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Comments
The Silverado benefits just outweighed the Tundras benefits "for my use and preference". I would not be ashamed or have a problem one buying a Tundra if my needs were different. Tundra seems to be a great success, even in the first year of production. If they would make it a little bigger on the interior cabin and add some of the features that are important to me persoanally, I would have a hard time choosing between the Silverado and the Tundra.
The Toyota designers just havn't adhered to the American truck buyer as much as they should. They have admittedly in the past, designed their trucks with the smaller (like the Japanese) driver in mind. That is not meant as a racist remark or slam. It is a known fact that the Japanese are smaller in size than Americans and Toyota has had a hard time realizing the need for bigger interiors for their trucks and cars. Doesn't mean it is a bad vehicle, just not quite there for "all" American drivers.
I think what you get used to has an important twist on what you will buy also. I drove a Tacoma for 4 years and loved it. Swore I would never buy any other truck. However, I have since been driving the full size Chevy trucks again and I am used to the extra room. It would be extremely hard for me to give up that room again. Same goes for other characteristics of a truck. If you are used to having options like the locking diff and autotrac and bigger horsepowered engines, as well as more engine choices, etc., it is hard to consider the Tundra as a replacement to that truck. Again, this is not saying that the Tundra is too small or inferior in any way, just noting why some may not see it as a viable choice for a truck to meet their needs (or wants as it may also be).
Tundras are definitely well built trucks.
I am not saying this to sway anybody's opinion, because we all know what opinions are like, I am just trying to provide as unbiased an opinion as I can so anybody who reads this and is looking to buy a truck will have some good first hand info besides, my truck can beat up your truck. That being said. The Tundra is a dream to drive in the weather and as for off road, I have a 2wd so I don't have any business off road and if you have 4 wheel drive you shouldn't need a locker anyway, if you do, you are in pretty bad shape. The only worry I would have not having some kind of limited slip is pulling a boat out of a boat ramp and if I ever get to that point I will let everybody know, honestly, if I went swimming or not.
Not setting up for a flame or anything, just curious, how has your Silverado treated you? I mean they are nice trucks, I was just a little worried about quality and dealer service.
Chris
I have had a few very minor problems, but overall I am extremlely happy with the new model Silverado. Unfortunately, I was rearended on the highway last week and my truck, which I really thought would be totalled, is being repaired. $12,000 worth of damage and they will not total it. Damage must exceed 65% of the vehicles value to merit them totalling it. Oh, well, new bed was put on, frame was straightened by one of the best frame specialists in the business and the two creases in the cab where the bed slammed into the cab, are being lead filled and repainted. Carries a lifetime warranty on the workmanship and materials so I am covered irregardless.
In my honest opinion, if I had been in a Tundra, not only would the truck be totalled, but I don't think I would have faired as well in sustained injury either. I think the thinner sheetmetal and the lighter frame would have resulted in much more damage. Again, thats just my non-expert opinion.
I will most likely always buy GM trucks. Not out of brand loyalty, but because they have always been good to me and served my needs very well. I have never had any real problems with them. I have had just as many problems with the Toyota trucks I have had as my GM trucks and I actually worked my GM trucks much harder than the Toyota's. Again, I am not flaming either, just stating my experiences as you requested.
My Tacoma took quite a bit of my abuse and kept right on going, so maybe the Tundra would surprise me. I would have never ventured elsewhere had I not needed more room. Like I mentioned, I tow a boat to tournaments and for family recreation so I am frequently loaded up on my trips. I needed the larger rear cabin room for passengers and gear, etc. Otherwise, the Tundra would have been in the running when I bought.
The total cost of ownership is what matters, not what your truck payment is. DEPRECIATION and REPAIRS are a big factor. I guarantee you that a Tundra is going to have a better resale value after 5 years than a Ford. I have owned Chevy, Ford, and Dodge trucks in the last 5 years, so I have no particular slant, but Toyota's rep for durability and engine life will probably make it the cheapest to own in the long run. Don't choose a truck because it's $1,500 cheaper.
When it comes time for service there is always a premium whether it be at the dealer or a Sears/NTB place. For example last month my $79.99 brake job at NTB is $97 because it is a Subaru. Whenever my Honda needed a aterpump or something I paid %50 more for the part than I would on a Chevy.
Now just for kicks call a Toyota dealer and ask them what a rebuild of that Tundra engine would be, and then call the Chevy dealer and ask the same thing on their V-8.
Also take a look at the maintenance schedules between the 2. You'll be doing more regular maintenance on that Toyota then on the Chevy.
Ashamed to admit, but I was curious what it would cost for a Toyota dealer to replace the rubber camshaft drive drive belts. He said "Whew...," he would have to get back to me. He never did.
When I replaced the engine in a '90 Nissan Maxima, no one was rebuilding them. They said to do it properly, it cost more than people will pay. What you end up doing is pulling one from a wrecked vehicle, and paying an arm and a leg to get one that's good. Was around $3,000 for the Maxima. Only had about 100,000 miles, but it burned up when the computer leaned it out so bad the exhause headers glowed bright red!
A factory brand new 5.3l V8 long block that even includes the harness is only 3k. Give it a few years to not be a brand new engine and I am sure it will be as reasonable as the 350 engines. 350 Chevies are going for about 2k fully equipped.
I recently rebuilt the engine in my 1984 Toyota Supra (2.8 liter DOHC I-6) with about 180,000 miles due primarily to oil leaks (also found the oil rings stuck from carbon which I suspect was due to the previous owners lack of regular oil changes - I bought the car with 104,000 miles). Anyway, for about $1200 worth of genuine Toyota parts and a couple of weekends I had the engine and transmission back in tip top shape. I replaced the following: all engine gaskets, piston rings, main and rod bearings, hydraulic valve lash adjusters, water pump, timing belt, timing belt idler, clutch , pressure plate, throw-out bearing, pilot bearing, transmission front seal, transmission rear seal, transmission rear bushing, and other misc stuff like plugs, wires, air filter (K&N), fuel filter, acc. belts, etc. Note that the engine block and old rings and bearings all measured within allowable specs for the new parts and really did not need to be replaced. Also, the old water pump was working fine, just replaced due to age and ease while engine was out.
After about 15,000 miles since the rebuild the engine runs perfect and uses about 1/2 qt of Mobil 1 10W30 between oil changes (every 6000 miles).
They are throwaway designs, and if I'm wrong, you can be the first to set me straight with a quote from Toyota on a Tundra V8 rebuild. Good luck...said it before, you aren't going to get one from Toyota. Been there on the Nissan, done that, got the t-shirt.
That's pure B.S. in your post about Toyota engines being a throwaway design. That Toyota block will still be using standard size rings and pistons when a GM engine would have been bored .060 over.
Regarding the quote from Toyota about the cost to rebuild a Tundra V8: Toyota probably hasn't determined the labor costs yet to rebuild the 4.7L V8 as it will probably be 10 years or more before they will have to tackle one.
Now that's pure B.S. in your post about Toyota blocks still using standard size rings and pistons when a GM engine would have been bored 0.060 over. If their steels are really that good, some of it should be used for those rusting panels Toyota is famous for.
I'm sure that you did an excellent job but you didn't rebuild the engine. What you did was overhaul the engine. (a.k.a. Ring and valve job.) A rebuild usually involves reboring, crank turning and other machine work. I hope that you did have the head surface ground before reinstalling it. Heads almost always warp when they are removed and they need to be trued up before reinstalling. If you didn't keep a close watch on radiator water. Look for water being eaten and/or an emulsion scum in the water. Sure signs of a head gasket problems. (Easy to check too.)
Somebody mentioned plastic valve guides. I think that Ford went through that fiasco in their Pick Up engines, maybe 20 years ago. I sort of recall that a neighbor finally had his replaced with metal at Ford's expense. Today I think that there are better plastics that would give better service in the valve guide application. Maybe the guides wear out due to infrequent oil changes? Ah, sorry about that! There's enough flames in another topic about oil changes.
Rich
I went driving early last Tuesday morning(about 5:00am) during the peak of the "blizzard". I had an absolute blast! Nothing but other 4wd "idiots" out at that time. Nothing like plowing your own lanes through the powder. Secondary roads are still extremely icy(I think it got down to 14 degrees last night). Weather geeks are calling for more snow this weekend(by the way, they also called for ONE inch of snow for this last one!). Might buy a snowmobile this evening. Gotta love this global warming.
Another Newton law for you:
Snow + morons = sheetmetal destruction
I was in Detroit/Toledo for the NAIAS and got the chance to renew my winter driving skills(?). Shortly thereafter I was back home in Los Angeles and rain. For those of you who don't understand the significance, Rain in LA is just like snow elsewhere. Then I noticed that the bad weather had moved to North Carolina.
The amazing thing about this bit of tripe is that it seems there is but a single group of morons that congregate in bad weather. First they were spinning, slipping and sliding in Detroit. Then they were causing mayhem and bent sheet metal in LA. And now, according to your report they have flocked to North Carolina.
Maybe we could get a government grant to research this social phenomenon. :-)
Rich
Yeah, I saw where Randolph(especially Asheboro south) got clobbered! The difference in snow depths between areas just a few miles apart is unbelievable. Looking forward to the next round this weekend? I'm not!
rrichf,
I think Clinton pushed for that grant money last night during his speech.....it was right before he whispered "I love you" to his wife.
Good luck in the rain.
A positive note about the weather, my Tundra monthly miles have sharply decreased.
Monday maybe three] Toyota Dealers in Central
Arkansas. The main problem seems to be an
incessant need to low ball on the trade and creep
upwards of 25% over invoice on the new.
Armed,(thru Edmunds),with the facts these
"professionals" seem to look at you as if you're
from Mars when you give them an honest offer. I
have remained consistent on my trade's appraisal
and offered a flat $500 over invoice. In each case
I have watched every dealership creep those
figures back up to 27K-29K while I stand there and
tell them I know the cost is just over 25K. One
"rocket scientist" even wrote his "bottom dollar"
on the actual invoice. When he showed me his
figure I saw that the invoice on it was $24,975.
He said he had to get $28,000 for it. I shook my
head and laughed and said "I hope you get it...but
it won't be from me".
If we all would do this we could bring these guys
back to reality.
I think that dishonesty in the service department is inversely proportional to the IQ of the service "Salesman" advisor.
Rich
So as dishonesty increases, IQ decreases. I agree with that.
But you would assume no connection to what they do on the sales floor, and what they do in the service department, even though both have same ownership?
From personal experience I can say that there is absolutely no connection between the service department management and the service floor AND they're in the same part of the dealership. Between the service department and sales; they're on two totally different planets!
Rich
If you were paying 15% too much for your parts, and/or labor, would you be aware of this?
I would LOVE to pay ONLY 15% more for parts at the local dealer. Those ******** are charging 150% more for oil filters, 350% more for fuel filters, a disposable air filter for the cost of a K & N! And that even includes shipping from Texas!
Rich
just submitted a order for a 2000 Tundra 4x4 TLD Access cab and yes, there is a remote keyless entry option...I ordered it.
Ah yes ordered, but will Toyota deliver?
Rich
it is unwieldy to manage, and difficult to use for "newbies." There is entirely TOO much topic duplication, so I will be doing some SERIOUS topic consolidation in the next few weeks, getting us down to not more than 2-3 topics per vehicle type, and ultimately down to 200 topics or less.
THIS weeks consolidation candidates are: Tundra's, Tacoma's and Rangers.
In that vein,please consolidate this Tundra topic to Welcome Toyota Tundra - V and continue these discussions there.
Thanks!
Front Porch Philosopher
SUV, Pickups, & Aftermarket and Accessories Host