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Cabover Camper Chat
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Funny problem with the rock, I never thought about it being a singley owner. My 89 Ford has a nasty design flaw that led to a similar problem. Twice I got a small rock stuck between the front brake rotor and the metal splash shield (or whatever that thin metal piece surrounding most of the rotor is). Talk about noise, oh my. You've never heard such a loud shrill shrieking noise. It sounds like the front end is going to fall off the truck any second. The only fix is to remove the tire and fish out the rock with a wire or something. After the second time I covered the opening in the top of the splash shields with a S.S. metal mesh. No problems since. I'm amazed this problem even existed on such a mature product when it happened to me twice in less than 15k miles. Guess I'm just lucky.
I had a rock get stuck in between the brake disk and the shield about 6 times going up the Dalton Highway. First time was a panic - we are in the middle of nowhere and this horrible sound. I quickly discovered the cause and the cure.
Stop, back up 10 feet and resume. Worked every time.
It is amazing where that gravel goes when you are driving on a gravel road. I must have brought 100lbs of it back with us. In the frame, in the rear bumper, on top of anything that has a top and is under the truck.
One thing that this truck has never gotten, and everyother disk braked vehicle I've ever noticed is brake dust on the wheels.
21,000 miles and the wheels have never gotten that brown/black ugly appearance. It is either a miracle brake pad material, or air flows from out to in through the wheels, or the clear coat will not allow the brake dust to stick. Sure looks a lot nicer than any Mercedes I see on the road.
Mike
I have 557mi on the truck, & it just purrs like a kitten. No noise, shakes or rattles.
Gary-
Gary, the first change is no different than any other during the warranty period. It is fine to do your own work, even the manual says so, just keep a record and keep your receipts. I've started an envelope just for oil and filter receipts and I'll stick with AC Delco filters for now. I suggest you change the oil around 1000 miles. I did the Oil Minder reset thing and it didn't respond. I expected this from reading similar posts about the 2000 models.
Mike(s), does your oil message flash when you do the reset?
Yes my truck will indicate when I have reset the oil minder. In fact, last time I reset it at a stoplight on the way to your house.
Turn off the key. Turn on the key. Wait until the warning lights quit changing (15 seconds?). Throttle to the floor 3 times in 5 seconds. The oil change light then blinks rapidly at me. I would worry the computer did not accept the change if it doesn't flash back at me.
I've gotten quotes from 3 dealers for a 3/4 ton truck. Most of them won't believe you can buy a manual transmission in this truck. One dealer looked for a vehicle that he could trade for, and he said there is not a single manual trans 3/4 ton truck in California and I would have to order it. Not a big problem, except to him. He wants to close a deal today. What I need to do is to take my truck in and find out what they will give me in trade. Then I know my bottom line when I want to sell it.
Later,
Mike
I would think your old truck would sell around this time of year, & as I remember, it was a nice looking truck. Good luck. I'll let you know how it went moving the camper for the first.
Gary-
I've been using Mobil 1 0W-30 or 5W-30 since the 2nd oil change at 2500 miles.
I've used Mobil 1 for over 100,000 miles in a couple of other vehicles I have. Works well for me. But, probably any modern oil that meets the current requirements will suffice. Much more important to use quality filters, the correct oil and frequent oil changes than what brand you use.
Mike L
Gary-
Gary, as long as you have receipts I wouldn't worry about the warranty. They can't make it a condition of the warranty to have all work done at the dealer. I used 10-30 Castrol (Kragen had a 99 cent sale on it). Since it doesn't get very cold here the 10-30 is fine but when I switch to synthetic I'll use the 5-30. Don't use 10-40. The AC Delco filters looked pretty good in that crazy guy's filter analysis that has caused such a stir in the web motor-head community (I assume you have seen it). For sure GM can't complain about warranty if you use their filter. I'd like to use the AC Delco Gold version if I can locate some. Anyone know where to buy them (and don't say Auto-Zone!)?
I got my Air Lifts today that were ordered from Lance. Remember when I mentioned to you the bags were different? Well, now I know what makes them different. It shows a cut away version, & inside the bag, the bottom portion, is a jounce bumper, therefore keeping them from bottoming out if you should lose air. It does say to keep 5 lbs. in them. Long as they do the job there intended for, I'll be happy. Won't be moving the camper tomorrow...Sow level down to 1500' possible here in the Grass Valley foothills. Might be kind of nice actually. By the way Vince, where did you install your air valves on the truck? For the air bags that is.
Gary-
When I took delivery of my truck the PF59 was hard to find, so I had the dealer sell me 5 at cost. I'm down to my last one.
Mike
I promised Mike2 that I would send him any hints I
had about installation. I'll post them here since
it's a short list and Gary you may be interested.
This applies to the Air Lift Super Duty bags.
It's a pretty straightforward job and I really
only have one issue. The upper bracket connects
with a horizontal screw in the center for which you
have to drill a hole, and a vertical screw on one
end which uses the hole for the jounce bumper
previously removed. The other end of the bracket is
just a straight metal flange which is supposed to
sit flat against the bottom of the frame. The
problem is, as they point out in the instructions,
that the 3/4 ton frame isn't flat in the vertical screw area, it
slopes away so there is a gap between the bracket end and the frame. The instructions imply that this is
okay, it will all work out in the end (at first I assumed the bracket would just bend into place). Well what
happens is when you hold the bracket in place to
mark for the drilled hole it seems fine but when
you tighten the screws it isn't. As you tighten the
vertical end screw it causes the bracket to rotate
about the center screw and the flange on the other end of the
bracket isn't even touching the frame. The whole
bracket is tilted and this forces the top of the
air bag to be tilted so the top and bottom aren't
parallel. I didn't like that for long term life of
the bags, plus it's just goofy.
So I reformed their bracket by using a BIG hammer
and a BIG vise. I bent it so the vertical screw end
more closely followed the frame contour. Then as
the end screw was tightened the metal was already
up against the frame and the bracket didn't rotate
as much. Still not perfect but better.
Maybe there is a better solution but this is what
I did. If you aren't a picky so and so like I am it
would probably be fine as is.
Just called my local camper dealer, my Lance 820 has been built (in CA) and is on the way (to FL). I better finish my camper wiring this week to get ready!
Mike2
I did use a 1 1/2" knockout in the cab underside near the rear seat (for amateur antenna and tuner controls). I haven't found a good waterproof cable entrance clamp for the 1 1/2" hole. Anyone have some ideas?
Mike2
The knockout isn't really a knockout. It's a circle pressed into the firewall sheetmetal to mark the location for you. You have to drill the hole. On the inside, the plastic and foam firewall liner has a corresponding circle cutout you can lift back. To find the spot look in the engine compartment, on the firewall in the upper corner area, driver's side.
Sorry I didn't get you the bag mounting note earlier. What did you do on the brackets? Did you have the same problem?
I had the same air lift bracket problem you had. I decided to do minimal work and I drilled the hole favoring mounting too high to compensate. Still has a small gap but after the first drive seems to be touching. I'll check it out some more after a few more miles.
I'm going to start seriously shopping for a camper as soon as my GMC 2500 SB gets here. (was shipped Mon 6 DEC). I like the 820 and I am wondering if there is a place I can find out what is the dealer cost. Any info you can give me on how to get the best price would be appreciated.
Thanks
Hi this is Mike or Mike2 for the edmunds postings.
I don't have dealer costs. The 2000 Lance Worksheet at the dealers have the Retail pricing listed for the 820 at $13741. Retail options can total up to $10057 more. Also included normally is destination costs (depends on where you live, from CA to FL could be about $800-900), and sales tax.
I ordered mine with just about everything: exterior, decor, convenience, and all weather packages; water heat, generator, cd, tv ant, fantastic vent, ac/heat, queen mattress, and rear awning. Make sure you order the prewire for solar panel, it's inexpensive ($25) and hard to add later.
Not too many Lance dealers to compete for the business but you can probably get some where between 10-20% off retail. I got close to 15% off and feel fine with that. Wish I got a better deal on my truck though, but at least I have one=>
yr 2000 LS 2500 4X4 ext cab SB indigo blue/ pewter.
You should consider the weight and center of gravity with your new truck and camper combo. You didn't say if your truck was 4X4 and ext cab. If you have 2WD you probably can't go with the Lance 820 because of the much lower payload and GVWR specs. The 820 is 2421 lbs dry, 2773 lbs with no options. The option weights are listed in the Lance catalog on p29. Depending on what you get for options and what you put in the camper will tell you how far your OVERLOADED! Check the previous posting on camper weights and A,B center of gravity measurements too. You will need Air Lifts for sure, and probably sway bar.
Let me know if you need more info, or maybe less!
Mike2
Mike L
Is the 2500 2wd available in HD with short box?
I think tgangly indicated he had short box, but not sure about 2wd or HD.
Mike2
Vince/Mike- To refresh my memory, did either of you get floor mats? I'm thinking of getting the Weather Tec mats. I can get a good price as well.
Gary-
Of course you first have to remove your tailgate. Once you have the camper jacked up, the key is to back in straight and centered from the start. Imagine (or measure and mark) the center line of the camper and the truck, then line them up when backing. I lean over so I'm sighting down the true center and don't have a parallax error. If you get in crooked you're better off starting over because there is little correction possible at that point. Once it gets to the wheel wells then those are your reference. It doesn't have to be exactly centered but shouldn't be touching one. From there just go back straight.
Where to stop is important. I learned the hard way with my first camper/truck that the front wall of a pickup bed is weak. I had to slam the brakes once and the camper bent the front edge until the cab stopped it. That camper didn't have rubber bumpers on the front like my Lance does. If your's doesn't, you must put a 2x4 or something down in the bed. Since you have the Happijac cross bar that would stop it too but with damage. You want to stop just about when the rubber bumpers touch. You may find that the camper moves a little when dropped down. If there is a gap in the front then any sharp stop will remove it so I prefer to not have one in the first place. The top of the bed in my last truck rubbed against the camper so I put some cardboard in between. I built a carpeted board with a 2x4 spacer for my old old truck.
Remember this note to keep from cursing. Connect the electrical before dropping the camper.
I assume you have hydraulic jacks. For your first time you may wish to drop each corner a little at a time to have maximum control. Otherwise you can loosen each valve a little so the camper slowly drops down evenly. Be careful doing this off the truck, I almost had an emergency recently when I allowed one corner to drop too fast, the camper almost fell over! It was careless and I learned my lesson.
When you tighten the turnbuckles they should be snug but remember they have springs/rubber inside so you don't want to tighten so much to compress them fully. After driving a few miles check them again because things settle & shift. I guess with your Line-X the camper may be very stable. I also check tightness on the road and before leaving campsites.
One final note. I've learned a trick that works well with an automatic, you may already do this too. My driveway is uphill so you have to give a little gas to go up. As I'm sure you have felt, automatics tend to not move then as you increase power they surge and go. This is a good way to smash the camper into the front of the bed (guy who bought my old camper did exactly that in my driveway). My method is to sit fairly heavy on the gas so you are over that surge hump and regulate the truck motion with the brake. This gives very fine control.
Good luck, let us know how many attempts it takes!
Gary-
Vince, Congratulations and selling the old workhorse of a Ford. And thanks for the idea you just gave me. I can lay a piece of tape down the middle of the bed, another piece on the middle of the lower part of the camper front. It will be much easier to line the tapes up than to eyeball the side to side centering of the camper.
Grizzly, I only have the factory floor mats. I'm not unhappy with them. It is after all, a truck and I expect it to get dirty. I still have Alaska gravel in the frame, and on the floor.
My wife still thinks we need to be under the max GVWR. So I've been looking at 3/4 ton trucks. Seems you can get the custom cloth and folding center seat section in a GMC base model. Can't get an LS because the wife is afraid of power windows.
I guess we all have our little quirks, and I only have to put up with hers, while she has to put up with mine.
The only std. LS item that is not available on the GMC base model (SL) is the power windows. Of course, the Aluminum wheels and fog lights are not available either. And the price is about $500 (only) lower. The power windows don't look so bad to me. How to convince the wife. Maybe if I tell her it is her Christmas present she will be so excited she won't notice in the 5-10 years we own the truck. Maybe when she has the power windows, she will like the feature.
Wish me luck,
Mike L
Newest "car" feature in pickups is the key pad entry. I wished I had one while I lay on my back under the pickup in an Ohio Turnpike rest area getting the magnetic key holder from under the pickup bed. Next truck I get will have key pad.
Gary-
Gary-
If you both are happy with the current truck then you should keep it. I think it has proven that the small weight excess is no problem. The recommended max from the manufacturer includes subjective components like acceleration & handling, it doesn't mean the truck will break if you exceed it a little. If you do get serious about a new one, try and spend some time in a LS. The package does have some nice gizmos but more importantly has better seats and more sound insulation. Maybe the power windows will become more acceptable with familiarity.
The upgraded seats are available in the base GMC w/o the power windows. Might be an acceptable compromise for us. I can get the 4wd 2500, Firm Ride, Appearance Package, Convenience Group (AC, Power Locks, UM6 Radio, CC), Posi, Aux Batt, Skid Plates, Sliding RR Window, and more for $23750.
I think the GMC comes with the sound and heat insulation standard also. I'm still thinking about it. The dealers probably hate customers like me - not in a hurry to buy, and undecided which make to buy. Now they have to convince me to order from them instead of "What do we have to do to get you to drive this truck home today?" They like that instant gratification.
Later,
Mike
You don't need to worry about the "What will it take..." line since you want a manual transmission. Once they hear that they'll start looking for another customer. I was amazed by the arrogant salesmen I ran into a few years ago at Ford and Dodge. They just aren't hungry enough around here.
Vince I'll try and get some weight numbers this week so I can get out of being the "overload king". Or maybe I'll just have to accept the title!! Will wait a while (get some camper experience) before I attempt the boat/trailer/camper combo.
Vince, Stabbur thanks also for the camper loading info, it sure helped me the "first time". Not a lot of spare clearance but no scratches yet!
Mike2
80 psi is a lot, I didn't think I would need
anywhere near that much. Air Lift says the bags
will lift approximately 40 lbs per 1 psi which
works out to 4000 lbs at the maximum allowed 100
psi. Of course these are "5000 lb" air bags, isn't
marketing wonderful! So at 80 psi you are lifting
3200 lbs if you just brought it back to normal ride height. I guess that's about right if we assume the 40lbs/psi is rough and your camper weighs around 2800+ lbs, however the truck springs are also providing lift so I'm confused. I assumed the springs would do the bulk of the job and the bags would just help. Do you maybe have too much air?
How much did your camper end up weighing? The
sticker should include a full load of water and
propane plus the options you have.
I'm curious, how did the truck do without the
assist? Did it squat down very low? How is the ride with 80 psi? I remember you don't have a sway bar yet but did you get the firm ride option? I didn't and I wonder how the shocks will handle the load. If you haven't had a camper before then you don't have a reference for side-to-side lean but take my word for it, the bar is absolutely the right thing for this top-heavy load. I'll be putting my camper on next week finally. I'll let you know how it feels compared to the old Ford.
I've heard that some camper manufacturers will void the warranty if you have some kind of shock or cushion between the overhang and the truck. This may not apply to what you're talking about, but I'd call the camper mfg unless you're sure.
Mounted the bracket on top of the bumper where we discussed. Seems to work OK. We are going to Death Valley between Christmas and New Years so we will see how it works.
My dad used to have those long shocks between the camper overhang and the truck body. He said it made a big difference. But that was with the old flexible frames. These new trucks have very rigid frames by comparison, and it may not be needed.
I've tried to watch the camper in the center rear view mirror while on rough stretches. Never noticed any movement. I used to be able to see the bed move on my old truck. The new frames are rigid and yours should be even more so.
Mike L
Without the Air Lifts, I was riding on the bumpstops. The stops are nice and soft and the truck still rode OK with 2-3" of travel. I like having another 3" of travel before I hit the stops.
Mike, did you add air to get it back to empty height or to level it? I would agree that 80 psi seems like a lot of pressure. And 3200lbs sounds like a lot of load to take off the springs.
Good Luck,
Mike L
Mike, your camper is so light and non top heavy this probably isn't an issue for you in any case.