretti type but I did push it a bit. I was a little surprised when it happened considering the type of wheels, tires, and suspension the car had.

    Yes, the cars have gone through some events and are at the end of the tour but they were new. These drive events are a good stress test for the car to see how it will last over the long haul. Seeing obvious quality issues at this point is not a good sign.

    I went to a Chrysler Crossfire drive event last summer and not only did they have bumps but they let you drive other cars like a Porche Boxter, Audi TT, and Infinity G35 Coupe as a comparison.

    At this event, they just displayed other cars and talked about the difference where the S40 was better. Of course, mostly it was something like....these others cars can do this a little better than the S40 but the S40 is cheaper.

    They admitted the BMW 325i was the measuring stick. But reminded us the S40 was cheaper.

    Here is the way I see it. I want leather and moonroof. So, I need the Premium Package on the S40. This comes to $27.1K for a 5 cylinder new model car that you know will have bugs that need to be worked out. Sounds like dealers will not discount the car for a while. Also, dont forget the center stack that some of us think makes the interior look a little plain. Keep in mind, this is a car design based on cars that sell in the teens (Mazda3 and Ford Focus).

    On a BMW 325i I have to pay for auto, moonroof, and I can get leatherette which last longer and looks like the real thing. So, I can get a 6 cylinder 3 Series, that is very stable, that has just about the same options, almost as safe, and much more luxurious inside for about $3K more.

    Which car would you take ?
  • lev_berkovichlev_berkovich Member Posts: 858
    I've checked the prices - The 325i with Premium (sunroof, etc), auto and leatherette - is over $33K and with leather - $34.5. And BMW, as far as I know does not discount either.
    With such price difference I and many others just might choose S40.And I will wait for the OSD availability and get additional 10% off the price.
    Even with "hotty" XC90 it did not take Volvo more than 10 month till they started to offer the OSD discount.
This discussion has been closed.