Toyota Prius

keystone01 · June 2004

I have an '03 Prius and just calculated 53.4 MPG on my last tank. I live in NOVA and the temps have been high lately. 42 MPG is the lowest I have calculated. I drive 120 miles per day--mostly highway at 65 MPH. I love my car and have been on a waiting list for an '04 since 19 Jan '04. I expect to be called soon for my new car. I would like to know what '04 owners think about their car vice an '03. Does the '04 get better mileage? Is it worth the extra cost? I appreciate your thoughts.

john1701a · June 2004

> Does the '04 get better mileage?

Sure does!

The following is a 3-year average-by-month comparison between my 2001 Prius and my 2004 Prius, all driven in Minnesota:

JOHN

wwest · June 2004

I don't think GPS transmits TOD, Time of Day.

And if it does, it would of necessity transmit GMT in which case your car would still need to be told which time zone it resides in during clock setting.

Unless you're used to using GMT anyway.

ron1 · June 2004

Doesn't the GPS receiver have built in protocols to set the clock for it's location? AFter all, the receiver would "know" where it is!

Ron (still on the list for a #9 - since November!!!!!)

wwest · June 2004

Time zone lines would have to be a part of the DVD map information. But again, are we sure the GPS satelites actual transmit time of day in any form?

djasonw · June 2004

They do on the portable Garmin I have. Pretty nice feature when driving/flying across time zones.

taddison · June 2004

GPS signals do include the time and date, which is why I was surprised that the time wasn't displayed somewhere on the touch screen.

A GPS unit should be able to figure out automatically what time zone it's in based on location - many of them do. The unit in the Prius doesn't do this - you must manually select the time zone and daylight saving time.

mfullmer · June 2004

I have an '04 RX330 with NAV, which looks exactly like the one in the Prius. I have an option, in the NAV settings to automatically update the clock through the GPS antenna.

keystone01 · June 2004

John: Thank you for the response. I am looking forward to an '04. I love my '03, but the '04 seems to offer so much more. My wife thinks I'm crazy to want it just because it has a better arm rest, but I really think it will be a more comfortable and enjoyable driving experience. In looking at your chart, I should be in the mid-50's range here in VA--in summer temps. I admit that it doesn't make much sense to buy a new car just to get a few extra MPG, but the '04 with pkg 9 just seems to be the way to go. I drive 120 miles a day to/from work and I wnat to relax and use the A/C which I tend not to use in order to get better MPG. What color and pkg do you have? Thanks again for your response.

john1701a · June 2004

I have a Silver BC (that's package 9)... which now has 14,200 miles on it.

JOHN

m4prius · June 2004

The demand for the Prius should be enough evidence for the automakers to respond in kind and start aggressively building hybrids or very efficient vehicles and quit pushing turbo charged V8s.

midnightcowboy · June 2004

You were right. I knew it was too good to be true.

"I replied this morning. I was out of the office Sat. and Mon. My reply to you was...I made a mistake on the quote for the Prius. It should have been $26909. "

Then another reply :

"I apologize for making a mistake on your quote. The actual selling price for
the Prius is $26090.00. Please let me know what you want to do.

Thank you,
Julie"

Three different quotes, Now we are back down to MSRP, the sales lady must be blond.

YMMV,

MidCow

john1701a · June 2004

Not all hybrids are alike. (In other words, some are not as clean as you think.) These labels make identification much easier...

CARB (California Air Resources Board) defines the following categories to help you identify how clean the vehicle is (from http://www.arb.ca.gov/msprog/zevprog/factsheets/driveclean.pdf ):

LEV (Low Emission Vehicle)
The least stringent emission standard for all new cars sold in California beyond 2004.

ULEV (Ultra Low Emission Vehicle)
50% cleaner than the average new 2003 model year vehicle.

SULEV (Super Ultra Low Emission Vehicle)
90% cleaner than the average new 2003 model year vehicle.

PZEV (Partial Zero Emission Vehicle):
Meets SULEV tailpipe emission standards, has a 15-year / 150,000 mile warranty, and has zero evaporative emissions.

AT-PZEV (Advanced Technology PZEV):
Meets SULEV tailpipe emission standards, has a 15-year / 150,000 mile warranty, has zero evaporative emissions and includes advanced technology components.

ZEV (Zero Emission Vehicle):
Zero tailpipe emissions, and 98% cleaner than the average new 2003 model year vehicle.

midnightcowboy · June 2004

Why wouldn't ZEV : Zero be infinitely cleaner that average 2003 emissions? Are you telling me Zero (0) isn't really zero.

However, you need to look at the big picture. Most 2003 cars are already running pretty clean emmission compared to older cars. The problem is not the 2003 cars or 2002 or 2001, but the cars that have been on the road for several years.

YMMV,

MidCow

nippononly · June 2004

just did a four seasons update on their long-term Prius, and the only complaints they have so far were also mentioned by taddison above - weak stereo, little tires that don't offer much stability, the heavy impact of crosswinds, and the lack of availability of a sunroof.

Their average mpg is 40.7, but they qualify that by saying that they are likely more lead-footed than most, and compared to other cars in their long-term fleet, that is very good. Their best mileage to date (average of three) is 48 mpg. Their worst (average of three) is 33.

They make a note that the "futuristic looks of the car" are getting mixed reviews among the staff. Apart from that, they like it a lot, apparently, especially the interior fittings and features like Smart Start (they have a #9). They specifically mention that this is a hybrid that "can get out of its own way while delivering excellent fuel economy", in other words, not short on power.

mfullmer · June 2004

I've actually thought of that hundreds of time during the last 5 or so years. While any advance we make to reduce emissions is great and needed, it's not going to make that much of a difference when "10% of the cars on the road today [Pre-1993] produce 50% of the emissions" (acterra.org "Scrapping old cars").

What we need to do is STOP allowing older cars to be registered and get them off of the road!

Of course that would not be politically correct so it will never happen. The people who contribute the least amount to our economy and our funds to clean up the Earth are polluting it the most.

ka9q · June 2004

Each GPS satellite carries a highly accurate "atomic" clock that's fundamental to how the system works. So most GPS receivers, even hand held models, give you the accurate time along with your position.

Some special GPS timing receivers are accurate to considerably less than a microsecond. They're widely used in applications that have nothing to do with navigation or positioning. An example is the CDMA digital cellular system developed by Qualcomm and used by Sprint and Verizon in the US, among others.

So the only reason why you wouldn't get an accurate time display in your auto GPS navigation system is if the system designer decided not to give it to you.

ka9q · June 2004

It would be interesting to measure the effect of a bike rack on the Prius's gas mileage. I suspect it would drop quite dramatically, as much of the Prius's fuel economy on the highway comes from its aerodynamics, not its hybrid drive train.

john1701a · June 2004

I have a ton of bike-carrying-on-a-Prius experience (and a mess of photos to prove it).

My worst experience was last spring, in a heavy ice storm. The ground was warm enough to melt the ice, but the air wasn't. Each spoke on the tires ended up almost an inch thick. That turned the bike into a parachute... a massive source of drag. I tried to forget how much it affected the MPG. But I can say the Prius handled just fine.

Another time, I got caught in an awful summer storm. The temperture dropped 30 degrees in just a few minutes and I got hit by nasty hail at 45 MPH... while riding the bike. Needless to say, I was thrilled to be able to seek refuge in the Prius. But that meant punching through the front to escape it. The Prius handled carrying the bike on back just fine then too. And the ride was quite comfortable... since I got wet and almost froze to death, I had to shed my clothing.

Anywho... under normal circumstances, you can expect a 3 to 5 MPG drop with carrying a load on back, depending on wind direction.

JOHN

Kirstie_H · June 2004

A reporter is looking for residents of states other than California who drive hybrids. Please contact jfallon@edmunds.com by Wednesday, June 16, 2004 with your daytime contact info and a few lines about your hybrid.

Kirstie_H · June 2004

A reporter is looking for residents of states other than California who drive hybrids. Please contact jfallon@edmunds.com by Wednesday, June 16, 2004 with your daytime contact info and a few lines about your hybrid.

midnightcowboy · June 2004

I'm at a loss here, since the Prius is a hatchback with rear seats that fold down, why wouldn't you just fold down the rear seats and put the bike inside?

Carbon Fiber Bikes are the best!

YMMV,

MidCow

djasonw · June 2004

Some people prefer the convenience of hanging two bikes (or one) on the back. I chucked mine in the back when I bought it two weeks ago. Easy as pie.

midnightcowboy · June 2004

Djasonw,

I agree on convenience of back. I put a trailer hicth on my car for the sole purpose of carring bikes securely at fast highway speeds and also don't have the conveninece of hatchback right now.

I meneitoned thta becuase of the concenr for mpg loss. I think John's estimate of 3-5 mpg loss might be high.

Also some of the roof racks that align the bike in the direction of the car are much more areoduynamic and would cut the mpg losss to probably only 1-2 mpg max. I am not sure if Yakima or Thule makes a roof bike rack for the Prius ... yet.

YMMV,

MidCow

moparbad · June 2004

quote- The gas-tank warning light flashed after 422 miles. I drove 10 miles to the next gas station and filled up, putting 11.1 gallons into the 11.9-gallon tank. That would indicate 38 mpg, far short of the 51 mpg government rating. The car's trip computer told me it had been getting 51.7 mpg.-end

Prius computer 51.7 mpg and actual 38 mpg Wow!

quote source- http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/2004-06-10-diesel-vs-hybrid_x- .htm

wwest · June 2004

how much "fuel" was left in the "tank" (fully charged batteries)??

Fuel burned but not yet "exhausted".

xcel · June 2004

Hi Wwest:

___If the pack were to have a full SOC when they pulled into the station to refuel, about 6 miles worth in about the best case scenario. That additional 6 miles doesnt help the calculated fuel economy much unfortunately

___Good Luck

___Wayne R. Gerdes

wwest · June 2004

that someone had reported here that they drove ~45 miles on batteries only....

Still doesn't have much impact.

pistolpete · June 2004

I HAVE A DEPOSIT ON A PRIUS AND WOULD LIKE TO KNOW WHAT OTHER OWNERS ARE GETTING FOR MILEAGE.

john1701a · June 2004

The realistic expectation for typical driving (after break-in is complete) and following the basics for efficiency (avoid 5-minute trips, use high PSI, use synthetic oil) you stand a good chance of routinely getting around 48 MPG.

Then when you begin to crave more, a heightened awareness will cause your effiency to climb. You'll gain a few more MPG. (I'm routinely getting 54 MPG now.)

JOHN

djasonw · June 2004

I tend to like to drive with the flow of traffic and I have been averaging 48 or so the last few tanks. If I were more diligent, I bet I can get close to what John1701a is getting. I'm VERY pleased with my mileage. I am getting TWICE as much as my Merc C320 and THREE times as much as my FORMER Jeep Liberty. I love my Prius.

rpgolfer · June 2004

Hi gang,
Pistolpete- Congrats on ordering your Prius! You won't be disappointed. Stay tuned to this discussion board and hopefully you'll learn so much (as I have) about this great car.
I returned from my annual trip to Oregon golf getaway. Driving up there (510 mi each way), I averaged a paltry 34 mpg. Understand that I was climbing in elevation when I got near Mt. Shasta where the elevation changes from 800 ft to over 5,000 ft above sea level in less than 40 miles. While in Central Oregon (on more level surfaces) I averaged 51 mpg just zipping from course to course. I predicted an increase on the return trip due to the dropping in elevation. According to my display screen I was getting 54 mpg. However, when I filled up again it had driven 319 miles using only 5.18 gals. That calculates to 61.58 mpg!! Why did the screen display one value when actuality (filling my tank the same way every time) shows differently? I drove 70 mph w/air cond on, level roads (I-5) and minimal stops. Not that I'm complaining, I normally average 44-46 mpg combo driving. I assume this falls in the "average" category. Anyone else have similar results?
Thanks,
Rich

rdsymmes · June 2004

Hey, guys... need some feedback on the following. Dealer has found us a 2004 gold Prius with about 6000 miles, no NAV system, but the next-level down option package, a couple of scratches and dinks that he says he'll have fixed. He bought it for $25,000, will put about $1,000 more into it, will "let" us have it for $27,500. Does this sound reasonable to you folks out there with recent buying experience?

oldboy · June 2004

MSRP for the Prius package #7 (next step down from NAV) is $23,115, including delivery! Do you really believe that the dealer paid $25,000 for a used one with a few dings, etc? Are you really so desperate to get a Prius that you would pay $27,500 for such a car? All depends on how ready you are to part with your money, but if it were me, I would have several unpleasant words for such a dealer! But then, I do not have a Prius myself. I'm willing to wait until the current buying frenzy subsides.

backy · June 2004

FWIW, there's a package 7 Prius with 8800 miles on eBay right now with a current bid of $18,600 (no reserve mentioned), about 5 days left to run. Seller is a Toyota dealer in PA; it is a Toyota Certified Pre-Owned vehicle.

gscheil1 · June 2004

Today, after driving 435 miles, the "Add Fuel" light came on and I drove about 10 more miles to a service Station. I was able to get the car to accept 10.0 gallons by adding fuel VERY SLOW. I did get some burps. I averaged 49.4 MPG., which is my best so far. I now have 4350 miles on the Odo.

quasar4 · June 2004

Today, after driving 435 miles, the "Add Fuel" light came on and I drove about 10 more miles to a service Station. I was able to get the car to accept 10.0 gallons by adding fuel VERY SLOW. I did get some burps. I averaged 49.4 MPG.

Hmmm....funny that the USAToday reporter (see post # 3216 and related discussion in the "Hybrids in the News" forum...post #68) who didn't even know the Prius had a bladder (and thus wouldn't bother with adding fuel VERY SLOWLY) managed to pump in 11.1 gallons. Has any '04 Prius owner been able to duplicate this feat??

dudleyr · June 2004

Wouldn't 445 miles on 10 gallons be 44.5 mpg, or where there more miles on that tank than 445?

john1701a · June 2004

> Has any '04 Prius owner been able to duplicate this feat??

Yes, many many many times owners have pumped over 11 gallons.

It's not a big deal.

Some, like me, never like letting any vehicle they own ever dip below the 1/4 tank mark. It's a habit you naturally pick up when having to deal with -15F temperatures.

JOHN

john1701a · June 2004

> Wouldn't 445 miles on 10 gallons be 44.5 mpg

Only if you can prove that both the previous and current fill were actually at "full".

With a bladder inside the tank, it is virtually impossible to always match that exact level. So to be accurate (and avoid any chance of misleading), you must average several tanks together.

JOHN

mackabee · June 2004

What's the average wait on one of these cars right now? I've heard 2 months, 3-6 months, 2 years, etc,. Carsdirect.com says they're Sold out! What gives?
: )

backy · June 2004

The Wall Street Journal reported the other day that six month waits are common and there are 22,000 people on waiting lists in the U.S., and many dealers have stopped taking orders. The "average" wait may be meaningless because a lot depends on what options you want (package 9 seems to be in greatest supply in my region), how picky you are about color, and your location.

quasar4 · June 2004

Yes, many many many times owners have pumped over 11 gallons.

--But did it require any special pumping skills (e.g., very slow fill)? Or as most people do, did they/you just pop the nozzle in, lock the handle to its fastest flow rate, and sit back until the pump automatically cut off?

--John, do you perchance know the size of the reserve (i.e., the amount of fuel in the tank after the "low fuel" indicator starts blinking)? Is it fairly constant?

prius4meus · June 2004

Here are my results. Although I've owned the car since 10/31/03, I did not start keeping track of the fuel gauge at fill-up until January or the ambient temp at fill-up until March. In general, I fill on the fastest setting since I do not find that a slower setting does much. On two occasions I did experiment with trickling in gas after the pump shut off. One time I squeezed in another gallon; the other time I couldn't get any more in (different pumps). For me, the extra gallon isn't worth it. Not so sure I'm ever going to see 11 gallons at fill-up.

F=flashing fuel gauge
W=repeated warning to add fuel

Date Gauge Fill Temp
11/9/2003 6.274
11/22/2003 6.278
11/27/2003 4.596
11/28/2003 6.578
11/29/2003 5.509
12/6/2003 7.183
12/13/2003 5.372
12/25/2003 8.024
1/2/2004 6.143
1/9/2004 6.37
1/21/2004 3.022
1/25/2004 2 5.668
2/2/2004 2 5.971
2/5/2004 4 4.544
2/6/2004 1F 6.544
2/8/2004 1F+W 7.402
2/11/2004 1F 5.728
2/28/2004 2 6.255
3/13/2004 1F+W 6.633
3/23/2004 1 6.2 32
4/2/2004 1F 8.2 41
4/2/2004 2 7.068
4/4/2004 2 8 37
4/4/2004 4 6.519 32
4/16/2004 1F 7.364 73
4/29/2004 1 7.03 77
5/15/2004 1F 8.001 52
5/31/2004 2 6.074 70

mackabee · June 2004

so what't that have to do with the Prius? You're preaching to the choir here.\
: )
Mackabee

eheading · June 2004

Midcow you are really lucky. I wish my problems were as simple to solve as yours! If I were you I would walk away from this forum, from anything to do with Toyota and Honda, and never look back. I don't quite understand why you're even on this forum board feeling the way you do. And believe me if I had the same experience you have had, I'd feel exactly the same way. Our personal experience has been just the exact opposite as yours.

We had a similar experience with an RV, and believe me in our house we don't even mention the name of the manufacturer. If I bought another of those motorhomes, my wife would divorce me!!

Ed Headington

rpgolfer · June 2004

Hi gang,
I've been looking at a website, www.vfaq.net, about problems with the classic Priuses and the new Priuses. One of the topics questioned was if the car were to sit unused for 2-3 weeks the 12v batt would require recharging if you didn't have someone "car sit" for you. Has anyone found this to be true? I'm planning a trip in the fall when I intend to use the "big car" ('01 LeSabre) for a trip around the United States for approx 2-3 weeks. If this is true, how about unplugging the 12v batt prior to departure?
The website describes how to undo the backup beeper (which they say is only heard INSIDE the vehicle). I changed my oil at 3k on the odo and around 4500 mi the maint req'd light came on the dashboard. The website told me how to clear the light. I plan on changing oil again at around 8k miles. My neighbor asked me why I didn't change oil around 1,000 mi or so during the initial break-in period. I told him that changing at 3k was when everyone else first did it. Is this correct? Should I have changed oil sooner? Also, is the 5k increments okay for change duration? I don't plan on driving during any dusty conditions, strictly paved roads/freeway.
Thanks,
Rich

backy · June 2004

Why not take your new Prius across the country? What a great way to fully test its capabilities (and then tell everyone how it went).

rpgolfer · June 2004

Backy,
Oh, believe me, I'm considering it! Gas in the San Francisco Bay Area is averaging $2.29/gal
Rich

quasar4 · June 2004

--The following is a quote from Goss' Garage of Motorweek that I think you'll find on point...

...you still have to keep the battery fully charged, and heres where people make a huge mistake. They kill their batteries through overcharging by using a battery charger. No matter how small the battery charger, it can destroy the battery through overcharging. --Pat Goss, Motorweek

...for more helpful hints on battery care (including unhooking the battery) go to Goss' Garage. He's talking about vehicles like snowmobiles, boats, etc., that sit in storage for long periods of time (2-3 weeks does not qualify as a long storage time), but still it may be useful.

Toyota Prius

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