Anyone know how to buy a car in California from a private seller and get a temp transit permit without having to pay the state tax since DMV will charge state tax on any vehicle that is driven on Ca soil? How about sneaking into Nevada and getting a transit permit there? I don't mind driving a little way without registration but I don't feel comfortable doing the whole trip without some kind of valid registration. Any thoughts would greatly help, thanks!
I'm all for a smart business move, but if one goes too far, then I think it would be counter-productive, and would make oneself look like a greedy, slimey, sleazy [non-permissible content removed] and perpetuate the stereotypical image of the car business. :mad: If what we are reading here about some of the rip-off tactics from MB and BMW are true, then I think they have crossed that line. Smart business and class should be able to co-exist.
The bigger picture is that both BMW and MB are trying to protect their Canadian dealers. Canadian customers are taking advantage of the current situation, to their benefit. BMW and MB are also trying to take advantage of the same situation to their own benefit.
Well, I think someone importing a US car is simply taking advantage of his consumer options. What BMW and MB are doing are exploiting a situation. Subtle, but important difference. If BMW and MB (as well as other manufacturers) are so interested in "protecting" their Canadian dealers, why not adjust MSRPs? Are they protecting dealers, or their own bottom line? :mad:
I think we can all agree that if MB or BMW required that you paint your car green with purple polka dots before they issued you a recall letter it would outrageous.
I see no difference in requiring you to spend money on unnecessary upgrades. Lets remember, these upgrades have absolutely nothing to do with whether or not the recalls have been performed which is the actual intent of the letter in the first place.
I am reading in other forums now that several other manufacturers have started adopting the same trick and it is not just MB and BMW. We are going to very quickly reach the point where all cars will require very expensive, unnecessary upgrades before a recall letter is provided.
What really is the difference between taking advantage of a situation and exploiting it? Canadian customers are exploiting the import rules and currency situation for their own gain. You are protecting your bottom line,so are they.
I think we can all agree that if MB or BMW required that you paint your car green with purple polka dots before they issued you a recall letter it would outrageous.
Then you know what? You go buy another car. Nowhere is it written that you have a right to own a bimmer.
Fact is, I've seen this played out before. The Grey Market fight in the 80's in the US market. The same companies, MB and BMW fought like tooth and nail to prevent the import of Euro Spec cars to the US. They were alot cheaper than the US versions. Guess what? They got the loophole in the import laws closed,no more grey market.
Enjoy this situation while you can, it won't last. The bottom line is, even with their charges you are STILL saving money on these cars. If the loonie and the dollar had their traditional relationship, NONE of you would be buying US cars. Either way, this situation won't last.
I think the bigger question is how does MB get away with charging what they do for their cars considering their completely terrible reliability record, pretty much across their entire line? A Lexus or Acura provides much better value for your money for those looking for luxury, performance and reliability. And although they have their challenges RE: importing, Lexus & Acura are not holding their potential customers hostage like MB and BMW. Just my $.02.
They get away with it because they are Mercedes Benz. The 3 pointed star still has unmatched cachet and image. Lets face it, luxury car buyers place more importance on image than they do reliability.
Hey everybody! This was on the CBC as a lead news story. The people who worked on this posted on this thread. Can we stop the side-topic MB/BMW discussion long enough to offer our congratulations to those who did the work? How many times has a BB thread led to an act of Parliament?
So if you go to Walmart to buy toilet paper because it is cheaper than what they charge you at the local drug store, you're exploiting the situation? No difference than what Canadians are doing by importing cars from the US -- it is a legal option available to them.
On the other hand, the manufacturers are exploiting because what they are doing is purely money-grabbing --- there is NO value-added component in what they are charging for. They see that car buyers are saving money, and they want a share of it. Plain and simple. Money-grabbing in its purest form! :mad:
I understand the image and cachet thing but when you're spending $70,000 for a piece of shite that is no more reliable than an $18,000 Dodge Caliber (maybe perhaps they share some of the same parts?) you're essentially throwing your money away, don't you think? If reliability was just average that would be one thing but according to the latest Consumer Reports virtually every MB model they tested had the worst ("Much Worse Than Average") reliability rating possible.
I know this isn't the topic of this thread so I will drop it, but it just baffles me that they are able to maintain this image as a maker of so-called quality vehicles with that kind of track record. I guess the comfy seats and fancy interiors will help keep you comfortable on the side of the road as you wait for the towtruck to show up.
So if you go to Walmart to buy toilet paper because it is cheaper than what they charge you at the local drug store, you're exploiting the situation? No difference than what Canadians are doing by importing cars from the US -- it is a legal option available to them.
Well that depends on your perspective doesn't it? If you own the local drugstore, its expoilting. If you are the consumer, it's smart shopping.
On the other hand, the manufacturers are exploiting because what they are doing is purely money-grabbing --- there is NO value-added component in what they are charging for. They see that car buyers are saving money, and they want a share of it. Plain and simple. Money-grabbing in its purest form!
Nothing WRONG with that. If you don't like it, don't pay it. In a market economy, sellers have a right to charge what they believe the market will bear. Lets say you had something for sale,a house for instance. Someone offers you $200,000 for the house,but then you get an offer for $230,000. which one are you going to take? There is nothing VALUE ADDED about that $30,000. it's pure profit. Why is that ok for you as a seller, but not ok if you are the buyer?
If YOU owned a BMW or Mercedes dealership, and saw how much extra revenue you could earn by charging these fees you would do it too.
I'm sorry, but I don't feel for you here. If it bothers you that much,buy another car. If enough people feel this way, maybe the pricing policy will change.
So if you go to Walmart to buy toilet paper because it is cheaper than what they charge you at the local drug store, you're exploiting the situation? No difference than what Canadians are doing by importing cars from the US -- it is a legal option available to them.
Well that depends on your perspective doesn't it? If you own the local drugstore, its expoilting. If you are the consumer, it's smart shopping.
On the other hand, the manufacturers are exploiting because what they are doing is purely money-grabbing --- there is NO value-added component in what they are charging for. They see that car buyers are saving money, and they want a share of it. Plain and simple. Money-grabbing in its purest form!
Nothing WRONG with that. If you don't like it, don't pay it. In a market economy, sellers have a right to charge what they believe the market will bear. Lets say you had something for sale,a house for instance. Someone offers you $200,000 for the house,but then you get an offer for $230,000. which one are you going to take? There is nothing VALUE ADDED about that $30,000. it's pure profit. Why is that ok for you as a seller, but not ok if you are the buyer?
If YOU owned a BMW or Mercedes dealership, and saw how much extra revenue you could earn by charging these fees you would do it too.
I'm sorry, but I don't feel for you here. If it bothers you that much,buy another car. If enough people feel this way, maybe the pricing policy will change.
The power of the people with the internet. In mid October I buy a car and closely following this site - I learned like everybody else. But then the RIV changes the lists, compliance letters are not available by the car companies and the whole experience becomes very messy. In all parts of the country, this is secretly happening. The border is being closed. We all get angry, I do several posts and so do many others - still many are looking thinking what mistake they did by buying in the US. But by the power of the internet, I connect with Bob Lamb, the guy from the Montreal Gazette. We receive jointly 10-15-20 private e-mails - there are maybe hundred of people in trouble. Our first meeting is Nov. 18 in Mtl - we ask for help on this site Edmunds. We are looking for volunteers. 2 days, later we have a new site www.carswithoutborders.com dedicated to fighting for consumers. The same day the G&M and then the CBC National on National TV. We ask for Canadians to post their cases and then we start a massive campaign - write - write all across Canada. We have a super media team, an immobilizer team, a web team (all volunteers) Nov 30, TC comes out with the new rules and on Dec. 19 the new rules take effect.
The power of the people getting together with the new weapon. The internet. Edmunds, EBay, Internet shopping and CarsWithoutBorders...all new tools (or weapons) to benefit consumers in this modern age. The modern electronic age has just begun. We don't know where it will end , but please Car Companies, governments, no more lying, no more cheating, no more coverups - the world is a lot smaller and a lot more informed and ready for the battle.
It is quite a story and man - success sure feels good. Thanks to all who signed the petition on the site, who called their MP, Cannon, etc. Those who volunteered their personal time and a great thanks to Robert Lamb, a true friend and finally this Montreal reporter Jan from the Mtl Gazette who got us all started. It's quite an event.
You know what, for a variety of reasons, I'm going to bite my tongue and not carry this on any further because you are so fundamentally and profoundly off the mark on so many points I wouldn't know where to begin, and it would take up too much time and space here to debate it further. Some of the analogies you've used just blows the mind!
Well, ok... this one I can't resist:
"If you own the local drugstore, its expoilting. If you are the consumer, it's smart shopping."
You do realize the drugstore owner is the one that sets the (lower) price, on his own free will? So what would that be? An invitation to exploit?! A store owner sets a lower price to pull in customers, then accuses them of exploiting him when they buy from him! Oh God almighty! I think there should be a new course at Harvard Business School!
If they wanted to protect their Canadian dealers they would lower the outrageous prices they are charging them to get the vehicles on the lot in the first place...particularly in the current economic environment...
Instead they choose to protect their padded profits here in this country...ie: the ones being achieved by riding on the backs of Canadian folk.....
Why are you here exactly? Are you the guy in the new Honda commercials perhaps?
The bottom [non-permissible content removed] line is that there is no excuse for what some of these arrogant manufacturers are doing, and there is nothing that anyone can say to convince people with half a brain otherwise....
I have to laugh at the irony...the pricing disparity is at its worse with the luxury vehicles...the funny thing is that the majority of the people buying these products are affluent individuals who are educated and likely do have half a clue. You would think BMW and Mercedes and the like would realize this and tread a little more lightly with their arrogance.
One other thing...I'll tell you the specific difference because you clearly do not know. The difference is they are in business, and usually anyone that is in business sees the value in having respect towards their customer. I on the other hand do not have business considerations. I am a consumer.
The owner of my car from Massachuttes allowed me to drive the car with his plates into New Hamshire. I had the car trailered from there to Toronto, Canada. The total trip was 8 hours I paid roughly $ 1200.00 for a trailer to come out and pick me up in New Hamshire. The funny thing was I should have left the car in the owners driveway since we drove right by from New Hamshire, a 3 hour detour that could have been avoided. I just wanted to get the car away from the owner before he changed his mind.
That's the word! Respect. It's not so much good business, bad business. BMW and MB are simply showing no respect for their customers. They are biting the hand that feeds them. They are whoring themselves.
I understand from BMW’s website that they are charging $500 for a recall clearance letter.
The relevant text from their website is pasted verbatim below:
“Once you have the letter of admissibility you must bring your vehicle to a Canadian BMW Retailer and apply for a ‘recall clearance letter’ (Please note: This document will confirm there are no recalls on your imported US BMW and is the only document Registrar of Imported Vehicles (RIV) will accept). The letter will cost $500.00 and take 15-20 business days to process. While your vehicle is there you should have the daytime running lights activated as this is mandatory and can only be done at a Canadian BMW Retailer.” [http://www.bmw.ca/content/pressReleases/can_us_faq_fs.asp?lang=en]
My understanding from Transport Canada’s Motor Vehicle Safety Act, subsection 10.(1), Notice of Safety Defect, “Obligation to give notice” is that the vehicle manufacturer is legally required to cause notice of the defect to be given in the prescribed manner to each current owner of such a vehicle.
The relevant section of the Act is pasted verbatim below:
NOTICE OF SAFETY DEFECTS
Obligation to give notice
10. (1) A company that manufactures, sells or imports any vehicle or equipment of a class for which standards are prescribed shall, on becoming aware of a defect in the design, construction or functioning of the vehicle or equipment that affects or is likely to affect the safety of any person, cause notice of the defect to be given in the prescribed manner to
(a) the Minister;
(b) each person who has obtained such a vehicle or equipment from the company; and
(c) each current owner of such a vehicle or equipment as determined
(i) from any warranty issued by the company with respect to the functioning of the vehicle or equipment that has, to its knowledge, been given, sold or transferred to the current owner,
(ii) in the case of a vehicle, from provincial motor vehicle registration records, or
(iii) in the case of equipment, from a registration system referred to in paragraph 5(1)(h).
My concern is that BMW is not fulfilling its legal obligation under the Motor Vehicle Safety Act by requiring purchasers of vehicles to pay for this recall notice. In this matter of safety, BMW would appear to be violating the Act by effectively withholding this information due to their charging $500 for this requirement. Also, the waiting period for the recall letter appears to be unreasonable.
aloha_eric - I haven't followed all the tread here but... I totally agree with you - this $500 charge is robbery and probably illegal. The delays are also inexcusable for somethng that takes 5 minutes. We have 3-4 members (BMW cases) who have registered their cases on our web site www.carwithoutborders.com. $500 recall letters are all part of the trade barrier being put up to stop the free easy flow of goods. It is without foundation. I like your e-mail to RIV but we beleive they are puppets, they don't think, they execute what T.Canada and the manufacturers are telling them. WE will be picking up that fight strongly in January as we are all exhausted from the immobilizer fight. If you want to volunteer to the CWB team please write me serge@bergeron.ca We need to tear down these walls that the OEM are putting up.
Could someone please explain to me why, on the updated RIV list, all 2008 Toyota Siennas manufactured after Sept. 1 are inadmissible? The CE and the LE don't have the full anti-theft immobilizer system, but the XLE certainly does. Is this an example of Toyota calling the shots at Transport Canada? Just curious.....
I do not see updated RIV list - date on current one is still Dec 12th. I called in RIV, and they told me that they will be updating list ASAP, but most likely after Dec 26th. I am not sure who will decide if RIV can update list, or if they will wait till manufacturers re-submit info on their cars. I hope RIV will be able to do this.
The next battleground are the recall letters. I have now counted 10 manufacturers who have started imposing fees of up to $5,000 (plus unnecessary modifications) to get the letters and who have convinced RIV not to accept dealer letters (even if they follow the procedure outlined on the RIV website).
We won the battle on immobilizers but the war is still ongoing.
With a lot of help from people on this board as well as the RFD message board, I've successfully registered and plated my CLK in BC. The overall process was not too difficult, just waiting for stupid letters was a pain. I'm more then happy to share my experience with you guys.
***Ignore this message if you're not interested in importing a MB.***
I found my car through a private sale in Portland. Once agreed with the seller that I was interested, I went to www.mercedes.ca/admissibility and filled out the information for the car, and a letter was sent to me 9 business days later. If you ask me, 9 days is pretty excessive to print a letter that is based off a template except with the vin number changed. At the same time, I had wrote a letter for the seller to send to Mercedes USA for the recall letter, and had the letter addressed to my fax machine. Recall letter was received the NEXT day. The seller agreed to have the car inspected at Mercedes Portland, and I covered the cost of that. Total cost for the 155 point inspection was $300 (no tax in Oregon!!). In my honest opinion, I'd rather spend $300 on inspection then to have a lemon. The car checked out with no problems.
For those of you in BC, this is what I did for insurance. I went to my autoplan agent and got an ICBC binder of insurance for the car. This is easy to get. All you need is the VIN# of the car, make, model, year and you're on your way. It was around the $80-90 area, good for 14-15 days i believe. You take that with you to the states but that's only half of what you need to do. The car had existing Portland plates on it which the seller agreed to leave on, but in Washington, I went to the closest DMV to pick up a temp permit. Drove it up. The car was left at the border at a family friends place for the 72 hour period. I had previously filled out the export worksheet and faxed it to the border at an OfficeMax on the way up from Portland. During this 72 hour period is when I received my letter of admissibility. I took a gamble and bought the car before the admissibilty letter arrived, but the MB Canada CS rep clearly stated, if it's on the website it's admissible. Talking to them was like talking to a cop when getting pulled over. None the less the admissibilty letter arrived.
At the Pac Hwy border I had zero problems at US export. He took my worksheet, stamped it, said the Stanley Cup has been denied access to Canada for over a decade, and told me to head up to Canada. At Canada Customs I presented all the paperwork/letters, paid my taxes and we were done. (I forgot to bring the ad for the car. Stupid mistake of mine which caused a lil fuss about the price of the car, so don't forget that). Headed straight to the Mercedes dealership closest to my house.
Now I had stopped by their dealership earlier on to get more information. The first service advisor said the cost would be approx $6000-8000 for modifications. Once I had told him that a friend did his C-Class for $4500, he says "ok, it's probably around there". Second service advisor stated the same thing. So when I arrived, the second advisor is who I was dealing with and he told me there is the $750 admin fee which will be included in the $4500 charge. So $4500 taxes in, and 4 weeks to get my car modified. Daytime lights, new dash console(i have the old one in my trunk), and foam for the bumpers. Well too late to back off now, I already have the car here. I'll bend over and take the $4500 hit, but keeping in mind that with that price I purchased the car for, i'm still saving $8000. This is where it gets interesting...
3 days later I get a call from the service advisor saying my car is done, and it only cost approx $2950 taxes in. WOW! Here I am sitting online looking for a rental car for the next month and my car is DONE. Regional inspector checked out the car on Wednesday and I had my Letter of Compliance by Thursday. RIV sent me my Form 2 the same day as well. So yesterday I purchased ICBC Point A to Point B insurance and I brought the car to CT for Fed/Prov inspection, took approx 20-30mins and I was off to the autoplan to get my car registered and plated!!
With this said, it seemed as though the service advisor did what ever he could to detour me from importing the car. Giving me an high cost and a 4+ week wait. None the less I was given an early Christmas present by Mercedes although I'm still not happy about the $750 admin charge. After all the modifications were done to the car the service advisor seemed to lighten up a bit and turns out he's a pretty nice guy. But the overall process on importing the car was easy, it's just waiting for Mercedes Benz to send the admissibilty letter which caused the most headache.
Overall savings since the modification bill was reduced from $4500 to $2950...... approx $9500.
My best advice to anyone wanting to import a MB, be persistant with Mercedes Canada. They seemed to drag out the letter of admissibilty process as long as they could, and when you're buying a car you need to act fast because the car could be sold by the time you get your letter.
For those of you who are still reading, I'd be more than happy to answer any questions you may have. But in relation to the discussion above about MB/BMW, I'm in 100% agreement that the $750 cost (for MB) is rediculous.
But .... the company does not have an ongoing obligation to inform owners who have bought from someone who has already been informed of a safety issue. So BMW is not acting illegally.
It seems to me that the way forward for removing the recall letter obstacle is for TC to allow owners to access their records of recall notices, to print them out then have Canadian Tire verify that all recall issues have been corrected.
Thx woodytwo, yes, we are truly enjoying this vehicle ! I strongly believe GM has a great hit with the Lambdas. We love everything about it with one exception – mileage is below the advertised numbers – but, hey, it ain’t Civic and it is for utility
Wrt warranty... I simply called GM customer service and got the story from them. Even checked 3 weeks ago again to be absolutely sure. The warranty follows the car in North America and that 6 month/7500 mile warranty delay works both ways, for us importing form the US and for Americans importing to the US. I’ve already registered my VIN and my address, all is cool. BTW, if you read your user manual you will see how highly the info is harmonized for Canadian and US market; it is the same manual I believe.
You do realize the drugstore owner is the one that sets the (lower) price, on his own free will? So what would that be? An invitation to exploit?! A store owner sets a lower price to pull in customers, then accuses them of exploiting him when they buy from him! Oh God almighty! I think there should be a new course at Harvard Business School!
You are completely missing the mark. The example was Walmart undercutting the local drugstore. The man who owns the local drugstore,who cannot compete at the lower price would say that Walmart is exploiting the situation for its own gain and to harm the drug store owner. The consumer that shops at Walmart benefits, hence the smart shopping, at the expense of the local shopowner.
If they wanted to protect their Canadian dealers they would lower the outrageous prices they are charging them to get the vehicles on the lot in the first place...particularly in the current economic environment...
lowering their prices is not an option.
Instead they choose to protect their padded profits here in this country...ie: the ones being achieved by riding on the backs of Canadian folk.....
BMW is not a charity. They are a business. A very succesful,wealthy business. They are under NO obligation to cheap sell their product. On the contrary, their obligation to their company and to their shareholders is to MAXIMIZE thi profits however they can. Why is this simple fact so hard to understand? Do you honestly believe that a business OWE'S you a lower price? Why?
I have to laugh at the irony...the pricing disparity is at its worse with the luxury vehicles...the funny thing is that the majority of the people buying these products are affluent individuals who are educated and likely do have half a clue. You would think BMW and Mercedes and the like would realize this and tread a little more lightly with their arrogance.
The vast majority of people who buy these cars are business owners themselves and recognize that succesful companies need to make profits. the President of Porsche put it best, "Succesful people like to buy from a succesful company" In other words, the rich prefer to do business with the rich. It is usually those people who are stretching to afford a BMW or Mercedes who complain about the pricing.
That's the word! Respect. It's not so much good business, bad business. BMW and MB are simply showing no respect for their customers. They are biting the hand that feeds them. They are whoring themselves.
Thing is though, you aren't their customer. You are BMW USA's customer. the feeling is probably something like this: You went out of your way to buy a BMW in the US, so BMW Canada is going to get their pound of flesh. Is this right? No, it probably isn't. Its just business. Respect for the customer has nothing to do with trying to extract the maximum profit from him or her. Dealers and other businesses do this every day. Some are just smoother than others,thats all.
Lowering their prices is not an option...why? Because you say so? It would become a pretty damn good option for them if Canadians banned together and showed them that they are not willing to pay their [non-permissible content removed] prices....
There is lots of room for them to move down in price. Tonnes of room...Period. Feel free to come off as an authority on the manufacturing perspective all you want. Nobody cares....at least in here....I go back to a question I posed to you a few posts back...you are here why? I'm not asking this to be an [non-permissible content removed] to you...I seriously am curious because you seem to be off topic.
People are not stupid man. I and others recognize that it is essentially not possible for car prices to be matched exactly to American pricing...because it is a fact that it does cost more to do business in Canada than it does in the US. Most people won't dispute this fact. What people have a problem with is the level of unjustified disparity that exists in the pricing.
You're right...business is business...but in the end respect and good business practices can matter...some of these manufacturers are engaging in some pretty outrages tactics...bordering on illegal if not illegal...this is not okay regardless of what you have to say...
"Thing is though, you aren't their customer. You are BMW USA's customer."
Oh, give me a freakin' break!
volvomax, you're probably a good car salesman. Just stick to what you do best. I doubt you will find any supporters (outside of the car business) for your views. The ironic thing is, even the Canadian car dealers would not support your argument.
Volvomax, you can't be serious...come on. The facts are so simple why are you twisting things so much? Simply put, and generally speaking, cars for the Canadian and US markets are manufactured in the same facility, and in some cases those facilities are in Canada. So cost to manufacture is the same. Therefore, cost to the dealers in both countries SHOULD be about the same (aside from regional tax differences and product transportation costs). IF overhead such as marketing and labour is higher for a Canadian dealer, then that is fine, the dealer can increase the retail price to account for it. But what in fact is happening is that the manufacturers are charging the Canadian dealers 30 to 40% more for the product. There is no excuse for this other than a marketplace that is willing to accept it. Plain and simple.
The revised admissables is good news for Yaris &Corrollas,
Volvomax Please explain the following Toyota PDI&F CAN = $1249 US =$660 SHIPPED FROM CAMBRIDGE. Lube Oil Filter Can 5 m Kilo US 5M miles made in Cambridge, Is that different between Fort Erie and Buffalo?
Actually, i am not off topic. i am responding to a post complaining about BMW's dealership pricing policies. since those policies are related to the import of US spec cars to Canada it is very much on topic. Since this isn't your personal forum,that is all the justification you are going to get.
Lowering their prices is not an option...why? Because you say so? It would become a pretty damn good option for them if Canadians banned together and showed them that they are not willing to pay their [non-permissible content removed] prices....
good luck with that.
There is lots of room for them to move down in price. Tonnes of room...Period. Feel free to come off as an authority on the manufacturing perspective all you want. Nobody cares....at least in here....I go back to a question I posed to you a few posts back...you are here why? I'm not asking this to be an [non-permissible content removed] to you...I seriously am curious because you seem to be off topic.
Really? Do have a dollar amount in mind? Do you have an inkling of what BMW's costs are? BMW is a German company that does business in Euro's. For them to reprice their cars in a currency that is worth a great deal less than the Euro is asinine. They would lose their asses, that is why it isn't going to happen. Volvo Cars NA lost $140 MILLION alone this year on the de-valuation of the dollar. Imagine what would happen to BMW.
As I stated in another post,the cost differences exist. BMW's costs are in Euro's,not dollars or Loonies. BMW sells ALOT of cars in the US,so those costs can be spread over a wider range. Even so, the dollar devaluation has put a serious crimp in BMW's US profits. BMW sells far fewer cars in Canada,so those costs are more constrained. Plus, there are differences in taxes and tariffs,and even the specification of the cars.
On the immobilizer fight that we just won - I know not everyone will agree with this - but thank you Minister Cannon - although we did go at you pretty strongly and rightfully we beleive, you directed your staff at Transport Canada to move fast - you kept your word on this and we thank you. There are still a lot of problems with the whole process and the wall the companies are putting up, but thanks for fixing up the first mess. A legacy of the Liberals I beleive.
You don't make any sense volvomax, so I will take one last stab at this.
What the hell does a line on a map have to do with anything? BMW sells a car in Seattle for $50,000 and the same car in Vancouver, for $80,000 because, according to your logic, BMW can "spread their costs" across all cars sold in the US? That is ridiculous. BMW can spread their costs over ALL cars sold in NORTH AMERICA; the costs of doing business in Canada are not 30 to 40% higher than the US. BMW sells more cars in New York than they do in Missoula Montana but the MSP is the same in both locations even though there are more cars to "spread their costs" across in NY - so how does that work?? Most other products that I buy in Canada are priced close to what they sell for in the US, even though the manufacturer has a bigger market in the US to "spread their costs" across. Even the manufacturers themselves don't use your goofy logic; most just chalk it up to supply and demand (a nice way of saying Canadians are willing to pay more) My gawd, either you are so stubborn that you refuse to acknowledge common sense or your simply lack it all together. Anyway, those are my final thoughts on this topic.
Comments
I'll check that out - if I ever succeed I'll let you all know - 2.1 % in the USA - 6.1% Canada - sounds about right for Canada
Canadian customers are taking advantage of the current situation, to their benefit.
BMW and MB are also trying to take advantage of the same situation to their own benefit.
I think we can all agree that if MB or BMW required that you paint your car green with purple polka dots before they issued you a recall letter it would outrageous.
I see no difference in requiring you to spend money on unnecessary upgrades. Lets remember, these upgrades have absolutely nothing to do with whether or not the recalls have been performed which is the actual intent of the letter in the first place.
I am reading in other forums now that several other manufacturers have started adopting the same trick and it is not just MB and BMW. We are going to very quickly reach the point where all cars will require very expensive, unnecessary upgrades before a recall letter is provided.
Canadian customers are exploiting the import rules and currency situation for their own gain.
You are protecting your bottom line,so are they.
Then you know what?
You go buy another car.
Nowhere is it written that you have a right to own a bimmer.
Fact is, I've seen this played out before.
The Grey Market fight in the 80's in the US market.
The same companies, MB and BMW fought like tooth and nail to prevent the import of Euro Spec cars to the US. They were alot cheaper than the US versions.
Guess what?
They got the loophole in the import laws closed,no more grey market.
Enjoy this situation while you can, it won't last.
The bottom line is, even with their charges you are STILL saving money on these cars.
If the loonie and the dollar had their traditional relationship, NONE of you would be buying US cars. Either way, this situation won't last.
You may need a transit permit for the other states you will be driving through back to Alberta so you need to check the DMV sites for those states.
The 3 pointed star still has unmatched cachet and image.
Lets face it, luxury car buyers place more importance on image than they do reliability.
On the other hand, the manufacturers are exploiting because what they are doing is purely money-grabbing --- there is NO value-added component in what they are charging for. They see that car buyers are saving money, and they want a share of it. Plain and simple. Money-grabbing in its purest form! :mad:
I know this isn't the topic of this thread so I will drop it, but it just baffles me that they are able to maintain this image as a maker of so-called quality vehicles with that kind of track record. I guess the comfy seats and fancy interiors will help keep you comfortable on the side of the road as you wait for the towtruck to show up.
Well that depends on your perspective doesn't it?
If you own the local drugstore, its expoilting.
If you are the consumer, it's smart shopping.
On the other hand, the manufacturers are exploiting because what they are doing is purely money-grabbing --- there is NO value-added component in what they are charging for. They see that car buyers are saving money, and they want a share of it. Plain and simple. Money-grabbing in its purest form!
Nothing WRONG with that.
If you don't like it, don't pay it.
In a market economy, sellers have a right to charge what they believe the market will bear.
Lets say you had something for sale,a house for instance.
Someone offers you $200,000 for the house,but then you get an offer for $230,000.
which one are you going to take?
There is nothing VALUE ADDED about that $30,000. it's pure profit.
Why is that ok for you as a seller, but not ok if you are the buyer?
If YOU owned a BMW or Mercedes dealership, and saw how much extra revenue you could earn by charging these fees you would do it too.
I'm sorry, but I don't feel for you here.
If it bothers you that much,buy another car.
If enough people feel this way, maybe the pricing policy will change.
Well that depends on your perspective doesn't it?
If you own the local drugstore, its expoilting.
If you are the consumer, it's smart shopping.
On the other hand, the manufacturers are exploiting because what they are doing is purely money-grabbing --- there is NO value-added component in what they are charging for. They see that car buyers are saving money, and they want a share of it. Plain and simple. Money-grabbing in its purest form!
Nothing WRONG with that.
If you don't like it, don't pay it.
In a market economy, sellers have a right to charge what they believe the market will bear.
Lets say you had something for sale,a house for instance.
Someone offers you $200,000 for the house,but then you get an offer for $230,000.
which one are you going to take?
There is nothing VALUE ADDED about that $30,000. it's pure profit.
Why is that ok for you as a seller, but not ok if you are the buyer?
If YOU owned a BMW or Mercedes dealership, and saw how much extra revenue you could earn by charging these fees you would do it too.
I'm sorry, but I don't feel for you here.
If it bothers you that much,buy another car.
If enough people feel this way, maybe the pricing policy will change.
Where did you get the info on the warranty? I don't think that my USA warranty spells out the no warranty provisions if I export to Canada. :confuse:
The power of the people with the internet. In mid October I buy a car and closely following this site - I learned like everybody else. But then the RIV changes the lists, compliance letters are not available by the car companies and the whole experience becomes very messy. In all parts of the country, this is secretly happening. The border is being closed. We all get angry, I do several posts and so do many others - still many are looking thinking what mistake they did by buying in the US. But by the power of the internet, I connect with Bob Lamb, the guy from the Montreal Gazette. We receive jointly 10-15-20 private e-mails - there are maybe hundred of people in trouble. Our first meeting is Nov. 18 in Mtl - we ask for help on this site Edmunds. We are looking for volunteers. 2 days, later we have a new site www.carswithoutborders.com dedicated to fighting for consumers. The same day the G&M and then the CBC National on National TV. We ask for Canadians to post their cases and then we start a massive campaign - write - write all across Canada. We have a super media team, an immobilizer team, a web team (all volunteers) Nov 30, TC comes out with the new rules and on Dec. 19 the new rules take effect.
The power of the people getting together with the new weapon. The internet. Edmunds, EBay, Internet shopping and CarsWithoutBorders...all new tools (or weapons) to benefit consumers in this modern age. The modern electronic age has just begun. We don't know where it will end , but please Car Companies, governments, no more lying, no more cheating, no more coverups - the world is a lot smaller and a lot more informed and ready for the battle.
It is quite a story and man - success sure feels good. Thanks to all who signed the petition on the site, who called their MP, Cannon, etc. Those who volunteered their personal time and a great thanks to Robert Lamb, a true friend and finally this Montreal reporter Jan from the Mtl Gazette who got us all started. It's quite an event.
Well, ok... this one I can't resist:
"If you own the local drugstore, its expoilting.
If you are the consumer, it's smart shopping."
You do realize the drugstore owner is the one that sets the (lower) price, on his own free will? So what would that be? An invitation to exploit?! A store owner sets a lower price to pull in customers, then accuses them of exploiting him when they buy from him! Oh God almighty! I think there should be a new course at Harvard Business School!
If they wanted to protect their Canadian dealers they would lower the outrageous prices they are charging them to get the vehicles on the lot in the first place...particularly in the current economic environment...
Instead they choose to protect their padded profits here in this country...ie: the ones being achieved by riding on the backs of Canadian folk.....
Why are you here exactly? Are you the guy in the new Honda commercials perhaps?
The bottom [non-permissible content removed] line is that there is no excuse for what some of these arrogant manufacturers are doing, and there is nothing that anyone can say to convince people with half a brain otherwise....
I have to laugh at the irony...the pricing disparity is at its worse with the luxury vehicles...the funny thing is that the majority of the people buying these products are affluent individuals who are educated and likely do have half a clue. You would think BMW and Mercedes and the like would realize this and tread a little more lightly with their arrogance.
Cheers
Cheers
Jaro
That's the word! Respect. It's not so much good business, bad business. BMW and MB are simply showing no respect for their customers. They are biting the hand that feeds them. They are whoring themselves.
Dear RIV,
I understand from BMW’s website that they are charging $500 for a recall clearance letter.
The relevant text from their website is pasted verbatim below:
“Once you have the letter of admissibility you must bring your vehicle to a Canadian BMW Retailer and apply for a ‘recall clearance letter’ (Please note: This document will confirm there are no recalls on your imported US BMW and is the only document Registrar of Imported Vehicles (RIV) will accept). The letter will cost $500.00 and take 15-20 business days to process. While your vehicle is there you should have the daytime running lights activated as this is mandatory and can only be done at a Canadian BMW Retailer.” [http://www.bmw.ca/content/pressReleases/can_us_faq_fs.asp?lang=en]
My understanding from Transport Canada’s Motor Vehicle Safety Act, subsection 10.(1), Notice of Safety Defect, “Obligation to give notice” is that the vehicle manufacturer is legally required to cause notice of the defect to be given in the prescribed manner to each current owner of such a vehicle.
The relevant section of the Act is pasted verbatim below:
NOTICE OF SAFETY DEFECTS
Obligation to give notice
10. (1) A company that manufactures, sells or imports any vehicle or equipment of a class for which standards are prescribed shall, on becoming aware of a defect in the design, construction or functioning of the vehicle or equipment that affects or is likely to affect the safety of any person, cause notice of the defect to be given in the prescribed manner to
(a) the Minister;
(b) each person who has obtained such a vehicle or equipment from the company; and
(c) each current owner of such a vehicle or equipment as determined
(i) from any warranty issued by the company with respect to the functioning of the vehicle or equipment that has, to its knowledge, been given, sold or transferred to the current owner,
(ii) in the case of a vehicle, from provincial motor vehicle registration records, or
(iii) in the case of equipment, from a registration system referred to in paragraph 5(1)(h).
[http://www.tc.gc.ca/acts-regulations/GENERAL/m/mvsa/act/mvsa.html#VEHICLE AND- %20EQUIPMENT%20STANDARDS]
My concern is that BMW is not fulfilling its legal obligation under the Motor Vehicle Safety Act by requiring purchasers of vehicles to pay for this recall notice. In this matter of safety, BMW would appear to be violating the Act by effectively withholding this information due to their charging $500 for this requirement. Also, the waiting period for the recall letter appears to be unreasonable.
I look forward to your reply,
I totally agree with you - this $500 charge is robbery and probably illegal. The delays are also inexcusable for somethng that takes 5 minutes. We have 3-4 members (BMW cases) who have registered their cases on our web site www.carwithoutborders.com. $500 recall letters are all part of the trade barrier being put up to stop the free easy flow of goods. It is without foundation. I like your e-mail to RIV but we beleive they are puppets, they don't think, they execute what T.Canada and the manufacturers are telling them. WE will be picking up that fight strongly in January as we are all exhausted from the immobilizer fight. If you want to volunteer to the CWB team please write me serge@bergeron.ca
We need to tear down these walls that the OEM are putting up.
I do not see updated RIV list - date on current one is still Dec 12th. I called in RIV, and they told me that they will be updating list ASAP, but most likely after Dec 26th. I am not sure who will decide if RIV can update list, or if they will wait till manufacturers re-submit info on their cars. I hope RIV will be able to do this.
The next battleground are the recall letters. I have now counted 10 manufacturers who have started imposing fees of up to $5,000 (plus unnecessary modifications) to get the letters and who have convinced RIV not to accept dealer letters (even if they follow the procedure outlined on the RIV website).
We won the battle on immobilizers but the war is still ongoing.
I've seed that it may be 2.5% so if it is a straightforward process, is should be worth the effort.
Let us know. Thanks
***Ignore this message if you're not interested in importing a MB.***
I found my car through a private sale in Portland. Once agreed with the seller that I was interested, I went to www.mercedes.ca/admissibility and filled out the information for the car, and a letter was sent to me 9 business days later. If you ask me, 9 days is pretty excessive to print a letter that is based off a template except with the vin number changed. At the same time, I had wrote a letter for the seller to send to Mercedes USA for the recall letter, and had the letter addressed to my fax machine. Recall letter was received the NEXT day. The seller agreed to have the car inspected at Mercedes Portland, and I covered the cost of that. Total cost for the 155 point inspection was $300 (no tax in Oregon!!). In my honest opinion, I'd rather spend $300 on inspection then to have a lemon. The car checked out with no problems.
For those of you in BC, this is what I did for insurance. I went to my autoplan agent and got an ICBC binder of insurance for the car. This is easy to get. All you need is the VIN# of the car, make, model, year and you're on your way. It was around the $80-90 area, good for 14-15 days i believe. You take that with you to the states but that's only half of what you need to do. The car had existing Portland plates on it which the seller agreed to leave on, but in Washington, I went to the closest DMV to pick up a temp permit. Drove it up. The car was left at the border at a family friends place for the 72 hour period. I had previously filled out the export worksheet and faxed it to the border at an OfficeMax on the way up from Portland. During this 72 hour period is when I received my letter of admissibility. I took a gamble and bought the car before the admissibilty letter arrived, but the MB Canada CS rep clearly stated, if it's on the website it's admissible. Talking to them was like talking to a cop when getting pulled over. None the less the admissibilty letter arrived.
At the Pac Hwy border I had zero problems at US export. He took my worksheet, stamped it, said the Stanley Cup has been denied access to Canada for over a decade, and told me to head up to Canada. At Canada Customs I presented all the paperwork/letters, paid my taxes and we were done. (I forgot to bring the ad for the car. Stupid mistake of mine which caused a lil fuss about the price of the car, so don't forget that). Headed straight to the Mercedes dealership closest to my house.
Now I had stopped by their dealership earlier on to get more information. The first service advisor said the cost would be approx $6000-8000 for modifications. Once I had told him that a friend did his C-Class for $4500, he says "ok, it's probably around there". Second service advisor stated the same thing. So when I arrived, the second advisor is who I was dealing with and he told me there is the $750 admin fee which will be included in the $4500 charge. So $4500 taxes in, and 4 weeks to get my car modified. Daytime lights, new dash console(i have the old one in my trunk), and foam for the bumpers. Well too late to back off now, I already have the car here. I'll bend over and take the $4500 hit, but keeping in mind that with that price I purchased the car for, i'm still saving $8000. This is where it gets interesting...
3 days later I get a call from the service advisor saying my car is done, and it only cost approx $2950 taxes in. WOW! Here I am sitting online looking for a rental car for the next month and my car is DONE. Regional inspector checked out the car on Wednesday and I had my Letter of Compliance by Thursday. RIV sent me my Form 2 the same day as well. So yesterday I purchased ICBC Point A to Point B insurance and I brought the car to CT for Fed/Prov inspection, took approx 20-30mins and I was off to the autoplan to get my car registered and plated!!
With this said, it seemed as though the service advisor did what ever he could to detour me from importing the car. Giving me an high cost and a 4+ week wait. None the less I was given an early Christmas present by Mercedes although I'm still not happy about the $750 admin charge. After all the modifications were done to the car the service advisor seemed to lighten up a bit and turns out he's a pretty nice guy. But the overall process on importing the car was easy, it's just waiting for Mercedes Benz to send the admissibilty letter which caused the most headache.
Overall savings since the modification bill was reduced from $4500 to $2950...... approx $9500.
My best advice to anyone wanting to import a MB, be persistant with Mercedes Canada. They seemed to drag out the letter of admissibilty process as long as they could, and when you're buying a car you need to act fast because the car could be sold by the time you get your letter.
For those of you who are still reading, I'd be more than happy to answer any questions you may have. But in relation to the discussion above about MB/BMW, I'm in 100% agreement that the $750 cost (for MB) is rediculous.
BL
It seems to me that the way forward for removing the recall letter obstacle is for TC to allow owners to access their records of recall notices, to print them out then have Canadian Tire verify that all recall issues have been corrected.
Wrt warranty... I simply called GM customer service and got the story from them. Even checked 3 weeks ago again to be absolutely sure. The warranty follows the car in North America and that 6 month/7500 mile warranty delay works both ways, for us importing form the US and for Americans importing to the US. I’ve already registered my VIN and my address, all is cool. BTW, if you read your user manual you will see how highly the info is harmonized for Canadian and US market; it is the same manual I believe.
You are completely missing the mark.
The example was Walmart undercutting the local drugstore.
The man who owns the local drugstore,who cannot compete at the lower price would say that Walmart is exploiting the situation for its own gain and to harm the drug store owner.
The consumer that shops at Walmart benefits, hence the smart shopping, at the expense of the local shopowner.
lowering their prices is not an option.
Instead they choose to protect their padded profits here in this country...ie: the ones being achieved by riding on the backs of Canadian folk.....
BMW is not a charity. They are a business. A very succesful,wealthy business.
They are under NO obligation to cheap sell their product.
On the contrary, their obligation to their company and to their shareholders is to MAXIMIZE thi profits however they can.
Why is this simple fact so hard to understand?
Do you honestly believe that a business OWE'S you a lower price?
Why?
I have to laugh at the irony...the pricing disparity is at its worse with the luxury vehicles...the funny thing is that the majority of the people buying these products are affluent individuals who are educated and likely do have half a clue. You would think BMW and Mercedes and the like would realize this and tread a little more lightly with their arrogance.
The vast majority of people who buy these cars are business owners themselves and recognize that succesful companies need to make profits.
the President of Porsche put it best, "Succesful people like to buy from a succesful company" In other words, the rich prefer to do business with the rich.
It is usually those people who are stretching to afford a BMW or Mercedes who complain about the pricing.
That's the word! Respect. It's not so much good business, bad business. BMW and MB are simply showing no respect for their customers. They are biting the hand that feeds them. They are whoring themselves.
Thing is though, you aren't their customer.
You are BMW USA's customer.
the feeling is probably something like this:
You went out of your way to buy a BMW in the US, so BMW Canada is going to get their pound of flesh.
Is this right?
No, it probably isn't.
Its just business.
Respect for the customer has nothing to do with trying to extract the maximum profit from him or her.
Dealers and other businesses do this every day.
Some are just smoother than others,thats all.
There is lots of room for them to move down in price. Tonnes of room...Period. Feel free to come off as an authority on the manufacturing perspective all you want. Nobody cares....at least in here....I go back to a question I posed to you a few posts back...you are here why? I'm not asking this to be an [non-permissible content removed] to you...I seriously am curious because you seem to be off topic.
People are not stupid man. I and others recognize that it is essentially not possible for car prices to be matched exactly to American pricing...because it is a fact that it does cost more to do business in Canada than it does in the US. Most people won't dispute this fact. What people have a problem with is the level of unjustified disparity that exists in the pricing.
You're right...business is business...but in the end respect and good business practices can matter...some of these manufacturers are engaging in some pretty outrages tactics...bordering on illegal if not illegal...this is not okay regardless of what you have to say...
Cheers
You are BMW USA's customer."
Oh, give me a freakin' break!
volvomax, you're probably a good car salesman. Just stick to what you do best. I doubt you will find any supporters (outside of the car business) for your views. The ironic thing is, even the Canadian car dealers would not support your argument.
Volvomax
Please explain the following
Toyota PDI&F CAN = $1249 US =$660 SHIPPED FROM
CAMBRIDGE.
Lube Oil Filter Can 5 m Kilo US 5M miles
made in Cambridge,
Is that different between Fort Erie and Buffalo?
i am responding to a post complaining about BMW's dealership pricing policies.
since those policies are related to the import of US spec cars to Canada it is very much on topic.
Since this isn't your personal forum,that is all the justification you are going to get.
Lowering their prices is not an option...why? Because you say so? It would become a pretty damn good option for them if Canadians banned together and showed them that they are not willing to pay their [non-permissible content removed] prices....
good luck with that.
There is lots of room for them to move down in price. Tonnes of room...Period. Feel free to come off as an authority on the manufacturing perspective all you want. Nobody cares....at least in here....I go back to a question I posed to you a few posts back...you are here why? I'm not asking this to be an [non-permissible content removed] to you...I seriously am curious because you seem to be off topic.
Really?
Do have a dollar amount in mind?
Do you have an inkling of what BMW's costs are?
BMW is a German company that does business in Euro's.
For them to reprice their cars in a currency that is worth a great deal less than the Euro is asinine.
They would lose their asses, that is why it isn't going to happen.
Volvo Cars NA lost $140 MILLION alone this year on the de-valuation of the dollar.
Imagine what would happen to BMW.
BMW's costs are in Euro's,not dollars or Loonies.
BMW sells ALOT of cars in the US,so those costs can be spread over a wider range. Even so, the dollar devaluation has put a serious crimp in BMW's US profits.
BMW sells far fewer cars in Canada,so those costs are more constrained.
Plus, there are differences in taxes and tariffs,and even the specification of the cars.
What the hell does a line on a map have to do with anything? BMW sells a car in Seattle for $50,000 and the same car in Vancouver, for $80,000 because, according to your logic, BMW can "spread their costs" across all cars sold in the US? That is ridiculous. BMW can spread their costs over ALL cars sold in NORTH AMERICA; the costs of doing business in Canada are not 30 to 40% higher than the US. BMW sells more cars in New York than they do in Missoula Montana but the MSP is the same in both locations even though there are more cars to "spread their costs" across in NY - so how does that work?? Most other products that I buy in Canada are priced close to what they sell for in the US, even though the manufacturer has a bigger market in the US to "spread their costs" across. Even the manufacturers themselves don't use your goofy logic; most just chalk it up to supply and demand (a nice way of saying Canadians are willing to pay more) My gawd, either you are so stubborn that you refuse to acknowledge common sense or your simply lack it all together. Anyway, those are my final thoughts on this topic.