Cabover Camper Chat

vince4 · December 1999

Mike1, you only bring the truck back to level, not to unloaded ride height? The Air Lift literature says to add air until it is back to normal ride height. I think less is okay, they just don't want people to try and lift it higher.

My original intention in buying these things was to bring it back to unloaded ride height for headlight aim etc. But my truck sits quite high in the back w/o load so I'm not sure if I need to go all that way. Do you notice any headlight aim problems?

mcollins2 · December 1999

Vince and Mike L: Just checked the pressure in the air lifts; to get close to the original empty height of 24.5" (ctr of axle to fender) I put 80 psi in the left side and 60 psi in the right side. Height is now about 24". Not sure why left side requires more, since generator, refrig and lpg tanks are on the right side.??

Truck didn't squat much at all (had several people watching and they all were shocked). I did have about 20-25 psi in the Airlifts to begin with and went up to about 50 psi with the camper load.

Truck handling seems fine, engine and transmission strong, brakes work great. I did notice some leaning on the turns. Vince your right, I need a stabilizer bar for sure. Let me know how yours works. I do have the Z85 HD Suspension Pkg. I tried the tow/haul mode and I like it.

The Lance 820 sticker shows 2773 lbs wet (39Gal Water, 40 lb LPG, 5cuft ice) but this is for a standard config, i.e. no options.

I had the torklift front tiedown welded today. The guy did a great job for only $5. I'm back in action!!

How do I locate a scale or weigh station? I wonder what to look up in the yellow pages to find one in the area?

Mike2

Brutus · December 1999

Vince, I think the things I read about were more like air bag cushions between the cabover and roof of the truck, not shocks. If Lance is recommending what you're looking at buying, you can be assured that they, not only won't void the warranty, but will also improve the ride quality.

vince4 · December 1999

I'll send you my nasty-gram to Hellwig with bar details. It fits but not perfect. However it only costs $120-$135 which is cheaper than the other companies (who don't have one ready yet anyway). It only helps of course, you will always have lean with such a load. You learn to just relax and take your time driving.

Places with scales: highway patrol weigh stations, rock yards, the dump. Mike L had his weighed I think, where Mike? I'm surprised Lance doesn't give you a final number with installed options. Did the dealer install some? If not I would call Lance and ask. Are you sure that sticker isn't an "as built" weight?

mcollins2 · December 1999

Hi Vince - Thanks for the Hellwig info. Will keep handy when I decide to buy.

The Lance didn't give a as-built weight. They did give the wet weight of 2773 and a list of options with their weights. Air 100, Side Awning 51, Elec Jacks 40, Fiberglass 60, Oven 24, Gen 118, Gen Ready 30, Mattress 46, Storm Windows 24, Decor Pkg 20, Conv Pkg 20, Weather Pkg 20, Std Cab -80.

I have everything except Side Awning, Oven, Storm Windows, Std Cab. That totals to: 454 lbs. Grand total of 3227 lbs. Sure glad I have the elec Jacks!! The new Lances have a wireless remote control for the Jacks; with a camper switch enabling the remote for 10 minutes.

I need to get to a scale soon!

Mike2

mledtje · December 1999

I brought my truck up to level with the Air Lifts, not back to original. I like to keep the camper fairly level, makes it easier to level the rig when I get to a campsite. If I kept to the original height, I'd have to raise the front 2-3" to level the camper. I'm thinking about buying the Air Lift pump so I can use the air bags to level the camper.

Since my camper is on most of the time, I adjusted the headlights with the camper on. I rarely drive at night, except here in town where the streetlights reduce the need for headlights, so I have them too low without the camper. If I need to travel at night minus the camper, I will adjust them; it only takes a couple of minutes.

I weighed my outfit a couple of times. Once at a grain elevator. I weighed front, both and rear. Then again, in Canada and the midwest there are scales mounted to the side of the road at turnouts. I guess the highway patrol uses them for random inspections and the rest of the time they are available for public use. The two scales gave me the same numbers, so it must be accurate.

3100 F and 3400 R for a total of 6500 lbs on a 6400 lb GVWR. Gives me several hundred pounds under the axle ratings. I'd worry if I exceeded the axle rating. Having a bearing fail in the middle of nowhere is not my idea of fun.

Brutus, I never considered adding the camper shocks to my camper. You're right, its too light to need it. My point was that older trucks had flexible frames, even when empty! And they needed the help when a camper was added. And the new 3/4 ton may not need it because the new frames are much stronger than the old ones. In my dad's old camper, you could see the camper sway several inches at the front and the camper shocks really helped.

Later,

Mike L

Brutus · December 1999

I weighed my truck at the city dump. I didn't believe that it weighed over 7,000 pounds, so I took up the street to a gravel pit scale and got the same weight reading. With the camper on and me in it, I've weighed it in at over 11,700. My GVWR is 11,200.

I'm going to try to take some pictures of it over the holiday. I've got a 10 day break from work, so I am going to put it on. The camper and truck won't be at their best appearance-wise. It is winter up here, so they won't be the cleanest looking and they definitely won't be waxed. The camper was clean when I stored it, but we've had some snow (not enough in my opinion). I haven't fiddled around with a website yet, but I'm pretty sure I found a site to post some pictures on. I'll let you know when and if I get them on the web.

pistolero · December 1999

I've been reading all your posts in a few topics and you seem like the man to talk to. I know you have that Bigfoot at 3900 lbs and are talking about putting airbags on later. I'm getting a F-350 CC V-10 SWB DRW in February or so, and plan on buying a Lance 820 which weighs in wet at about 3000. In your opinion should I still think about installing bags? I got the camper package so have the little bit of extra boost it provides, one spring or whatever. I'd appreciate your ideas. Thanks

Brutus · December 1999

If I were you, I would go without the airbags at first. The truck will handle the load without a problem. The Superduties sit a little higher in the back, so the camper makes the truck sit pretty level. Since I know what the truck looks and feels like empty, I know that I am sitting back a little. My headlights also ride a little higher, although they are not in the trees.

Chances are you may choose to get the airbags in the future. By not getting them right away, you can have a good before & after feel for the ride of the truck. The reason I am getting the airbags is so the truck will sit with the camper on like it does without it on. Even though I'm satisfied with the ride now, I think the truck will handle better if it sits the way it was designed. Weight distribution and braking factors should be optimized.

Make sure the Lance dealer knows that you have a Ford Supeduty so that he will include the platform with the installation. You absolutely need a platform. The cabs of the Superduties are higher. The cabover part of the camper will clear the cab, but there is not adequate clearance for some bumps you may encounter. My platform is basically 2x4s and plywood, but the dealer did a real nice job of putting it together. I get no movement of the camper or the platform when driving.

I've got the Supercab 4x4 dually and 4.30 axle ratio. I get 11.5-12 hwy empty and 8.5-9 with the camper. I can get close to 10 with the camper on flat hwys if I keep the speed at 55mph. Normally, I'm driving in the low to mid 60s and the hwys are not flat. The 2000 V-10s seem to be getting a little better mpg, despite having more hp and torque. If you get the 3.73s, your empty mpg should be 1-2mpg better. I'm not sure that you will do much better with the camper. Your camper will be about 1,000 pounds lighter, but the CC vs the SC probably adds about 400 pounds or so. If you have the 2x4 vs the 4x4, that will also make you a little lighter.

jraske · December 1999

Iam planning on getting a cab over for my beast, what I would like to know is how much trouble is it to modify the front jacks to clear the duals?
Also what type of tie down set up do you have?
Thanx John

Brutus · December 1999

It sounds like you haven't bought the camper yet. If you're buying it new, you can order it with the dually swing-out brackets. That what I did. I'm not sure how easy or difficult it is to install them yourself, but the swing-out brackets are a common option with most manufacurers when you buy new, just like ordering the awning or AC. Once you've got the swing-out brackets, they operate the same as the normal jacks.

My tiedowns are mounted to the frame on all four corners. The part of tie-down that stays on the truck is bolted directly to the frame. Another piece with the chain attached can be removed when the camper is not on, so the tie-down mounts are not visible when the camper is not on unless you get down and look under the truck. With my setup, nothing is attached to the bed, with the exception of the power cord. My power cord comes up through a small hole in the bed near the front of the bed on the driver's side. I like the setup. I was taking it on and off quite a bit during the summer. It would take me about 45 minutes to load and 35 to unload.

pistolero · December 1999

Thanks for your thoughts about the airbags, that was pretty much what I was leaning towards doing. I've got the 4X4, most options, and hopefully will be driving out from the Midwest to visit friends and pick up a camper in Washington or Oregon in the March/April timeframe. In your previous posts you've spoken pretty highly of your tiedown system, but never mentioned a product name. Are these available on the market or just something you or somebody else made?? Sounds like a great idea. Thanks

vince4 · December 1999

For those of you with campers 5+ years old you should take a look at your roof. My camper is 8 yrs old and the sealant on the roof joints (vent openings etc.) is totally cracked and useless. I finally finished resealing it this weekend. I used a product called Parrbond Clear that I bought from the Lance dealer. It is a very thick liquid that you paint on with a brush. A bit of a nasty job but the dealer said this product would out last any common sealant. My roof is aluminum, I don't know if this product can be used on rubber roofs. The goo cost $42/gallon and it took about 1/3 gallon. This is a job you should do before it really needs it. Then you can lay the new sealer over the old and don't have much prep work. Probably every other year would be good.

mcollins2 · December 1999

Anyone locate a deep cycle battery that will fit the second battery tray for the 99 or 00 Silverado? Vince did you get one yet?
Mike2

Brutus · December 1999

The tie-down setup was installed by the camper dealer. I had never owned a truck camper before, so I had no idea how it would be installed. I just drove my stock truck into the camper dealership, left it with them for a couple of hours and then drove away with the camper on. The way they installed my camper appears to be the way they install all of their campers. They did use the standard wimpy turnbuckles. You definitely need to replace those with the heavier duty ones that have little shock absorbers in them.

vince4 · December 1999

I called the dealer and AC Delco to get the info. They do make a deep cycle version but the dealer doesn't stock it. He offered to order it, he didn't know the cost but the regular one is $95. This isn't as bad as it sounds, I saw a similar AC Delco battery at K-Mart for $89.

It is the same size as the truck battery, group 78, I have the p/n at home and will post it later. Exide makes a group 78 but I don't know about deep cycle.

I'm just going to order it from the dealer but I haven't got around to it yet.

vince4 · December 1999

I don't understand the math. The total width adds up to 51.5 inches which would leave plenty of room.

It's too bad you are having so much trouble fitting the camper. Is it an old one? I thought those built in the last 10 years would fit any truck. The 4 inch gap and taking off the bumper both suck, I wouldn't do either. It sounds like the Ford is the way to go. The platform will help the tank clear the bumper so it should fit fine.

What brand and size camper do you have?

vince4 · December 1999

The deep cycle battery for the aux location is an AC Delco 78-7YR. Let me know if you get one, I'll do the same.

mcollins2 · December 1999

Vince - I think the AC Delco 78-7YR is a starting battery. I haven't had any luck finding a deep cycle that is group 78 and height of 7.3". I guess the bracket that goes on the top must be removed for good. Still not sure what I'll use. Looking at some GelCells but may end up with the 78-7YR.
Mike2

stabbur · December 1999

Taking the distances from the center of the camper is the best way to understand. The camper bottom is 47 and 3/4 wide, so there is 23 and 7/8 on each side of the center line. The projection where the bath is is 4 inches so I add that to 23 and 7/8. That gives me 27 and 7/8. The opening between the pillars just inside the tail gate is 60 and 1/2. So I have 30 and a quarter to work with. If I have the camper centered between the wheel wells I then have 2 and 5/8 between the bathroom projection and the box. I was wrong when I said one inch in my earlier message, I had mistakenly split the 2 and 5/8 between the two sides. Anyway, after getting used to putting the camper on my 95 Ford where the width is 64 inches total it looked like one inch.

It will fit, just not as easy to do.

The camper is a 10 foot Sunlite pop up with a full bath.

I looked at the Super Duty Ford yesterday, and it now has a 60 inch wide bed at the rear of the tapered box. So what the General started several years ago has now spread to all of the big three.

The salesman at Ford is checking out utility boxes to go on a Superduty 350 cab/chassis for me. Probably too pricy but it might work. He has previously sold me three trucks and wants to help. The Dodge guy tried a highball deal that really turned me off but straightened out when I told him what his original invoice was on the used truck. The more I look at the new vehicles, the better my'95 seems.

stabbur · December 1999

For small repairs I have found that Seam Grip, a seam sealant sold by EMS, REI, and other outdoor sporting goods stores works very well. It comes in a tube, and goes on in a thick layer that retains its elasticity for several years even when exposed to continuous sun. Make sure they don't sell you the "K coat" type, which wouldn't do the job. This is only practical for small jobs. I have used it around screw holes where the polystyrene fittings in the roof have cracked and also removed the shrinking silicone sealant and made a repair where the aluminum meets the rubber roof around the roof vents. It would not be practical for a larger area, but for small areas it would save buying a gallon of coating. I wish manufacturers would switch to ABS or some other plastic for these fittings. Polystyrene degrades too fast in the sun.

vince4 · December 1999

I called the dealer and he looked up the aux battery spec and found it was a group 78. Then I called AC Delco directly and got the p/n for a deep cycle group 78 and that is what he gave me. There was no ambiguity in our conversation, he said that was the deep cycle version. Maybe he was wrong, it should be easy to find out. A call to the dealer or AC Delco would do it. Do you want to do that? I talked to a different dealer yesterday, he quoted $79.95 for the std battery and said GM is closed for the holidays so forget ordering until next year. Interesting that one dealer quoted $95 and the other $80 for the same part.

I don't want to remove that bracket. It seems like an important structural component. If you are willing to remove it then you can fit any battery in that location and your problem is solved. I'll order the battery after the holidays and let you know.

vince4 · December 1999

Well Mike, you are correct. I just called AC Delco again and got a normal guy with a functioning brain, unlike the last guy I talked with. They don't make a deep cycle group 78 battery, only group 24, 27, & 30. I found the key words to wake up the brain-dead at Delco are marine/RV and Voyager (their brand name). So back to square one. Our choices are to use a std battery, remove the bracket, or keep looking. I'll check with Exide but likely they don't make one either. There probably isn't much demand for such an oddball battery in boats and RVs. If that doesn't pan out I'll just go with the std battery and be done with it.

mledtje · December 1999

This is my last logon this year. We get to drive from Santa Clara up to Oroville to visit my wife's parents. Then it is off to Death Valley and some serious 4 wheel trails.

It's been fun on this discussion group, and I look forward to picking up again next year!

Everybody have a Merry Christmas and a safe New Year celebration.

I hope you all have a joyous and prosperous 2000.

Best Regards,

Mike L

vince4 · December 1999

Same to you. By the way, Oroville is sort of the long way around to get to Death Valley! Let us know about the trails, I'm due for visit there myself.

vince4 · December 1999

The next installment. Exide doesn't publish a direct line so I called an auto store. They left a message with Exide and are supposed to call back (ya right).

I called Intersate Battery and talked with a good guy. They do make it but it is a dual terminal version. This should work if the top terminals miss the bracket. Otherwise they could be hacksawed off. He also gave me a few other numbers.

C78DTXHD 120 min, 725 cca, dual terminal
10 5/16 x 6 7/8 x 7 13/16 (L x W x H)

C75DTXHD 100 min, 525 cca, dual terminal
9 1/2 x 7 1/4 x 8 3/8

C74XHD 130 min, 575 cca, side terminal
10 1/4 x 7 1/4 x 8 3/8

It looks like only the 78 is short enough. Now I have to find a local dealer and get a price. These guys sell to gas stations etc. and the price tends to be high.

grizzly1 · December 1999

Death Valley sounds great. Just went through Oroville last week. Well guys, I'm just about to sell a Lance camper after my episode trying to load the damn thing. I knew it would be TIGHT, but when you only have about 3/4" lee way on each wheel well, due to the fact I have a 6" protrusion ( where the shower is) which has to fit through the tail gate opening. If I don't back the truck in PERFECTLY straight, then I have to start all over again. I gave it my best shot, & kept my cool I might add, but will attempt it again soon.
Have a safe trip Mike, & a fantastic holiday. Vince, sounds like the tolerances on your camper are a bit more forgiving than mine. That extra 2" on mine sure makes a difference. I'll figure it out in due time. You too have a wounderful holiday. Merry Christmas everyone!

Gary-

vince4 · December 1999

Hang in there, it'll work. My old camper had a protrusion like that on BOTH sides and when installed had about 1/2 inch clearance on each side. I got pretty good putting it on, sometimes getting it on the first try. You can manuver somewhat midway through, just not very much. If I wasn't way off I would just turn the wheel all the way and if the wheel well rubbed lightly not worry about it. Once it was that far on the tailgate clearance was the priority. I stood a thin board against each wheel well to protect the camper during loading and driving. You probably don't need to do that since you have Line-X. Don't worry about the camper being on perfectly straight because it will either stay put and be fine or adjust itself in which case you just retighten the turnbuckles. Did you neighbor help since he has experience with it?

grizzly1 · December 1999

Vince- I did have some guy helping, (not my neighbor)but he was not familiar with truck campers. I'm sure my wife & I can do it.. It's just a matter of being persistent & determined. I am both. By the way Vince, refresh my feeble mind, & give me the low down on your camper. Size, wt.,model, etc.. I may just down size from a 10'6" to a 9'6". Not too sure yet. Probably change my mind once I get it loaded for the first time. Oh, do you have any thoughts on mud flaps for the truck. The one's that Chevy offer in the brochure without the bow tie logo are rather low profile. Vince, do you know of a way to scan a picture of my truck onto my chat page. I have the picture, but just haven't figured out how to load it to my chat.

Gary-

mcollins2 · December 1999

I bought a Delco 78A 84month (78-7yr) today. It fits in the tray but the top bracket won't fit! You should check the clearance on your battery tray. I may make a bracket to replace the one I removed.
Mike

mcollins2 · December 1999

Vince I finally have the weights on my 2000 Silverado HD 2500 SB extcab 4X4 and my 2000 Lance 820 camper.

Truck only: Front 3460, Rear 2340, Total 5800
Both: Front 3520, Rear 5430, Total 8950
Oh well, didn't make GVWR (8600) but OK on Front (4410) and Rear (6000).

Weights included hitch, camper tiedowns, airlifts, 3/8 tank fuel/water, full LPG, wiring, extra radio, carpet and rubber bedliners, one person.

Guess I have to keep my king of overload title?
Mike

tganley · December 1999

You get my vote.

vince4 · December 1999

I've been out of town for the holidays, living in my camper at my sister's and mom's houses. What a nice way to visit. Tomorrow I'm off again to Pismo Beach to spend New Year's eve on the beach. That is a drive-on beach down south, have you ever been?

My camper is a Squire 4000 9.4 which is basically a 9 1/2 foot version. It weighs about 2300 lbs. The longer units are nice because more room is always good but I prefer this compromise between exterior and interior size. Mine also has a pop out rear section for the bathroom on the driver's side. It's no problem, there is still plenty of room for loading. Since the other side is straight all the way I just look at the driver's side when backing the last 50% and know the other side has lots of room.

I don't think the factory mud flaps work with the flares we have. For the photo, the only way I know is to put it on a personal web page. Your ISP likely offers free web space and it's pretty easy to set up. If you want to e-mail me your pictures I can post them on my page for all to see.

vince4 · December 1999

No No, say it ain't so. After all the hassle it doesn't fit!!? I was suspicious about the height, it really didn't look like it would fit but I figured I must be wrong since it's a factory option. What do you think is going on? Are we doing something wrong? Maybe that upper bracket needs to be replaced too, or maybe the factory leaves it off. I wish I could look at a truck that came with this option. There was a guy on-line who ordered it on a GMC, I'll try to find his posts and send an e-mail. How about you go whine to the parts manager who sold you the parts. Maybe he/she could shed some light.

vince4 · December 1999

Well Mike, I don't know. I think the guy with a Lance on a 1/2 ton Dodge beats you (1k over) but since he isn't around anymore you can hold the crown. Actually you aren't bad at all from a GVWR standpoint but I think you blew away the glove box sticker number. Thanks for the front/rear numbers, I was wondering about the front tire pressure with the camper. It just doesn't seem right to run only 50 psi with such a heavy load so I raised mine to 60 psi. I tried 70 but it was too rough. I see from your numbers that the front load is really not increased much with the camper. Maybe I'll go back to 50 psi.

vince4 · December 1999

I finally put the camper on my new truck and took it on a 450 mile trip. It was great, what an improvement over my last truck (Ford 5.0L). I now have plenty of power and get the same gas mileage. I was able to pass someone going up a steep hill with a short passing lane. Accelerating from 55 to 70 going up hill! Wow, my old truck could barely hold 45 on the same hill. I also held 60 mph in 3rd gear going up the Sunol grade (you locals know what I mean) without pushing it very hard. The old truck was 40 mph max.

I got 9.6 mpg with mostly freeway at about 70 mph. I bet it would go up by 1 mpg at 55 mph, not that I'll ever find out.

The air bags need 75 psi to get it back to unloaded height. It looks kind of stupid like that though because the rear is so high. I lowered it closer to level in the daytime but ran it up to 75 at night so the lights would be aimed correctly. The on-board compressor is quite handy. I also let all the air out once to help level when parked.

The stock non-firm ride shocks are about maxed out with this load. It's okay but it is a little floaty and I feel bumps in the steering wheel more than when unloaded. Better shocks are in my future but not for awhile. I really don't want to make the unloaded ride worse. The side-to-side sway is not bad. It isn't even noticeable if you drive gently without sharp movements. I suppose better shocks would help this too.

So that's my report if anyone is interested.

mcollins2 · December 1999

Hey Vince - Sounds like your trip report matches mine. 550 miles trip to Pine Island, Sanibel and Captiva Island FL. Excellent power and acceleration. Sunshine Skyway bridge is usually trouble for my old truck and the Silv 2500 really ate the thing up! No trouble holding 60-65 mph.

Averaged 9.8 mpg doing 70 on freeway and a lot of 5 mph backcountry sightseeing.

Had 60psi in front and 80psi in rear tires. May go to 50 or 55 in front also. Had 75 psi in the AirLifts. Didn't adjust any air pressures this trip ( no compressor ). Side sway isn't bad at all without a stabilizer bar. Would like better shocks though. I have the firm ride shocks on mine but think adjustable shocks would help some.

Handling with the Lance 820 was very good. Really like the Torklift tie downs with the spring happi jack turnbuckles on all four. Tried all the equipment. Used the refrig on DC, AC, and LPG at different times. Fired up the generator to run the AC and microwave for lunch at Captiva Beach; really works great! At most campsites I just lowered the rear elec Jacks to stabilize the rig when jumping around!

My dog loved the trip. Just say "lets go camping" and she's ready to go! Next trip to Oscar Scherer State Park in Osprey FL this Sunday for a few days.

Mike2

mcollins2 · December 1999

Vince - I put the Delco battery in without the bracket for now. Haven't noticed any movement between the two tiepoints but would like to replace with something. Probably would help control damage with light contact in the pass front panel. Oh well for now I better not hit anyone!

Anyone out there with a second battery factory installation (Silverado) that can help us? Maybe there is some other "special" bracket used in place of the original one.

Mike2

tganley · December 1999

Mike2,

I have a factory installed second battery in my GMC 2500 EC 4X4. How can I help?

mcollins2 · December 1999

Thanks for the quick response. Vince and I have installed the bottom battery tray and wiring - no problems there. Does your second battery have a bracket over the top of the battery (should be running at a diagonal)? We removed the original bracket and when putting in the Delco 78-7yr battery the height interfers with the bracket near the passenger front quarter panel. If you could look at your truck I (and Vince) would appreciate knowing what you find. If you have a bracket there does it have bends in it to go over the battery? If so, is there a GM part no. stamped on it? Thanks a bunch and happy new year to you and all.
Mike2

tganley · January 2000

Should be: "The battery has a flange about 1/2 INCH from the bottom..."

Happy '00

vince4 · January 2000

Thanks for the info but you misunderstood the question. The problem relates to clearance for the battery height, not the hold down. The bracket Mike is talking about is part of the truck structure, not part of the battery option. Look on the driver side of the engine bay, there is an identical bracket (actually it's a structural stiffener) going from the fire wall to the fender near the corner where the two meet. It's black, about 11" long, slightly curved, and mounted up high with 2 bolts on each end.

The truck comes with a bracket on each side. The tray for the aux battery sits directly under the bracket on the passenger side and so the available height for the aux battery is limited to about 7 1/2 inches. What we are wondering is how the factory deals with this. Do they remove the bracket, use a different one, or use a shorter battery? If you could compare the brackets on each side of the truck you can tell if they have used a special one on the aux battery side. If so it would need to bend up very near the 2 big bolts holding it to the fender.

Thanks for your help, you are our best and only hope for the answer because the dealers can't handle such detailed questions. One more item, you listed the battery as a 78-6yr and Mike said 78-7yr, is this a typo? Or maybe the answer?

mledtje · January 2000

Oroville is a little detour, but you can't choose where your in-laws live. Then down 70/99 and up 50/89 to 395. Spend the night in Bishop at a little trailer park right behind the Sheepherder's Bakery (OK it is Eric Shatf's Bakery). Get some fresh bread in the morning.

And off to Death Valley. We had great weather - 70's in the daytime, 40's at night, 20's in the higher elevations.

We went in through the south. Through Ballarat and Indian Ranch Road (some interesting canyons to explore here), and in through Wildrose Canyon. Drove up to Aguerebery Point to overlook the Valley. Then down to Furnace Creek and find a nice campsite at Texas Springs. Beautiful, clear nights - you can easily see the Milky Way.

Next morning we went down the Westside Road and up in to Hanaupah Canyon. 9 miles of 4wd trail and it takes about 1 1/2 hours to get to the end. And our truck is the wider than most vehicles to pass this way, so we get to push the brush back on both sides at the same time.

Back on the Westside Road, we get a flat! Changing a flat on a dirt road is a new experience. Take the tire and $15 to the station in Furnace Creek for repairs. Back to Texas Springs for another beautiful night.

Next day we drove/hiked to the back of Golden Canyon. And then off to Racetrack. 27 miles of 4wd trail takes about 2 1/2 hours to get out there. It is a large, dry lake bed at about 3500-4000' elevation. At one end there are many large rocks up to 2'x2'x2' on the lake bed. And behind these rocks are trails where the rock has moved across the lakebed. Some trails are 2-300' long. One theory says the rocks move when it rains and the lakebed turns to mud and the wind blows 80+ mph. But, no one has every seen it happen.

It was getting late in the afternoon, so we found a spot and set up camp for the evening. After 5pm we did not see or hear anything moving. No cars, no critters, nothing! Very quiet. And very dark. The stars were brilliant!! We thought they were bright in Death Valley, up here was more so! When we woke up the next morning it was 34 in the camper (thank heaven for down). Probably 26-28 outside. Turned on the heater and got up 5 minutes later. 2 1/2 hours back to paved road and 8-9 hours more back home.

We could have used another 2 weeks, too much to see and do.

I'd say it's good to be back, but I am at work.

I'm only 5 numbers away from retirement (I got one).

Mike L

vince4 · January 2000

Thanks for the nice report Mike. I'll look at a map to find those areas. No way I could take the beasty camper on those roads you traveled, I plan to drop it in the campground and just make day trips. Did you scratch the truck with that close brush? I have the predictable dilemma of owning a brand new 4wd--if I actually use it it won't look new for long. What was the problem with changing the tire? Did the jack sink into the ground?

vince4 · January 2000

OK now we are getting there. The answer is that state-of-the-art million dollar computer simulation indicated the need for the upper support. But oops, it gets in the way of an obscure option not finished until the last minute - so just remove it. I don't understand this type of thinking. They should have just reformed the bracket to allow for the battery.

I don't believe any of the battery parts offer additional support over the base version. I (we) have the dubious advantage of intimate knowledge of both configurations. The battery tray you refer to is actually a replacement bracket for a smaller one in the base version. It uses the same mounting screws so doesn't provide any additional strength over the base bracket. The 3 screws you see going into the quarter panel fix a small L bracket used to support the end of the battery, or base, big bracket and to provide the stud for the coolant tank tab. Because the battery tray bracket doesn't mount directly to the quarter panel I don't believe it offers much to replace the loss of the upper bracket. I think I've pretty well beat this topic senseless but just to be sure I'll e-mail you a picture from the GM parts computer so you can have an idea of what's down there.

I do have one more question. Where does the battery negative cable attach to ground? From a different GM picture it appears to go somewhere on the engine. Mike2 where did you ground yours?

Thanks for all your help. I tried the parts manager with other aux battery questions and he had to call GM and still couldn't get a straight answer. I didn't have the courage to go back with this one.

vince4 · January 2000

What do you think about the bracket deal? I guess you'll just leave it off. Do you know what the 78-6yr battery is? Is the 6yr simply 6 years?

mledtje · January 2000

No serious scratches. I think they will wax out. I don't know about the ones in the flares though.

AAA has a nice Death Valley map. I bought another map at the map store on Washington St in Santa Clara. Gotta have good maps.

Changing the tire was not a big problem, just dirty. You have to lay on the ground to get the spare in or out. I had to lay on the ground to locate the jack under the axle. The jack is not happy with dirt/dust/sand in it. (I still don't know how you will get your spare out with your camper on the truck)

Yes the truck gets scratches if you use it. But that is better than having 4x4 cause it looks cool. Trucks are meant to be used and to get scratched. It is still traumatic when it happens.

You can probably get out to these places faster than we did. We averaged 10 mph and everyone else seemed to average about 30+ mph. Of course, 2 of 6 SUV's that passed us had flats by the time they got to Racetrack. And our flat happened on a smooth stretch of the Westside Rd. when we were going 35 mph. It seems the front tire kicks up a rock and the rear hits it just right (wrong?) to get a puncture. I wouldn't mind leaving the camper behind and day tripping, but it does limit you a little. We were able to stop and camp where ever we were. If the camper were back at Texas Springs then we would have to head back there. But it would be nice to leave the weight when putting around. All the dirt areas in Death Valley are dangerous in rainy weather. Flash floods and washouts are common, even if the sun is shining where you are, the water floods down from the hills.

Vince, have you been in Death Valley before? I've been about 10 times. Still much to be seen and checked out. November to April seems to be the right time to go, but even in the middle of summer it is enjoyable.

Mike L

tganley · January 2000

The cable is bolted to the engine, on top, in back, almost to the transmission housing.

You may be right that GM just 86'd the brackett because it was in the way. Some serious thought and work went into the new design, but production types don't always consult the design team before they make modifications.

Tom

vince4 · January 2000

Yes I've been once but didn't do any off-road exploration. I had no idea there was enough there to warrant so many visits. I guess I need to look closer. Do you always pick an off-road destination? I assume so since the normal highlights on the park service brochure can be seen in one visit.

You say the middle of summer is enjoyable??? I actually like heat but draw the line at 120 degrees so I'll wait for winter.

vince4 · January 2000

Thanks for the response, I'll look for the spot.

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