Cabover Camper Chat

mledtje · February 2000

Vince,

I believe the two Phoenix campers with toilets have waste water storage. How much, I don't know. You would have to call and ask them.

Our camper is a 'Warrior' model. We had it made 4" narrower, and the front overhang is cut in half both vertically and lengthwise. On the website, the view of the warrior shows a couch to the rear of the bed. Our camper has the couch, but the bed pulls out and is over the couch. When the be is not in use we can push the bed forward into the overhang and have unobstructed use of the couch. It works for us, we full use of the living space, full size bed, and only 1/2 the overhang. We actually had them duplicate the dimensions of the 4Wheel Camper.

We have had some mildew in the camper flexible sides. None during the summer/fall, but now that winter is here we have it. I will just keep cleaning it regularly with a mild bleach solution.

I have taken some pictures of our truck. When I go home I will download them, then email to myself here at work. Then I will see if I can figure out how to add them into a posting. If not, I will take you up on your offer to put them on you website Vince.

I'll be back on Monday.

Mike

Brutus · February 2000

There is a guy on the Happy Campers website who has his own website that includes quite a few pictures of trucks and campers. Most of the campers are Bigfoot and Lance. There is one set up that looks very similar to mine. The website is:

www.duedall.fit.edu/bbff/

Click on Picture Gallery and then Click on Trucks & Slide-in Campers. The one that looks close to mine belongs to Brian Aut. My truck is black, not grey, and it is a V-10, not a PSD. My camper has green trim instead of maroon and it's a 99 model. Overall though, it looks pretty close. Same size and model of truck and camper.

vince4 · February 2000

Well Brutus, not quite the pictures you've
promised but getting closer!

I thought about sending one of my pics to that guy but I'm not sure Chevys are allowed! I'd certainly be outnumbered by all the Fords.

grizzly1 · February 2000

Vince, I think your right.. no Chevy's allowed- better start our own Chevy page.

stabbur · February 2000

Thanks grizzlyl for the avalanche description. Glad that you are still around. I've been reading about those packs that contain a breathing tube so that those who are buried and who can still get their mouths around a mouthpiece near their collar can maybe survive. It conducts the expired air around and discharges it over the wearer's back so that the "ice mask" around the face doesn't form. This is supposed to extend survival for those who are buried a bit. However, if a road grader smashing/snow cat busting avalanche occurs you won't need this pack!

We have the best powder snow skiing I have seen in New England in 10 years. No avalanches, great downhill and ski touring.

Those with interests in poptops might check out sunliteinc.com. The company has changed the design of their 10 foot pop top, putting the bath on the same side as the sink, I see, but otherwise it is like our 10 footer. After completing several week canoe trips during which we have lived in our tent we arrive back at our truck camper and it seems like a mansion - all the comforts of home. The sunlite is probably not as strong as the aluminum framed 4 wheel campers and we have encountered problems in keeping the plumbing connections to the blackwater tank tight. We hope that these problems have now been overcome - time and the next rough stretch of two track will tell.

stabbur · February 2000

Thanks grizzlyl for the avalanche description. Glad that you are still around. I've been reading about those packs that contain a breathing tube so that those who are buried and who can still get their mouths around a mouthpiece near their collar can maybe survive. It conducts the expired air around and discharges it over the wearer's back so that the "ice mask" around the face doesn't form. This is supposed to extend survival for those who are buried a bit. However, if a road grader smashing/snow cat busting avalanche occurs you won't need this pack!

We have the best powder snow skiing I have seen in New England in 10 years. No avalanches, great downhill and ski touring.

Those with interests in poptops might check out sunliteinc.com. The company has changed the design of their 10 foot pop top, putting the bath on the same side as the sink, I see, but otherwise it is like our 10 footer. After completing several week canoe trips during which we have lived in our tent we arrive back at our truck camper and it seems like a mansion - all the comforts of home. The sunlite is probably not as strong as the aluminum framed 4 wheel campers and we have encountered problems in keeping the plumbing connections to the blackwater tank tight. We hope that these problems have now been overcome - time and the next rough stretch of two track will tell.

vince4 · February 2000

I need to have the dinette cushions in my camper redone. I've been trying to think of a clever way to make them more comfortable but still be able to work as a bed. I would like to angle the back a little and would love some lumbar support. But if I did that then they wouldn't make a very flat bed. In my opinion this is an area where all camper manufacturers fail. If I designed campers the seating would be multi-purpose. Meaning it would be adjustable to fit the use. There's no reason it must be straight 90 degree construction with no-brainer flat pads like a Tundra rear seat. (slam!)

Has anyone ever done anything like this?

jraske · February 2000

When I bought my 00F350 I didn't think I would need the extra camper package besides the towing package, now that I have had my camper on I can see I was wrong.It doesen't sit to bad with just the camper, but I know that once I hook up my boat to the three foot hitch extension that back end will be too low.
What I need to know is, which is better air bags or helper springs? Also are after market helper springs about the same thing as what comes with the camper package, or are the factory springs better?
Thanks for any help
John

mledtje · February 2000

I have the pictures, but not the ability to attach them to a message here.

My wife said I can post them in her AOL and then put the address in a message. But, not tonight, we have to get our taxes done.

So maybe Wednesday we can get the pictures on AOL and Thursday I can post here.

Wish me luck,

Mike

Brutus · February 2000

The Ford camper package adds auxilliary rear springs, front stabilizer bar and rear stabilizer bar. If you got the trailer tow package, it appears you get the front stabilizer bar, so you're only short the rear bar and the auxilliary springs to get the equivalent of the camper package. Unfortunately, I can't tell you with certainty that the helper springs will be equal, but I'd feel pretty confident that they would be if you went with a reputable company.

The helper springs and rear stabilizer bar are going to get you more support for the load. However, they are not likely to totally resolve the rear end squat issue. The airbags should do that. The airbags will level you out and stiffen you up a little to eliminate some of the side to side movement. They should also improve safety since, by leveling the vehicle out, more of the weight is shifted to the front end, which is how the truck was meant to handle at it's peak efficiency. This should maximize handling and braking performance. My truck does not squat noticably, but I know I'm sitting a little back. That's why I'm considering airbags.

If you're running over GVWR or over the rear axle ratio, I definitely be looking at the springs and rear stabilizer bar. I don't think the air bags are substitute for those if you are over the max. I run over the max and feel the truck handles the load great, but I have the camper package, so I have the auxilliary springs and rear stabilizer bar. Like I said, I'm probably going to add air bags this year and replace the shocks with Rancho 9000 adjustables next year. I consider the airbags and shocks optional since I feel comfortable with the camper package. Still, I don't have any problems continuing to add things that will improve safety and performance. Just my $.02.

vince4 · February 2000

I have had both, overloads and air bags. By far the air bags are better. Two reasons: when the camper is off you have a factory ride, and when it's on you can adjust the ride height. Even with the variable rate Hellwig overload leaf springs (which are a good product) you pickup some stiffness. You have a tiny bit of adjustment in the U-bolts at the end of each leaf but nothing like the bags. Also with the air bags you can adjust side-to-side if your load isn't even. I had the Hellwig overloads on my last truck (F250) and living with them led me to buy air bags for my new truck. Now my headlights actually point at the road!

Second item is the rear stabilizer bar. It's a must. I suggest you buy the factory bar and mounts from the dealer. It's more expensive but it's done right once and you never have to think about it again. Otherwise Hellwig is probably a good source and certainly cheaper. I assume you have a front bar already, I think virtually all vehicles come with one.

Shocks are last. Some of us have upgraded and some are living with stock. Wait and see how it is for awhile before deciding. I'm leaning toward the Ranchos because of the adjustability. I don't want any stiffer unloaded ride. Otherwise Bilstein is probably best.

jraske · February 2000

I was thinking about the Hellwig helpers, but I like the idea about factory ride. That is what stopped me from taking the camper package in the first place, I figured the F350 ride would be stiff enough with out the overloads to make it stiffer, oh well live and learn. The sway didn't seem to bad but will probably go with a factory sway bar anyway. After all it's only money.
The shocks aren't a problem when they are worn out I'll probably replace them with the Rancho 9000.
Any recommendations for the air bags?
Thanks again.
John

vince4 · February 2000

There are only two brands I've seen on the market, Air Lift and Firestone (Hellwig sells rebranded Firestones). They look the same and are probably comparable in quality. I choose Air Lift for several reasons. Primarily because they have a better distribution network. They are sold at Camping World, Performance Products, and many others. Second they sell an on-board compressor kit which is half the price of Firestone's ($160 vs. $300+). It is lighter duty for sure but fine for this application. Of course you can mix brands but Air Lift doubles the bag warranty if you use their compressor because it has low pressure switches to keep at least 10 psi at all times. The primary cause of bag failure is under-inflation leading to a pinch. Our friend Gary learned that Lance sells a special version of Air Lift bags with a solid jounce bumper inside to handle this problem. Of course you don't need an on-board compressor, most people just use an external source. I wanted the adjustability for leveling in camp (not too much travel though) and general flexibility.

I took advantage of a 15% off sale at Performance Products to buy both. Then the price was not bad but they tend to have high prices otherwise. Also, don't consider anything but the heavy duty "5000lb" bags (which can lift 4000lbs by the way!). Here are some web sites.

http://www.airliftcompany.com/

http://www.firestoneindustrial.com/rvlt.htm

joe · February 2000

Hey Garry,
Sorry its taken me so long to get back to you about the camper. I wanted to keep the number of options down, but with the 4wheel camper just about everything is an option. I ordered the roof rack and jacks and I added my own battery. After talking to RVer it always seams like somthing is broken on their RVs and I didn't want to end up with that.
This thing just sits in the bed of the truck and there are 4 eye bolts that are bolted into the floor of the bed. No happy jacks here. I have an 99 F250SD to carry it. So I really don't have any kind of loading problems with the truck. The ride of the truck really didn't change too much.
If the Cal Expo is the show in Sac. Ca. they did go there a few years ago I don't know if they go every year. If your near Sac, Woodlawn is just a few miles (10-20) north on I5.
As for mold I haven't had any problem yet. This camper is very tight so when I use it I usally open the roof vent a little and open one of the access pannels (the ones that let you get to the mounting hardware). This lets air flow inside the camper. Also during the day I open up the window a little bit when I am driving around. Someone told me to use this stuff called 303 protectant on the vinyl, this should keep the mold away. I haven't tried it yet so I don't know if it really works.
I have used the camper several times, so far our biggest camping trip was up the Calif. coast to OR the we cut east to Crater Lake NP. We spent several days there then drove up to Bend OR. On the way back we stopped at Lava Beds NP. With our truck this was an easy trip.

Joe

djpstman · February 2000

Brutus,
Thanks for steering me to another info spot !!!

jraske,
I have the airlift bags on my 93 F250HD with a camper package and it made all the difference in the world. I didn't get them right away after buying my Lance 10'1 camper but after having them installed, I was so pleased. I got so much more road control. I didn't do the inside compressor but I am considering it for my 00 F350. I like the convenience of controlling the pressure from the cab. I will have to look into vince4's suggestion of Performance Products for online compressor. Just my $.03 worth !!!

jraske · February 2000

I am going to get the air bags, will check for prices over the weekend I think the whole set up with the compressor and gauges would be nice, but its to much money for me. Hopefully the air bags alone will do the job, and I won't need over loads too.
Have to wait and see.
john

pistolero · February 2000

I first heard about this idea elsewhere from some horse types, so I can't take any credit for the idea. I'm waiting for my Lance to be delivered, and am preparing my 2000 F350 for it. Some of you may know the factory says you need at least a 1/2" spacer in the bed. I got a slide-in liner and was going to put one of those $60-80 bed mats in to keep it from sliding around, until I found a cow mat at a local Mill's Fleet Farm. These things are 4'x6'x3/4" and are pure rubber with non skid draining surfaces. Completely waterproof and only $36.49. A great deal better and half the price of some bed mats. You could buy 2 for a long-bed and still be better off.

vince4 · February 2000

That's not a bad idea. I have a drop in liner as well and had planned on getting a bed mat for the camper. But the camper seems pretty stable on my new liner so now I'm not so sure. My old truck had a All Star drop in with the little ridges most liners have and the camper moved all over. I was constantly tightening the turnbuckles. My new liner is contoured like the truck bed and is less slippery anyway. The combination seems to work.

I'll admit, I never would have thought of a cow mat! Do you think they make them 8 feet long?

mledtje · February 2000

The only thing I don't like about waterproof mats is the fact that they don't breath. Any water under the mat will stay under the mat.

Any scratches or chips in the paint will allow rust to start and spread.

I have lifted up rubber mats and found moisture even after months of dry California summer.

Maybe a carpet, or one of the open mats made from cut up car tires would breath enough to allow that area to dry.

Vince, my camper sits directly on the bed with only a few paint blemishes after 20,000 rough miles. And I have not had to tighten my mounts. Maybe these new GM frames don't twist like older frames did?

Mike

pistolero · February 2000

For my use I'll be putting this mat down on top of a plastic slide-in, so water retention isnt going to hurt anything. When I un-load I'll pull it out and dry it off. 100% pure rubber doesn't retain water so it will dry easily. An added benefit to this installation will be increased insulation in the floor. For super-duty uses in particular this is a great option to get that height clearance.

vince4 · February 2000

I would just like to reduce the chance that the camper will move. A cheap thin mat would be fine with me. One with an open weave of some sort would be fine too. I'll stick with nothing for now and see how it goes. I haven't had the camper on too much yet.

mledtje · February 2000

My wife has been too busy to load my pictures into her AOL, so I am going to try to paste pictures into messages here.

I have .jpg photos, and I will paste one per message so I don't have a single huge message that bogs down your modem.

I hope the next message will be a picture.

Mike

mledtje · February 2000

Well, sorry. Cut and paste does not work.

Later,

Mike

vince4 · February 2000

Sorry Mike, if only it was so easy. You can imbed pictures if you know HTML. E-mail me some .jpg files and I'll put them on the web until you get them on your wife's site.

vince4 · February 2000

Has anyone added electric jacks to their camper? I'm curious about the cost and wiring method. I'd love to have them but find the $ hard to justify. How about weight, are they much heavier than the pump type?

djpstman · February 2000

Vince4,
I added electric jacks to my Lance two years ago. To me, it was well worth it. I had hydraulic jacks and one of them started to leak. I also found the hydraulics a little tricky to work with. The electrics are much easier and quicker. It cost me over $1000 to add them. It was cheaper as an option on the camper but I didn't do it at the time because I was trying to cut expenses. I did have my camper already wired for electric jacks (a Lance option) when I bought the camper so the process of wiring the jacks was basically simple. The holes on the attaching plate had to be drilled in order to attach the new jacks but that was about it. I had the dealer install them. I don't remember what they charged me for installation.

vince4 · February 2000

Thanks for the info. My Lance is pre electric jacks so no wiring but I could always add it somehow.

Tempting...

vince4 · February 2000

Well here are Mike's pictures, I'm playing host for a while.

http://members.home.net/vofm/FRONT.JPG
http://members.home.net/vofm/LDNHI.JPG
http://members.home.net/vofm/LRDN.JPG
http://members.home.net/vofm/LFDN.JPG
http://members.home.net/vofm/LFUP.JPG
http://members.home.net/vofm/LRUP.JPG
http://members.home.net/vofm/RFUPHI.JPG
http://members.home.net/vofm/RTUPHI.JPG
http://members.home.net/vofm/INSIDE.JPG
http://members.home.net/vofm/KITCHEN.JPG
http://members.home.net/vofm/SPOTMRR2.JPG

stabbur · February 2000

One photo is worth a thousand words. Thanks for letting us see the rig. Also I want to thank pistolero for the cow mat suggestion. I was just looking at some bed mat samples the new truck dealer had on his desk. I'm sure they were a lot more expensive and no better. My neighbor has about 120 cows in his freestall barn on these mats and they are rugged. Now all we need is to breed an 8 foot cow so that we can get a long bed size. If I go with two six footers I will have a cut-off piece available for someone else.

nasviking · February 2000

Just for anyone who has a slider on order for a 4 door Silverado. I confirmed yesterday the sliders will no longer be offered by Chevrolet. Wish I'd known that when I turned down an allocation with all my options, but the slider, was offered

vince4 · February 2000

That's amazing, pickups have had sliders for ages. Maybe this is on extended cab only? Also, the slider has never been available with the heated mirror/rear window defroster combo. So maybe no slider on an LT only?

If I didn't have a slider my dog wouldn't be happy. How else could she stick her head through for goodies?

djpstman · February 2000

Vince4,
I added electric jacks to my Lance two years ago. To me, it was well worth it. I had hydraulic jacks and one of them started to leak. I also found the hydraulics a little tricky to work with. The electrics are much easier and quicker. It cost me over $1000 to add them. It was cheaper as an option on the camper but I didn't do it at the time because I was trying to cut expenses. I did have my camper already wired for electric jacks (a Lance option) when I bought the camper so the process of wiring the jacks was basically simple. The holes on the attaching plate had to be drilled in order to attach the new jacks but that was about it. I had the dealer install them. I don't remember what they charged me for installation.

nasviking · February 2000

It amazed me also, my friends the manager at the dealership, it is his understanding they were stopped on 4 dr extended cabs for structural reasons. That is a big stretch in the Chevy's, which is why I like the Silverado. Maybe off-road 4 wheeling is a problem. I don't do that, so I'll put a slider in myself, so my chocolate lab can check on us.
By the way was that your truck pictures on the beach with the chocolate lab?

Brutus · February 2000

You can always get a slider installed by an auto glass company. When I bought my 92 F-250, it didn't have a rear slider, so I had one installed. The cost was less than $150. If you have a defroster in the window, I don't see that working. I can't really envision the need for a rear window defrost in a regular or super cab pickup. With the front defroster on, the rear window is cleared almost as fast as the front.

vince4 · February 2000

Yes that is my chocolate lab in the pictures. She has been traveling with me since she was a few months old, 13 years ago now. You couldn't ask for a better travel dog, no barking, patient and just loves to come along. She rides in the camper so the slider window is great.

http://members.home.net/vofm/chevy2.jpg
http://members.home.net/vofm/camper3.jpg

nasviking · February 2000

Thanks for the pictures. I tell ya we have just fallen in love with this lab. He's part human, but snores worse than I do. Can't wait to get him down to the bay, in Maryland, in the camper and on my pontoon boat. I'm sure he'll be chasing the crabs we catch across the boat!

igemmine · February 2000

Gentlemen,
Will be picking up our new lance 1130 soon, and was wondering which type of bed liner to buy so as to minimize the campers movement. Our local farm center had the regular "truck mat" which was approximately 4' x8' x 3/8" thick. Also they had what they called a wash mat that is used in dairy farming. This mat was a softer rubber and had a hole pattern (honey combed) that would allow for drainage, so as to help keep the bottom of the camper drier. Any suggestions as to which would be best? Thanks

oltroll1 · February 2000

I just got my first truck camper 3 wks. ago.Its a Sunlite Eagle SB. After much web surfing this it the brand I decided on.I live on the extreme eastern coast of North Carolina--Hatteras Island.I got information on 4
wheel a Phoenix but shipping made them too expensive.I have a ton of questions but will ask them over a period of time.Anyone else have this type of camper? Please e-mail any comments.

jraske · February 2000

Feel free to ask all the the questions you like, there are lots of helpful people here with a verity of experience that I am sure will be able to answer them.
I have a Lance Squire 8000 myself so I can't offer any help with your brand of camper.
John

vince4 · February 2000

What fun, a brand new Lance. You'll love it. Since you only mentioned bed mats, I assume you are not considering a drop-in or spray-on liner. I would choose based on how much the camper will be on the truck. I think the honeycomb is neat because it lets everything dry out but it seems weird for normal cargo use. So I'd pick the flat one if the camper is only on occasionally when you use it, and the honeycomb one if you leave the camper on the truck.

Either one would do the job just fine. It seems like most people just use a simple flat one.

vince4 · February 2000

Congratulations on your first camper! You'll soon find out how much freedom you have when you don't need to worry about how to stay dry, warm, and fed. If you've been reading the posts for awhile you know that some contributors have popups so fire away with the questions.

What type of truck do you have?

vince4 · February 2000

I just returned from a camping trip in the snow (pictures later) and learned a few things.

-Blocking the roof vents with an insulator really helps keep the heat in. I went years without doing this and noticed a difference when I started. I use the fuzzy covered foam ones you can buy from the RV store for the small vents. For the big vent above the bed I've never been able to find one for sale. Lance now offers an insulated pad which sticks on with Velcro. That would be easy to make yourself.

-Make a similar cover for the big front window unless you are lucky enough to already have double pane there. I don't and the cold air hitting the bed is tremendous. In fact the entire front of the camper was covered with snow & ice except the window because MY heat was going out through the glass. You can buy insulating blanket material in bulk from the RV store. It has aluminum on each side and looks quilted. I'm going to make a cover soon.

-Be ready for lots of condensation from the metal window frames. The edges of the bed sheets got soaked on three sides. Next time I'll put a towel under some of the windows.

-All the roof vents were frozen shut after a good night of snow so don't plan on using them.

It was great though, I stayed nice and warm thanks to the heater, full propane tanks, and 2 batteries.

oltroll1 · February 2000

I have a 00-Ram 1500 ext. cab 4x4.Its about 400 lbs over gross with all the "stuff"I carry but still handles fine.I am thinking of trading for a F250--any one know what the F 250 4X4 ext. cab with gas engine weighs??
I read where some have trouble loading their campers---I may put runners in the bed like on a boat trailer to line the camper up in the same place each time.This should also keep the camper from "walking" in the truck. Anyone ever tried this?? THANKS.

Brutus · February 2000

Going from a 1/2 ton to a 3/4 ton should give you around 1,000 pounds more payload, which would put you under the GVWR if you're only 500 over with the 1/2 ton. The extra weight of a 3/4 ton truck vs 1/2 ton shouldn't be too significant.

If you camp where it is real cold, I've also heard about people putting insulating blankets around the propane tanks. Propane does not like to be real cold. As long as it's in use, it will stay plenty warm, and it should do fine if it's not in use for a days drive. One time, I was traveling in -25+ weather and didn't use the camper for 48 hours. The propane generator would not start. The heater worked, but it took several hours to get the temp up to where it was comfortable. My camper is rated to -40 (Bigfoot 3000 with thermal pane windows and no front window in the cabover), so it wasn't an insulation issue. It was just getting the propane to warm up and work effectively. The next day, we hit temps of 35 above zero and the generator cranked right up and the heater was at full force.

In retrospect, the issue can be easily resolved in the future. Don't let the camper sit for 48 hours without running the propane. If it was subzero with no signs of hitting warmer temps anytime soon, I'd make sure to crank the generator up every few hours when I stopped for fuel or food. I'd probably also consider those thermal blankets for the propane tanks.

mledtje · February 2000

The cab on the new Silverado truck leans forward a little and that makes a boot difficult to fit between the cab and the camper.

I found boot in JC Whitney that tapers from 6" at the top to 3" at the bottom and is 30"wide and 23" tall. This boot is listed for a 73-79 Ford, but it fits my truck nicely.

The JC Whitney PN is: 10ND5699B.........$26.95

vince4 · February 2000

Thanks for the boot info Mike, I think I'll order one.

The blanket idea for the tanks is a good one. I bought several feet of the insulating material I mentioned above to line the propane and battery compartments. Of course I haven't done it but maybe some day. For now I'll use it to make my vent and window covers. Brutus I would think your camper would come with the compartments insulated. Did they not or is that just not enough in such cold weather? It only got down to 30ish on my trip, I've never been in -25 weather. I suppose all sorts of things could go wrong with my camper since it really isn't made for such cold. It would be interesting to find out. Especially if Brutus was along to invite me in from the cold!

vince4 · February 2000

I've thought about making rails for the camper. It would make loading super easy but I don't want the rails in the way for normal cargo when the camper is off. And removable rails would just be one more thing to deal with and store. Plus I'm not thrilled with drilling holes in the bed. So I decided against it. Getting the camper lined up isn't such a big deal anyway once you get some practice.

Brutus · February 2000

My holding tanks are insulated, but the propane storage area and the generator storage area are not insulated. I'm sure they have insulation where the walls of the compartment are shared with the interior, but the doors that open to the compartments are not. Basically, the propane tanks and the generator are in outside compartments.

vince4 · February 2000

It would be easy to glue some insulation on the compartment door. It may be worthwhile on the propane given where you live. You know, if I didn't have the front cabover window I wouldn't miss it much. I peek out occasionally but mostly I think about it because my back gets cold. I have a dedicated sleeping bag tucked against the window just for that reason. I can see why Bigfoot got rid of it, at least in the cold weather model.

meredith · February 2000

For purposes of efficiency....

this topic is being "frozen." Please continue these discussions in Topic 1637 Cabover Camper Chat - II.

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