"Almost every day driving to work and then driving back home. People in Texas, drive faster and more aggressive than in Minnesota."
I've been to Minneapolis for a week during business trip. I didn't rent a car there because I stayed at a hotel near a client site. My impression of crossing the street there gave me "easy going" traffic. Once again, I've never drove on highway nor city street.
I was in TX for about a week, a couple of months ago. I went to Houston space center and on my way back, I got stuck on the ever confusing highway loop during rush hour! I believe it was I45. I was going like 5mph. You call that fast? Speed limit was 65mph in the loop but increases to 75mph when going south toward space center. TX drivers are not that aggressive compare to NY drivers. Come drive in Manhattan with many yellow cabs. djasonw is doing fine in NY with his Prius.
When you say that Prius is slow, in another word, you are defining performance for everybody using your own desire(need for speed). Next time, say it in subjectively, by using "for me".
NY should be voted the aggressive driver capital of the world. I rarely drive in Manhattan but I am sure I'd do fine with the Prius there. What's nice about the Prius is it makes you a SANE driver. Who cares if it takes you 2 minutes longer to get where you're going. I still manage to make my 166 mile trip from NE PA to Long Island in 2 hours and 20 minutes. That's the same time I did when I had my WRX/Allroad/Merc C320. All those cars consumed twice the amount of fuel my Prius uses. To put in perspective how much I like this car. If someone were to say to me they'd even exchange a BMW 540 for your Prius, I'd say NO. Only way I'd agree is if I were allowed to sell the 540 and buy two Prii. To me, this car is that good. Owner satisfaction speaks volumes. Midcow disease can complain all he wants. He's just showing how foolish he really is.
We found one business that puts major miles on the roads, but with fewer costly trips to the pump than most, thanks to Houston's hybrid cars.
Kenny Riffe has one of those jobs where his car is his office. He said, "Two dollars for gas ... you want to get all you can out of your gasoline tank."
In a climate where fuel surcharges are becoming more commonplace and companies are feeling the pinch at the pump, one business is not guzzling gas, but banking on saving -- the city of Houston.
Al Largent is with the city's planning and development department. "Usually we had to fill up once a day and now we're going about three days before we have to fill up."
The department has 55 of the city's 100 or so Toyota Prius cars, which are hybrid-powered -- a combination of electric and gas. "The car is desgined where you don't have to plug it in. The engine charges up the battery. The gasoline powered part of the car charges up the battery," said Largent.
The result is low-emmissions and fuel effficiency of up to 50 miles per gallon. Inspectors like Riffe put on about 20,000 miles each year. Largent explains, "We have about 120 inspectors on the road, so yeah, you do the math and that's quite a bit of savings."
The city says it's committed long term, hoping that within three to five years half of the city's entire fleet will be hybrid or alternative fuel cars. Even Mayor Bill White bought one on his own. Leading by example, supporters say, of what they hope will be a more environmentally friendly Houston.
John... not sure if there is an internal hatch release. If there is, that's one more feature I didn't even knew existed! You forgot to mention the fantastic cupholders. Simple design (unlike my Mercedes!) and works like its supposed to.
Last weekend I pushed new limits on the cargo (human and otherwise) carrying capacity of my 2004 Prius. On Saturday we safely and comfortably placed three child seats (and 3 children) in the back seat without covering the vent. But the amazing feat was on Sunday. My wife asked me to pick up 2 outdoor storage sheds from Sears. "Are you sure they'll fit?" "No problem. They're unassembled and in small boxes." When the Sears employees brought out the 2 boxes and saw the Prius they started laughing. One box was 70inX27inX12in and the other was 56inX34inX12in. I collapsed the 2 rear seats forward, removed the headrest for the front passenger seat, collapsed the front passenger seat backwards, placed the shorter and fatter box on the bottom and the longer box on top. Voila!
The hatchback design truly adds dramatic FUNCTIONAL space for the occasional big haul.
I know what you are talking about. I've done that with my Celica. I love hatchbacks. Prius is more efficient, better rear visibility, and more room in the back seats than a Celica. I am jelous. =D
A Long Islander by origin, I had to chuckle when I read midcow's post on speed requirements for merging. I grew up in Merrick, 1/2 of a mile from the Southern State parkway, home of the SHORTEST merging lanes you will ever find. In fact, by the time you enter the straight portion of the Eastbound entrance ramp from Meadowbrook Road you are ALREADY in the exit ramp for Merrick Ave. Two months ago I drove back to Long Island and had plenty of opportunities to merge via these shortest of lanes amongst pretty darn aggressive drivers. Not only did I never perceive a lack of power, I never needed to accelerate maximally.
Perhaps the sense that some people have of cars being "underpowered" is merely a personality statement: "I have to be faster" and not a reflection of true needs. I suppose this is what john1701a has been saying all along with respect to wants and needs.
We live in a suburb north of Philly and when our 13-year-old gas-guzzling teenager car finally bit the dust, we finally got serious about researching/purchasing a hybrid. Decided on the Prius. Ha. NOTHING available in our area, after searching on-line every dealership within a 150-mile radius. After getting several recommendations for one dealership in particular -- Thompson Toyota in Doylestown -- we decided to brave crossing their threshold. We test-drove the Prius (totally agree with Edmunds ratings, by the way) and spent over an hour talking to their used-car buyer, who agreed to try to get us a "used" (either demo or "track" car) 2004 Prius at the big Mannheim auto auction in Lancaster County. The guy warned us up front that we'd have to pay full sticker for it, which we accepted (like, $26,000-27,000 for Option package #9?). Anybody want to comment on this? If he is successful, we could have the car by this weekend. He suggested we consider outright purchase versus leasing, since the monthly lease payment would not be noticeably less than a purchase monthly payment. But I'm an independent contractor and wanted the tax break of writing off the payments anyway. He said to be careful -- the residual value of the car at the end of the lease period might be high enough to negate the tax advantage. Any comments on that? Finally, in anticipation of our OTHER 13-year-old gas guzzler also dying in the foreseeable future, we also put a deposit on a Ford Escape hybrid (maybe available a year from now, they told us). Understand Ford bought Toyota's Synergy hybrid technology, and we need at least one AWD vehicle, and this is the only one that is also hybrid and still affordable. (No, we don't want to pay $50+K for the Lexus or upcoming Acura...)
I read your post smiling as I take that merge a couple of days a week if I go to Roosevelt field. I live in Massapequa Park and travel the SSP every day to work. People would never understand what we're talking about regarding "acceleration lane". You need something like a Ferarri to blast off at times. What brings you to Ohio? My friends and I are going there (Mr. Prius is going too!) in July to Cedar Point.
Hi! I am a soon to be proud owner of a 2004 Prius. I am in need of finding out what the base cost of a Platinum warranty and environmental protection plans for the Prius actually costs the dealer. I am already paying sticker price and really would prefer a reasonable deal on some part of this vehicle purchase. The dealer has been pretty good (read as, not selling the vehicle over the sticker's invoice), but I got a quote of $2552 (most likely this is a before tax price) for the combo 'deal' of the Platinum warranty and the environmental protection plan(also known as undercoating, scotch-guarding and paint protection). Supposedly it was a "really" discounted price, not sure if that will be the same if I finance with my primary financial institution rather than theirs.
Please, if anyone has any info on this subject, I kind of need to know asap (as I need to call the dealer and finalize the financing and registration tomorrow (Th) morning.)
Hi! I am a soon to be proud owner of a 2004 Prius. I am in need of finding out what the base cost of a Platinum warranty and environmental protection plans for the Prius actually costs the dealer. I am already paying sticker price and really would prefer a reasonable deal on some part of this vehicle purchase. The dealer has been pretty good (read as, not selling the vehicle over the sticker's invoice), but I got a quote of $2552 (most likely this is a before tax price) for the combo 'deal' of the Platinum warranty and the environmental protection plan(also known as undercoating, scotch-guarding and paint protection). Supposedly it was a "really" discounted price, not sure if that will be the same if I finance with my primary financial institution rather than theirs.
Please, if anyone has any info on this subject, I kind of need to know asap (as I need to call the dealer and finalize the financing and registration tomorrow (Th) morning.)
Yes tempusvn Midcow (and I) live in Houston, thanks for posting the city of Houston using hybrid cars article ! I'm afraid people may get the wrong idea about our town, don't think tobacco chewing pick-up truck drivers and blowing tumbleweeds, there are some hybrids cars on the roads, we have the start of a mass transit system, oh heck this is the space city ! Yea compared to the rest of the country we might be behind the times but were getting there.
It's hidden and you'll probably never need it, but there is one.
It's about 1 inch from the latch itself. You have to reach your finger into a little plastic door... one that's easy to find, now that you know that it exists!
The pickup-inspection materials I have found so far that appear most useful are the following items. The original web references to them came from either this or a similar Prius discussion forum. * Toyota PreDelivery Service Information PD010-03 * Prius Pick-up Checklist http://www.vfaq.net/ Gathered from messages posted at the other 2004 Prius Group * Prius Maintenance Schedule provided by ADP and ADP Dealer Services
and of course the Prius Owners Guide
Your question is very timely. After waiting 8 months for a #7 with grey interior, my dealer has found his best possible match, a #6 with ivory interior. The Tideland Pearl paint looks very nice. Today, I must decide to accept or continue to wait. What is the prevailing opinion on interior color for long term use in New England?
>djasonw is doing fine in NY with his Prius. H'mm a New Yorker, now I understand
>When you say that Prius is slow, >in another word, you are defining >performance for everybody using your >own desire(need for speed). Next time, >say it in subjectively, by using "for me".
No I am using a standard test, the time it takes to accelerate from zero to sixty miles per hour in seconds. The 0-60 mph and 1/4 miles acceleration times are the most widely accepted and most widely used measures of performance by auto consumers and auto manufacuters alike. It is not "for me" or "my opinion" but a very specific objective measurement.
When the Prius is measured by its 0-60 mph time it is slower than almost every other car, truck or SUV.
What I don't understand is why Prius owners continue to say their cars are not slow when it has been proven with objective facts ad infinitum that they are.
P.S. - I45 slows down durng heavy traffic as does I10, but there is Sam Houston Tollway, Beltway 8, 610 loop and Highway 59 which move faster. You can't define the entire Elephant by only looking at his trunk.
> What I don't understand is why Prius owners continue to say their cars are not slow when it has been proven with objective facts ad infinitum that they are.
Because you absolutely refuse to provide a straight answer. That's why!
All you do is compare vehicles to each other, with no acknowledgement of what is actually needed.
A year ago, the members here just outright claimed that a minimum of 0-60 in 10 seconds was absolutely essential. I knew that wasn't true, since the 0-60 in 12.5 seconds worked perfectly fine for Prius owners. But nonetheless, I appreciated the answer.
Needless to say, now that Prius does deliver 0-60 in 10 seconds they are quite satisfied.
More is *NOT* always better. There is such a thing called the law of diminishing returns. And we have officially exceeded that threshold.
If you honestly believe even greater acceleration is needed, despite the overwhelming proof that it is not, then tell us how much more and clearly state why.
> If the Prius meets acceleration needs , then why are almost all other cars faster than the Prius?
BECAUSE THAT IS WHAT SELLS!
People have been brainwashed to believe "more is better".
Haven't you noticed how all the headache relief advertisements push "extra strength", even though most of the time all you have is a simple headache that a regular pill will eliminate just fine?
It's called effective marketing.
Your comparisons focus solely on new vehicles, ignoring everything else. If you want to determine what is needed on the highway, you have to actually observe what is on the highway... not what is on the showroom floor.
If you monitor traffic, you will notice quite a number vehicles that can't accelerate as quickly as Prius. Just a few years ago, the average "performance" was slower. And those same vehicles will remain in use for a number of years still.
Ask yourself this, what will it be like a few years from now. Do you honestly believe the average will continue to decrease? If the entire population could accelerate 0-60 in less than 6 seconds, would they? How much is too much? Safety is compromised at some point.
Hey guys - I think the acceleration point has been beaten to death. Let's let this horse die with dignity and move on. The numbers are the numbers - some people want faster and others are perfectly happy with the acceleration numbers that the Prius gives. If your core need is to get the fastest time off the start line then perhaps the Prius isn't for you. If your other desires are a higher priority (fuel efficiency, you like the styling, etc.) then the Prius is probably a great choice.
> If the Prius meets acceleration needs , then why are almost all other cars faster than the Prius? <
Because the Prius does not meet acceleration WANTS for many drivers.
I test drove a 2004 Prius some months ago and found it to be hesitant and slow from a dead stop. Of course, I was used to driving a Volkswagen GTI Turbo, so my expectations about a car's performance were elevated. The Prius disappointed me because it did not meet my WANTS.
Personally, I don't give a rat's behind about NEEDS. I will NEVER bow down to the premise that people should buy a car based on needs alone. How boring is that! IMO, there are millions of people out there that feel the same way I do, and that's why you can buy cars that can accelerate faster than a Prius and corner better than a Prius.
Acceleration and Cornering are high on your list of wants.
Mileage and Green may be higher on someone else's list of wants.
As long as all the parameters meet your needs, you're free to then prioritize your buying decisions according to wants.
Maybe the 4 second 0-60 is worth the tradeoff for 8 MPG fuel efficiency for you.
But, if you communte a hundred miles a day, you might decide that 8 sec 0-60 in trade for 20 MPG is a better Need/Want tradeoff.
That's cool with me either way
As long as we recognize that everyone's list of prorities is different, it's nice that there are cars out there for everyone, and the Prius is a nice additional option for people who may have different need/want matrixes than you.
There is no "what if". Though, your labeling of "Prius" on each of those vehicles is quite misleading.
Toyota has clearly stated countless times that EVERY SINGLE PASSENGER VEHICLE THEY OFFER will have HSD available as an option by 2010.
Toyota is absolutely devastating the competition already. While everyone else is struggling with annual losses, Toyota is celebrating annual profits... well on the way to selling more.
John, glad to see you are still alive and kicking. I would suggest they start driving while watching the "Consumption screen". That's where they will really learn how to get good mileage. Also, Tire Pressures.
Funny how Midcow wants a TDI which is essentially SLOWER in acceleration than the Prius. The TDI would work fine for me, but now that the Prius exists, I prefer it over the TDI. The TDI was my second choice. Who cares if it takes more time to get to 60? John hit it on the nail. Americans are brainwashed into thinking MORE is better. We supersize everything! That's why America is the fattest country in the world. Along with that we have excess horsepower to boot. It appears that Midcow is your typical American citizen that advertisers strive for. He buys into the hype. I'm laughing all the way to the bank. I LOVE my Prius.
No John, I was being very clear I am not talking about other cars i nthe Toyota line, I am talking about the Prius. That is not misleading. To refresh your memory the subject of this thread is the Prius 2004+ The + means the years following 2004, such as 2005, 2006, 2007, etc.
I am talking about different models of the Prius, not a hybrid Highlander or hybrid Camry or hybrid Corolloa or Hybrid Avalon or hybrid Lexus RX400h. Again, let me be very clear, I was talking about future Prius. I am not sure how you managed to misinterpret that but you did, sorry.
"What I don't understand is why Prius owners continue to say their cars are not slow when it has been proven with objective facts ad infinitum that they are."
It's really not that hard to understand. It's all subjective. If a 911 Carrera Turbo guy tells me that my '01 STS was slow I'd say "it was not slow...!" even though, from his perspective he is correct.
Why do you have such a hard time understanding that people come with different views of what is important. They also come with different views of what "fast", "luxurious", "necessary", "exciting" is.
Now I've only driven the Prius once and don't own one (yet) but here is what I thought about it.
"Fast" - I judge this as off-the-line "get up and go" - I felt it WAS fast, in the sense that I was not expecting it to be so "peppy". Now, if I was comparing it to my Tahoe, RX330, or STS I'd definitely say it wasn't as fast as those, yet I'd be hard pressed to say it was "slow".
"Luxurious" - I was quite impressed with the level of luxury that is available in the car.
"Necessary" - This is a tough one. I'm certainly not a "greenie" but as an accountant I can appreciate the need for each of us to conserve our resources and save money on gas.
"Excitement" - Ok, I'm a luxury boat kind of guy instead of a sports car guy but didn't find a lack of excitement in the handling of the Prius. It was adequate and comfortable. NOW on the other hand, I was extremely EXCITED to be driving it. The whole experience was exciting.
So, I know we've beat this dead horse but I just don't understand why you are being so unreasonable. Is it ABSOLUTELY ESSENTIAL for people you don't know to acknowledge the facts as you present them? If so, why?
Odd... you keep harping on 0-60 but the TDI is no sprinter but it holds its own. The mere fact that you would even consider it, makes your argument against the Prius ridiculous and without foundation.
> I am talking about different models of the Prius
Prius is already a specialized model, just like Solara.
What you are suggesting would be like making different versions of Solara. That just doesn't make any sense. It would be eliminating the very aspect that makes it unique.
Hybrids of Camry, Corolla, Solara, Matrix, Spyder, etc. will provide that variety you eluded to, not Prius.
According to Edmunds Solara is offered in the following 2 -door coupe models:
SLE V6 convertable 3.3L auto SE V6 convertable 3.3L auto SE I4 coupe 2.4L man SE I4 coupe 2.4L auto SE Sport I4 Coupe 2.4L man SE Sport I4 Coupe 2.4L auto SE Sport V6 Coupe 3.3L auto SE V6 Coupe 3.3L auto SLE V6 Coupe 3.3L auto
That is 10 models. ================= Now currently on the Prius: 4Dr Hatchback I4 1.5L CVT
That is if, I counted correctly, only one(1) model.
What I am suggesting is that maybe they offer a sport model and maybe they offer an optional engine, i.e. performance model and maybe they offer a convertable model.
1) This discssion is about the Toyota Prius 2004 ONLY. If you want to talk comparisons - "Toyota Future Hybrid Models" or "Toyota Prius - Gripes" or "Future Hybrid Contenders in the Marketplace" then go create these discussions. Let's not bog this vehicle discussion down with issues that frankly you are never going to agree on or have closure with.
2) Any additional posts about geographic locations and not about the Prius will be deleted
Come on folks - let's be somewhat constructive here. I really don't feel like booting people out of the discussion (or Town Hall) because I think that you all can have valuable contributions.
In light of all the controversy, I would like to propose a Long Island gathering for all the PPPs (Passionate Prius People). I can host the party at my house. Gourmet food will be served and it will be a party to remember. If John can make it, we will have a Prius workshop. You'll get to meet all the people you've been chatting with the past year. Think how fun it will be!!! Sylvia, you're invited too!!
The the topic should be changed to "Toyota Prius 2004" instead of the current "Toyota Prius 2004+" The "plus symbol +" implies the year 2004 and beyond.
If that is not the intent then why is the "+" included at the end of 2004 ???
The purpose of Prius is to deliver the LOWEST emissions, with HIGHEST efficiency as a secondary benefit. So, no other configuration is possible without altering the purpose.
You can, like they did for the racing Prius, but that was only a proof-on-concept vehicle... nothing intended to affect the "green" marketing of Prius.
Most vehicles don't have a purpose so well defined, so a performance alteration is perfectly fine. For them, it's basically just a body-styling & interior appeal. Prius doesn't fit that mold.
As a frequent reader and infrequent commenter, and as a very happy owner of a 2003 Prius, I noticed this evening that "Hybrids - Are they up to the chore?" thread is missing. What happened to it? Did the commentary get to acrimonious, and as such, was it deleted???
It was not deleted. It has been made read-only and hidden from view for a view days due to heated member disputes that turned into personal attacks. More than likely, the discussion will be permanently archived.
How about MPG? Mine is climbing wonderfully as the air warms and the car continues to break-in.
Here's my data for the last 2 months (calculated at the pump):
4/08 49.6 4/14 54.3 4/17 46.8 4/22 50.5 4/30 52.6
5/08 52.5 5/15 54.0 5/25 62.0 5/31 54.9
That weirdness on 5/25 was from a bad pump. It shut off way too soon. Anywho, my lifetime average is now at 47.4 MPG. That is the only way to determine geniune efficiency. It will continue to climb throughout the summer, finally ridding me of that nasty winter-only value... which has lead to many incorrect conclusions about actual expect MPG.
Currently, the Multi-Display reads 56.2 MPG after having driven 142 miles.
I do not believe the Toyota Prius hybrid concept will be successfully "ported" to vehicles with HP/performance expections much above that of the Prius.
Only so much energy can be recovered with regenerative braking, probably not much more per vehicle pound than the Prius. All other energy MUST come from the ICE and the high energy loss in using the ICE to recharge the batteries will always result in a net loss vs an ICE adequate to the job alone.
I suspect we will soon see the day of a new type of hybrid with a brake regenerative system wherein the batteries are used exclusively to power a small variable speed/pressure lightweight supercharger matched to an engine of the 2 liter variety.
Yes - a report your Gas Mileage would be a great discussion. Anyone can start discussions in the Hybrid Vehicles board. Just don't have the single question/narrow discussion("the xyz broke and is making a terrible noise").
Hi gang, I was just wondering, is the "auto-down" due to the mechanical configuration of the switch or is it some electronic technology? My thinking is that if one or more of the "non-auto" switches were replaced with the "auto-down" kind (like the driver's side), could this make the two front or even all 4 of the windows "auto-down"? John - Does this sound feasible? It would be necessary to remove the door panel and perhaps some re-wiring if the present switches are mounted together. I get jealous when I read some of you are averaging 53+ mpg! Perhaps because of too many hills I only seem to get around 44 mpg. I don't have any bumper-to-bumper traffic but when I do I see on the display well over 80 mpg! Any ideas? I'm going back to Oregon this Sunday for a few days of golf (Bend/Central Oregon area) and I'll have approx 500 miles of 65-70 mph freeway driving. Is it hard on the car to sustain 70 mph for hours on end? I usually drive 65-68 mph on the freeway. Can I expect more than 50 mpg of freeway driving? I've got 4k miles on the odo and the book recommends tire rotation at 5k. Should I re-adjust tire pressure back to 44 front/42 back? Thanks, Rich
Sustained 70 MPH? Of course!! I had an 81 Tercel that had sustained 65 MPH from NY to Florida. I typically drive 70-80 (conditions permitting) and have taken some 300 mile trips with absolutely no problem. Enjoy the trip!
TOKYO (AFX-ASIA) - Toyota's hybrid car Prius ranked the 10th best-selling car in Japan last month for the first time, according to figures from the Japan Automobile Dealers Association (JADA). The data also showed that Toyota Motor Corp made six of the 10 top-selling cars in Japan last month, with Nissan Motor Co Ltd and Honda Motor Co Ltd making the rest of the 10 top-selling cars, the second straight month that the three automakers took up all the slots
Toyota Corolla kept the top spot for the fourth straight month, with sales of 14,275 vehicles in May, JADA figures showed
Toyota also made the third best-selling model, the Wish minivan, with sales of 9,032, and the fourth best-selling model, the Crown, with sales of 8,897
The 10th spot went to Toyota's Prius hybrid car, with sales of 5,806, making it the first hybrid model to rank in the best 10
"The model change in September and preferential taxation on hybrid cars, as well as growing awareness among consumers toward environmental problem, contributed to the boost in sales of Prius," said Takayuki Kato, an official who is in charge of statistics at JADA. Toyota also made the seventh and eighth best sellers. Honda, Japan's third-largest automaker, made two of the 10 top-selling models. Honda's Fit ranked second, with sales of 9,642 vehicles last month. Its Odyssey placed ninth last month, with sales of 5,944 units
Nissan, Japan's second largest automaker, also made two of the 10 top-selling models, with its Cube ranked fifth with sales of 8,444 vehicles last month
Rank Model Maker Sales 1 Corolla Toyota 14,275 2 Fit Honda 9,642 3 Wish Toyota 9,032 4 Crown Toyota 8,897 5 Cube Nissan 8,444 6 March Nissan 6,919 7 ist Toyota 6,702 8 Alphard Toyota 6,062 9 Odyssey Honda 5,944 10 Prius Toyota 5,806
kyoko.hasegawa@afxasia.com kh/mas For more information and to contact AFX: www.afxnews.com and www.afxpress.com
Comments
I've been to Minneapolis for a week during business trip. I didn't rent a car there because I stayed at a hotel near a client site. My impression of crossing the street there gave me "easy going" traffic. Once again, I've never drove on highway nor city street.
I was in TX for about a week, a couple of months ago. I went to Houston space center and on my way back, I got stuck on the ever confusing highway loop during rush hour! I believe it was I45. I was going like 5mph. You call that fast? Speed limit was 65mph in the loop but increases to 75mph when going south toward space center. TX drivers are not that aggressive compare to NY drivers. Come drive in Manhattan with many yellow cabs. djasonw is doing fine in NY with his Prius.
When you say that Prius is slow, in another word, you are defining performance for everybody using your own desire(need for speed). Next time, say it in subjectively, by using "for me".
Dennis
Here's a quick list of the stuff I can think of off the top of my head:
- Startup (button & shifter)
- Powerdown
- Folding Seats
- the many Storage Areas
- Internal Hatch Release
- Multi-Display Stuff
- Navigation System
- Voice-Recognition
- Under-The-Hood Tour
- Accessing the Spare
- Battery-Pack
- Auxiliary Battery
- Strap-On Bike-Rack
- Homelink
- Tire Care
- Stealth
- Bluetooth
- Stereo System
- Steering-Wheel Buttons
- Floormats
- SE/SS
What did I miss?
JOHN
You don't live in Houston do you MidCow?
I understand that there, they are trying to kill off City Employees by making them drive unsafe cars.
That, and the Mayor appears to be Suicidal!
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http://www.khou.com/news/local/stories/khou040601_sc_hybridcars.2- 1d29ce85.html
City squeezing more miles from hybrid cars
09:23 PM CDT on Tuesday, June 1, 2004
By Jeremy Rogalski / 11 News
We found one business that puts major miles on the roads, but with fewer costly trips to the pump than most, thanks to Houston's hybrid cars.
Kenny Riffe has one of those jobs where his car is his office. He said, "Two dollars for gas ... you want to get all you can out of your gasoline tank."
In a climate where fuel surcharges are becoming more commonplace and companies are feeling the pinch at the pump, one business is not guzzling gas, but banking on saving -- the city of Houston.
Al Largent is with the city's planning and development department. "Usually we had to fill up once a day and now we're going about three days before we have to fill up."
The department has 55 of the city's 100 or so Toyota Prius cars, which are hybrid-powered -- a combination of electric and gas. "The car is desgined where you don't have to plug it in. The engine charges up the battery. The gasoline powered part of the car charges up the battery," said Largent.
The result is low-emmissions and fuel effficiency of up to 50 miles per gallon. Inspectors like Riffe put on about 20,000 miles each year. Largent explains, "We have about 120 inspectors on the road, so yeah, you do the math and that's quite a bit of savings."
The city says it's committed long term, hoping that within three to five years half of the city's entire fleet will be hybrid or alternative fuel cars. Even Mayor Bill White bought one on his own. Leading by example, supporters say, of what they hope will be a more environmentally friendly Houston.
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The hatchback design truly adds dramatic FUNCTIONAL space for the occasional big haul.
Dennis
A Long Islander by origin, I had to chuckle when I read midcow's post on speed requirements for merging. I grew up in Merrick, 1/2 of a mile from the Southern State parkway, home of the SHORTEST merging lanes you will ever find. In fact, by the time you enter the straight portion of the Eastbound entrance ramp from Meadowbrook Road you are ALREADY in the exit ramp for Merrick Ave. Two months ago I drove back to Long Island and had plenty of opportunities to merge via these shortest of lanes amongst pretty darn aggressive drivers. Not only did I never perceive a lack of power, I never needed to accelerate maximally.
Perhaps the sense that some people have of cars being "underpowered" is merely a personality statement: "I have to be faster" and not a reflection of true needs. I suppose this is what john1701a has been saying all along with respect to wants and needs.
I am in need of finding out what the base cost of a Platinum warranty and environmental protection plans for the Prius actually costs the dealer. I am already paying sticker price and really would prefer a reasonable deal on some part of this vehicle purchase. The dealer has been pretty good (read as, not selling the vehicle over the sticker's invoice), but I got a quote of $2552 (most likely this is a before tax price) for the combo 'deal' of the Platinum warranty and the environmental protection plan(also known as undercoating, scotch-guarding and paint protection). Supposedly it was a "really" discounted price, not sure if that will be the same if I finance with my primary financial institution rather than theirs.
Please, if anyone has any info on this subject, I kind of need to know asap (as I need to call the dealer and finalize the financing and registration tomorrow (Th) morning.)
Thanks so much for your assistance on this topic!
TIA-
luvbeingreen
I am in need of finding out what the base cost of a Platinum warranty and environmental protection plans for the Prius actually costs the dealer. I am already paying sticker price and really would prefer a reasonable deal on some part of this vehicle purchase. The dealer has been pretty good (read as, not selling the vehicle over the sticker's invoice), but I got a quote of $2552 (most likely this is a before tax price) for the combo 'deal' of the Platinum warranty and the environmental protection plan(also known as undercoating, scotch-guarding and paint protection). Supposedly it was a "really" discounted price, not sure if that will be the same if I finance with my primary financial institution rather than theirs.
Please, if anyone has any info on this subject, I kind of need to know asap (as I need to call the dealer and finalize the financing and registration tomorrow (Th) morning.)
Thanks so much for your assistance on this topic!
TIA-
luvbeingreen
It's hidden and you'll probably never need it, but there is one.
It's about 1 inch from the latch itself. You have to reach your finger into a little plastic door... one that's easy to find, now that you know that it exists!
JOHN
* Toyota PreDelivery Service Information PD010-03
* Prius Pick-up Checklist http://www.vfaq.net/ Gathered from messages posted at the other 2004 Prius Group
* Prius Maintenance Schedule provided by ADP and ADP Dealer Services
and of course the Prius Owners Guide
Your question is very timely. After waiting 8 months for a #7 with grey interior, my dealer has found his best possible match, a #6 with ivory interior. The Tideland Pearl paint looks very nice. Today, I must decide to accept or continue to wait. What is the prevailing opinion on interior color for long term use in New England?
H'mm a New Yorker, now I understand
>When you say that Prius is slow,
>in another word, you are defining
>performance for everybody using your
>own desire(need for speed). Next time,
>say it in subjectively, by using "for me".
No I am using a standard test, the time it takes to accelerate from zero to sixty miles per hour in seconds. The 0-60 mph and 1/4 miles acceleration times are the most widely accepted and most widely used measures of performance by auto consumers and auto manufacuters alike. It is not "for me" or "my opinion" but a very specific objective measurement.
When the Prius is measured by its 0-60 mph time it is slower than almost every other car, truck or SUV.
What I don't understand is why Prius owners continue to say their cars are not slow when it has been proven with objective facts ad infinitum that they are.
P.S. - I45 slows down durng heavy traffic as does I10, but there is Sam Houston Tollway, Beltway 8, 610 loop and Highway 59 which move faster. You can't define the entire Elephant by only looking at his trunk.
Because you absolutely refuse to provide a straight answer. That's why!
All you do is compare vehicles to each other, with no acknowledgement of what is actually needed.
A year ago, the members here just outright claimed that a minimum of 0-60 in 10 seconds was absolutely essential. I knew that wasn't true, since the 0-60 in 12.5 seconds worked perfectly fine for Prius owners. But nonetheless, I appreciated the answer.
Needless to say, now that Prius does deliver 0-60 in 10 seconds they are quite satisfied.
More is *NOT* always better. There is such a thing called the law of diminishing returns. And we have officially exceeded that threshold.
If you honestly believe even greater acceleration is needed, despite the overwhelming proof that it is not, then tell us how much more and clearly state why.
JOHN
Just answer me one simple question:
If the Prius meets acceleration needs , then why are almost all other cars faster than the Prius?
BECAUSE THAT IS WHAT SELLS!
People have been brainwashed to believe "more is better".
Haven't you noticed how all the headache relief advertisements push "extra strength", even though most of the time all you have is a simple headache that a regular pill will eliminate just fine?
It's called effective marketing.
Your comparisons focus solely on new vehicles, ignoring everything else. If you want to determine what is needed on the highway, you have to actually observe what is on the highway... not what is on the showroom floor.
If you monitor traffic, you will notice quite a number vehicles that can't accelerate as quickly as Prius. Just a few years ago, the average "performance" was slower. And those same vehicles will remain in use for a number of years still.
Ask yourself this, what will it be like a few years from now. Do you honestly believe the average will continue to decrease? If the entire population could accelerate 0-60 in less than 6 seconds, would they? How much is too much? Safety is compromised at some point.
JOHN
Let's move on.
Because the Prius does not meet acceleration WANTS for many drivers.
I test drove a 2004 Prius some months ago and found it to be hesitant and slow from a dead stop. Of course, I was used to driving a Volkswagen GTI Turbo, so my expectations about a car's performance were elevated. The Prius disappointed me because it did not meet my WANTS.
Personally, I don't give a rat's behind about NEEDS. I will NEVER bow down to the premise that people should buy a car based on needs alone. How boring is that! IMO, there are millions of people out there that feel the same way I do, and that's why you can buy cars that can accelerate faster than a Prius and corner better than a Prius.
Acceleration and Cornering are high on your list of wants.
Mileage and Green may be higher on someone else's list of wants.
As long as all the parameters meet your needs, you're free to then prioritize your buying decisions according to wants.
Maybe the 4 second 0-60 is worth the tradeoff for 8 MPG fuel efficiency for you.
But, if you communte a hundred miles a day, you might decide that 8 sec 0-60 in trade for 20 MPG is a better Need/Want tradeoff.
That's cool with me either way
As long as we recognize that everyone's list of prorities is different, it's nice that there are cars out there for everyone, and the Prius is a nice additional option for people who may have different need/want matrixes than you.
Toyota came out with a :
a sedan Prius
a convertable Prius
a performance and handling Prius (0-60 in 8 seconds, .80 cornering)
a luxury Prius (leather power memory seats, sunroof, etc.)
... they would meet more auto consumer WANTS and sell more cars
Toyota has clearly stated countless times that EVERY SINGLE PASSENGER VEHICLE THEY OFFER will have HSD available as an option by 2010.
Toyota is absolutely devastating the competition already. While everyone else is struggling with annual losses, Toyota is celebrating annual profits... well on the way to selling more.
JOHN
I am talking about different models of the Prius, not a hybrid Highlander or hybrid Camry or hybrid Corolloa or Hybrid Avalon or hybrid Lexus RX400h. Again, let me be very clear, I was talking about future Prius. I am not sure how you managed to misinterpret that but you did, sorry.
YMMV,
MidCow
The second thing I want is better miles per gallon
What I don't want is to lose handling braking and performance.
===============================
The TDI only loses performance. However, that is a big loss and becuase of it I haven't bought one.
I analyze the hype rather than buy it. And there is a lot of hype on this board especially from the lovers, greeners and no-lifers .
=================
Actually ,the upcoming Accord Hybrid would better fit my profile, assuming you can obtain it with a manual transmission.
P.S. - Is NY really inhabitable?
It's really not that hard to understand. It's all subjective. If a 911 Carrera Turbo guy tells me that my '01 STS was slow I'd say "it was not slow...!" even though, from his perspective he is correct.
Why do you have such a hard time understanding that people come with different views of what is important. They also come with different views of what "fast", "luxurious", "necessary", "exciting" is.
Now I've only driven the Prius once and don't own one (yet) but here is what I thought about it.
"Fast" - I judge this as off-the-line "get up and go" - I felt it WAS fast, in the sense that I was not expecting it to be so "peppy". Now, if I was comparing it to my Tahoe, RX330, or STS I'd definitely say it wasn't as fast as those, yet I'd be hard pressed to say it was "slow".
"Luxurious" - I was quite impressed with the level of luxury that is available in the car.
"Necessary" - This is a tough one. I'm certainly not a "greenie" but as an accountant I can appreciate the need for each of us to conserve our resources and save money on gas.
"Excitement" - Ok, I'm a luxury boat kind of guy instead of a sports car guy but didn't find a lack of excitement in the handling of the Prius. It was adequate and comfortable. NOW on the other hand, I was extremely EXCITED to be driving it. The whole experience was exciting.
So, I know we've beat this dead horse but I just don't understand why you are being so unreasonable. Is it ABSOLUTELY ESSENTIAL for people you don't know to acknowledge the facts as you present them? If so, why?
Prius is already a specialized model, just like Solara.
What you are suggesting would be like making different versions of Solara. That just doesn't make any sense. It would be eliminating the very aspect that makes it unique.
Hybrids of Camry, Corolla, Solara, Matrix, Spyder, etc. will provide that variety you eluded to, not Prius.
JOHN
"performance" is both vague & misleading, per the definition:
- The act of performing or the state of being performed.
- The way in which someone or something functions
I think he actually means "acceleration".
JOHN
According to Edmunds Solara is offered in the following 2 -door coupe models:
SLE V6 convertable 3.3L auto
SE V6 convertable 3.3L auto
SE I4 coupe 2.4L man
SE I4 coupe 2.4L auto
SE Sport I4 Coupe 2.4L man
SE Sport I4 Coupe 2.4L auto
SE Sport V6 Coupe 3.3L auto
SE V6 Coupe 3.3L auto
SLE V6 Coupe 3.3L auto
That is 10 models.
=================
Now currently on the Prius:
4Dr Hatchback I4 1.5L CVT
That is if, I counted correctly, only one(1) model.
What I am suggesting is that maybe they offer a sport model and maybe they offer an optional engine, i.e. performance model and maybe they offer a convertable model.
1) This discssion is about the Toyota Prius 2004 ONLY. If you want to talk comparisons - "Toyota Future Hybrid Models" or "Toyota Prius - Gripes" or "Future Hybrid Contenders in the Marketplace" then go create these discussions. Let's not bog this vehicle discussion down with issues that frankly you are never going to agree on or have closure with.
2) Any additional posts about geographic locations and not about the Prius will be deleted
Come on folks - let's be somewhat constructive here. I really don't feel like booting people out of the discussion (or Town Hall) because I think that you all can have valuable contributions.
So I'd have to catch the 2nd annual one.
JOHN
If that is not the intent then why is the "+" included at the end of 2004 ???
The purpose of Prius is to deliver the LOWEST emissions, with HIGHEST efficiency as a secondary benefit. So, no other configuration is possible without altering the purpose.
You can, like they did for the racing Prius, but that was only a proof-on-concept vehicle... nothing intended to affect the "green" marketing of Prius.
Most vehicles don't have a purpose so well defined, so a performance alteration is perfectly fine. For them, it's basically just a body-styling & interior appeal. Prius doesn't fit that mold.
JOHN
Ed Headington
How about MPG? Mine is climbing wonderfully as the air warms and the car continues to break-in.
Here's my data for the last 2 months (calculated at the pump):
4/08 49.6
4/14 54.3
4/17 46.8
4/22 50.5
4/30 52.6
5/08 52.5
5/15 54.0
5/25 62.0
5/31 54.9
That weirdness on 5/25 was from a bad pump. It shut off way too soon. Anywho, my lifetime average is now at 47.4 MPG. That is the only way to determine geniune efficiency. It will continue to climb throughout the summer, finally ridding me of that nasty winter-only value... which has lead to many incorrect conclusions about actual expect MPG.
Currently, the Multi-Display reads 56.2 MPG after having driven 142 miles.
JOHN
Only so much energy can be recovered with regenerative braking, probably not much more per vehicle pound than the Prius. All other energy MUST come from the ICE and the high energy loss in using the ICE to recharge the batteries will always result in a net loss vs an ICE adequate to the job alone.
I suspect we will soon see the day of a new type of hybrid with a brake regenerative system wherein the batteries are used exclusively to power a small variable speed/pressure lightweight supercharger matched to an engine of the 2 liter variety.
I was just wondering, is the "auto-down" due to the mechanical configuration of the switch or is it some electronic technology? My thinking is that if one or more of the "non-auto" switches were replaced with the "auto-down" kind (like the driver's side), could this make the two front or even all 4 of the windows "auto-down"?
John - Does this sound feasible? It would be necessary to remove the door panel and perhaps some re-wiring if the present switches are mounted together.
I get jealous when I read some of you are averaging 53+ mpg! Perhaps because of too many hills I only seem to get around 44 mpg. I don't have any bumper-to-bumper traffic but when I do I see on the display well over 80 mpg! Any ideas? I'm going back to Oregon this Sunday for a few days of golf (Bend/Central Oregon area) and I'll have approx 500 miles of 65-70 mph freeway driving. Is it hard on the car to sustain 70 mph for hours on end? I usually drive 65-68 mph on the freeway. Can I expect more than 50 mpg of freeway driving?
I've got 4k miles on the odo and the book recommends tire rotation at 5k. Should I re-adjust tire pressure back to 44 front/42 back?
Thanks,
Rich
Toyota's hybrid car Prius ranks as 10th best-selling model in Japan in May
Friday, June 4, 2004 4:22:15 AM
http://www.afxpress.com
TOKYO (AFX-ASIA) - Toyota's hybrid car Prius ranked the 10th best-selling car in Japan last month for the first time, according to figures from the Japan Automobile Dealers Association (JADA). The data also showed that Toyota Motor Corp made six of the 10 top-selling cars in Japan last month, with Nissan Motor Co Ltd and Honda Motor Co Ltd making the rest of the 10 top-selling cars, the second straight month that the three automakers took up all the slots
Toyota Corolla kept the top spot for the fourth straight month, with sales of 14,275 vehicles in May, JADA figures showed
Toyota also made the third best-selling model, the Wish minivan, with sales of 9,032, and the fourth best-selling model, the Crown, with sales of 8,897
The 10th spot went to Toyota's Prius hybrid car, with sales of 5,806, making it the first hybrid model to rank in the best 10
"The model change in September and preferential taxation on hybrid cars, as well as growing awareness among consumers toward environmental problem, contributed to the boost in sales of Prius," said Takayuki Kato, an official who is in charge of statistics at JADA. Toyota also made the seventh and eighth best sellers. Honda, Japan's third-largest automaker, made two of the 10 top-selling models. Honda's Fit ranked second, with sales of 9,642 vehicles last month. Its Odyssey placed ninth last month, with sales of 5,944 units
Nissan, Japan's second largest automaker, also made two of the 10 top-selling models, with its Cube ranked fifth with sales of 8,444 vehicles last month
Rank Model Maker Sales 1 Corolla Toyota 14,275 2 Fit Honda 9,642 3 Wish Toyota 9,032 4 Crown Toyota 8,897 5 Cube Nissan 8,444 6 March Nissan 6,919 7 ist Toyota 6,702 8 Alphard Toyota 6,062 9 Odyssey Honda 5,944 10 Prius Toyota 5,806
kyoko.hasegawa@afxasia.com kh/mas For more information and to contact AFX: www.afxnews.com and www.afxpress.com