Do you really NEED a 4x4?
curleyhoward1
Member Posts: 7
in General
I had to ask. I really like the way they look. I
like that they ride higher too. And, with my bad
knees, they are easier to get out of. But, do you
or I actually NEED one!? It seems that all my
buddies are buying 4x4s. Heck, one of my buddies
didn't even know to lock his hubs after owning a
truck for 3 years until we finally took it off
road. So, do you have a real need, or are all
these trucks being bought "for the resale value"?
like that they ride higher too. And, with my bad
knees, they are easier to get out of. But, do you
or I actually NEED one!? It seems that all my
buddies are buying 4x4s. Heck, one of my buddies
didn't even know to lock his hubs after owning a
truck for 3 years until we finally took it off
road. So, do you have a real need, or are all
these trucks being bought "for the resale value"?
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If you are the yuppy puppy type...who thinks 4 wheel driving is the first snow fall..or slightly muddy 2 tracks that a Cadillac could go down...don't bother. If you actualy go off road..hunting..back woods places..nasty roads like Rich mentioned..get it. Course it does add that extra security. A locker would do most people just fine instead of 4WD..but most have no idea what that is...or what exactly 4WD is. I mean..it's called 4WD....so all 4 tires turn..right??..gotta be!
I think all trucks should be 4WD. Why have one if it's not? (just my opinion)(which I am entitled to!) It's like Popcorn without butter...beer without Pizza..(or peanuts)...Caddy Shack without Rodney....Stooges without Curly....why bother?
My 2.896 Cents worth..
- Tim
What else do I need to know as a first time 4wd owner(or soon to be anyway)?
-Mike
Remember your buddy who didn't know how to lock his hubs? Same thing happened to a friend of mine, and because he never excersized his hubs, they wouldn't lock.
Consider the costs above, say, a 2 wheel drive with a locker:
Higher initial cost (worried about resale? Put the money in the bank now and watch the interest grow)
Higher operational cost including, extra fuel consumption, larger routine repair bills, etc.
Higher insurance costs.
Higher front-end collision repair costs.
Now, do you neeeeeeeed it, or want it?
Get the locker and very good winter tires, add some weight in the box, and it takes a ton of snow to stop your truck.
If you live in a rural area, fine, you need 4x4. If you live in the city and only leave paved roads 5 times a year, NO WAY!
If you WANT it (for looks, prestige, etc.) than go ahead. Just trying to differentiate between want and need.
- Tim
Forget needs. if everyone bought on needs...Our Economy would not be booming so damn good. Everyone seems to need SUV's and trucks these days. Does 95% have to be 4WD..and mostly leather interiors with every option you can think of in a truck?....hell no...But it's what we WANT.
That's all that matters.
Who started this?....someone who has 2WD?
- Tim
"In this world we buy what we WANT...not need. there are bare bones people...middle ground people...and fully loaded people."
If I were loaded, I might just buy a 4 x 4 too. Of course, I'd probably regret it the next day when I sobered up. . .
I ain't loaded by no means....just willing to make it work for what i want.
When we really want something...we make it happen.
I hate getting up in the morning...but for some reason I can play cards and drink beer all night until 4:00 the night before Opening day...then be in a blind 2 hours later...and wide awake all day...Why?...because I really WANTED to.
- Tim
I'd rather spend that extra 6 or 7 grand (the amount a 4 x 4 really costs over the life of the vehicle compared to 2wd) on a trip to Europe, or maybe the Carribean.
Mind you, the thought of ferrying my mother and mother-in-law around in 30 inches of snow sounds really fun too. Or maybe I'd just call in sick that one day of the year and catch a game on the dish instead.
You see, it's all a matter of perspective. Now don't go shave you're head, it'll get cold in all that snow.
Tim - yes, please shave your head and go and sit up a mountain, anything to get away from you (hey it's beeh a couple of weeks what did you expect - that I'd be nice) - lol.
More seriously, lexmark, I would invite you up to my little corner of rural Ontario to see why 4x4 isn't a nice to have, but without 4wd you'd never make it. And let's not forget that 4wd isn't just for snow. I have a sled dog so I know what bad weather is like - but last weekend I went to a weight pull with the dog. No snow just a few fire routes and dirt roads. Whilst I was there it rained heavily. Without 4wd I'd still have been sitting there now instead of sitting here telling you why I NEED 4x4.
And $6-$7k - over $10k Canadian??????????????????
I don't think so.
You NEED your 4 x 4. Read back, that is my point.
You are probably right about the cost thing being a bit high, heck I could go to the Carribean twice with $10,000 Canadian. I'll give you benefit of the doubt and make it $7,000 Canadian once you factor in initial cost, fuel, repairs, insurance, etc.
Mind you, and don't miss my point here, if you need it, it's worth $7 grand Canadian! Hey, even if you simply want it, it may be worth the money. But, if you aren't sure, maybe you'll spend the money on a used snowmobile (or dog sled) to throw on the back of your truck. Hey, that would solve the weight suggestion I made a few posts back. . .
Maybe the trucks you see with 4WD have all kinds of other options also? 4WD is NOT 7 grand more..
But who cares?....I got and that's all I care
It's beer time!
2000 base 2wd chevy = $15655 US
2000 base 4x4 chevy = $18770 US
Difference = $3115 US
Plus extra fuel over life of vehicle = $500 US
Plus extra insurance costs over life = $350 US
Extra repair and maint. costs on front end = $600 US
Total extra cost about $4565 US or $6800 Canadian
That is where the estimate came from. Much higher if you replace a transfer case or break a front axle.
Could be a little cheaper, could be a little more over the life of the vehicle. Depends on your luck.
Cost doesn't change the fact: some need 4x4, some want it, some think they need it, and some don't need it.
By the way markcord, I don't go off road for hunting every weekend, my family doesn't do homecare, and my boat is bigger than yours. (2wd's usually have higher tow ratings than 4x4's) A locker will get your boat out of the water. I know you must have been kidding when you insinuated that anyone who watches a game once a year is a couch potato sitting on his [non-permissible content removed]. I fear some of the other readers might be insulted if you meant otherwise.
I still contend many owners think they need 4x4 when they really don't. Go back to post #0 of this topic to read of a 4x4 owner who hadn't locked his hubs for 3 years and found they would not engage when he tried to use 4wd.
I'm pleased you made an informed decision, based on your needs, to go ahead and buy a 4x4. Sorry, you don't enjoy sports as much as you enjoy hunting and fishing.
Maybe you are right! Every truck buyer (and car buyer for that matter) needs a 4x4! The cost is minimal when you consider the extra re-sale cash and ease of selling.
You may never use it, but just having it is peace of mind, so why do without?
Why did anyone ask a question so rhetorical as, "Do you really NEED a 4x4?" Isn't it obvious that all 2wd buyers are suckers and fools! They have been duped, by dealers, into believing they can somehow get by without all 4 wheels connected to the engine. I pity them all.
2000 base 4x4 chevy = $18770 US
Source: Edmunds price
Difference = $3115 US
Source: Walmart calculator
Plus extra fuel over life of vehicle = $500 US
Source: 2 miles per gallon difference between 2wd and 4wd over the life of the vehicle (90,000 miles) = 500 extra gallons used x $1.00 per gallon = $500
Plus extra insurance costs over life = $350 US
Source - Brother-in-law's experience (May not be completely reliable): $50 dollars extra per year x 7 years = $350 His insurer claims that front end collisions can cost up to $3000 more on 4x4's!
Extra repair and maint. costs on front end = $600
US
Source - Former room-mate (May be wildly unreliable): Relaced seal(s) in transfer case, replaced rubber boots covering front universals, broke front axle. Cost was very high. I thought it kind to estimate it at $600 for the average buyer.
As to cost regained at resale time, take $3000 and put it in the bank at 6% for 7 years = $1200. If you could get $1600 more for your truck at sale time, you are up by $400 over the bank option. That is after spending many grand over the life of the truck.
Consumer Reports suggests that the cheapest way for the average consumer to own a NEW vehicle is to keep it at least 8 years before buying again. This helps you avoid the astronomically high cost of depreciation that occurs every time you buy new. (CR does not include self-employed, business owners, etc. in the 8 year recommendation) CR further suggests, that the cheapest way to own a vehicle is to buy used and sell used. A trade-in is not considered the cheapest way to finance your next vehicle. (See http://www.angelfire.com/md/Passat/carbuy1.html Don't Get Taken Tips)
I can't say I've always kept my new vehicles 8 years. I can't say I've never traded in a vehicle. I can't say I've never owned a 4x4. I can say that I have learned from my costly mistakes and have owned my current truck for more than 8 years, I plan to sell it privately, and I've determined I don't need a 4x4 next time around. I will get a locking differential, however. I'm not sure I NEED it, but I want it.
None in extra Insurance and maybe a tiny bit in gas?
$3K more....worth at least 1.5K more when sell.
Leaves - $1.5K more
Big deal
- Tim
company. When I was trying to get insurance
for my back then new 1996 Z-71, the first agent
quoted me $200 a month for full coverage!!!!!
I went to another agent and got the same
coverage for $100/month. It is now down to
$92/month. Some say I'm still getting screwed,
but personally I think it's a good quote for
full coverage on a fully-loaded Z-71(has everything except leather) and for a vehicle
that is #3 in the Most Stolen Vehicle list.
As for wanting/needing 4x4, I guess you can say
I'm somewhere in between. I'm the type of person
who wants to get most for his money and believe
in the saying,"it's better to have it and not
need it, then need it and not have it." Yes, I
could have bought a high-end sedan, but that
sedan can't tow or go off-road. Yes, I live in
the city, but I still have family in Mexico
that I visit once or twice a year, some living
in rural areas. Areas where 4WD is not considered
a status symbol, but a necessity. It has also
come in handy when I go to South Padre Island.
I've actually rescued 2WD trucks there were
stuck in the sand. I'm happy with my 4WD, and
I'll probably get another one.
With my work around ranches, bird hunting, and fishing, I use 4wd all the time, so there was no question for me. But most people are hopefully buying a pickup for reasons that are likely to require 4wd, at least occasionally. It makes sense to encourage 4wd unless you're sure it's NOT necessary, rather than vice versa. Better to be safe than sending someone's truck into the bay, getting stuck ten miles down some rural road in even the smallest mud hole, or being afraid to drive to the market in the snow. Oh yeah, with 4wd, you don't have to put chains on when they are required out here (get to drive by the suckers putting on chains) - BONUS.
I know there is a fair amount of truth that you don't get stuck until you get a 4wd. You just go more places and invariably have to push the limit at some point. But once you know what you can do with a 4wd pickup, and stay within those limits, your world gets MUCH larger than with a 2wd pickup.
If all you're doing is commuting, going to the kid's soccer game, towing camper trailers to the KOA, hauling bricks around, or taking a load to the dump, get the 2wd. But I would rather give advice to people who don't know any better to get too much rather than not enough.
I disagree. You have a quite forgiving line for the need of the 4x4. Somehow, Man got to places for years without 4x4. I'm one of those men. FEW people NEED a 4x4, especially in the flat lands. If you live in an area where snow can amount to 30 inches or more--okay....but everywhere else?
Boat ramps? Yeah, I've seen it as well. Once. Super-steep incline and he was lowering a twenty-something with a Ranger. Most ramps though are more forgiving--I hate to spend so much for an assumption and "peace" of mind.
Maybe I'm old school. I only see 4x4 for mountain terrain, true farmers, and construction areas. I think companies and hype have sold America on some good BS. Why? Hmmmmmmm.....
I live in the Flat State of Dela-where? and All I see are SUVs driving all over. We get---maybe---20 inches of snow a year. People here flip out when 3 inches fall down and stay inside while their Blazers are in the Garage. I'm skeptical.
My hunting cabin is in Fulton county,PA on a mountain and she actually sees snow. The first TEN years, I ONLY had a 4x2!!!! Somehow I got up the mountain..........
First time pickup owners might assume that pickups are better in slippery conditions, etc. just because they are bigger, and not understand that a 2wd pickup is worse than their Pontiac Bonneville or Ford Taurus. If they really want a pickup and actually intend to use it for pickup stuff, the 4wd makes life much easier and offers more ability. And I know you can put bags of sand in back, let some air out of the tires, etc, but for not that much money more, 4wd makes life lots easier. SUVs are another story, with way more weight on the rear end, 4wd is not as important. Probably 90% of them will never need 4wd (although skiers will still like not having to put chains on if they have 4wd). SUVs, for most folks, are really just a macho way to buy a mini-van.
never heard that one...
The Macho-Minivan that really cracks me up is the Mercedes M-class. Actually, it doesn't look remotely macho to me. Is the "M" in M-class supposed to stand for Mountain, or is it Molly. The brush guards I've seen on some really get me. But really, what do SUVs like that do that a 4wd Mazda MPV or other 4wd minivan can't?, other than let their wanna-be owners claim they have a truck?
A few years ago my brother-in-law (doctor & yuppie) would go on and on about his plans to get a new SUV. After getting bored with his repeated mention of the topic, I casually told him that a friend of mine once took and old station-wagon, put it on a 4x4 truck chasis, welded a bar across the back for a spare tire, and presto, he had one of the very first SUV's.
After my story, the disgusted look on my brother-in-law's face was priceless. He has never brought up the SUV thing again and is still driving a car.
- Tim
I own a 4x4 and use it. I fish, hike, camp in the Northwest. This locker thing cracks me up. I have always owned a limited slip rearend in my trucks. I have however always improved over the factory tires and shocks. A locker is more for the the avid 4x4 person who rock climbs, snorkles their vehicles and doesn't care if it gets dented, severly scratched or the interior flooded with mud. Most trails can be done with a limited slip rearend. I have taken my truck into some pretty white knuckle areas and have never had a problem. Don't buy into the locker craze.