Buy American?



  • RoclesRocles Member Posts: 982
    You are not invisible to me. As a veteran myself, I salute all women, home and abroad, that have helped our country's efforts.

    I, of all people, don't need a history lesson. I understand the pain of the auto-industry in Detroit but could you take the blinders off and stop hiding behind the flag?
    The Marshal plan was developed to help us out. This country dove into a recession after WW2 and needed markets to export to. We have thrived as a nation on exports and trade. I find it hypocritical to forward a message to other countries that we should only buy our products and they should as well!
    I understand why your grand-dad won't buy Japanese--that makes sense. But what of future generations? Do we hold grudges and further this mythology further? Do see what happens when old grudges continue to fester? Kosovo? Ceylon? Pakistan/India? Northern Ireland? Israel/Palestine and etc.....?
    I'm not advocating open, free arms greeting every country. We should demand and enforce fair trade and use it as a weapon if needed as times may dictate. I just don't like unilaterally railing against a country(Japan) 54 years after the surrender was signed. Being from N.C.--should I hold grudges against the North? Do we need a history lesson on how cruely a country can treat it's own "citizens"?
    Unions had purpose at one time. However, today there are laws and policies in the books and work enviroment that renders their existence almost anachronistic. I expierenced laziness and a horrible "us versus them" attitude towards their employers. These socialism-based groups give any hard worker a bad name in their ranks.
    What am I trying to get at? Sure, buying US-made goods is great but only if it makes economic sense. Don't buy something simply of origin but of value/quality/cost are all factored in. Most of the time, when this system is used the US-made goods are bought anyway. I just hate blind buying in the name of our country.

    dudis, we'll have to agree to disagree.

  • doudisdoudis Member Posts: 45
    You are making alot of sense. I do not have time to talk now so have a nice day.
  • barlitzbarlitz Member Posts: 752
    You are probably right in a lot of your veiws,but did you know that Japan doesn't import hardly any american products when they start importing more of ours then maybe I'll buy theirs,and also with the unions if it wasn't for them we'd all be making minimum wage they fight for fair working agreements and better qualities of life.I worked nonunion for years and had to fight for everything, literelly had to quit to get healthcare benefits.Had my profit sharing money taking away,and as you get older you get replaced by somebody younger and you have no place to go.These are my veiws and they probably only matter to me,but its just the way I feel.
  • RoclesRocles Member Posts: 982
    I understand the trade disparity. Does this make me a gung-ho, jingoist though? No. I don't feel Japan is on the up and up.
    Unions had their place in American history but are nothing more than socialist organizations today. Sorry, it's only my opinion. The roofer union here in Philly is notorious for lazy workers and crappy relations with the actual employers. As an Electrician, I would think that you're job is safe. What young guy would replace you? It's different if you were an Ironworker or Roofer. Most money in dues are given to idiots that profit on your earnings. I have made more money on my own than any union could provide me.
    Are you familiar with roofing? Take shingling for instance: How many squares could (and would) a union-boy do versus how much a real roofer can do in a reasonable 8 hour day? I'd bet one thousand dollars today if anyone can take the union-boys side. Hell, Make it Ten thousand--payable with a cashier's check. They won't because it would force the other idiots to keep up and it detracts the purpose of the union which is to keep every job and worker "equal".
    American? Unions? Not very American. For the people who say you can't [non-permissible content removed]- to go to another country---I got one. Anyone who is union: Say a prayer for Lenin--same damn ideas......How is it not? There is no incentive to be a better worker in the union system. Period. this is why I started my own buisness. The laws are on the books, now get rid of those socialist factions.

  • barlitzbarlitz Member Posts: 752
    Well right now the union is working for me,up in boston it looks good for the next 6 to 10 years,the benefit package is unbeatable,health, pension,annuity.I will admit there are guys who take advantage and don't realize how good they got it,and when times get slow they are the first to go.I've always had good work habits and I'm always thriving to improve myself, I think my own business is my next step.I respect your opinion and everybody elses.

    PS: I need to have my roof reshingled how would I know if I get a good estimate?Is there anaverage price per bundle installed and also I have one layer of shingles now should I have them stripped or go over them?
  • scape2scape2 Member Posts: 4,124
    I can go on and on about Unions. Frankly I don't like them. They cause higher prices and less competition and are only good for a certain few. Unions are no longer needed in my opinion. I knew a guy at Freighliner who claimed he was being paid about 50K a year to inspect paint jobs on finished trucks, his brother was being paid about $18 an hour to clean trucks! This is outragous in my book.
    I am neither pro or anti U.S./Japanese. I do however believe in fair competition. Someone claimed we don't sell very many goods to Japan. This is true in a sense. I have visited Japan and their quality of life is terrible in comparision to ours. We have so many products to choose from, so many services, so many cars. Japan is a very closed society and they pay a very high price for it. I went to the HardRock Cafe in Nagoya Japan. And for a Burger/fries and a beer it was almost 20$ U.S.!! Frankly they can have their closed society and high taxes/tarriffs. God, I love the USA.
  • unixgodunixgod Member Posts: 91
    I too was at the Hardrock Cafe in Nagoya back in 1987 and 1988. Also went to Hardrock Cafe in Mainland.

    It is true. The living conditions for most in Japan are subpar in comparison to the US. Everything of luxury is at a VERY HIGH PRICE and even necessities are a commodity.

    I too am glad I don't have to live in their society.
  • RoclesRocles Member Posts: 982

    A few questions about your house need to be answered first. What is the condition of the roof right now? Is it just old (12-15) and needs replacing or is it older and neglected with interior problems?
    I have yet to expierence any code in state/county/township/city L&I divisons that don't allow two layers for traditional asphalt shingles. This is a big question though; removal of existing layer will impact your cost. The next thing you should do is measure (roughly) your house, ie-roof, dimensions and figure out how many squares you have. I always price by square-I could figure out bundle price for you if you give me the dimensions.
    The price is for shingling only. Trash removal is a factor as is any additional needs such as flashing/tar/drip edges/roof vents, etc....
    Give me more details and without looking I can give you a ballpark figure. Boston? I think they may charge more there as well--higher standard of living? Just wondering.....

  • RoclesRocles Member Posts: 982
    Hey! Where's 63?

    I forgot to tell my hidden post who it was for!! 65 is for you.....
  • barlitzbarlitz Member Posts: 752
    Thank you for the advice and I will come up with some measurements and other info over the holiday weekend and post them on this site.
    To the other responses,I am surprised that Japan lives in a closed society, I've never been there but you would think they'd live a lifestyle similiar to the USA.They do make some nice products and you'd think they were a rich country,maybe there's a select few over there who have all the money.
  • unixgodunixgod Member Posts: 91
    No, the Japanese get tons of tax breaks to come to the US and open up businesses, namely the banking and insurance industries (the richest businesses in the US)! They are rich in "our" country because of our cheesy gov't. Why should they continue to live in subpar conditions in japan when they can take over the US?

    Its a sad sad thing.
  • stangdudestangdude Member Posts: 8
    Ripple effect was explained to me when I was a sales rep for Toyota some years ago. The fact is
    when you buy an American car from an American based company It causes a "ripple effect" in our economy. The sale pays lots of people who live and work here in the US. From the assembly line
    to the showroom sales staff. The ripple effect is often double your dollars spent.
    Sure [non-permissible content removed] companys say "Built In the US" but the BULK of the profit winds up in a Bank in Japan.
    If the [non-permissible content removed]'s spent some of the GOLD here anywhere
    near the volume we do with them, our economic troubles would be far and few.
    American automakers were really sleeping in the 70's and 80's but they have really done the work
    these days....ask and owner.....Drive one for yourself....
  • daniel40daniel40 Member Posts: 34
    Ok Ok, I know a lot of people out there are
    not going to agree with this, but who cares
    I don't. If the American companies could see
    through my eyes they would be a lot more prosperous, partly due to the fact I am 20 years
    old and will be in the market for a compact truck
    soon. What they fail to realize is that most
    people don't buy compact pickups to haul things.
    Sure we want a little capablility to haul but
    not necessarily 6,000lbs. WE WANT AN O.R.V. (off-
    road vehicle). You see young males like myself
    want a compact pickup because it is manly. We
    don't want to buy an SUV because we don't have
    familys and there trendy anyways and besides most
    people who have SUV's don't even take them off-road they take them to the mall. We don't won't
    to look cute in a little RAV4 or honda CRV. But
    we want off-road capablilties. you see Dodge-
    good idea with the v-8 but its too big and a
    gas guzzler. Chevy good but poor build quality.
    Ford Ranger good but underpowered. Toyota Tacoma
    PERFECT - but I don't want to buy a Japanese car
    or Truck. But a lot of people in my generation
    don't care anymore so I suggest the "BIG 3" wise
    up and Revise your compact pickups and gear
    them to be light, fuel-efficient, yet powerful
    offroading machines!!!!!!!!!!
  • andy_jordanandy_jordan Member Posts: 764
    I will do my very best to ensure that all of the manufacturers are made aware of your views - I am sure that it will be a real insight to them.

    You say most SUVs never go off road - you gotta be kidding. Jeez all of us old guys thought that they lived off road, guess I'll have to look around at the mall next time.

    20 year old boys want to look manly - get away, now you're pulling our legs right - you mean you don't want to drive a lilac neon.

    Well here are some real insights. None of the car manufacturers are basing their new investments on 20 year old single men. Why, because most can't afford new vehicles.

    The Dakota V8 a gas guzzler - no. It is about 1 mpg less than the V6. Ford Ranger underpowered - now hang on - the V6 is underpowered, the V8 is a gas guzzler. Tacoma is perfect - well until someone hits you from the side I guess.

    I don't mean to be patronising, but I really think that corporate America, and Japan, have a better idea of what they are doing than one 20 year old kid.
  • afs11afs11 Member Posts: 86
    When you all talk about US & Japan, is Canada & Mexico in the USA camp? Ontario produces almost as many cars & trucks as Mich. USA.
  • devontiedevontie Member Posts: 35
    I think people should by the best vehicle available no matter where its made. That is the only way to keep U.S. Auto makers competitive. If you buy american no matter what there is no incentive for US auto makers to improve the quaility of their product.
  • mgdvhmanmgdvhman Member Posts: 4,157
    They still have each other to battle against.

    Unless there is only one Manufacturer....they will be improving and be competitive..

    My 2.6975425 cents worth..

    - Tim
  • mgdvhmanmgdvhman Member Posts: 4,157
    But I still hold my opinion.

    yeah...We help keep Americans working in Foreign co. plants here in the US...But the REAL huge chunk of the profit goes....Bye ByE!!

    To never be seen again in this Country..

    The $$ that goes back farr greater than the Money that the workers take home..

    Perhaps we could wake up and stop buying these Imports...and all those workers could go to work for the big new plants that would open if the Imports would go away?

    It's no secret...I hate import cars..

    - Tim
  • afs11afs11 Member Posts: 86

    What does a truck built in Oshawa, Ontario classify as? Foreign or American???

    I always wonder when Americans start the buy USA chant!
  • blindblind Member Posts: 1
    I was about to buy a new Dodge ram 2500 4X4 when I found it was built in mexico. If I wanted an import, I would have gone to Toyota. Seems like all manufacturers are moving production where it is cheapest, which is their option. But it is my option to reject the product as well.
  • mgdvhmanmgdvhman Member Posts: 4,157


    - Tim
  • scape2scape2 Member Posts: 4,124
    Although many of you know me, I am not an import basher. I believe strongly in competition, fair competition. What many fail to see is that the Japanese govt. subsidises their car industry. In America where we have a far more open market this would be unheard of. Our standard of living here in the U.S. is astronimical in comparison to Japan. They pay extremly high prices for goods we take for granted everyday.
    I believe if it weren't for Toyota/Honda/Nissan or whomever quality/reliability of cars would have stagnated or not climbed as fast as it has in just the last 10 years.
    China is a whole other story. I won't buy made in China. We are feeding a giant folks. Learn and read about this very volitile govt. One day this giant is going to take a swing at the U.S. and its going to hurt, believe me.
  • sovercash1sovercash1 Member Posts: 112
    China is one of the nations that if we where to start something with. We would be sorry. they have so many people they could just keep sending them. steve
  • RoclesRocles Member Posts: 982
    China is the 400lb gorilla that Clinton won't challenge. You must challenge them now while we can afford to; otherwise we'll have a big problem in the future.
    With that said, it is the average slug-dummy American who continues to buy goods at Wal-Mart and the like which continue to fuel China. Everyone here can talk a good game but you are all bull-sh*tters. Don't buy the cheap stuff. Get some discipline and apply it! I don't include Japan because they are no where close to China is when it comes to human rights. PUT YOUR MONEY WHERE YOU'RE MOUTH IS!!!!!!
    I buy foreign made goods but they include Japan and Europe--how about you? Where was your shirt made? Pants? Shoes? You will continue to feed the dragon despite any "tough" rhetoric so where's the beef??
    I proudly own Honda generators(best made--any challenge?) along with my American-made Bostichs but origin had no say in the matter--only QUALITY.
  • tp4unctp4unc Member Posts: 437
    You've got my vote for Honda generators. Their small engines are second to NONE!!
  • mgdvhmanmgdvhman Member Posts: 4,157
    ..Aren't those the same engine that goes in Import trucks and cars?

    The Honda Tindra?.

    I think I seen a pull cord coming out the fender of the last Tindra i saw??


    Ginsu's anyone?

    - Tim
  • unixgodunixgod Member Posts: 91
    You are too much dude! You're response was what I needed to brighten my day!
  • mgdvhmanmgdvhman Member Posts: 4,157
    to #85??

    Must have been too friendly of a response??

    - Tim
  • tp4unctp4unc Member Posts: 437
    You're not a Briggs guy are you?
  • mgdvhmanmgdvhman Member Posts: 4,157
    The other Tindra Engine??...Right??

    - Tim
  • RoclesRocles Member Posts: 982
    Oh man......if one has to buy a small motor from the states make it a Tecumseh or Kohler!! Briggs? GASP!!
  • unixgodunixgod Member Posts: 91
    not trying to start an arguement, but the Tecumsah is made by Briggs and Stratton plant. Look at documentation on a Craftsman lawnmower. It is a Tecumsah engine, but the manufacturer info, parts replacement, etc. are all from Briggs and Stratton.

    The Tecumsah is just the Oldsmobile or the Lincoln in comparison to the Chevy or Ford.
  • unixgodunixgod Member Posts: 91
    they have changed hands in the last few years.
  • mgdvhmanmgdvhman Member Posts: 4,157
    We have gone from trucks to Lawnmowers??

    What's next?...Knitting?

    ...Trucklover would have to be the authority on that one!


    - Tim
  • daniel40daniel40 Member Posts: 34
    Well I put a post up within the last twenty,
    some dude says the auto makers don't care
    what some 20 year old "boy" wants in a vehicle.
    Well this "boy" happens to be stationed overseas
    and works for the U.S. military. He is thinking
    of taking all of the "taxpayers" money he earned
    and buy a Toyota Tacoma. He really doesn't
    believe America can build a compact truck that
    can compete with the Tacoma. He was considering
    a Ranger but decides that there not powerful or
    off-road worthy enough. Doesn't it really hurt
    to find out that an American fighting for the
    country doesn't believe the country can build
    him a competent compact pickup? You don't even
    want to know what my opinion would be if we get into it with China.
  • unixgodunixgod Member Posts: 91
    "You don't even want to know what my opinion would be if we get into it with China."

    We don't want to know your opinion on "anything".

    Have fun driving that overrated, overpriced, thin sheetmetal, use once engine, poorest crash test scoring, no true locking differential, cheap interior, uncomfortable seating, no extended cab access, foreign country supporting pos truck.

    Oh, but that Turd sticker sure looks good, don't it? Too bad that sticker costs you as much as a real full sized truck that can actually do some work, tow a trailer, and get the same or better fuel economy as your wannabeatruck Tacoma.

    How about the cylinder heads that can't hold their own cylinder pressure and blow head gaskets before the engine is even broke in? Yep, Tacoma!
    Great overpriced truck.

    3rd MAW, HMH 363 Heavy Helicopter Squadron
    1st MAW, HMH 363, Futenma, Okinawa, Japan

    Zipperheads don't even treat the Marines that protect their lame country worth anything. They hold grudges against the US for the 1940's. Well, we did it once, and in my opinion, we should do it again, only do it final this time.
  • scape2scape2 Member Posts: 4,124
    In all seriousness, China is no joke. I ask my friends/family not to buy made in China and explain to them how hostile, inhuman the Chinese government is. Their human rights record is pathetic, yet we still give them preferd trade status. I don't buy made in China. I will buy made in Japan, Indonesia, Mexico, Germany.....
  • daniel40daniel40 Member Posts: 34
    Hey buddy the mil ain't what it used to be.
    Were undermanned! New countries are blowing
    up nukes, nobody likes us, McFly.... McFly are
    you there?
  • afs11afs11 Member Posts: 86

    I agree with you 110%. I am not a citizen of the United States, but I really appreciate ALL the US military service people. I don't know what my country would have done without the US military to protect all of us. A big northern THANK YOU AMERICA!

    As far as China, I wouldn't trust them as far as I could spit! One more thing that bothers me is the way that France & some other so called friendly countries reguard the USA. They didn't mind the help just over 50 years ago, did they!

  • obyoneobyone Member Posts: 7,841
    I thought this topic was about buying American versus foreign made trucks. Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't believe that China manufactures or markets trucks in the US of A.
  • unixgodunixgod Member Posts: 91
    Dispite our differences in truck preferences (Ford Vs. Chevy), this is one thing I agree wholeheartedly with you on.

    I sure hope this guy isn't a Marine. What a disgrace that would be to the brotherhood of the Corps!
  • daniel40daniel40 Member Posts: 34
    I am a punk you say, just because I don't
    like American trucks and don't believe America
    builds quality cars and trucks not. Just because
    I believe that does not affect my feelings for
    the country. The fact is, the Japanese do
    everything with precision. They are worried
    about the details, unlike many Americans who
    are only worried about "how much more can I get".
    Well let me tell you something, I want quality
    not quantity. It seems you (unixgod) are more
    interested in big full size trucks, like duallies.
    I am not, I believe that a lot of people who
    drive trucks like that a)don't need them
    b)don't care about the enviroment. If you need
    it to do work fine, but on plenty of occasions
    I have seen people who have these trucks that
    don't need them. And no I am not in the Marines
    thank god. You say you were in the golf war
    (unixgod) well you probably saw my kind in the
    Air above your head, don't forget what really
    won that war, I am sorry you had no "beach"
    to storm.
  • barlitzbarlitz Member Posts: 752
    I'm sorry but I do not find any foriegn truck to be more reliable than mine, and I am not gonna start bashing the japanese or any other foriegn country.But I will say I am very proud to be an american and I will say I would support my country in any way possible.
  • unixgodunixgod Member Posts: 91
    "You say you were in the golf war
    (unixgod) well you probably saw my kind in the
    Air above your head, don't forget what really
    won that war, I am sorry you had no "beach"
    to storm."

    You are an idiot. The Air Force is the "least utilized" branch of service the US has. They have never "won any battle or any war" for the United States.

    The Marine and Navy Airwing have more battle planes and see way more air combat than the Air Force.

    The Department of the Navy won the Gulf War, i.e. Marines being part of the Department of the Navy.

    Were you even in Middle School by then?
  • daniel40daniel40 Member Posts: 34
    hey unix, have you ever heard of the Stealth
    Bomber or Fighter? How about the F-16? Didn't
    we knock out all of Iraq's communication lines,
    radar sites? Did you even watch the news on
    Kosovo, did the Marines come in and plant bombs
    on major supply lines, no I don't think so. How
    many B-52's do those squids have, can bombers
    even take off from air craft carriers? I know
    you Navy and Marine (your trying to link yourself
    to them in your last post, your a branch of the
    Navy anyways) like real tight sleeping quarters
    with other guys, oh by the way how is it pissing
    with another guy, did you play swords?
  • unixgodunixgod Member Posts: 91
    the communist Air Force [non-permissible content removed]!
  • modvptnlmodvptnl Member Posts: 1,352
    Looks like some one really struck a nerve. Tight sleeping quarters!!!! Ha! Ha! Must of brought back horrible memories being the little marine play thing for all those Big strong Navy guys.
  • unixgodunixgod Member Posts: 91
    Was never on a ship, so I wouldn't know. You seem to know all about it though. Please do not share with us your homosexual encounters. We don't care to hear about your fantasies with Naval servicemen.

    Maybe you should go back to the Tacoma topics and rub peters with all the other fags there.
  • meredithmeredith Member Posts: 575
    This topic is in POOR TASTE....

    and the majority of the posters are in violation of the Edmunds' Participants Agreement.

    This topic is frozen. It will be deleted shortly.

    Front Porch Philosopher
    SUV, Pickups, & Aftermarket and Accessories Host
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