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Steve, Host
If this creates one more too many discussions, you could rename the Chrysler Town and Country to include the Dodge Grand Caravan, as most of the new features are on the long wheel base versions.
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Share your vehicle reviews
1) Are side curtain airbags optional on all models? Standard on any?
2) Is stability control optional or standard on any model?
3) Are all versions 7-passenger, or are there 8 or 9 passenger version, too?
4) Do all seating positions have an adjustable head restraint?
5) Do all seating positions have shoulder belts?
6) How many seating positions have LATCH lower anchors for child seats?
7) Do the shoulder belts in any of the rear seats have height adjusters or guides?
Thanks!
Hi Caviller; haven't seen you around lately!
Steve, Host
Interior I like most the new Sienna, though.
I think you can safely drop your grudge against Chrysler, er DaimlerChrysler, dating back to 1970, but I can understand. I still have a grudge dating to 1983 against GM. Haven't really had the urge to go back to them because I have found what I wanted with Ford and Chrysler since then. Also, nothing from GM has been in my crosshairs from a design or functionality standpoint in their minivan or mid-size cars that we have been buying, and Corvette is not in the budget.
The '05 is a tough value proposition, when new '04 GC SXTs are selling for just above $20k, and pretty well equipped SEs (incl. quad seats) for just over $18k. I am now wondering if the improvements are worth the extra money to me.
The main reason Chrysler emphasized making the redesign quiet is that with those big seat storage wells sticking down from the floor, it is very difficult to keep them from picking up road and other exterior noise and transmitting it to the cabin like a drum head. (Honda Odyssey is less quiet than it could be because of this) This was one reason Chrysler decided not to implement a stowable third seat during their last redesign- difficulty making the van quiet enough.
So they emphasized solving the noise problem, and apparently exceeded their target. That's something engineers would love to be able to do all the time, just doesn't always happen within cost/competitive restraints of mass market price sensitive products.
I must say that during my review of this product (05 stow and go) I was concerned about potential long-term rattling from the covers over the 2nd row seat wells. All things being equal - added parts usually adds risk for noise, particularly for large covers like those on the wells.
Folding the second row seats away seems like a neat feature, but I think it will rarely be used by the average minivan buyer with a pile of kids to cart around, particularly if that owner has a pickup or utility trailer in the driveway. Tucking/removing the 3rd row seat is another matter - something I believe occurs often. Would have been a neat option to sell the average van with the folding 3rd row (real need) and offer the folding second row as an option.
Loss of toe room as noted above is very real in 05 T&C to accommodate the folding second row seat. Still better than the Freestar for 3rd row legroom (abysmal 32.7 inches), but worse than Nissan/Sienna/Odyssey. For the record, the legrooms front to back go as follows:
Freestar 40.7/38.0/32.7 (toes can slip under 2nd)
Sienna 42.9/39.6/39.5 (toes can slip under 2nd)
Nissan 41.6/41.2/41.1 (toes can pass 2nd row flap)
Honda 41.0/40.0/38.1 (toes can slip under 2nd)
Nissan seemed roomiest across the board for legroom.
Chrysler book didn't have numbers in brochure so I don't know how they measure quantitatively, but you have to take in account legroom probably doesn't pick up the toes slipping under the second row - maybe someone out there (Host?) knows for sure how the measurement is made that is reported to consumer.
Honda had best headroom in 3rd row - about 3/4" to 1" more than Ford/Nissan/Sienna. Probably a result of the "boxy" Ody vs more rounded competitors.
Chrysler will sell lots of vans, but my personal vote went Odyssey when I had to lay the money on the table.
I thought the seats were quite comfortable, despite their rather thin padding (must be the NASA-developed dense foam). I liked the high front seat edge on the back seat. Most bench seats are too flat for my taste. The rear seat would be comfortable for two adults or three small kids; I'd hate to sit with two adults back there. The main problem in the middle row has already been mentioned--lack of toe space. I am 5' 9-1/2", 32" inseam, and could get barely enough toe room for my left foot by pushing the seat all the way back. But that limits foot room in the back seat. I wonder if it would be a problem in vans w/o power front seats?
Other than the seats, and front fascia, the vans looked just like '04s. Which is the rub. Right now there's about a $5000 premium for a '05 with Stow and Go over a comparable '04 (w/o the Stow and Go seats of course). If it were me, I'd take the $5000 and the split rear seat on the '04s.
Both my wife and I noticed how you could feel the cupholders as you entered the 2nd row captains chairs. She is only 5'2'' and 120lbs and said she felt uncomfortable in the seats, said she could fell the seat frame or cupholder assembly. I am 6'4'' and 240 lbs and I noticed the same things, also didn't like the fact that the headrest was sticking into the middle of my back when I first sat down, had to raise the rather small headrest up a long way to protect my head, seemed like my shoulders were above the top of the seat and exposed, felt weird. The seats seemed very odd looking, the back was flat and felt strange and uncomfortable, the 2004 seat backs are much taller and they cradle the body as they are curved, just feel more natural.
The Stow n Go seats fold into the floor, easy quick and neat, but how many times do you need to do that? some may need it often but many people won't just depends on ones usage habits. To us we did not want to have to every day endure what we felt were uncomfortable seats for the ease of the Stow n Go option that we would only expect to use once in a blue moon. We have a family of four and will use the 2nd row seats almost every day, yet we would only very very rarely need to use the full cargo storage space.
After we looked at the 2005 we decided to buy the 2004 while they were available and were discounted. We were offered almost $12,000 in discounts on a 2004 T&C van priced at almost $36,000, we felt that was fair although we would have held off buying had we not been disappointed in the 2005 seats.
Definitely a good time to buy unlike any minivan as competition is fierce. Incredibly loaded T&C for $24,000 is unbelievable value that will never be seen again. All manufacturers are facing heavily reduced profits as base raw materials like steel, aluminum, nickel (anything stainless steel), and copper are nearing record prices. For the imports, the pressure is even worse as they must contend with Yen and Euro that has increase 30 to 35% in just 3 years. Time to buy.
Have fun in your new van!
(Not me specifically <g>)
Steve, Host
Canadian MSRP figures are also available from dealers if you ask for them.
Nice work, Backy!
Steve, Host
http://www.chrysler.com/town_country/
http://www.dodge.com/caravan/
-- Mark
I assume the "trade in bonus" is just another word for rebate and you get that whether you trade a car in or not?
Looks like DC is going to be very competitive on price and features. At least I won't have to read the endless rants about the glorious stowable third row seats in Siennodysseys now that DC stows both rows.
Um, no, I wouldn't assume that if I were you. But I could see someone going out and buying an old clunker for $100 just to trade it in. ;-)
IMO I prefer the grille of the '01-'04 models, with the logo on the center of the grille. It's more rich looking and feels bolder.
It was time to change something about the front, for better or worse!
If you rarely take the 3rd seat out anyway - you cannot beat the unbelievable deals on the 2004 Town and Country being closed out. Saw ads in Chicago as low as $18,500 for the SE with quite a few options. 2004 Dodge Caravan SXT seem to be available for $21,000 or less. They are going fast. 2005 Chrysler brings little to the table beyond the folding second row seat that does not already exist in Sienna/Quest/Odyssey. Optional side curtain air bag is a plus, but was out there already standard in Quest and optional on Sienna. If you can wait until fall - 2005 Odyssey hits show rooms circa October, which will improve pricing on 2005 Chrysler products as well as the Sienna, plus possibility of close outs on decent 2004 Odyssey.
I noticed they eliminated the sun visor extender, and variable illumination for the visor mirror. Just one lamp (instead of 2 in the old models). Maybe it was just a lower-end model.
They still does NOT have the wiper de-icer feature back.
The seats are not this bad, but everything is very small, the padding and very thin armrests (second row).
I also couldn't find the rear wiper switch, they definitely changed location for that switch somewhere else.
Outside mirrors are still very small, actually the smallest of any minivan, and also have a great blind spot. Most minivans' mirrors are much closer to the door, so no huge blind spot.
The lower model I've seen (LX I think) has a redesigned instrument panel (gauges), the info panel is gone (FINALLY!) and it seems nicer than the older LX models.
Most people do not adjust their outside mirrors properly as they set it up to be able to see the back sides of their own vehicle, thus leaving a large blind spot. We have a '96 Caravan and a 2000 Taurus, neither of which have pariticularly large mirrors, but adjusted properly you can completely eliminate your blind spot with both vehicles.
The overhead rail system was nicely done, as was the freshened dash. I've always liked the current Town & Country's dashboard, and now it's even better with new gauges and the new sycamore/satin-silver trim. In my opinion, it looks classier than the Toyota Sienna XLE Limited's dash.
Overall, I think Chrysler's investments in the Town & Country and Caravan were money well spent. The 2005 models position Chrysler at or near the top of the minivan competition.
-- Mark