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Buy American?



  • cliffy1cliffy1 Posts: 3,581
    My apologies if I offended a Northern brother. I was not trying to imply that there is anything wrong with building cars in Canada. I was merely pointing out that many Americans get very worked up on the topic of "American made" while ignoring the fact that many Japanese label cars and trucks are more American than the domestics.
  • cliffy1cliffy1 Posts: 3,581
    You caught me in an exaggeration. I just checked the label on the Tacoma and Tundra. The Tunrda has 35% of its parts from North America and 50% from Japan. The Tacoma is 40% to 55% and just for comparison sake, I checked a Sienna minivan which is 60% US and 30% [non-permissible content removed]. All of these products are assembled inside our borders for domestic sale and exported abroad.

    With all due respect to our veterans (and much is due), I would love somebody to explain the patriotism behind paying money I earn for inferior quality products. I am well aware that US quality standards have been raised but it doen't take a rocket scientist to see that they still don't get it.

    As far as what company is more dedicated to the US economy, how many new factories have the domestics built in the last 15 years? Toyota has built 3 in the US and 1 in Canada plus they just completed an engine factory in West Virginia (this plant exports engines to Japan and builds the engines for all the Camrys sold in the US). Ask the people of Kentucky, West VA, Indiana and California who is more dedicated to the US worker. How many plants have been moved beyond our borders by the big 3 in the past 15 years?

    I agree that we owe a debt to our veterans. They died for our freedom but not for xenophobia. We do them a disservice to claim that because they fought in far away lands that we must buy inferior products. Waiving the flag to promote a car company is a disgrace.
  • mgdvhmanmgdvhman Posts: 4,162
    Silverado was built in Pontiac,Michigan....

    Is that canada??

    - Tim
  • cliffy1cliffy1 Posts: 3,581
    Thanks for lightening the mood. I nearly certain that Pontiac Michigan is not in Canada. Check a map and let me know.
  • obyoneobyone Posts: 8,054
    my truck has so many problems....manufactured in Fort Wayne. '00 Silverado 5 new General tires today.
  • artpartp Posts: 156
    Japan builds vehicles here to get around the import tariff. I suspect the labor in Indiana may be cheaper than in Japan (don't try and draw a conclusion here, there isn't one).

    Every company mentioned in this topic is a GLOBAL company, buying, building and selling their product in many of the worlds nations. Even the profits do not necessarily stay in the country of a manufacturers origin. Stock owners are not limited to the country where they are traded.

    Once, commerce shared political borders. Those days are going quick. If any effort is needed on this subject it's to get every country to open its markets to free trade.
  • RoclesRocles Posts: 985
    The Marshall plan was devised to help bolster the US economy. We needed exports to survive and still do. This country has always had exports and alway will. Name me one country in history that hasn't used exports for growth.
    As a natural-born citizen, it is my God and Contitutional RIGHT to [non-permissible content removed]. Who challenges this? WHO? If you do, then you know nothing of this country. The president and PC thinkers are what is wrong with this country, not which truck you buy. What a bunch of naive people.....
    I was a Marine and now a roofer (which some feel is the same line of work) and own many US-made trucks. I also own other products that weren't American origin--which has never bothered me.
    Jingoism never works when dollars are at issue. If you feel better because it says:DODGE and made in Mexico then so be it. Just make sure you don't wear you're Pakistan-made shirt to bed.
    Practice what you preach and then I'll respect you. There are options to foreign-made items--even if unseemingly possible. Trust me. Curtis Mathes ring a bell??? Until then, give it a rest.

    Now stop looking through that Korean-made monitor!!! ;)
  • RoclesRocles Posts: 985
    your----not you're
  • artpartp Posts: 156
    That Korean made monitor "line" is mine Roc.

    BTW I happen to totally agree with you.
  • My father was a Marine who saw action in the pacific during W.W.2.He was as American as you could get he loved this country and I will remember him this day.BUT...he loved his TOYOTA!!He said the reason he fought was so Americans today COULD buy whay they wan't THAT IS TRUE FREEDOM.You so called patriots that think that buying an American pick-up somehow makes you a true American are nothing but shallow,phoney wanna-be's.Buy what makes you happy and proud.I love Toyotas because they ARE great automobiles.I wish this country would make something other then junk,until they do Ill stick to the Japanese.
  • mgdvhmanmgdvhman Posts: 4,162
    Is not in Canada??

    Well I've lived in Michigan all my life...and I could swear it was Canada??


    That's odd...

    Is Fort Wayne Canada too?

    - Tim
  • You guys whose reason for buying American trucks is because your uncles and granddads were killed and tortured overseas 50 years ago ... think about this. A little more than 100 years ago, the Union Army was killing my great-granddads and great-great uncles down here in the South. Using the logic you present here, I should not buy from companies based in Detroit. So I guess we Southerners have to choose between two evils, huh? Gosh, we've even got an evil FORD TRUCK plant right here in Virginia!!! Arggghhhh!!!
  • I drive a Dodge. It was built in Michigan. I live in Canada. When living in Europe I have driven French, Italian, German and at one point Malaysian. My son drives Japanese (Suzuki). I have owned Honda motorcycles.

    I have seen conflict and I have lost close friends. My father still suffers from injuries he received in battle.

    My background is offered only to show that I have no bigotry, though maybe I have cause according to the arguments of some on this topic.

    My views on the Tundra have been well documented in other topics, I would never buy one. However this is not based upon it being built by a Japanese company. I want a truck that is built safely, and will do the job that it is designed to do. I care that my axles aren't going to collapse, I care that my wheel nuts don't shear. I don't care where they are made.

    The assembly of a truck is almost irrelevant in terms of cost, the actual person hours it takes in any modern plant is minimal. We should all be glad that foreign companies are investing in North America, we should all be glad that American companies are investing elsewhere.

    But let's remember one thing - none of the companies care about anything other than their profits. Everything else is driven by that. Japanese car companies got a tremendous amount of credit around 15 years ago for investing huge amounts of money in NE England. They built huge plants and retrained recently unemployed shipyard workers. Why did they do it - because the UK government gave them huge subsidies that are still being enjoyed to this day.

    Why do US companies invest in plants in South America - because labor is cheaper, and there are fewer union rules which make it cheaper for new initiatives to be implemented.

    If you feel more comfortable buying US then I respect that, but their appears to be huge disagreement on what is American - is it a US company regardless of where built, or is it a foreign truck built in US.

    And here's another thought that no one has yet mentioned. Both here in Canada and in the US the countries are as great as they are because of immigrants. Just look at the percentage of South American, European (myself included) and Asian immigrants in both countries. They (we) have contributed huge amounts to North America - are we any less American or Canadian just because we were born elsewhere?

    OK so it was nearer .05, but I feel better for it.
  • doudisdoudis Posts: 45
    Ok guys I agree that buying strictly American is next to impossible. Here something that has always stuck with me. I grew up in Detroit (Taylor, MI) so yes I'm biased. Anyway one day they were interviewing Lee Iaccoa about how the [non-permissible content removed] got to where they are in the world market. He basically said that they have spent the last 40 years or so using their resource such as scientist, manufacturing, research etc. to build products to enhance the pleasures of life, Sony Toyota etc. He further stated that in our country those recourses were directed towards building a better bomb, enhancing the military etc.!! Is this a choice we made? No I don't think so. If we didn't do what we did we'd probably still be entrenched in the cold war or worse. That interview was done in about 1980. I'm trying to accept the [non-permissible content removed] products for what they are but I just can't justify buying them as long as GM or Ford have a decent product to choose from. God bless America. You all have the right to buy whatever you want. Why do you post here? I post in an attempt to convice people to be patroitic and buy American whenever possible. Do you feel a little guilty maybe?
  • scape2scape2 Posts: 4,124
    There is no such thing as "American" any longer. Toyota, GM, Ford, Honda, whomever build/buy parts and aftermarket parts from vendors all over the United States and the world at that. The car industry used to play a huge role in economics, not any longer, those days are gone, long gone.
    I buy the BEST product for the money I earn. heck, I work for a Japanese company but own two "
    American" cars. I have visited Japan on several occassions for training. The Japanese people are an isolated society and they like it that way. Diversity is not their way. And yes, I have run into Japanese folks who hate Americans with a passion. But at the same time we have folks here that feel the same towards the Japanese. In the same I have run into Japanese who are polite, humble and extremely gracious. We live in the best country in the world. We have so many products to choose from its like a candy store with the car market. When Japanese come here to the U.S. they immediatly want to shop. They want to see the aisles and aisles of products to choose from.
    One country I would be afraid of, very afraid of is China. We are feeding a Giant with our dollars. A Giant I believe someday will take a swing at us. I do try, try very hard not to buy products made in China.
  • RoclesRocles Posts: 985
    Guilt? I don't know.....Do you have any guilt going to a discount store and buy clothing made by virtual servants with American flags but really made in America Samoa where labor laws are null and void? Our own territories are exempt from our labor laws--guilt? Do you have any guilt for buying an American truck without demanding that it's made here and not in Mexico? Canada? Does anyone here have any guilt for owning mutual funds that contain companies that make products overseas? Does your 401k plan have any guilt? Does your broker? Do you have any guilt when hooking up your trailer to your Japanese-made wiring? Any guilt yet? Any guilt in buying food from a major whore in Food processing like Archer Daniels while the independent farmer gets shafted? ANy guilt? DO you have any guilt from buying gas from a station that pays their employees 6/hour and reap huge profits but claims they can't pay 8?!!?? Does anyone have any guilt for chemicals made from resources from overseas? Hell, most of our oil is FOREIGN!!! WE SHOULD SUPPORT OUR TEXAS AND ALASKAN OILMEN!!!! WHY Give profits to the Arabs???

    Life gets complicated if one opens their eyes to a hyprocritical buying philosophy.

    doudis.....any guilt?

  • cliffy1cliffy1 Posts: 3,581
    Why do we post here? Because that is the topic you silly person. Isn't the idea to exchange different views of a particular topic or do we all need to sit around waiving a flag with blinders on?
  • hall2hall2 Posts: 40
    My monitor is an IBM but it is made by SONY (Japanese). My mouse is an IBM, but it is manufacture in CHINA. Isn't IBM an American Company? I guess I'm a patriotic American since I buy American product.
  • RoclesRocles Posts: 985
    Of course I own "domestic" trucks--name me one company other than the big 3 to fill my needs? I own many "American" products--probably more than you. Most of my tools are American in origin as well as many of my home products.
    Did your comment get to me? Sure--Why? Well, I find it laughable that I should feel ANY guilt buying what I like, regardless of origin. By the way, it is NOT impossible to go through life and buy Foreign. Hard but not impossible for my TV--CM.
    Do I like to fight? No, not really but ignorant statements get to me and I tend to voice my opinion. I feel its the "American" way! If you saw me in real-life, most here would state that I would be the ultimate poster-boy for USA-made goods. Hell, I could be the true working-class hero done "good" for a tv movie!
    Let's see: grew up in NC rather poor and joined the Marines, realized that it sucked and followed a girl to Philly and got dumped--went to college at night (St.Joe's) while slumming during the day with a union-roofer job. (fun--that's when I started to hate unions) Got out of college and became enlightened (and empowered) to start my own firm (me and my brother) and began shingling. I busted my [non-permissible content removed] for around ten years until my buisness was big enough to help put a roof on the Mellon Bank center where I discovered my future wife. Yada Yada Yada............Look me up--it's real, unlike some others here.....

    I'm full-blooded American. I have earned every right to buy what I want--no matter of origin. To me, it's principle, I don't knock people for doing it although I tend not to myself. I don't "pick" fights, rather, I defend captialism and a free economy--which I have benefited from. I also can't stand jingoism, this is what happens when you wake up and realize that the libertarian party isn't as cooky as you once thought....

  • mznmzn Posts: 727
    May I say a belated thank you for the kind words said about veterans? Yes, veterans are largely forgotten and as a female veteran with a service-connected disability, I can tell you that I'm positively invisible.

    carlady/roving host
  • RoclesRocles Posts: 985
    You are not invisible to me. As a veteran myself, I salute all women, home and abroad, that have helped our country's efforts.

    I, of all people, don't need a history lesson. I understand the pain of the auto-industry in Detroit but could you take the blinders off and stop hiding behind the flag?
    The Marshal plan was developed to help us out. This country dove into a recession after WW2 and needed markets to export to. We have thrived as a nation on exports and trade. I find it hypocritical to forward a message to other countries that we should only buy our products and they should as well!
    I understand why your grand-dad won't buy Japanese--that makes sense. But what of future generations? Do we hold grudges and further this mythology further? Do see what happens when old grudges continue to fester? Kosovo? Ceylon? Pakistan/India? Northern Ireland? Israel/Palestine and etc.....?
    I'm not advocating open, free arms greeting every country. We should demand and enforce fair trade and use it as a weapon if needed as times may dictate. I just don't like unilaterally railing against a country(Japan) 54 years after the surrender was signed. Being from N.C.--should I hold grudges against the North? Do we need a history lesson on how cruely a country can treat it's own "citizens"?
    Unions had purpose at one time. However, today there are laws and policies in the books and work enviroment that renders their existence almost anachronistic. I expierenced laziness and a horrible "us versus them" attitude towards their employers. These socialism-based groups give any hard worker a bad name in their ranks.
    What am I trying to get at? Sure, buying US-made goods is great but only if it makes economic sense. Don't buy something simply of origin but of value/quality/cost are all factored in. Most of the time, when this system is used the US-made goods are bought anyway. I just hate blind buying in the name of our country.

    dudis, we'll have to agree to disagree.

  • doudisdoudis Posts: 45
    You are making alot of sense. I do not have time to talk now so have a nice day.
  • barlitzbarlitz Posts: 752
    You are probably right in a lot of your veiws,but did you know that Japan doesn't import hardly any american products when they start importing more of ours then maybe I'll buy theirs,and also with the unions if it wasn't for them we'd all be making minimum wage they fight for fair working agreements and better qualities of life.I worked nonunion for years and had to fight for everything, literelly had to quit to get healthcare benefits.Had my profit sharing money taking away,and as you get older you get replaced by somebody younger and you have no place to go.These are my veiws and they probably only matter to me,but its just the way I feel.
  • RoclesRocles Posts: 985
    I understand the trade disparity. Does this make me a gung-ho, jingoist though? No. I don't feel Japan is on the up and up.
    Unions had their place in American history but are nothing more than socialist organizations today. Sorry, it's only my opinion. The roofer union here in Philly is notorious for lazy workers and crappy relations with the actual employers. As an Electrician, I would think that you're job is safe. What young guy would replace you? It's different if you were an Ironworker or Roofer. Most money in dues are given to idiots that profit on your earnings. I have made more money on my own than any union could provide me.
    Are you familiar with roofing? Take shingling for instance: How many squares could (and would) a union-boy do versus how much a real roofer can do in a reasonable 8 hour day? I'd bet one thousand dollars today if anyone can take the union-boys side. Hell, Make it Ten thousand--payable with a cashier's check. They won't because it would force the other idiots to keep up and it detracts the purpose of the union which is to keep every job and worker "equal".
    American? Unions? Not very American. For the people who say you can't [non-permissible content removed]- to go to another country---I got one. Anyone who is union: Say a prayer for Lenin--same damn ideas......How is it not? There is no incentive to be a better worker in the union system. Period. this is why I started my own buisness. The laws are on the books, now get rid of those socialist factions.

  • barlitzbarlitz Posts: 752
    Well right now the union is working for me,up in boston it looks good for the next 6 to 10 years,the benefit package is unbeatable,health, pension,annuity.I will admit there are guys who take advantage and don't realize how good they got it,and when times get slow they are the first to go.I've always had good work habits and I'm always thriving to improve myself, I think my own business is my next step.I respect your opinion and everybody elses.

    PS: I need to have my roof reshingled how would I know if I get a good estimate?Is there anaverage price per bundle installed and also I have one layer of shingles now should I have them stripped or go over them?
  • scape2scape2 Posts: 4,124
    I can go on and on about Unions. Frankly I don't like them. They cause higher prices and less competition and are only good for a certain few. Unions are no longer needed in my opinion. I knew a guy at Freighliner who claimed he was being paid about 50K a year to inspect paint jobs on finished trucks, his brother was being paid about $18 an hour to clean trucks! This is outragous in my book.
    I am neither pro or anti U.S./Japanese. I do however believe in fair competition. Someone claimed we don't sell very many goods to Japan. This is true in a sense. I have visited Japan and their quality of life is terrible in comparision to ours. We have so many products to choose from, so many services, so many cars. Japan is a very closed society and they pay a very high price for it. I went to the HardRock Cafe in Nagoya Japan. And for a Burger/fries and a beer it was almost 20$ U.S.!! Frankly they can have their closed society and high taxes/tarriffs. God, I love the USA.
  • I too was at the Hardrock Cafe in Nagoya back in 1987 and 1988. Also went to Hardrock Cafe in Mainland.

    It is true. The living conditions for most in Japan are subpar in comparison to the US. Everything of luxury is at a VERY HIGH PRICE and even necessities are a commodity.

    I too am glad I don't have to live in their society.
  • RoclesRocles Posts: 985

    A few questions about your house need to be answered first. What is the condition of the roof right now? Is it just old (12-15) and needs replacing or is it older and neglected with interior problems?
    I have yet to expierence any code in state/county/township/city L&I divisons that don't allow two layers for traditional asphalt shingles. This is a big question though; removal of existing layer will impact your cost. The next thing you should do is measure (roughly) your house, ie-roof, dimensions and figure out how many squares you have. I always price by square-I could figure out bundle price for you if you give me the dimensions.
    The price is for shingling only. Trash removal is a factor as is any additional needs such as flashing/tar/drip edges/roof vents, etc....
    Give me more details and without looking I can give you a ballpark figure. Boston? I think they may charge more there as well--higher standard of living? Just wondering.....

  • RoclesRocles Posts: 985
    Hey! Where's 63?

    I forgot to tell my hidden post who it was for!! 65 is for you.....
  • barlitzbarlitz Posts: 752
    Thank you for the advice and I will come up with some measurements and other info over the holiday weekend and post them on this site.
    To the other responses,I am surprised that Japan lives in a closed society, I've never been there but you would think they'd live a lifestyle similiar to the USA.They do make some nice products and you'd think they were a rich country,maybe there's a select few over there who have all the money.
This discussion has been closed.