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Good, Bad or Ugly - Current and Future styling trends of BMW
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I bet you'll see some front and rear end changes to the 5 after the first year.
Hold on to your E46!!! It'll be gorgeous in ten years.
"It's still very nearly the perfect driving machine. But BMW's ship has run up on a styling reef. It's not htat this body is ugly per se; it might even look good on, oh, a Volvo chassis. But the problem is it has landed atop a previously perfect BMW. When an automaker reaches the pinnacle of styling--as BMW did in the '90s with its line of elegant, muscular, dynamic cars--it is then faced with an awful dilemma: We can't stand still, but where do we go from here? Looks like BMW's taken up with a den of New Jersey hairdressers. The 530 is overwrought, show-offy, all flaring creases and scooped-out panels--so un-BMW. Quick, somebody find a clean sheet of paper!"
Couldn't have said it better, myself.
Bret
What he should have said was this:
"Looks like BMW's taken up with the artists who created Beavis and Butthead."
glah, this is a sad day when we are debating (even in jest) whether the right comparison for the new 5-series is NJ hairdressers vs. beavis and butthead.
reminds me of a quote posted by someone on the X3 board who had held off for 1 year on a new car purchase to see the X3. going only by memory here, i think he said:
"i looked . . . i saw . . . i cried. i waited a year for this?!"
Also, designman, have you ever seen beavis and butthead? They look like they were drawn by NJ hairdressers, so essentially you and the C&D guy are saying the same thing.
Thank you for somebody defending New Jersey. On a side note I hope that gas tax doesn't pass. I doubt it will.
As for Infinti Nissan is into being different. Lexus got too bland to me with the 98 GS and 02ES. I more of an Acura man personally than a lexus or Infinti man though.
Isn't BMW's US headquarters in NJ, or am I remembering this wrong?
-Bret
I have a friend that lives in Germany half the year, the other half here in the states. Most Europeans view the American auto enthusiast as...well how do I say....limp wristed, pinky ringed, overweight wimps, with "low IQ's".
The iDrive is not difficult to use. Can anyone remember trying to learn how to surf on the internet? or learning any new software program?
On any purchase of this magnitude, you would think people would invest and apply themselves a little bit to "learn" the new capabilities of this car.
But it seems that we here in the states are used to having things simple, instant and convenient. Not a German trait.
Hell, my 92 735i doesn't even have a friggin cup holder!
I have trained many computer users with new software programs and other technologies... man, everything you hear about the "dumbing of America" is true. Many people just hate to adjust to change...of which without, we'd all be shifting our 3-speeds from the steering column.
After getting your computer set the way you want it, then programming in the phone book in your cellphone, learning how to write in your Palm, program the VCR, etc., the last thing you want to do is learn how to program your damn car.
Also, I can only speak for myself here, but I'm very conservative when it comes to driving and my life. I do not want to take my eyes off the road to look at the i-drive screen to see if I entered in the right sequence of knob shifts.
I guess I could learn the exact sequence of knob twists to change stations while driving and after I did that 12 times, it wouldn't be a problem -- so long as I survived.
Also, I like to drive sticks and typically drive with my left hand on steering and right hand on shift knob. I really don't want to take my hand off the stick to fiddle with the i-drive knob.
I've been working with and programming on computers for over 25 yrs (way back to PDP/VAX stuff) so I'm pretty comfortable working with computer technology. I just don't want to do it at 65 mph with other 2 ton lumps of metal near me doing the same speed. However, the argument seems to be that iDrive is just peachy and the only problem is that users are dumb or won't apply themselves or are unwilling to adjust to the technology. I guess that BMW will be safe in that knowledge when iDrive as we currently know it is pushed into obscurity either by legislation or by consumer resistance.
I can just hear Uncle Helmut blaming the computer-illiterate Americans for sabotaging his great technological advance in - errr, whatever iDrive is supposed to advance.
You gotta remember (whether we face it or not) that most of these type of sales are based on the "prestige", what the vehicle says, how much ego gets fed ..
When someone spends Big money, they want Big results and when you don't feel or touch it, then they buy something else ... when folks look and walk away (or they don't even look) then it's seen and felt very quickly .. when you trade that old 29k 01 740iL in for the new 745Li and nothing happens, then that can be a big ego, stature, (whatever you want to call it) slap right upside the head, all that for $70/$80 grand ..? .. thats why you see the sales are weak, and the trade values are even weaker on the new "7" ......
Terry.
I am...
the ATOMICPunk.
There are at least two of us that feel the same way. I have not test driven the new E60, but I spent some time at the dealers closely checking out a new 545. BMW did a great job at least in the styling dept. As far as the idrive I'll reiterate what others have said. It just is.
"In consultation with the German Board of Education, psychologists have agreed that IQ should now be measured with an iDrive test. Parameters for such test are in the process of being developed but will not be fully implemented until the release of the new 3-series, at which time the vision will have been fulfilled. BMW is being hailed for its accomplishments as iDrive is now considered the most significant achievement since the Gutenberg press, supplanting such status previously achieved by the internet."
Has anyone out there nailed it in under a minute? If so, you should feel very good about yourself because, reportedly, your IQ may be up over 160. The GBE is also recommending that 7-series owners who returned their cars for the buyback be classified in the 75-85 range and be administered lobotomies.
"An innovation, to be effective, has to be simple and has to be focused. It should do only one thing, otherwise, it confuses. All effective innovations are breathtakingly simple. Indeed, the greatest praise an innovation can receive is for people to say: This is obvious. Why didn't I think of it?" - Peter Drucker
As a converted BMW driver (2003 e39 SP) from MB, I can see why the new e60 has people wondering why BMW attempted to "fix" something that wasn't broken. As the US Director for a German technology firm that lists BMW as a major customer (supporting Product Development processes), I can say that my German friends concur with many of our observations about the e60 as well! My partner tells me to drive my '03 e39 for 200K miles!
I believe much of the problem lies in the new interior losing much of it's cockpit/driver-oriented layout. I drove the e60 while in Germany in September... had a full weekend in the Black Forest region near Karlsruhe.
Drove great! Got past the new exterior design, although it did not scream "you must have me!" The interior reminded me of '50's era GM sedans in concept, if not in execution (with a modern twist). As Driver's cars, my observation is that the intimate relationship of driver and controls has lost that special feeling.The new 645 does a nicer job of capturing this "feeling".
W.R.T. iDrive, etc...
Why navigate through varied menus when pushing a single button will do? Other controls in the 7, such as seating controls, are overly complex and require more interaction to perform a function more easily handled with the old design.
The transmission control interface on the column leaves me cold and is not intuitive for the wealthy drivers who desire these vehicles. I'd have pioneered some of these "user interfaces" on lower-production vehicles to test acceptance, then moved into higher-visibility lines as demand dictated. But, that's just me...
In my view, the 5 maintains all the dynamic attributes that makes BMW the best-driving car line on the planet. BMW brass certainly wants to sell cars, and I expect minor modifications to come along that improve the sensory and emotional connection that buyers desire.
However, knowing German engineers as I do, I find that they sometimes fail to appreciate the half of the brain they are not known for developing to its fullest;-) People buy, in large part, for emotional reasons... not logical ones! All this said, I fail to find an e60 competitor that drives better.
This issue has become so heated, in my opinion, precisely due to the emotional attachment e39 drivers have with their vehicles... and the e60 has failed to ignite the emotional appeal we all look for. Give it time, and let's hope BMW is listening!
the ATOMICPunk
Fantastic post. I agree with you that BMW will listen and this will likely result in a better, more "emotional" car as time goes on. The leap from new 7 to new 5 was convincing in showing me how much more mature BMW's new philosophy became. It'll get better.
To atomicpunk:
I agree with you 100% as well. I'm a 330I owner and appreciate the "classic" BMW style, but the 5 was unconvincing in photos initially. Well, seeing them on the road recently is an entirely different experience and they look *fastastic*, especially in darker colors. The new 5 looks like it is going 100mph standing still. Even the 7 series, which I think is flawed, has more "presence" on the road, in my opinion, than the new A8 and current S-class, which look quite pedestrian to me.
Just my $0.02.
Bret
It will be really interesting to see what happens to the 7, particularly the trunk treatment and iDrive. What BMW does with the "freshened" 7 may give some insight into the reality behind the posturing and give some indication whether or not they see some of the current themes as mistakes.
But I do like the styling of the 7/5 and would not hesitate to buy one.
Question I have is, if Bangle realized that the car would look terrible on film, why did he use that design?
You sell cars by making them look good on film. You can't expect to show a car that looks bad on film and then have buyers come into showrooms and say "Well, it really looks better in person." Most people just aren't going to bother.
KD, with the nav, you can choose not to buy a NAV option. You don't have that choice with i-drive. Presumably, if you've chosen to buy a NAV car, you're willing to sit down and take the time to learn it. If your research shows you don't like the NAV, don't buy!
(A couple of the buttons on the steering wheel are programmable in case there's something you REALLY need to be able to do without breaking your concentration.)
As I was test driving an E60 with sports package, hauling butt down a bumpy, twisty road, the LAST thing I was thinking about was adjusting the three-zone air flow or programming a radio station.
Either drive or iDrive. Don't try to do both.
The reason I bought a BMW to begin with is it's handling prowess. I like the looks of the new 7/5 but don't let BMW mess with it's legendary handling. Don't let reliability go down the tubes because of these electronic wizmos, which will fail anyway on every car in 10 years. There is not a car made that will not have a problem with this electronic componentry as time goes on. You can't isolate this stuff from road salt, potholes/bad roads and vibrations, extreme temperature changes outside and in the engine compartment, and moisture. You just know it's gonna fail sooner or later.
I've read in several publications that the 5 represents 20-something percent of BMW sales but 60-something percent of their profits. As such it's generally viewed as the most important model in their line from a business standpoint. Am I damned to the non-Bimmerphile wilderness?
kdshapiro -- I've been driving an E60 for a bit now, and I've been reflecting on the difference between the I-Drive and the button/indicator-clogged dashboards of the Volvo, Audi and Mercedes. When the number of buttons (80% of which are used only once or twice a month) covers most of the visible panels, the I-drive (or equivalent) device starts to make sense. Still a lot of evolution needed to figure out what really needs to be immediately available as a button vs. nested in screen menus, but I think the existence of screen-based soft-buttons and soft-indicators is a given. A lot of work is clearly still needed to get it right, of course. Agree with you that it'll be bug-ridden for a while.
In ten years, you may see a plastic display film over a smooth dash that reconfigures itself to a custom touch-sensitive dash display (much like Windows or Mac does today on a screen). So the 10 items you need/want are the only ones that appear. Of course, that'll be a bug-ridden pain in the *ss when it appears, too.
Have a good weekend--
My digital camera allows some reconfiguration of the menu system, idrive should as well. But I want to be able to control, the radio, cruise and climate control system without taking my eyes off the road for any longer period of time than necessary.
If they're going to offer i-drive, they should get it right. BMW should not be charging its customer base to be guinea pigs. They're not a monopoly like Microsoft so they can't get away with it.
When the time came to determine how to structure the menus, I'm pretty sure they did this by locking a dozen ad execs in a room with a box of crayons, some construction paper, and a couple cases of Old Milwaukee, and poof! Magical iDrive!
At least they were consistent - horrible interface & menus coupled with a Microsoft operating system. Next we have to figure out where they hid the "Ctrl," "Alt," and "Delete" buttons.
How about BMW pays a starving comp sci grad student twenty bucks to design an intuitive interface and sensible menus?
I've seen some that type of stuff, no thanks either...
They need to hire the guy that designed Visual Basic..Alan somebody or another.
Reason 1: To clean up the interior of button-itis syndrome (witness the S-class, new E-class, and new 9-3). I actually think this is still a notable goal.
Reason 2: At the time I-drive was conceived (roughly late 90's), everything "technological" and smacking of "information age" was hot and being snapped up by consumers as fast as possible. I had friends in the industry at that time who were predicting we'd all be walking around with headset based computers and implantable ID chips by now. Everyone was rushing to "net" their most mundane products. Also witness Cadillac's decision to make the CTS center console look like a computer tower stack, also made at the same time. That decision and the I-drive, in the newer age of info backlash and rational application of technology, look pretty stupid now, and I-drive wasn't helped by poor design. I remember seeing a spy photo of the 7-series interior in one of the European car mags in the late 90's and it was talking about how far ahead BMW was and how it was going to "beat everyone to the information superhighway." Funny how culture and desires can change, huh? Also funny how we all forget recent history...
Bret
Did a lot of test driving to decide between a 2003 E39, an E60 and a 7 series. In terms of styling, performance and comfort, the E60 knocked me out. I thought the E39 was fine. A great car. Nothing bad to say about it. But the E60 is better.
As always, these things are matters of opinion. The E39 has its faithful and the E60 has (and is developing) its own.
For my part, I'm excited about BMW's new direction and hope to see more of the same.
try changing radio stations with idrive 1.0 while driving and then let's see your reaction.
who knows? maybe bmw did get idrive 2.0 right this time, but they screwed up so royally with idrive 1.0 that a lot of people just don't want to have anything to do with it (only get one chance to make a good first impression).
also, my exp. when trying to switch radio stations with idrive (remember idrive 1.0 is 8 ways, not 4 ways) is that if I were off by a little i'd be in a completely different menu and i'd be switching some other settings. then i'd have to go back and switch those settings back. it gets to a point where you set somethings with idrive and then you don't touch anything.
so if bmw's purpose was to put in a function in the car that encouraged people to never fiddle with climate controls or lighting (sometimes you need to read a map at night), well they succeeded.
Not true. Look at Infiniti. Although they still get bashed.
Ordered my 2004...pickup at Performance Center in S. Carolina. Will break this baby in on drive back to Chicago....heheheheheh!