Tundra & Dakota-Midsize comparables?

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Comments

  • BrutusBrutus Member Posts: 1,113
    The latest issue of Trailer Life Magazine has a feature article on the Tundra towing a trailer that weighed a little over 6,400 pounds with tanks full, but no gear. They liked the truck. They said the engine had plenty of zip.

    I think they said something about it being a little bumpier under tow in the city, but said he easily made up for that by being smoother on the open the road. I just perused the article briefly, but I got the feeling that the consensus was that overall, the truck was a little smoother and better handling than the comparable Big 3 and they said it had no problem holding it's own towing with the Big 3. Personally, I'd say the article should put an end to the debate of whether or not the Tundra is a true 1/2 ton. Whether you love it or hate it, it clearly belongs in the 1/2 ton class and is capable of competing with the big boys.

    They did mention the small back seat and said that it was clearly designed with kids mind only. They said that the front provided ample room for driver and passengers, even those several inches over 6'.

    The other negative was more significant from a towing viewpoint. The truck had the 3.9 axle ratio. Running empty, it got 19mpg hwy and 15mpg city. Both figures are very good. However, towing the trailer, it only managed 6.9mpg. Couple this with a 25 gallon fuel tank and you're looking for gas every 150 miles or so. Can you get a 4.10 or lower with the Tundra? If so, I wonder if this would improve the towing mpg. Obviously, it would have a negative impact on the empty mpg, but I suspect the trade-off might be worth it.

    Just as an FYI, I have a 99 F-350 dually with the V-10 and 4.30 and I'd get better mpg than that towing a 6,300 pound trailer, plus I have a 38 gallon fuel tank.
  • marsha7marsha7 Member Posts: 3,703
    and I did read most of the posts, and, like ALL of Edmunds topics, I enjoy most of it. But I must be misunderstanding "the big picture" here. I see many posts referring to the Big 3, which I assume is GM (Silverado) Ford (F-150) and Dodge (Ram), which are all full size trucks. The entire reason for the existence of the Dakota was to make something larger than the Ranger/S10 size truck, but smaller than the full size. The Dakota was made for city people like me who are, quite frankly, unable to handle the size of the F150/Ram but want a little more sheet metal than a truck not much bigger than a VW Bug. Having said that, is the Tundra a Dakota competitor, or is it a F150/Ram/Silverado competitor? It's size, which is NOT variable to our wishes, either places it in the size of the Dakota or the F150. Tell me, which is it?
  • arkie6arkie6 Member Posts: 198
    I own a Tundra and would consider it, size wise, to be about midway between a Dakota and the 1/2 ton Chevy/Ford/Dodge. I looked at the Dakota initially, until I heard that Toyota was going to make a V8 pickup. My past experience with Toyota and Chevy made me want to stick with Toyota.

    Anyway, the size of the Tundra is perfect for my needs - it handles great, its nimble and quick, and its less hassle to park at Wal-Mart or the grocery store than the big 3. A buddy of mine has a new Silverado that he can't get comletely in his garage (the garage door rests on the top of his rear bumper when he tries to close it).
  • andy_jordanandy_jordan Member Posts: 764
    that I agree with a Tundra owner, but as a Dakota owner I agree with arkie6 that the Tundra fits midway between Dakota and 'full size'
  • marsha7marsha7 Member Posts: 3,703
    extreme, we now have FOUR truck sizes: small (Ranger/S10), midsize (Dakota) upper midsize or small fullsize (Tundra) and fullsize (F150/Ram). Are there any more sizes on the horizon? LOL
  • andy_jordanandy_jordan Member Posts: 764
    We also have the hybrids - Frontier and Dakota quad cabs, sport trac, explorer sport, avalanche, and of course the ultimate yuppymobile the Cadillac dowhatsit or whatever its called that has the ash lined pick up bed.
  • jcmdiejcmdie Member Posts: 594
    There must be a market for all these variations or they wouldn't bother making them. I realize that they are just trying to secure a larger portion of the truck sales pie. Some of these ideas seem ridiculous to me, but for someone else it will be perfect match.
  • andy_jordanandy_jordan Member Posts: 764
    Not sure that it will be a perfect match, but people will be convinced (by expensive marketing) that it will be a perfect match. Some people will buy something new just because it is new. Car / truck remodels are a great example - if a redesign is due then sales drop, as soon as the redesign hits the street then sales surge, even if only cosmetic changes have occurred.

    This means that manufacturers can now produce vehicles for niche markets because so many people will get on the bandwagon. The percentage of people who need one of these hybrids is tiny, but the companies can produce them because they know that trucks sell, and obviously new designs in trucks really sell.

    I would see the quad cabs as an exception to this - these are a genuinely innovative design - the only reason that they didn't appear earlier is that it is only recently that trucks have become personal transportation rather than working tools.

    But show me someone who NEEDS a Cadillac pick up truck and I'll show you a fool. Now someone who WANTS one is a different matter - mind you, now I think about it, maybe not.
  • tpmiller1tpmiller1 Member Posts: 165
    I have riding mules. They come in all sizes. In the NE, people think the bigger the better, must be able to go farther, longer. In the SE, people want the smaller, all the better to get under tree branches without getting wacked.
    It's the perceived needs that matter, whether correct or not. I'd venture to some, a cadillac pickup is a "want", turned into perceived need.
  • andy_jordanandy_jordan Member Posts: 764
    which brings me back to the start of my last post - expensive marketing
  • tpmiller1tpmiller1 Member Posts: 165
    yep.
  • jcmdiejcmdie Member Posts: 594
    Regarding the "cddilac-type truck", The market exists here for a very practical reason. A businessman can only write off a portion of an automobile and that portion goes down as the price of the car goes up. Enter the luxury truck. Now the business owner/executive can write off 100% of the purchase price and still have his luxury vehicle.
  • andy_jordanandy_jordan Member Posts: 764
    But probably correct
  • dklossdkloss Member Posts: 22
    One can't deny the amount of attention the Tundra has received upon it's introduction. It has been given high regards by many reputable truck magazines, consumer groups and owners. I don't recall any one pickup that has fired up so many people and drawn such scrutiny. I think while other manufacturers have become complacent over the years by repackaging the same old technology, Toyota has raised the bar and will send designers scrambling back to the drafting tables. This has lit the fire that will surely make manufacturers get off their [non-permissible content removed] to go the extra mile to make their products better. Time will tell about Tundra reliability and surely they will have problems too, but, Toyota has created a truck that replaces the everyday vehicle with a comfortable, nimble and useful truck. Everyone will benefit by the introduction of the Tundra....as you can tell, I am a satisfied Tundra owner...
  • andy_jordanandy_jordan Member Posts: 764
    And you wonder why Tundra owners get grief here - I mean really.

    The Tundra is a good truck, just not for everyone. What is this a Tundra advert. The Tundra is an attempt at a full size truck - we can all debate the size, but bottom line is it is a good truck for the niche in the market whose needs it has met.

    To say that it is "for everyone", has "fired up so many people" and that it "replaces the everyday vehicle with a comfortable, nimble and useful truck" is going way beyond reality.

    All that comments like that do is bring more abuse down on Tundra owners.
  • dklossdkloss Member Posts: 22
    read it again Andy...I'm not suggesting the Tundra for everyone...a little competition makes for better products. That's a no-brainer. Everyone benefits when a product shakes up the industry. I'm saying maybe manufacturers get off their "number 1 truck for 60 years" crap and deliver what people want. The world is moving faster than lethargic old school corporations. The Tundra is in their rearview mirror...if they don't realize Toyota is on the move, soon they'll be seeing tailights. You have proven my point, YOU'RE FIRED UP...you burnt my eyebrows!!!...pardon me while I get an extinguisher...
  • barlitzbarlitz Member Posts: 752
    What are you talking about? Its only a truck get a grip on yourself.
  • dklossdkloss Member Posts: 22
    guess you missed the point too... I'll have to take it down a notch ..."TUNDRA ROCKS DUDE"...is that better ???
  • andy_jordanandy_jordan Member Posts: 764
    You would appear to be having an identity crisis!!!

    Post #234 you said

    "Tundra is good for everyone"

    Post #236 you said

    "I'm not suggesting the Tundra is for everyone"

    Who has proved whose point?
  • marsha7marsha7 Member Posts: 3,703
    While I am not a tax expert, I believe there is a dollar limit to the amount a business can deduct for a vehicle, around $25000. And I believe that only a certain amount can be deducted each year. Absurd example: if Mercedes made a similar car-truck to Caddy, and it sold for $75000, you could not write it all off, you could still only write off about 25000 over 5 years. I think they eliminated full write-offs back in the 80s, back in the "last century."
  • lmeyer1lmeyer1 Member Posts: 215
    I am a tax lawyer, and you are correct. In general, a business cannot deduct the full cost of a vehicle in the year it's acquired.

    Instead, the deduction is taken in the form of depreciation, which simply means it's spread out over a number of years.

    The depreciation schedules can get fairly complicated, but that's the gist of it.
  • z71billz71bill Member Posts: 1,986
    is for cars only, Trucks that are used in the business are a loop hole. That is one reason many small business owners are trading in the BMW 540 on a fully loaded 1/2 ton truck.
  • lmeyer1lmeyer1 Member Posts: 215
    That could be. My specialty is employee benefits, so I don't work with this stuff everyday. I would, however, hazard a guess that not all vehicles you and I consider "trucks" qualify for immediate expensing. I can take a quick peek when I'm back at the office on Monday and confirm.
  • jcmdiejcmdie Member Posts: 594
    By the wat I wouldn't consider this a loophole. Is it fair that a business wouldn't be able to write off thier work trucks or delivery trucks when they are needed to conduct business?
  • z71billz71bill Member Posts: 1,986
    Yes it is a loop hole. Buy a $45K customized truck to drive around instead of a car and get the full deduction. Many of these trucks will never see any other use besides driving the boss around. I have no problem with allowing the deduction, but it is a loop hole.

    The tax code is just a bunch of regulations - many have no logical basis - they are politically driven. That is why I hate doing tax work, and why I got out of this business years ago. 44,000 pages of tax laws, what a waste of paper.
  • marsha7marsha7 Member Posts: 3,703
    Off topic - if our government, especially Clinton/Gore's "green" Sierra Club government was so concerned about trees and the environment, they would be pushing for simplifying the tax code down from 44,000 pages. Think of all the trees we cut down to print copies of the tax code, and all the paper used for all those schedules in our tax returns. New campaign for Texas' Bill Archer (the guy who wants to eliminate the IRS and just go with a National Sales Tax): VOTE FOR ME, SAVE THE TREES! LLL-O-L

    Sorry-could not resist the chance.
  • 2drive2drive Member Posts: 90
    You will see the elimination of the IRS, and the enactment of a National Sales Tax, when you see the cessation of the flow of cash to Washington. In other words, don't hold your breath for that to happen.
  • lmeyer1lmeyer1 Member Posts: 215
    Well, take this for what it's worth, since this is not the area of tax law that I work in, but I cannot find anything that would allow an immediate deduction for the purchase of a pickup truck.

    Instead, "light general purpose trucks" (trucks intended for road use with an unloaded weight of less than 13,000 pounds) are treated as "five year property".

    This means that the cost of acquiring such a truck to be used in a trade or business must be recovered (i.e., deducted) over six years.

    Z71Bill, or anyone else, if you have a citation to some specific authority that says otherwise, I'd be happy to take a quick look at it.
  • z71billz71bill Member Posts: 1,986
    I did not imply the deduction would be all in the first year. It will be depreciated over its IRS life. I thought it was 3 years for cars/light duty trucks but it has been years since I have done this type of work.

    Man we are way off topic.
  • tpmiller1tpmiller1 Member Posts: 165
    z71bill, yep, I think this topic, (pretty much beaten to death anyway)is headed for a blue ice cube. Anyhow, where's my IRS postcard so I can mail in my flat tax?
  • lmeyer1lmeyer1 Member Posts: 215
    Z71bill: Don't want to beat this to death. My only point was that I see no difference in the treatment of light trucks and cars when purchased for use in a trade or business. That is, there is no loop hole for trucks.
  • meredithmeredith Member Posts: 575
    After 30 or more days of inactivity....

    this topic is being "frozen." It will be archived or deleted in the next 10 days or so.

    Front Porch Philosopher
    SUV, Pickups, & Aftermarket and Accessories Host
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