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2000 Ford Superduty with Cummins?
Will Ford install Cummins Diesels in the 2K
Superdutys?
Superdutys?
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Thanks
Unless you are doing lots of highway long distance driving with very few starts, I think you will only get an extra 50% of life at most buying a diesel vs gas. Sooner or later you gotta sell 'em, rebuild 'em, or junk 'em. The cummins should hold it's value much better for the first two cases.
I've worked for companies with fleets of Powerstrokes, and I know many friends who use them for personal vehicles. My experience is that the Powerstroke does NOT last as long as the Cummins. The Navistar engine has very high tech electric over hydraulic injectors that required replacing on almost every truck the company owned, mostly failed after warranty was over. Most trucks were repaired for no less than a $3000 bill. Many friends who have actaully kept their trucks past 100,000 miles, are starting to believe what i told them years ago, that they would have problems. My advice to all friends is that if the truck is remotely running bad or rough within the warranty, TAKE IT IN.
The Cummins, on the otherhand, has a very simple AND reliable injector and fuel pump system. Proper maintenance on the the Cummins have yielded many miles of trouble free service.
Also the Cummins is a sleeved engine and the PS is not, making the Cummins much easier to rebuild. The PS basically cannot be rebuilt if worn too much. The Cummins, it doesn't matter.
The Powerstroke problems I've seen have happened regardless of maintenance.
towing things up to 14,000lbs. We have a tractor and flatbed for the really heavy stuff and a Ford F7000 with a 3208 cat in it. The two smaller trucks which catch the 14,000lbs tows are (1) a 1993 Ford Crew Cab Dulley with a Banks Turbo kit
7.3 diesel/4:10 Rear. (160,000 miles) and a 3/4 ton Dodge Ram 2500 with a Cummins/3:55 Rear. All of our equipment uses Rottela T 15-40w. The cummins will run 6000 miles before the oil starts to turn colors, the ford will run about 2500 miles before the oil is dark dark. Towing; the cummins will pull 10,500 lbs with no problems other than you must start slowly. Once up to speed
it will roll on at 11mpg/same tow with the ford
is 10mpg at 60mph. The ford engine is not direct
injection and unlike the powerstokes relies on hp
in the upper rpm range and not torque. The PS max torque is at 2200rpm or 68mph with 4:10 in OD.
Thats why they tow so good on the highway. Max torque on the 7.3 with the banks is about 510ft/lbs at 1500-1600 rpms. Both of our trucks are automatics and we don't tow anything over 7000lbs in Overdrive. The Cummins will run about 64 mph with the tow and the ford about 65 with
800 degree exhasut temp and 6 lbs of boost. Anyway
the Cummins in my opinion is solid motor, easy to rebuild, 1/2 the moving parts of the 7.3 diesel and gets 22mpg at 75mph on the road running light.
The ford which is mine, has never not been able to do anything we asked of it. It does not get the fuel mileage the cummins does for several reasons, rear ratio, cooling fan engagement in hot weather in high rpms, and more parts to feed.
Injection pump calibration is important with the ford and should be done at least every 100,000 miles. Neither engine uses more than 1 quart between changes. The powerstroke will also get 20+
mpg with a 355 rear in a single rear wheel crew cab. Its my opinion that worked under load both engines will last far longer than one which never works.
engines but whoever puts a Caterpillar in
there truck first wins.The ISB would be better
in a ford rather than a dodge,because fords frame
is heavier,they have heavier drivetrains,and have
a CREWCAB!!!!!!!!! I drive a truck OTR and I have
a N14 Cummins which ISB is based on,the truck has
got 650,000 miles on it and it is a good engine.
The only problems if had has been with the 7
injectors my company has put in it and the CPU
problems cummins is plagued with. I think Ford
should look really hard at CAT POWER before Cummins.
i
I really don't like the front-end and cab design of the Dodge van, so...... hey Chrysler, when are you going to redesign your van and put the Cummins in it and a straight front axle ?
I know its going to be hard to get a consistent opinion, but I would like to hear some durability experiences from both Ford and Dodge owners, both on the diesel and the automatic tranny, as well as overall quality.
Appreciate any feedback.
I've said it before, I ran the 7.3 for 10 yrs and 170,000 and would buy the cummins if I ever buy a diesel again.
Invader,
Regardless of which truck you choose, you will exceed the weight restrictions of any 1 ton with a 14,000 pound trailer. I'm pretty sure the Ford has the highest tow rating. The GCWR (max weight of truck and trailer) is 20,000. The new Superduty 1 tons weigh in the 7,000 pound range. The tow limit for conventional trailers is 10,000. The max tow limit for a fifth wheel trailer is 13,500 and I believe that is with the V-10 and 4.30 axle ratio.
It's not that a 1 ton won't do the job, but you will be overweight. The F-450 and F-550 Superduty have GCWRs up to 30,000 pounds. Those two trucks come in a chassis cab without a truck bed. They also have lower axle ratios. I think the tallest gear you can get is a 4.56 or 4.88. Obviously, they will drive more like a truck. With the lower axle ratios, hwy mpg will also be reduced.
You can get aftermarket truck beds and air-ride suspensions to make the truck look and drive similar to a 1 ton. Of course, they cost money. A company in Louisville called Fontaine offers steel bed with fiberglass panels for about $4,000. The bed has a lower profile to accomodate fifth wheel towing. I believe they offer the air-ride suspension for about another $3,000. I saw a Ford F-550, fully outfitted with the Fontaine Package, with a MSRP of about $55,000.
Your ability to maintain minimum speeds of 50mph in the mountains will depend on the grade and how much you are willing to accelerate to get a run on the hill. Your total rig weight will likely exceed 20,000 pounds. 50mph on an extended 7% or so grade might be tough. With a rig that size, you might also consider some kind of exhaust brake for the downside of those mountains. Diesels aren't nearly as effective as gas engines when it comes to engine braking to maintain comfortable speeds on extended, steep declines.
Crazyelvis
If you're trying to use operating costs to justify a diesel, forget it and buy the V-10. You'll be a lot happier.
On my two previous Ford diesel pick ups I've put almost a quarter of a million miles. My '99 SD is my third diesel. I can say that once that you get used to the driving characteristics of a diesel you'll never buy a gasoline engine again.
A diesel is a low maintenance (But higher cost) engine. Oil changes are 14-16 quarts depending upon which part of the '99 series of 7.3L Navistar. The oil filter is $10-13. The fuel filter (every 15k miles) is between $14 and $50. That's it for 100-200K miles. Fuel is usually between unleaded regular and premium. (Today in Los Angeles $1.37 and regular gas was as low as $1.29)
Fuel mileage is much better than the V-10. A few weeks ago between Huntington Beach and Reno I got 19 MPG. I used the cruise control almost all the way and ran from the speed limit to about 8 above. On other trips to Las Vegas and running at or close to the speed governor (85-90 MPH) the mileage drops down to mid 16s. The people that I know with V-10s would kill for 16 MPG. Commuting mileage is usually in the low to mid 17s. (The morning is typically 20 miles at 60 MPH but evening averages about 35 MPH.)
Rich
Ford has used the Cummins in some of their bigger trucks in the past, and I believe they plan to continue that trend. I think the F-650 will have a Cummins option. There is likely a contractual relationship issue between Cummins and Dodge that would prohibit Cummins from supplying a diesel for use in the Superduty (F-250-F550) line. That's just a guess, but it makes sense.
(1) I've read multiple posts stating that injectors eventually need to be replaced -- and that they run $800-$900 apiece. If the injectors are $800+ (and I'm assuming there are eight on a PS), that's upwards of $6,400 for a full replacement, right? I am getting the impression that replacing injectors at 200k is not that unreasonable. I've got nearly 200k on my Jeep Cherokee and recently had to replace 3 or 6 injectors -- but it only cost me $400. For $6400, I could buy a brand new engine. Are diesels really more economical in the long run?
(2) What's the likelihood of the turbo going out on the PS -- and what might that likely cost to replace/repair?
(3) I am getting the impression that the Cummins 24V is by far the favorite among those in this forum. Is the engine really superior to the PS or do people prefer it because of the Cummins name (and perhaps because of its simplicity)?
(4) Should I wait until Ford comes out with a better diesel? I think I am getting cold feet. On the one hand, I'm willing to fork over an add'l $4k if it is expected to yield me better service AND at least make sense economically in the long run. Those repairs scare me to death.
(5) If the F250 SD came with the Cummins, I'd buy it tomorrow. In an objective side-by-side comparison, how would the PS stack up against the Cummins (and I'm NOT talking strictly torque & hp)? What makes the Cummins better?
-Scott
Even though it's generally thought the Powerstroke out performs the Cummins in their pickup truck state of tune(That's a whole 'nother debate) it's also said the Cummins is much easier to rebuild ie: replaceable cylinder linings etc.
Have you driven both gas and diesel? Even though it has been commented that these trucks are not drag racers I personally can't take the sluggishness of the diesel off the line. You obviously might have a different opinion. And while some consider diesel noise a symphony it drives me nuts.
I think as a pure work truck being driven 50-100,000 miles a year it's hard to beat a diesel. But for a 15,000 mile a year personal use vehicle....... I'm pretty sure I'm getting the V10.
Take care
-Scott
as far as making up the cost , i myself am not to concerned ,i put at least 25k a year on my truck , people will point out the larger amount of oil per change but what they forget to mention is that its a 2 oil change on the gas engine to 1 change of the diesel , in the case of a cummins its 11 qts. so thats about the same amount of oil and only one filter vs. 2 on a gas , and depending on the type of oil used its not a whole lot more , there is the fuel filter change , but thats not a big deal , goes with the territory ... i'm buying it mostly for the longevity and the supposed fuel economy over my present 360 v8 , plus the towing power for the few time i haul my 69 superbee to carlisle ...
i have a 98 dodge with a 360 and put about 25k per year on it , i have had this one for 18 months and have racked up 44k miles already , i ordered a 2000 2500 cummins yesterday , should have bought it in the first place ...
First of all, I would say the diesel is easier to live with. Especially the Cummins. I don't like the sounds of the potential injector problems on the Powerstroke, so I'm referring specifically to the Cummins. Nothing is easier to live with than the great mileage, super dependability, peace of mind that you can take that engine up anything towing anything and not feel like you are working the engine too hard. Someone else had the point that a gas engine struggling at over 3500 RPM makes a more disturbing sound than a diesel purring up a hill.
Sorry, I don't care how loud they are outside, it is very pleasant inside the cockpit of a Ram/Cummins.
Finally, the cummins I drive has plenty of accelleration off-the-line to beat most people at a signal if I really want to drive in that kind of uncomfortable way, but once again, that's not what a 3/4-ton or 1-ton was made for. Regardless, I can't imagine that you would be annoyed with sluggishness in a Cummins. Seems like the Powerstrokes I have seen can take off pretty fast at stop lights also.
All I've said is based on write ups the PS is quicker than the Cummins and when I drove the Ford V10 and the PS the PS felt mushy to me. I actually owned a '85 Thunderbird Turbo that felt the same way. Just seemed to take a little bit of time to spool up. The great gas mileage can't be argued but at what cost is the main topic here. I think everyone agrees there is a break even point after the extra cost of the diesel, the debate is when. I also think we agree on you should buy what you like. You like the diesel, me it's the gas. People should test drive them both and make up their minds that way.
Take care.
I also agree you should get what you want. By the way, I do like many gas engines, too. I especially like the GM 350s, 5.3L and 6.0L. I have the Dodge 5.2L, and although it has been powerful and dependable, it gets poor mileage compared to the GM power. And there's something that keeps drawing me to the torque, efficiency (as I've said, mainly for range), and feel of the Cummins (like the '97 Cummins I also drive). I see no drawbacks to the diesel in my life (other than whether or not I can afford the initial investment).
I've been leaning toward the Sierra 2500 with the 6.0L & 4 doors, but found out yesterday that it is not likely that I could get one until June, so I might spend more money that I don't have for the Ram/Cummins. I'm kinda resigned that I will probably wait until the new year to see what auto tranny is offered on the new Cummins ETH and/or if I can get a Sierra 2500 6.0 with 4 doors. But who knows, I've gotten to that point of no return that anytime I get near a dealer, I might jump in. Only problem is I'm currently helping my wife look for a 4Runner or Durango (she's the boss).
Oh, by the way, I've been noticing that about 3/4 of the construction trucks around here are either Cummins or Powerstroke. Construction companies would not fit the long driving model that so many people think diesels are only good for. Those construction guys tend to do lots of short runs from the lumber yard to the construction site. I haven't heard of any diesel problems directly related to the short range driving with people like construction workers. I'ld like to hear if anyone else has.
About the Ford w/ V-10. I don't think I really want a crew cab (a little too long with a long bed, which I do want), but would ideally like a full backseat like the new Sierra club cabs. Not interested in a V-10, Ford or Dodge. My current preference goes like this: 1) Cummins 2)GM 6.0L (although I might move this to #1 if I could actually get one) 3) Keep current truck and wait to see the new year and new offerings. My current 5.3 liter Dodge gets bad enough mileage (although 17 mpg isn't bad, historically, for pickups), don't want a guzzling V-10. I've been hearing up to and over 17 mpg for the GM 6.0L , so it wouldn't be bad. Still would rather have the Cummins. I'm not really interested in the Superduty though, due to engine lineup, backseat no bigger than Ram Quad, excessive cab height (awkward for camper/garage/etc.).
I can't wait to see the 2002 or 2003 model year trucks when Dodge and GM will have new trucks, and GM will have Duramax competing with (and probably forcing improvements) the Ford and Dodge diesels. I'll bet the Ford and Dodge diesels will keep ahead of the Duramax. I think all three will be making incredible trucks in two to three years, though. Only problem will be affording them. I've never been good at buying anything stripped down, always find a reason to justify the best engine and other perks. Oh yeah, hopefully the manufacturers will make enough that we can actually buy them.
How have the leases worked for you on your pickups? Restrictions on off-road use, tires, canopies, etc.? My wife and I are looking for a couple new vehicles, but I think I'm resigned to the fact that I will have to buy mine due to the type of use.