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Cabover Camper Chat
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California Camping
by Tom Stienstra
It is a very complete, concise resource. I think once or twice in 10 years I found a campground not included. He gives info on facilities, directions (usually good), cost (usually wrong), open periods, and contact phone numbers. He also describes the general area briefly.
You can find it at amazon.com, camping stores, and book stores.
When mounting the fronts you have to drill the hole for the support arm length. I marked the hole with the support arm out as far as I could (for more strength, but still inside the truck exterior) and left about 3/4-1" clearance for the horizontal arm to truck exterior.
I clamped the rear mount to the hitch side plates and marked for the same 3/4-1" clearance. Then drilled the 3 holes on each side. The rears don't have the 45 degree support arms but are still very strong.
I use the Happijac turnbuckle springs on all four mounts. I have the CA-TBS springs with the TBH-24 long threaded Hooks. The rears are perfect length. The fronts required 3-4 links of chain (supplied with the Tork lift mounts) to make the required length.
Had one problem; one of the front mounts was only tack welded. I had it welded locally. Apparently the quality checks at Tork Lift aren't that great. Check yours before mounting. Mine all looked fine a first glace; all painted.
Good luck,
Mike2
I had planned to hook up the motor home to electric when we left it for a few days, but that was not feasible and the Park Service had just prohibited the use of generators while unoccupied RVs were left in the lot because one had just burned up. With reservations on the snow cat and a rushed departure there was no time for a pipe drain or a trip to get antifreeze. We turned on the furnace and locked the door.
Four days later when we returned the aux battery for the furnace was long gone and everything in the RV was frozen solid. We got the engine started, then the generator, and microwaved the frozen oranges and potatoes so we could have something to eat. All the plastic pipe was frozen and the water tank under the bed was a one huge chunk of ice. I hadn't even left the water heater going while we were skiing and it was frozen, too. With the furnace and vehicle heater going it took forever to get the interior comfortable.
We left cabinet doors open, fearing the worst, but one by one the pipes thawed out without leaking. The water heater didn't even leak. We were left with that huge ice cube in the water tank. My daughter rigged a tube of rolled up magazines and duct tape that she ran from the furnace grate to the door under the bed and after a night of the hot air blast, it thawed too. No leaks anywhere. Took it back to the rental place with no comments. Now if I had owned it, there would have been 50 gallons of water soaking everything.
More than likely, the reason it took so long to warm up the camper was that propane doesn't like to be cold for extended periods. My camper had been sitting in temps of -25 to -38 degrees for 48 hours once. The heater worked, but my propane generator would not crank. After letting the heat run on the battery for about six hours, the interior temp was still only about 55, but the propane was obviously warming up. My Bigfoot camper is rated to -40 and the heater is a 25,000 BTU, so even though it was -25 or so outside, it wasn't the insulation or heater. It was simply cold propane. I've heard of people wrapping their propane tanks when they don't plan to keep their heaters running for 24+ hours, but want to get immediate heat when they return.
John
Mike2
This campground is 'closed' from 9-30 on. However, we stayed there in early October and it was not gated. The campgrounds near Hume Lake were locked but not these little ones. My fallback is Azalea campground near Grant Grove, it is supposed to be open all year, and it is not too bad. Both are near 6500' feet and should have snow after this last weekend.
Certainly you can camp with us. It is always nice to have company, help if you get stuck or break down. But, we are not the best of traveling companions. We travel the speed limit, stop early for meals, etc. We don't travel after dark unless absolutely neccesary. A late morning start is 7 am for us. We are usually asleep by 8:30 and up by 5 (sometimes on weekends we sleep in until 6). I know from your posting times that you are more of a nightowl. If you still want to camp, bs, hike, etc. with us, we would like to have you join us.
If you want to leave early (Fri) and meet somewhere, let me know.
I ordered Tom's campground guide from REI. I should have it this week. Thanks for the suggestion.
Mike
I'll e-mail you about the trip, no need to clutter the public board.
Did you get your battery yet. Wondering about the clearance on the posts. Or are you cutting them off. I was worried about that. I've had good performance with the Delco. Hope I don't have to replace it too often.
Mike2
Gary-
I haven't bought the battery yet. If you've been reading the posts you know I think the Optima deep cycle will fit with the bracket in place. It's also a superior battery but rather expensive. The best I've found on the web is $169 including shipping. List is $170 I think. I thought I should call a few local places first before ordering on the web. I'll let you know how it fits.
I usually just go see the sites with the camper on. It's a little cumbersome but not a real problem. You have to get it road worthy every day which is a bit of a hassle but the trade-off is that you have your home wherever you go. That's handy when you want to change clothes, make lunch, take a nap etc. Since I have a dog it is also a place I can leave her when I go places she can't. Sometimes I drop it in camp if I want the truck empty but not often. Probably the only reason would be to go off-road.
Get out and use it whenever possible to give it a fair chance before you decide to sell.
Gary-
I have found that it is usually convenient to see the sites with the camper on. In the past, we would leave camp and head to the fishing spot or the clam digging area. The need to eat often dictated when we headed back to camp or it necessitated packing food to bring with us. With the camper on the truck, we had our kitchen with us, not to mention our bathroom.
Slide-ins definitely aren't for everyone. If you don't anticipate eventually having toys to tow behind (snowmachines, boats, 4 wheelers), conventional or fifth wheels are often the better choice. You definitely have more room since your living space doesn't have to fit in the bed of the truck. A small conventional or fiver can usually get into many of the same places a hard side pickup camper can.
You're not going to do too much serious off-roading with a hardside camper on. The height and weight issues will be limitations. When my camper is on, my height clearance is around 11.5 feet. I'm scraping some branches getting into my tighter, off-the-beaten path camping places. I just drive slow and check for tree sap once I'm stopped. If you're going to be doing any serious off-roading, I think the pop-up slide-in would be very hard to beat.
The loading and unloading gets easier also as you get more experience. I load and unload by myself, often loading after work and unloading on a lunch hour the day after I return from a trip. I've got it down to about 45 minutes to load and 35 to unload. When loading, I'm usually backing up a few inches, hopping out to look, jumping back in, turning the wheel a little, backing up a few inches and repeating the process. It's not unusual for me to have to pull all the way out and make another run at it, but like I said, the entire process usually is finished in 45 minutes or less.
Gary-
The Hellwig bar could stand a design modification to make it less stupid but it does fit with a little effort. I don't know if they have fixed it by this time. I did complain and they seemed interested. If you care you could call Robert and ask, I can give you his number. If you intended on keeping the camper you really should install someone's stabilizer bar. Take the truck to a suspension shop and let them suggest something.
I noticed you are running 65 psi in the rear tires with the camper on. That's under inflated with such a load, you should run 80 psi for sure. It's always better to be high than low. I bumped the fronts up to 60 just for general principals but it does make the bumps sharper. Based on the weight measurements Mike2 made I think leaving the front at 50 is fine. He measured front and rear axle weights with and without the camper. The front weight only went up a few hundred pounds. Anyway GM specs 50 and that must be for a full load.
The air bags take 75 psi to bring the truck back to no-load height, which has the back end sticking up a bit. I try to drive with about 55 in the day so the truck is level and bump it up to 75 at night so the lights shine on the road. It's easy since I have the on-board compressor.
On the loading issue, I usually get the truck backed up on the first try and almost never need to get out until it's all the way back. I'm not saying that to brag, rather to give you some hope for the future. My camper is an easy fit with all the wide stuff on only the driver's side which really helps. Maybe your camper is different since it's a few years older. I have pictures of mine now which I'll post shortly.
Brutus, e-mail me a picture of your rig when you get one and I'll put it on my web page.
These batteries are expensive but use a superior construction technique. The best price I found on-line was $169 delivered. I called two local battery shops, the first one quoted $169 and the second $140. Guess where I bought it.
It fit fine and the GM side terminal cables worked great.
shocks you mentioned. Something that might help with your loading problems also might be electric camper jacks, if you don't already have them. I hear they are real nice you just push a button to raise or lower your camper, you can raise or lower the whole thing at one time, or just the front or back, or each corner from a remote control. I have the hydraulic type now but I hope to get the electric type latter on.
What ever you do give your camper a chance, I bet you will love it after a little while.
John
Gary-
I see mirrors on a lot of the Trailer Life test vehicles that appear to have a brace that runs from the mirror to the bottom of the door. My guess is that it is a stability issue. I've heard of some after market mirrors that vibrate too much and become ineffective.
I opted not to replace shocks right away either. My plan is to run this year with the existing shocks and then get some Rancho 9000 shocks next Spring (2001). My truck has about 27,000 miles on it right now, so I should be over 40,000 by then. I figure I will feel that I got enough use out of the stock shocks. I'm still thinking about airbags for this year, as long as I am confident they will be effective with duallys.
I've seen the Alaskan Campers. They are pricey, and the certainly don't have all of the amenities of the hard sides. Still, if you head off the beaten path, they are hard to beat. I'm pretty sure the website is www.alaskancampers.com.
I think I can get to the spare tire with the camper on but I haven't tried it. My camper is 9.5' so it sticks out some but it doesn't drop down, it's flat from front to rear. This means the winch hole in the bumper is accessible, the only question is if the rod has to come in at an angle. Don't rely on the factory jack, it may not be able to handle the weight. Go out and buy a bottle jack, at least 4 tons. They sell for $20 or so, are small, and come in a nice plastic case that fits in the cab just fine. Well, in a regular cab anyway, I don't know what storage you have in the extended cab. You wouldn't believe what I have behind the seat in my truck: 2 tool boxes, bottle jack, compressor, ropes, big tarp, jumper cables, tool bag, spare hose, rain coat etc. Only things I'm missing are some basic spare parts. You can see I'm used to driving old trucks.
If anyone wants to e-mail me a picture(s) I'll be happy to post them. Maybe we could start something here. I'm going to work on my new pics right now.
http://members.home.net/vofm/camper1.jpg
http://members.home.net/vofm/camper2.jpg
http://members.home.net/vofm/camper3.jpg
http://members.home.net/vofm/camper4.jpg
Send me yours! (Snap shots by snail mail accepted too!).
Sorry to hear you had a trial loading your camper. I put mine back on this weekend. Took about 30 minutes to get properly lined up and under the camper. Of course, I wanted it loaded slightly to the passenger side so a couple of times I was trying to move the truck 1/2" or so. The tape idea that Vince and I talked about was helpfull.
What we talked about was a line of tape down the center of the camper, and a matching line down the middle of the bed of the truck. While backing up slowly, sight down the middle of the truck tape and line up with the camper tape. Then stop every foot or so, get out and walk around and check.
I thought my pop-up camper felt top heavy, and added heavy duty shocks (Bilsteins) and a sway bar (Hellwig - not recommended). Now it is not too bad. My 1/2 ton truck is right at the max GVWR and I run 45 psi in the tires and 50/40 in the Air Lifts (the drivers side is heavier and has more air).
My dad ran a big camper for years, but finally gave up and bought a 5th wheel. Later he traded that for a tag-a-long trailer which he says is the best choice. He didn't like the cramped bedroom in the 5th wheel. But then he is 77, but he still loads up his camper and goes out 20 times a year. I hope I hold up that well.
Yes, I have looked at the 4 Wheel Camper in Woodland. Go up and check them out yourself. I think they are one of the best made units out there. In retrospect, I probably should have gotten one, but the extra $2000+ was out of the question at the time. They are basic campers and will not be available with a water heater, shower or toilet (only porta-pottie). Our Phoenix was available with hot water and the outside shower for extended stays. I'm not unhappy with my camper now that the bags have been worked out, I just thing the 4 Wheel unit is better.
MikeL
Sorry to hear you had a trial loading your camper. I put mine back on this weekend. Took about 30 minutes to get properly lined up and under the camper. Of course, I wanted it loaded slightly to the passenger side so a couple of times I was trying to move the truck 1/2" or so. The tape idea that Vince and I talked about was helpfull.
What we talked about was a line of tape down the center of the camper, and a matching line down the middle of the bed of the truck. While backing up slowly, sight down the middle of the truck tape and line up with the camper tape. Then stop every foot or so, get out and walk around and check.
I thought my pop-up camper felt top heavy, and added heavy duty shocks (Bilsteins) and a sway bar (Hellwig - not recommended). Now it is not too bad. My 1/2 ton truck is right at the max GVWR and I run 45 psi in the tires and 50/40 in the Air Lifts (the drivers side is heavier and has more air).
My dad ran a big camper for years, but finally gave up and bought a 5th wheel. Later he traded that for a tag-a-long trailer which he says is the best choice. He didn't like the cramped bedroom in the 5th wheel. But then he is 77, but he still loads up his camper and goes out 20 times a year. I hope I hold up that well.
Yes, I have looked at the 4 Wheel Camper in Woodland. Go up and check them out yourself. I think they are one of the best made units out there. In retrospect, I probably should have gotten one, but the extra $2000+ was out of the question at the time. They are basic campers and will not be available with a water heater, shower or toilet (only porta-pottie). Our Phoenix was available with hot water and the outside shower for extended stays. I'm not unhappy with my camper now that the bags have been worked out, I just thing the 4 Wheel unit is better.
MikeL
When I dewinterize, I put a little bleach in the fresh water tank and fill the tank about 1/3 to 1/2 full and let it slosh around for a day or two while I'm driving before I fill it up for the first camping trip of the season.
Thanks Brutus for the info.. Don't see to many Alaskans down in this neck of the woods.. I have seen a couple though.
If you want standing room in the sleeping area, then a tag along is the way to go. Hope I can still be camping at his age. That's great!
See you all later. Still trying to locate a good set of trailering mirrors.
Gary-
The GM "camper" mirrors are okay except they don't work well with campers. The passenger side is about flush with the camper side when fully extended. It's good enough because I stuck on a big wide-angle so I can see beside me but it would be much better if they made them to go out another 2 inches. The other problem with these mirrors in general is they slant up so you can't see the road in the far end of the mirror, just where you need it. I almost exclusively use the wide angle stick on for the right side. If I can ever buy a wide angle stick on that covers the entire mirror I will (passenger side camper mirror is flat). They sell these for the old style power mirrors. Then it would be like the factory power mirror.
Do you know if Mike posted any photos of his rig? Your truck & camper look really sharp Vince.
My dog's name is Dusty. She's a 13 year old Chocolate Lab and she loves the camper. She's quite happy to spend hours just snoozing away when I'm off doing stuff. I have a foam cuddle bed that fits between the sink and fridge. After it gets dark she begs to go inside and go to bed for the night. She also rides back there when I'm driving. She preferred my old camper because she could lay up on the step and stick her head out the front window for hours on end. No way with the little step in a Lance. She has never liked the ocean much but she loves the beach because there are all sorts of disgusting things to eat. She is more a lake/creek dog.
You see what happens when you get me started on dogs! It's worse than trucks.
I tried my camper on for the first time yesterday, and took it for a short ride, I love that PSD and it felt great with the duals.(both a first for me)I was disappointed with the mirrors, even with the telescoping feature it was hard to see out of the passenger side, not [non-permissible content removed] good as I had thought they would be.
John
Last year for Christmas I got my wife a digital camera. She has used it twice. This weekend I will dust it off and take some pictures (weather permitting) of the truck and camper. Don't expect nice scenery like in Vince's photos.
My truck looks similar to Vince's truck, Charcoal Metallic, Std Cab, Longbed but with black fender flares and a much smaller camper.
Unlike Vince, I am very happy with the camper mirrors on my truck. They extend out far enough to see down the side of the camper (80" wide) on both sides. I do wish they had a convex section on the passenger side where it is needed.
Mike L
As far as visibility, I guess I never expected to see directly behind me with the camper on. I use the passenger mirror to see what is in the lane next to me. I've always backed my trucks into parking spaces and other areas where I want to insure easy egress, so I'm pretty comfortable backing up, even with the camper on.
Still, if it's questionable at all when I'm backing up, I jump out and take a good look behind me to make sure I know what's back there. Like Grizzly mentioned, fixing damaged campers is not cheap. It's certainly worth a few extra minutes of my time....and, if necessary, someone else's time that may be momentarily delayed while I take a quick look.
When I picked up my camper last January, they had another Bigfoot camper in the shop that they were doing some pretty serious fiberglass repair on the upper right hand corner of the cabover area. I think it was a $2,000-$3,000 job. They said the guy forgot he had the camper on and only remember.......after his failed attempt to pull into the garage. Ouch! See, there is hope of getting use to the top heavy effect of the campers.
One day while cruising at about 60mph we were passed by a car and a very worried looking passenger pointed to the rear of our truck. I stopped, and you guessed it, the steps had been dragging for about 5 miles! How could we be so dumb? We had stopped to look over the rapid called Lunch Counter on the Snake River and had used the steps to get food from the camper so we could eat it near the river. Forgot to put the steps inside and just drove off after lunch. Thank God they stayed on and hadn't flipped off into another vehicle.
The aluminum cross piece at the bottom of the scissors was completely worn away on one corner but was easily grafted with another piece of stock aluminum.
Since then whenever we remove the bungee and steps we place the bungee on the driver's seat. That way we are forced to remember the steps are down before we drive off.
For those of you who winterize, I had a friend who forgot to bypass his water heater before he added the antifreeze. He finally caught on that he was filling the hot water tank with anti-freeze on about the fourth gallon and still no antifreeze was showing up in the water spigots.
http://www.fourwheelcampers.com/
They have a pretty informative site. But, they do not do specials.
On the other hand, Phoenix will build whatever you want. It is more weight (800 lbs vs. 1200 lbs), but less money, and more time to fix the things that are made poorly.
http://phoenixcampers.com/index.html
Our Phoenix has worked well for us. We have about 20,000 miles on the camper, having slept in temps as low as 20 degrees and as high as 85 degrees. It has kept rain and snow and bugs out. The options all work, etc.
Phoenix will build a unit with a toilet and shower. You can get things done that are not listed on the website - just ask.
We saved by not having to pay CA sales tax or an installation fee as on the 4 Wheel model. The only downsides were - not being able to visit the factory prior to ordering, having to pickup the camper in Colorado, having to spend 2-3 weekends mosquito proofing the camper.
I guess if you wanted to consider the Phoenix, you could come down and check out ours and I could show you what I had for problems and solutions.
Good Luck,
Mike L
Gary-
Gary-
The Seward Hwy to the south had five avalanches on Monday and numerous ones since. It has been closed just south of town all week. Three other hwys (Dalton, Richardson, Old Glenn) also had intermittent closures on Monday because of avalanches.
DOT had to pull their workers off the Seward Hwy a few times for fear of more avalanches. On Tuesday, a railroad employee operating a grader to clear one of the avalanches got caught in one himself and didn't survive. They got him out quick, so he didn't suffocate or freeze which is the usual culprit when people die in avalanches. He had a crushed pelvis and internal injuries. When snow can crush a grader cage and do that kind of damage, it just shows the devasting power of an avalanche.
The weather has been wierd this winter. I prefer mid 20s for highs in the winter. We've had it pretty mild most of the winter. This is more like our weather at the end of March. Last year at this time, it was below zero. I'm not sure I would trade for that, but I fear this is only a Spring tease. Winter is not over just yet.
before the real spring gets here.
John
I see someone might be interested in the Four Wheel campers. I have own mine for 2 years so if you got any questions just ask away. In general I am happy with it. When I bought it I felt it was one of the better popup campers made, and from what I saw at the last RV show I think it still is. It does have some limits, so if you are into RV type camping it might not be right for you.
Joe
Gary-
On the other hand a nice hardside is like a scaled down RV. You have a small version of everything the big units have.
With a nice modern truck it's not a big deal to haul around the heavy camper. The differentiating factor is off-road capability. If you think you'll want to go beyond dirt roads then the choice is clear. Or maybe you only want basic facilities. However short of that the big campers really provide a lot for the additional load.
I just felt like sharing my thoughts to stir up the conversation a bit. Feel free to throw out other opinions.